Author Topic: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN  (Read 4713 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HardcoreRetro

  • Punk Mushi no Onna
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2023, 04:30:25 AM »
Honestly, if the game is that button mashy for you it sounds like you either got those "game journalist" items equipped. Or you are barely using the full extent of your abilities.

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2023, 10:51:03 AM »
Honestly, if the game is that button mashy for you it sounds like you either got those "game journalist" items equipped. Or you are barely using the full extent of your abilities.

To be fair, early on when you only have Ifrit there's not much alternative. Not that there's a great need in combat for anything except timely dodges and "button-mashing" for the majority of mobs even without the 'crutch' medallions. This goes back to my complaint about pacing. In XII one of the first things you do is go on a Hunt. In XVI Hunts don't unlock until you're pretty far along in the story. There's an annoying 'drip drip drip' of features that even when unlocked don't start out fully fleshed. It's why I recommended Bepbo grin and bear it 'til the Typhon fight and then decide.
pie

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2023, 12:50:48 PM »
Honestly, the Typhoon fight is where it started to click.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2023, 02:34:35 PM »
Honestly, if the game is that button mashy for you it sounds like you either got those "game journalist" items equipped. Or you are barely using the full extent of your abilities.

By mashy I mean the enemies just sit there and it's brainless.

I phoenix dash in, do a hold [] jump launcher, slash x 3 double jump slash x 3 double jump, slash x 3, []+[x crash down to triangle (usually enemy is dead by now), holding [] or triangle while doing the last part and then do a burning slash or magic shot at the next enemy and either phoenix dash to them or jump at them and garuda grab and air juggle, etc...also weaving in Torgal attacks between attacks.

technically that's not mashing because I'm doing technical things, but compared to DMC or Bayo it feels brainless to me because the enemies just sit there.

Even the larger enemies, I'm basically doing the same combos and stuff only with keeping an eye on them and R1 evading at the last second whenever they do their moves (btw the evade timings in this are weird and a lot earlier than most games). I don't even understand the parry mechanic. It says just slash them right when the attack is about to hit you but I do that and just eat it, meanwhile I've activated parry on a pheonix dash at the initial dash part which isn't an attack wat. So I just evade and counter and don't mess with the parry at this point.

On larger enemies I also pop all my R2 cooldowns when I can because normal combos take forever to stagger them. Unfortunately this usually means when they do stagger it's while 3/4ths of my R2 attacks are in cooldown which isn't great for damage but oh well. Also mashing on a staggered enemies sitting there doing combos is boring. Feels like no matter if I do some fancy combo or just mash slash slash slash until cooldowns pop it does the same damage when they're staggered.

Also at this point in the game the enemies don't even seem to have attributes in terms of weaknesses/strengths. Like the combat would have a bit more variety/edge to it if these enemies were weak to fire and these enemies were weak to wind, and these enemies were weak to physical and these enemies were strong against physical and weak against magic. That would cause me to use a different approach on each enemy set which at least would add variety. But so far there is nothing to differentiate the enemies that just stand there.

Plus if you pop your cooldowns on grunts you can basically just one-shot them and end the battle in 5 seconds. And your cooldowns are recharged by the next grunt battle.


If I was making the game, here's what the game could use to make it 10x better in combat (maybe some of this will unlock as the game progresses):

-Style meter with XP/Gold/Ability points/drop reward chance increasing based on your style rank at the end of each battle

-Enemies with actual fucking stats and a Libra-type ability to check them, strengths and weaknesses, maybe even go the extra mile and have different body parts take more damage like Monster Hunter. I guess the Adamantoise enemy sorta does this since only the head takes real damage and the rest of the shell bounces off weapons, but I'd like to see this on every enemy and shown in a libra-like breakdown.

-I'd also like to see MonHun style drops based on breaking horns or claws before you kill the enemy.

-A better goddamn camera. This camera really sucks when big enemies can come swinging in from off-screen and do huge damage. I would not want to do Smough and Ornstein in this game.

-A hard mode available from the start. And don't do a bullshit hard mode where you just pad HPs because the big enemies/bosses have enough HP already. Keep the HP the same, but bump the aggressiveness of every enemy in the game so that you can't just wail on mannequins but actually have to keep moving and dodging and weaving in attacks between. From small grunts to bosses. Right now boss fights feel like an MMO where every 10 seconds there is a boss attack that you dodge and between that you just wail on them with whatever combo you want over and over. Really should be more of a dance of moving and dodging and attacking constantly.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2023, 02:37:29 PM »
Also outside of battle, I would add fishing. FF games really lack the fishing mini-game.

