Author Topic: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN  (Read 4758 times)

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Joe Molotov

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FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« on: June 22, 2023, 09:53:11 AM »
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Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2023, 11:27:04 AM »
Played an hour last night. Been in full media blackout so didn't know a thing about it.

I have no issue with FF games not being turn-based, that's fine.
But, I do want my FF to be more Japanese videogame-y. This is way too western looking for me. All the characters look wrpg bland and the environments dull and muted colors. Can't say I'm interested in the characters or world so far.

Feels like taking FF15's look and going even further into western territory. Even the Japanese VA is bad and feels like a half-asses dub.

Hopefully it feels more FF as it goes along. Just getting that PS3/X360 era feeling initially of Japanese devs chasing western styles, which they don't do very well.

If not, eh, at least 14 still exists and is super Japanese.

Svejk

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2023, 05:21:47 PM »
Played an hour last night. Been in full media blackout so didn't know a thing about it.

I have no issue with FF games not being turn-based, that's fine.
But, I do want my FF to be more Japanese videogame-y. This is way too western looking for me. All the characters look wrpg bland and the environments dull and muted colors. Can't say I'm interested in the characters or world so far.

Feels like taking FF15's look and going even further into western territory. Even the Japanese VA is bad and feels like a half-asses dub.

Hopefully it feels more FF as it goes along. Just getting that PS3/X360 era feeling initially of Japanese devs chasing western styles, which they don't do very well.

If not, eh, at least 14 still exists and is super Japanese.
The devs even suggested to first play through with English dub, then play the Japanese afterwards.  :yeshrug

Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2023, 05:55:38 PM »
Yeah, it's cool to Japanese players because they mostly don't understand English and it just sounds like movie English acting like watching a medieval europe movie with subs.

I haven't listened to the dub yet, may check it out for a bit. I generally can't stand English VA in Japanese games unless it's purposefully goofy/terrible like Devil May Cry/Resident Evil. If it's a good dub maybe I'll go English VA. Otherwise I'll just listen to the bad JP dub.

Even MGS which Kojima is focused on making it like a western movie at least has a very, very good JP VA track in all of them because I think Kojima is such a perfectionist even if he prefers the English dub he can't have anything less than an A+ JP VA track (and also he's buddies with some of the JP voice actors like Akio Ohtsuka who does Snake).

FF16's a bit weird too in that this is the FF14 team and FF14 has a pretty good JP VA track. But it's also way more anime. Still, you can do a western medieval style with a good Japan VA. FFXII has more of that style and still has a good JP VA track.

Himu

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2023, 07:29:14 PM »
Played an hour last night. Been in full media blackout so didn't know a thing about it.

I have no issue with FF games not being turn-based, that's fine.
But, I do want my FF to be more Japanese videogame-y. This is way too western looking for me. All the characters look wrpg bland and the environments dull and muted colors. Can't say I'm interested in the characters or world so far.

Feels like taking FF15's look and going even further into western territory. Even the Japanese VA is bad and feels like a half-asses dub.

Hopefully it feels more FF as it goes along. Just getting that PS3/X360 era feeling initially of Japanese devs chasing western styles, which they don't do very well.

If not, eh, at least 14 still exists and is super Japanese.

This is why I'm not getting it. It doesn't even look like Final Fantasy. I noted on the initial reveal trailers how utterly boring it looked. Where's the FF pizazz? The character designs looked like they were made in Europe. Then there's the action combat. If I wanted a full on action with FF, I would play Devil May Cry (which seems to be what they're going for) instead. Besides names like Ifrit and stuff like it doesn't even resemble FF.

The fact that 14, an MMO, is the only other option is lol and pretty much shows the franchise, depending on what you want, isn't worth investing in anymore unless you're a die-hard.