Except FF15. It got a whole VR game dedicated to it! Maybe that's another reason why I enjoy the gameplay of 15.

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2023, 01:37:50 PM »
Also outside of battle, I would add fishing. FF games really lack the fishing mini-game.

Except FF15. It got a whole VR game dedicated to it! Maybe that's another reason why I enjoy the gameplay of 15.

Hey now, XII had fishing too! Ok, it was more of a rhythmn game but dammit they called it fishing and you were on a riverbank and...and...

Back on topic. Some of the design choices are pretty disappointing. Yiazmat fight in XII was long as hell but entirely optional. Forcing me to endure some multi-phasic battle which doesn't particularly challenge my dexterity or wits in order to continue the game is just tedious. I have five aspects now and I'm dreading my next showdown with a Dominant :/
pie

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2023, 11:54:22 AM »
I will say I never want another walk and talk and fight and cutscene game again. Especially not an FF.
FF13 is my least favorite in the series because itís so boring gameplay-wise. People say FF10 is like that too but I havenít played it in 20 years so I donít remember how itís executed there.
So far this is running a close second and a big step down from FF15 in gameplay for me. When they donít even give you a mini-map because the whole area is just a corridorÖ

Story is solid, graphics outside frame rate are great, music excellent but itís a total snore to play outside boss fights early on.

Would have rather Yoshi-P just made an offline MMO with nice graphics and a good story.

FFXIII is just a straight trek outside of Gran Pulse. It hinges itself on battle system but that's all it has going for it: battles. No dungeon design, just holding up, and cutscenes.

FFX is far better. For one, the story is better. Two, there's actual interactivity. FFXIII doesn't even have the luxury of having NPCs or towns to explore. There's no start -> stop -> start, hot -> cold -> hot, town -> dungeon -> town RPG loop in XIII in the way that even FFX has despite its linearity. The result is just a boring game with a good battle system, nice graphics, and a cringe and poorly executed story.

This is without mentioning that FFX, especially FFX International, has actual choices within its game design, particularly in the sphere grid and ability system. FFXIII restricts each character to a specific grid until 20 hours in.

Anyone that compared FFX with XIII is delusional.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 12:03:49 PM by Himu »
FUNK

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2023, 12:02:41 PM »
So this game is legit pretty bad. They really fucked up a mainline FF...again

It's crazy how the side games keep getting it right like FF7 Remake, World of FF, Stranger of Paradise. They find a good design that balances gameplay and story and they run with it. Yet, the mainline FF games just keep fucking up hard. All I can think is that the mainline games have too many cooks in the kitchen problem of every producer/creative at SE wanting it to go one way or another, whereas the side games they're more hands off.

Like for FF16:

Ditch the turn-based combat into all action? Ok, that's fine.
Ditch the world exploration, dungeons, rpg systems for action stages? Ok, that's fine
Make spectacular QTE fights like Asura's Wrath? Ok, sure.

But like instead of just copying Devil May Cry/Asura's Wrath and making a pure Platinum stage-based action game with cutscenes between, it feels like they're still trying to be like 20% a jrpg and that just pulls it in different directions.

Like if this was just a DMC/Bayonetta-clone, you'd have a style meter, you'd have different rewards at the end of each battle based on your performance. You'd replay stages in arcade mode to get rewards for getting higher scores. All of this would motivate mixing up the combat and replaying the stages. But for whatever reason they fuck it up? There's a style meter, but it's only in arcade mode, and it doesn't reward anything for the main campaign.

If it was a DMC/Bayonetta clone, the combat should flow better, easier to launch, easier to move around, less weighty, especially for the enemies. It should be more fun, less mashy.

The combat feels like it's trying to be Dragon's Dogma and be more an arpg combat, while also trying to be a stage based action game, while also trying to be an FFXIII walk and talk cutscene story. It just doesn't really work. They should have focused on ripping off a single genre and executed that really well with a good story/music/gfx. Either make a pure action game, or make a dragon's dogma kind of game, or make an rpg. Idk, but they need to pick one.

The game just feels really unsatisfying to play. Might as well just watch all the cutscenes as an interactive movie. FFXIII was like this too.

I really never expected that out of the FF13/15/16 trio of modern AAA FF mainlines, that FF15, as a bastardized unfinished game made in 18 months by a PSP team, would turn out of the best of the three by far. When I was playing FF15 and driving around and riding chocobos and doing FFXII style hunts and eating foods and hanging with the bros and discovering mysteries in the desert I was having way more fun than I am walking down another corridor with grumpy Clive to another fight with the same group of enemies over and over. Also as much as FF16 has a great score, so did FF15 with Shimomura putting in the work.