That said, people seem to really like it so I'm happy they're enjoying it. This will be the first mainline FF since I became a fan with FFVII that I probably won't end up purchasing. In fact, I think it's the first mainline FF I haven't bought on day one since FFVIII. The critics love it and audience loves it so it seems this will be the direction for the franchise going forward. We had a good run but sometimes it's best to say good bye to old friends. Maybe in time they'll draw me back with a Final Fantasy Tactics 2. Who knows! But the current direction excites me not a nill.

I'm surprised you went complete media blackout. I own no loyalty to any franchise, so they have to earn all of my purchases. Final Fantasy as a franchise does not deserve blind loyalty after twenty years of fuck ups so I'm shocked you would do a black out. lol, why?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 07:53:56 PM by Himu »
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Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2023, 07:54:48 PM »
FF is great. Iím a fanboy so Iíve got no major complaints with the franchise.

15 was fun, Stranger in Paradise was sick as hell, Theatrythmís fantastic, FF7r is the best, FF14 expansions have been amazing.

But I go into everything blind these days because why bother watching shit for games you know youíre going to play anyhow. I like game announcements so I know they exist and mark them down as getting someday, but after that I just kind of ignore all games until I play them anymore.

Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2023, 07:56:53 PM »
Iíll probably like/love this one.

Just a bit put off by the westaboo. I always feel like westaboo games are a waste of dev years. Dragonís Dogma looks more Japanese than FF16 so far.

Himu

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2023, 07:58:42 PM »
Ah. I'm not a fanboy anymore. I'm glad you get to still enjoy FF like that. I'm very jealous!
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Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2023, 09:20:06 PM »
Yeah, and I forgot about the very great Pixel Remasters of 1-6. Series has been on a roll last 3-4 years.


Also I think FF15 gets a bad rap. I had a lot of fun with it, the music was great, characters were good, cities/towns were cool. Had a very great European x Japanese halfway between aesthetic vibe. Really FF15's one big flaw is that the story is unfinished and feels like it's missing the last 1/3rd of a game (which is instead in a novel).

But you know what other FF felt unfinished and missing the last 1/3rd of the game? FF12. And people don't hate on FF12 the way they hate on FF15 (tbf FF12 has a better battle system and better cities though).

FF15 is flawed but was very much worth playing. FF14's been great after it's initial hiccup. FF13 is really the only fuck up for the FF series in the last 20 years imo. It's just a boring game with a boring cast and the only thing it has going for it is the incredible art direction and graphics at the time and some good music.  Worst game in the whole franchise imo. 13-2's cool though.

Coax

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2023, 12:01:00 AM »
I haven't listened to the dub yet, may check it out for a bit. I generally can't stand English VA in Japanese games unless it's purposefully goofy/terrible like Devil May Cry/Resident Evil. If it's a good dub maybe I'll go English VA.

From the gameplay I've watched it's very good and without the type of Saturday morning cartoon English VA affected schtick one often hears in Japanese-to-English anime/game dubs (probably helped by the fact they're all British VAs).

Himu

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2023, 12:04:49 AM »
Is it FFXII quality?
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Coax

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2023, 12:42:22 AM »
Is it FFXII quality?

The dub? Looking up gameplay I could charitably say FFXII sounds like what I'd expect a mid-00s English dub would sound like :doge

Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2023, 12:59:46 AM »
I haven't listened to the dub yet, may check it out for a bit. I generally can't stand English VA in Japanese games unless it's purposefully goofy/terrible like Devil May Cry/Resident Evil. If it's a good dub maybe I'll go English VA.

From the gameplay I've watched it's very good and without the type of Saturday morning cartoon English VA affected schtick one often hears in Japanese-to-English anime/game dubs (probably helped by the fact they're all British VAs).

Yeah, this is what generally turns me off of English VA in jrpgs. Will check out the English track tonight.

Himu

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2023, 01:04:37 AM »
Is it FFXII quality?

The dub? Looking up gameplay I could charitably say FFXII sounds like what I'd expect a mid-00s English dub would sound like :doge

I mean, that's the era of MGS and Cowboy Bebop so...

If anything, dub quality has gone down since the 2000's.
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Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2023, 01:09:07 AM »
I'm at least glad that multiple FF aesthetics currently exist in the AAA front. You have styles like FF16 realistic western,

styles like FF14 cartoony







And styles like FF7r realistic anime







At least SE isn't betting the farm on just one style and you get some variety.

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2023, 02:03:40 AM »
FFXVI apparently recorded its voice tracks in English first, did all its motion capture with European actors, and the lead English translator worked closely with the Japanese lead writer from the beginning of the writing process and basically co-wrote the script, so it's not even exactly a Japanese-to-English dub really?
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Himu

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2023, 07:50:01 AM »
I'm at least glad that multiple FF aesthetics currently exist in the AAA front. You have styles like FF16 realistic western,

styles like FF14 cartoony

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

And styles like FF7r realistic anime

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

At least SE isn't betting the farm on just one style and you get some variety.

I think it shows that SE has no actual idea what it wants for the franchise. No one vision. No one plan.
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Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2023, 09:25:22 AM »
I'm at least glad that multiple FF aesthetics currently exist in the AAA front. You have styles like FF16 realistic western,

styles like FF14 cartoony

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

And styles like FF7r realistic anime

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

At least SE isn't betting the farm on just one style and you get some variety.

I think it shows that SE has no actual idea what it wants for the franchise. No one vision. No one plan.
It never is for FF. Look at the differences just between FF6 -> 7 -> 8 -> 9 -> 10.  They're changing the art direction all the time.  I see no problem with this, other than a certain installment not jiving with some people. 

For example, I think the FF9 style is vomit inducing, but allot of people love it.  Still, good on them for trying a different approach yet again.  FFXVI is no different.

Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2023, 09:30:50 AM »
Iíll probably like/love this one.

Just a bit put off by the westaboo. I always feel like westaboo games are a waste of dev years. Dragonís Dogma looks more Japanese than FF16 so far.
Interesting. I would have to disagree. I see way more anime influence in this over DD.. just by Clive and Jill alone from what I've seen; their face builds and hair.  So far, all the characters look like they're all from the same KILLING CHAOS boat style realistic anime, and DD edges closer to trying to emulate a western/European style.

Himu

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2023, 09:48:37 AM »
I'm at least glad that multiple FF aesthetics currently exist in the AAA front. You have styles like FF16 realistic western,

styles like FF14 cartoony

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

And styles like FF7r realistic anime

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

At least SE isn't betting the farm on just one style and you get some variety.

I think it shows that SE has no actual idea what it wants for the franchise. No one vision. No one plan.
It never is for FF. Look at the differences just between FF6 -> 7 -> 8 -> 9 -> 10.  They're changing the art direction all the time.  I see no problem with this, other than a certain installment not jiving with some people. 

For example, I think the FF9 style is vomit inducing, but allot of people love it.  Still, good on them for trying a different approach yet again.  FFXVI is no different.

VIII, X, XII, XIII all have a pretty consistent style. IX is the main anomaly.

1-VI are also consistent as well. VII was a transition game but once VIII rolled around it was realistic-esque anime designs.
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HardcoreRetro

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2023, 10:14:26 AM »
Still feels really anime to me so far. It's basically like the anime Vinland Saga crossed with the action spectacle of old God of War games.

It's hilarious that I have to play the newest installment in the FF series to get what I actually wanted from the new God of War games. I think the setpieces I played so far were basically the demo section and it's some of the coolest shit I've seen in gaming in years.

Svejk

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2023, 10:39:39 AM »
Asura's Wrath and OG GOW looking at FFXVI like..


thetylerrob

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2023, 11:53:30 AM »
The Dub doesn't sound like a dub and they didn't really dub this dub either. W

Also, the aesthetic of FF has only been inconsistent since the PS1 because they went for Tetsuya Nomura's high-fashion style for half of those games. Culminating in FFXIII, where the characters actually became fashion billboards and they forgot to give them human qualities.