I'll stick with FF16 for the story/music/gfx and see it through. But considering FF14 and Heavensward were very good, this is an incredibly disappointing game from this staff. Especially the staff being like Matsuno's proteges. Vagrant Story, TO/FFT, FFXII were pretty technical gameplay games that had interesting mechanics along with their stories. The game aspect of FF16 is kind of pathetic coming from this team. I had no idea that Yoshi-P who made zone and gameplay-based FF14's deep desire was to make interactive movies.

Feels like about a 7/10 so far. No idea how FF16 reviewed so well. Maybe the story will be worth it in the end. But I just can't see this being anything beyond the 2nd worst mainline FF of all time (with FF13 being the worst).

Strangers of Paradise hilariously is a much better FF than this. Should've just called that one FF16 and tightened up the visuals and called it a day. At least that one had good gameplay and the story was decent as well.


This and Zelda were the two big 2023 games for me. Zelda was amazing and better than I expected by far. While this is worse :( I guess 1 for 2 is better than both games being a disappointment. Yeah I'm also interested in Spider-Man 2, but it's Insomniac, so I'm sure it'll just be more of the same from the last two ones, which is fine but nothing interesting or special.

I guess next game that has a chance to wow me will be FF7r Rebirth. As long as they don't tinker with the combat/stage flow that much for the worse, it should be good. What I would have given to have a new original story FF game in the style of FF7r :\

It wants to be an RPG but doesn't have the depth of an RPG. RPGs are 40 + hour games. DMC games can be beaten in 10-12 hours. High paced action and thrills can last for so long. At the end of the day, the only resolve is to make it a 20 hour long game but FF doesn't want to fully abandon its RPG roots either. Maybe turning an RPG series into an action game is a bad idea? Hmm. Better to play the real thing, maybe? The more it leans into DMC the more you expect DMC rather than Final Fantasy and you're docking points that Final Fantasy wants to...be more of an RPG? Okay.

Like I said: franchise without a vision.

Honestly, if the game is that button mashy for you it sounds like you either got those "game journalist" items equipped. Or you are barely using the full extent of your abilities.

By mashy I mean the enemies just sit there and it's brainless.

Sounds like DMC then. DMC enemies aren't that aggressive. DMC is a more offense oriented game all about combos and looking cool. It's not Ninja Gaiden.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 12:14:01 PM by Himu »
FUNK

Coax

  • Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2023, 12:20:37 PM »

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2023, 12:28:05 PM »
Thanks.
FUNK

remy

  • my hog is small but it is mighty
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2023, 06:39:51 PM »
IDK I see a lot of negativity about this game but I really like it  :doge

Even though I can scoop like 6 imperial knights at once and kill them in 30 seconds in feels fun  :doge

Clive is a great protagonist and the setting is pretty interesting. As it goes on I feel it gaining steam too.

If I had a whine it's that it can be a little too stop start especially with side quests. The menus where the game freezes and says "ENEMY DEFEATED!" and presents the random crafting items takes too long esp when some of the fights against fodder take about 10 seconds lol. Doing things like hunts later in the game once it gets started is much better flow wise because you get a decent battle before you sit at the results screen.

I also think the combat is repetitive complaints might have been alleviated by exposing the somewhat hidden style system they've built in, there's a lot of shit you go do between the dog, skills, and Clive's own actions but from what I can tell a lot of people are not engaging with it at all. The little shit that pops up on the side is okay but then maybe a style bar filling up at the same time would be a nice "yeah buddy! you're doing it!" and encourage people to not be repetitive, but then I guess people would complain about being graded and not being able to "play the way they like" in an RPG.

I saw people elsewhere suggesting that the combat would be improved by "elemental weaknesses" as if match the color gameplay would somehow make this game more interesting and not more annoying. I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the eikons are, they're like DMC styles, not actual different elements. And turning it into a lock and key game design in a system like this would not make it better. we got enough of that in DmC

I would agree that the fodder fights are fairly braindead but the bosses and bigger enemies are great. The MMO esque boss mechanics with them casting FF type skills on you is really cool IMO.  The game also seems to be ratcheting up in complexity after every main boss/chapter as Clive unlocks more shit to use. People are talking about it like it's DMC lite or something but it really isn't lite. Clive is basically a dmc6 Nero with a pet/puppet assist.

 I'm reserving judgement until I beat the game, which will take awhile as I am hella SF6 brained at the moment but I'm positive on it.