Fortus

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2023, 12:47:26 PM »
Combat reminds me of my Insect Glaive wielding hunter from Mon Hunter World. Odd for a Final Fantasy but pretty satisfying when I'm in the groove
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Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2023, 01:37:04 PM »
Yeah, tried the english track last night and it's pretty good. Will probably play my first jrpg in English VO lol

I will say that just comparing the english script to the JP script they're definitely a bit different. I generally play games in the language of the developers/writers to get the original intent, so it's a shame the JP track is pretty mid and the lip sync is so off it's very off-putting.

English script seems fine, might even be better. It's just depends on whether wanting to read the original lines by the writer or not. Localization is definitely doing its job to make it more modern acceptable though, like one of the first lines in the game is basically the gist of (going from my memory, not looking at the scenes now)

(JPN script)
Person A: The Mission is to go after Shiva's dominant
Person B: What's a woman doing on a battlefield, LOL

(English script)
Person A: The Mission is to go after Shiva's dominant
Person B: Just her?

But yeah basically went through the intro in both versions to compare them and it's interesting to see the localization approach. Another one I remember was in the sword training the captain guy tells Clive something like:

(JPN script)
Captain Guy: You want to try again? A Knight [Shield in US script] shouldn't have to be the one that's protected.

(English script)
Captian Guy: You want to try again? Otherwise there's always jobs in the stables.


English script is probably better in both examples, but yeah, just interesting seeing the differences. If I had the time I'd play it twice in each language to check out both.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 01:46:24 PM by Bebpo »

Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2023, 01:48:14 PM »
Anyhow, I'm just super nerdy about localization. But that's what happens when you get a degree in Japanese supplemented by practicing on jrpgs the whole time.

Rahxephon91

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2023, 02:08:40 PM »
Game sucks.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2023, 02:09:13 PM »
I'm at least glad that multiple FF aesthetics currently exist in the AAA front. You have styles like FF16 realistic western,

styles like FF14 cartoony

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

And styles like FF7r realistic anime

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

At least SE isn't betting the farm on just one style and you get some variety.

I think it shows that SE has no actual idea what it wants for the franchise. No one vision. No one plan.
I mean they think thats the point of FF..

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2023, 05:02:44 PM »
I'm at least glad that multiple FF aesthetics currently exist in the AAA front. You have styles like FF16 realistic western,

styles like FF14 cartoony

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

And styles like FF7r realistic anime

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

At least SE isn't betting the farm on just one style and you get some variety.

I think it shows that SE has no actual idea what it wants for the franchise. No one vision. No one plan.
I mean they think thats the point of FF..

Y'all? Can we lay this argument on a chopping block and chop its head off?

Because it's completely ahistorical.

Final Fantasy as a franchise from 1 to X always had a consistent and coherent vision. 1-5 were all directed by Sakaguchi, with Uematsu doing music, and Amano as character designer. From VI to X, the director changed from Kitase, and character designer to Nomura starting with VII, but the Kitase era has a completely different vision than the Sakaguchi era. IX was an aberration but still fit the new Kitase vision. The vision changed but it was still its own vision. Now FF changes directors every single new game, with a new composer every new game, with a new character designer every new game. Ever since XII (or arguably XI) they've treated FF as a brand rather than a franchise with a cohesive vision.

In its 30 year history, the constant changing of visions is actually fairly new. A big problem with FF now is that each new FF is made by a different team with different goals. This was not always the case and in its classic era (FFIV - X) , there was definitely a unified vision for the franchise. To say "different visions = Final fantasy" is flat out bullshit and I don't understand when this rhetoric took off.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 05:07:45 PM by Himu »
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Rahxephon91

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2023, 05:30:39 PM »
I mean you can complain all you want Himu, but the actual creative people behind this series disagree with you.