Quote
I don't even understand the parry mechanic. It says just slash them right when the attack is about to hit you but I do that and just eat it, meanwhile I've activated parry on a pheonix dash at the initial dash part which isn't an attack wat. So I just evade and counter and don't mess with the parry at this point.
It's activated like the DMC parry almost exactly. You just have to have one of your own attacks hit right as their attack would hit you. It's slightly easier if you use attacks with longer active frames/bigger hitboxes like the lunge. It's like a clash in guilty gear.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 07:32:07 PM by remy »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2023, 08:03:46 PM »
I got Ifrit and yeah...at this point I like the game outside the "action" stages. The action stages are just too stop/start for me and boring. That Fallen Ruins thing was literally just arena -> hallway -> arena -> hallway -> cutscene -> hallway -> cutscene -> arena.... and puts me to sleep.

Walking around the zones though and talking to NPCs and doing quests is cool though. I still wish the towns had more interactivity though.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2023, 08:07:11 PM »
Quote
I don't even understand the parry mechanic. It says just slash them right when the attack is about to hit you but I do that and just eat it, meanwhile I've activated parry on a pheonix dash at the initial dash part which isn't an attack wat. So I just evade and counter and don't mess with the parry at this point.
It's activated like the DMC parry almost exactly. You just have to have one of your own attacks hit right as their attack would hit you. It's slightly easier if you use attacks with longer active frames/bigger hitboxes like the lunge. It's like a clash in guilty gear.

Isn't parry in DMC a royal guard button? You just wait until the attack is about to hit and then hit O or whatever. I haven't parried much in DMC since DMC3 though.

Hmm, I'll have to practice with it. Even with really big easy to see slashes from bosses I try hitting slash to slash into their approaching slash and nothing happens and I eat it. Then again if it's anything like the dodge timings for attacks, the timing for what frame to do it in is probably weird and unintuitive. The dodge timing is ridiculously early in this game. Feels wrong to me.

remy

  • my hog is small but it is mighty
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2023, 08:19:40 PM »
Quote
I don't even understand the parry mechanic. It says just slash them right when the attack is about to hit you but I do that and just eat it, meanwhile I've activated parry on a pheonix dash at the initial dash part which isn't an attack wat. So I just evade and counter and don't mess with the parry at this point.
It's activated like the DMC parry almost exactly. You just have to have one of your own attacks hit right as their attack would hit you. It's slightly easier if you use attacks with longer active frames/bigger hitboxes like the lunge. It's like a clash in guilty gear.

Isn't parry in DMC a royal guard button? You just wait until the attack is about to hit and then hit O or whatever. I haven't parried much in DMC since DMC3 though.
Royal Guard is the meme parry due to the fact that most nerds crank their hog to DMC 4 Dante clips on YT but you've actually been able to parry with weapons since DMC 1. a more accurate way to explain it is you hit their attack with your attack and it will parry

here is a dry video demonstration


An example of this is the hell scissor guys, they're a pain in the ass normally but if you hit them mid swing you parry and can shoot them to instakill.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 08:33:33 PM by remy »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2023, 08:30:31 PM »
Wow, never knew that and I enjoy my DMC.

remy

  • my hog is small but it is mighty
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2023, 08:39:42 PM »
I think the other reason this game presents poorly is it basically has two long ass prologues before it takes the training wheels off

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2023, 10:36:18 PM »
I think the other reason this game presents poorly is it basically has two long ass prologues before it takes the training wheels off

Pacing is my biggest gripe with the game. I'm apparently 4/5 of the way through according to the little graphic on the dashboard and sidequests/hunts are where they should have been much earlier imo. I agree it's fun to find ways of burning through the trash. Opening with Aerial Blast then painting the helpless sods with Blind Justice is my current go to :D
pie

recursivelyenumerable

  • you might think that; I couldn't possibly comment
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2023, 01:47:55 AM »

Sounds like DMC then. DMC enemies aren't that aggressive. DMC is a more offense oriented game all about combos and looking cool. It's not Ninja Gaiden.

Didn't Itagaki even trash talk DMC about that at one point?
QED

remy

  • my hog is small but it is mighty
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2023, 03:29:26 AM »

Sounds like DMC then. DMC enemies aren't that aggressive. DMC is a more offense oriented game all about combos and looking cool. It's not Ninja Gaiden.

Didn't Itagaki even trash talk DMC about that at one point?

It was about Dynasty Warriors, actually:
Quote
1UP: What do you think of the Dynasty Warriors series?

TI: As a real man, I find no feeling of achievement in beating up millions of defenseless enemies. As for my opinion as a gamer, my free time is too valuable to spend it hacking away at an endless stream of dumb-as-a-brick opponents.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060111084258/http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=2&cId=3140456

In the same article he says he likes Prince Of Persia and DMC3. Don't ask me how I knew it  was this 1up article.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 07:10:01 AM by remy »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2023, 04:18:44 AM »
I think the other reason this game presents poorly is it basically has two long ass prologues before it takes the training wheels off

Am I still in the 2nd prologue

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2023, 05:45:13 AM »

Sounds like DMC then. DMC enemies aren't that aggressive. DMC is a more offense oriented game all about combos and looking cool. It's not Ninja Gaiden.

Didn't Itagaki even trash talk DMC about that at one point?

You can look at the video clip Remy provided. Enemies are just fucking sitting there unless they're bosses.

Quote
I don't even understand the parry mechanic. It says just slash them right when the attack is about to hit you but I do that and just eat it, meanwhile I've activated parry on a pheonix dash at the initial dash part which isn't an attack wat. So I just evade and counter and don't mess with the parry at this point.
It's activated like the DMC parry almost exactly. You just have to have one of your own attacks hit right as their attack would hit you. It's slightly easier if you use attacks with longer active frames/bigger hitboxes like the lunge. It's like a clash in guilty gear.

Isn't parry in DMC a royal guard button? You just wait until the attack is about to hit and then hit O or whatever. I haven't parried much in DMC since DMC3 though.
Royal Guard is the meme parry due to the fact that most nerds crank their hog to DMC 4 Dante clips on YT but you've actually been able to parry with weapons since DMC 1. a more accurate way to explain it is you hit their attack with your attack and it will parry

here is a dry video demonstration


An example of this is the hell scissor guys, they're a pain in the ass normally but if you hit them mid swing you parry and can shoot them to instakill.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 05:50:23 AM by Himu »
FUNK

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2023, 08:28:56 AM »
I think the other reason this game presents poorly is it basically has two long ass prologues before it takes the training wheels off

Am I still in the 2nd prologue

My guess is that Remy's two sections are 1) basically the demo and just beyond when you team up with a certain someone and 2) the stuff up to your acquisition of a third aspect
pie

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2023, 01:36:41 PM »
I think the other reason this game presents poorly is it basically has two long ass prologues before it takes the training wheels off

Am I still in the 2nd prologue

My guess is that Remy's two sections are 1) basically the demo and just beyond when you team up with a certain someone and 2) the stuff up to your acquisition of a third aspect

Ok, yeah I haven't played since I got the 3rd aspect. Hopefully will pick up now.

Let's Cyber

  • Banned (duration pending)
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2023, 02:24:18 PM »
This game is fantastic.

Game picked up for me after getting Garuda powers w/ Nero's Snatch  :whew

Linearity doesn't bother me a bit and it's actually a nice change of pace coming off TotK.

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2023, 04:37:48 PM »
The Eikon fights are so dumb, I love them.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Beat Bahamut last night.
[close]

So far my favorite abilities are Titan's charge attacks. Clive Smash!
©@©ô

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #85 on: July 01, 2023, 04:17:35 AM »
Got past Typhon. Idk, story was never the issue. Will see if the gameplay gets any better.

I wish there was an easy mode that cut all enemy/boss HPs in half. Game would be so much better. Bosses take fucking forever. Not hard, just tiring.

Let's Cyber

  • Banned (duration pending)
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #86 on: July 01, 2023, 08:10:57 AM »
Ironic that CC2 split from FF7R mid-development but Square just ripped off their gameplay for the Eikon fights in FFXVI.  :lol

It's like Ultimate Ninja Storm Biju battles, Asura's Wrath Quick Time event cutscenes, DMC4 gameplay with Game of Thrones inspired story in a Final Fantasy wrapper. It's weird but it works.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #87 on: July 01, 2023, 10:16:16 AM »
CC2?
FUNK

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #88 on: July 01, 2023, 11:37:33 AM »
Got past Typhon. Idk, story was never the issue. Will see if the gameplay gets any better.

I wish there was an easy mode that cut all enemy/boss HPs in half. Game would be so much better. Bosses take fucking forever. Not hard, just tiring.

Bebpo on suicide watch for the next two Eikon battles. If they were something I was watching on Cruchyroll I'd probably give a thumbs-up but...I REALLY wish there was a fast forward button for those fights. That being said I have a sixth aspect now and the game is where it should have been a long time ago. Good Hunts, a slew of sidequests many of which are engaging and some of which are meaningful and impactful. I doubt you'll change your mind on combat but there might be enough in other areas to keep your interest
pie

Let's Cyber

  • Banned (duration pending)
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2023, 12:21:19 PM »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2023, 02:33:37 PM »
Got past Typhon. Idk, story was never the issue. Will see if the gameplay gets any better.

I wish there was an easy mode that cut all enemy/boss HPs in half. Game would be so much better. Bosses take fucking forever. Not hard, just tiring.

Bebpo on suicide watch for the next two Eikon battles.

See, I don't even mind the Eikon battles because they are flashy Asura Wrath stuff.

But like normal bosses with huge health pools are so boring. The Akashic Dragon boss felt like it took forever and after all the fights and mid-bosses in the stage before it I was just over it by midway through that fight.

I think the bosses/mid-bosses just have too much HP. Every time you get more damage abilities the enemies get more HP so it never feels like you're getting stronger. If there was a way to grind rpg-style and be overpowered so you could blow through these fights I would totally do that.

Also I realized the game really is just the FF14 team making the game like FF14 structure, but it doesn't necessarily transition solo and with action combat. Like you have the field zones with towns and quests and then the action stages are just FF14 dungeons. FF14 dungeons you just go down a straight line in Call of Duty style scripted stages with grunts -> midboss -> grunts -> midboss -> grunts -> stage boss. But the difference is the stage bosses in FF14 dungeons are shorter (these ones are closer to raid bosses in FF14 that take 8-10 mins) and FF14 dungeons in ARR days were like 45 mins long, but now they're like 15-20 mins long and that's made the pace so much better. These are more like the old ARR dungeons.

So basically, shorter stages, and stage bosses with less HP would greatly improve the action stages imo.

I do like the MMO style enemy/boss attacks. That's fun. Though the patterns are all very simple so far.

Typhon seemed kind of lame tbh, was expecting something that looked more like its FF character. Also doesn't FF Typhon use WIND?



spoiler (click to show/hide)
why the fuck was Typhon Lightning based
[close]

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2023, 03:12:42 PM »
This game rules. So glad I can finally enjoy a game and not an empty uncreative shitfest like Zelda. Glad that Final Fantasy can still be enjoyable
fat

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #92 on: July 01, 2023, 06:51:08 PM »
At least once you have three Eikons there starts to be at least a very slight amount of strategy in which abilities to use in which order with which accessories. Combat feels a bit more interesting than when you just had two Eikons.

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #93 on: July 01, 2023, 07:24:14 PM »
At least once you have three Eikons there starts to be at least a very slight amount of strategy in which abilities to use in which order with which accessories. Combat feels a bit more interesting than when you just had two Eikons.

Spend some time in the Hall. Respec is free which is fantastic so you can try various synergies
pie

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2023, 03:52:26 PM »
Did the Garuda fight holy fuck this game is so sick. So glad this game exists and doesnt waste my time like Zelda
fat

tiesto

  • ルカルカ★ナイトフィーバー
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2023, 05:19:54 PM »
Just beat
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Typhon, and got to the new HQ
[close]

Holy shit that fight was awesome. Liking this game quite a bit, probably the best FF since 10 so far.
^_^

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2023, 05:57:14 PM »
Game is a bit better after Typhon, but still just a decent 8/10. I don't hate it, but I could take it or leave it. Honestly I need more gameplay in my "videogames" than this provides.
Unless it changes dramatically, probably will be the 2nd worst FF for me after FFXIII. Can't see this being better than FF1-10, 14, or even 12/15.

Definitely feel like mainline FFs are a lost cause at this point. Not gonna look forward to them much anymore. At least series like DQ are still putting out bangers like XI. Like I have a million issues with the story/pacing in the modern Trails of series, but gameplay-wise it smokes FF16 and gives me more of what I want from an rpg.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #97 on: July 03, 2023, 12:19:39 AM »
So uh, what's the downside of titan parry? It's like if you just defend you counter, but if you hit it too early you just...block and don't take damage? Seems pretty risk free.
I wish training mode said how much total damage attacks did instead of just battle performance. Hard to tell which moves are stronger.

I feel like the combat would be stronger if you had different base weapons besides the special attacks. Or let you play as Jill or other characters for different movesets.

MMaRsu

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #98 on: July 03, 2023, 04:35:51 AM »
This game rules. So glad I can finally enjoy a game and not an empty uncreative shitfest like Zelda. Glad that Final Fantasy can still be enjoyable

 :lol :lol :lol :lol

Yea this game is super creative lmaooooo
What

Beezy

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #99 on: July 03, 2023, 11:19:27 AM »
Did the Garuda fight holy fuck this game is so sick.
Got to this point last night also. I'm loving the boss and miniboss fights so far.

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #100 on: July 03, 2023, 07:50:27 PM »
Beat the game, time to put my PS5 back in the closet until FF7-2 comes out.
©@©ô

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #101 on: July 04, 2023, 02:50:21 AM »
Alright, I'll stop being a grump and say this is a good action game. More of an action game like original three God of Wars than a character action game.

I think if it hadn't been called "16" and was an action game spin-off like how Stranger of Paradise is a souls game spinoff, it'd be a better game than I would have expected coming from FF's shoddy history of action games and I'd be very positive on it.

As an rpg it's ok. It reminds me of FF10 a lot, especially the way the towns are. Except without the party members and a less good story (FF16's story is...barebones so far, not really expecting more than that. FF has had storytelling issues since XII).

The storytelling itself feels more like the story in an action game than your usual rpg storytelling. Hard to describe, but mostly just action movie chases and big flash events and missing the usual low key moments of party bonding on a journey in an rpg. Like even 15 had a lot of bros hanging around a campfire chilling and having some fun times together. If the storytelling and character development was more like an rpg I'd probably be more into it. As it is it's closer to Asura's Wrath Thrones.

But yeah, I like it at this point. It's a good action game. Not really the direction I'd like to see the mainline series go and prefer if the franchise goes in the open world sandbox concept of FF15 or something like Xenoblade direction in the future, but I guess I can live with FF being god of war action games with light rpg elements if that's what they want to stick with. But maybe next time an actual party.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 03:08:40 AM by Bebpo »

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #102 on: July 04, 2023, 07:16:29 AM »
You said you were fine with FF being an action game. Make up your mind. If you make an action game you will get all that comes from an action game. This means the storytelling of an action game, the lore of an action game, the emphasis on playing one character. This is not an action RPG. It's an action game with RPG elements. what are you expecting? This game sold 300k in Japan first week. Worst debut for FF in Japan ever. This was tailor made for western audiences that do not like Jrpgs. In an interview YoshiP flat out says that the word Jrpg became poison because of western gaming journalists. You said you were fine with FF having this kind of combat - combat literally made by DEVIL MAY CRY'S combat designer - but now you're not. I do not understand. I can look at that sentence, shudder, and say with certainty that I have zero interest in such a product from a MAINLINE FINAL FANTASY so I refused to buy or support this game on principle. Yet you're not realizing these issues. Help me understand, Bebpo. This is their new direction. It is called FFXVI. You must accept this.

Honestly, having one character isn't even bad. There's so many great jrpgs with one character: DQ1, Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, Ys, Xanadu, Faxanadu, Brave Fencer Musashi and yet these all retain their RPG features.

The problem first and foremost is that FFXVI is not an RPG. That's something you must accept.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 07:43:37 AM by Himu »
FUNK

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #103 on: July 04, 2023, 01:02:06 PM »
I'm ok with the combat being action. I expected the rest to be more rpg-ish like yeah, say Nier.

Also given the combat designer was from DMC, I expected the combat to be more DMC/Bayo/GoW Ragnorak, but it's a lot closer to GoW1-3/Dante's Inferno in that it's mostly just basic  low damage attacking while popping cooldowns instead of having your full kit  at all times to mix and match with. Ragnorak has cooldowns, but I think it works better because the cooldowns are very short and you have a huge arsenal of very strong damage moves even without the cooldowns. Also want to note that GoW 2018 isn't GoW Ragnorak in combat if you haven't played Ragnorak. 2018 was an unoptimized character action game. It had the pieces but they didn't flow and it wasn't Japan-tier character action. Ragnorak was basically taking that combat but making it work and bringing it to the level of a Japan-tier character action game. Personally I find Ragnorak's combat much more satisfying than FF16 (hell the encounter design is better than Bayo3's combat).

Anyhow, FF16 is fine as a big dumb flashy PS2/PS3-ish action game. Just saying game should've been a spin-off imo like Strangers of Paradise was.

Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #104 on: July 04, 2023, 03:01:25 PM »
Funny how this and TOTK are huge releases for their franchises.. Yet some people love the change in formulas, others don't.  It is what it is. 

FFXVI had grabbed me by the balls and hasn't let go.. All the while, TOTK has been the biggest chore to play with insulting rewards for time and effort put it.  It's not a traditional Zelda anymore than this  not being a traditional FF.  However, This has been the more fun and rewarding $70 game by far. 

MMaRsu

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #105 on: July 05, 2023, 04:36:24 AM »
I think FF16 looks really cool, albeit a bit boring in some parts. Stuff like the world, side characters and quests are def mediocre.

Aside from that, the boss fights are amazing. The music is so good. Too bad I had to watch my friend play through it, instead of playing myself but I dont think im getting a PS5 anytime soon.
What

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #106 on: July 07, 2023, 01:26:09 AM »
Did the Titan fight.

Was big and dumb.

Great game  :clap

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #107 on: July 07, 2023, 01:49:43 AM »
Also, every time Ifrit shows up in this it cracks me up how you can tell they based his 3d model design off...the Gozer dogs in Ghostbusters. You're basically playing as a big fire doggo  :doge

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #108 on: July 07, 2023, 02:30:06 AM »
So yeah, I can pinpoint the exact moment when FF16 clicked for me.

spoiler (click to show/hide)


at 23:52 in the final phase transition when the music kicks in and Titan tears open the tunnel and does stone throw at you.

Best 30 seconds of the entire game so far.
[close]

This fight made me wish the game was more like Strangers of Paradise/Asura's Wrath channeling epic stupid 100% of the time, instead of trying to be a more serious GoT thing for most of it and then just occasionally switching over to epic stupid. I like big dumb stupid FF16.

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #109 on: July 07, 2023, 07:46:31 PM »
Finished and playing through again. I've a feeling you're going to love Final Fantasy mode in NG+ Bebpo
pie

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #110 on: July 08, 2023, 12:09:03 AM »
What is Final Fantasy mode?
FUNK

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #111 on: July 08, 2023, 12:43:56 AM »
What is Final Fantasy mode?

Hard Mode that you unlock for beating the game.
©@©ô

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #112 on: July 08, 2023, 02:13:31 AM »
Its just ng+ mode where enemies are scaled higher and theres no qte prompts.
fat

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #113 on: July 08, 2023, 09:42:47 AM »
Having all your earned combat skills carry over and available at the start of NG+ is the best feature, at least for me. They also change up the beastiary a bit; I fought a Chimera on the way to Lostwing for instance 
pie

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #114 on: July 08, 2023, 10:27:35 AM »
I think one of the issues with the combat design (of which there are many, just goes to show DMCV's battle designer wasn't the main brains behind DMCV's combat), is the enemies have like zero hit-stun reaction to hits. It really makes the registering of hits feel less satisfying and more an rpg grinding numbers game.

I went back to look at FFXV's cinematic boss fights to compare them to the Titan fight in FFXVI and that was what stuck out the most to me. FFXV's enemies actually hit stun react to each slash. Dunno why they didn't do that for FFXVI. Mid-sized enemies/bosses are even worse since you can't juggle them and it's just like hitting a wall until they stagger.

Having all your earned combat skills carry over and available at the start of NG+ is the best feature, at least for me. They also change up the beastiary a bit; I fought a Chimera on the way to Lostwing for instance

Hmmm, that sounds good actually.

Are enemies more tanky?

Fortus

  • Junior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #115 on: July 08, 2023, 11:29:59 AM »
Hmmm, that sounds good actually.

Are enemies more tanky?

Things do scale in Final Fantasy mode so bosses are still spongy hp-wise but having all your tools to deal with that is why I think you'll find it much better. Also, since I know the story already, skipping some cutscenes helps with pacing. I'm already in the Desert :O
pie

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #116 on: July 08, 2023, 11:57:40 AM »
Hmmm, that sounds good actually.

Are enemies more tanky?

Things do scale in Final Fantasy mode so bosses are still spongy hp-wise but having all your tools to deal with that is why I think you'll find it much better. Also, since I know the story already, skipping some cutscenes helps with pacing. I'm already in the Desert :O

Yeah, I'll see how it goes.

I haven't found boss HP an issue in the 2nd half after a bit because since the game opens up with more optional content and the story is tuned for players who aren't doing it, you can get a bit overpowered and midbosses/bosses go down pretty quickly in 1-2 staggers.

Boss HPs in the first half was kinda much though. Akashic Dragon fight was probably the longest normal boss fight in the game for me. Took maybe 3-4 staggers which was way too long.

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
🤴

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #118 on: July 08, 2023, 05:42:01 PM »
Isn't Elwin just Sean Bean/Ned Stark?

Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #119 on: July 09, 2023, 01:49:06 PM »
Yeah, this is definitely not an RPG and totally just an Action Adventure with "RPG elements" sprinkled in.. just like most character action games nowadays... And it's completely fine.  It works and is still fun to play and gorgeous to watch.  Unlike other games of late *ahem, I have to stop myself from engaging in every enemy encounter because the fighting is so fun and actually rewarding.

Not too far still.. guess I went through a pacing slump; heading back to Phoenix Gate with Jill.  Some of the side quests are total snoozers, some are actual fat slices of background lore/scenarios. 
Only big boss fight so far was Geruda.. which was really fun.  My damn muscle memory keeps making me faulter in fights though; hitting O to dodge instead of R1.   :duh

I need the OST.  Good shit.