They have all said a FF can be anything. Kitase recently said it can be a FPS. The Forbes article mentions Kitase telling Yoshida to stop asking him what a FF has to be.

And even in your examples, FF4 is quite different than 1-3. 5 is different than 4, and then 6 throws out what 5 did with its systems.

But I also don't know what you're arguing about. Because you were talking about the visuals. The 3d FF's all look different than each other and no doubt had 1-6 been 3d games made after the PS1 they would as well.

Now I will agree with you that people do overplay the "series is always changing card", as there is a clear dna running through 1-13, but I mean the people behind the series think each installment should be different.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 05:36:25 PM by Rahxephon91 »

Svejk

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2023, 06:16:04 PM »
The obvious reason for 'changing up visions' now, is that it takes 6-8 fucking years to make a FF when compared to 1-2 back then.

Let's Cyber

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2023, 06:17:10 PM »
Game is gud but hurts my hands after 2-3 hours of playtime. DMC5 did the same thing, unfortunately. I think I'm just getting old.  :-\

The soundtrack is stellar.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2023, 06:37:20 PM »
The obvious reason for 'changing up visions' now, is that it takes 6-8 fucking years to make a FF when compared to 1-2 back then.

I would guess the bulk of the team gets burnt out after one and wants a break.

Also SE wants to hedge their bets. If one team keeps making them and the public doesnít like that teamís vision, the brand is fucked. By switching it up they can try different styles and staff and try to get a huge hit and then maybe stick with that again.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2023, 06:39:24 PM »
That said itíll be interesting to see whatís next for Kitase team after FF7r is done. Wouldnít be surprised if they do another remake project and stick to those since itís less risk.

Iíd take an FF8r three game remake.

Rahxephon91

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2023, 06:47:56 PM »
I want Kitase's team to at least make one more new FF.

Joe Molotov

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2023, 07:29:23 PM »
Lmao, people are really like "omg this game is too western it's just Game of Thrones"? Are you seeing this shit where people are doing anime grunts to charge up their power levels and then randomly there will just be a kaiju battle? This game is anime as fuck. :rejoice
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Beezy

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2023, 08:55:57 PM »
Game sucks.
I thought you were skipping it?

Svejk

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2023, 03:41:02 AM »
This shit's fucking good.  It's ticking more boxes than expected.
This is a FF.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2023, 04:01:50 AM »
Played a bunch of this.

Game is great. English audio is very, very good. Could almost think this is a real western game if it wasn't for the weirdly non-emotive facial animations and odd general animations everywhere. It's like this AAA God of War Ragnorak Sony thing but with that AA budget, but it works.

Only negatives so far are:
-The level design feels like it's FFXIII all over again where you just are walking down a corridor. The lack of any environmental interaction at all and the inability to go explore around and jump over a branch that's a foot high is a real bummer.
-Way too much cutscene watching vs game playing, hopefully that's just the first 4-5 hours and then it gets better balanced
-Grunt fighting is boring and mashy. I wish the game had a hard mode.

Positives are:
-Mini-bosses and boss fights are fucking GOOD, really enjoyable combat for them, though again needs a hard mode because the tells so far are way too easy to just dodge and counter
-Music is fantastic
-The FF throwbacks are pretty great and well done. The Dragoon fight was badass as fuck. The FF boss battle music arrangement, etc... all great stuff.
-Story is solid so far
-Graphics are pretty nice outside character models which are a bit last-gen

So far the game seems unfortunately a huge course correction reaction to FFXV's gameplay-focused open world/light story design because some people complained about it. Which I think is a shame because FFXIII's design was BAD and FFXV's design was a good "first" open-world FF and had a lot of potential.

I was hoping FFXVI's design would be more like FFXII since it's a lot of the same staff. Was hoping for big wide MMO-like zones and big MMO-like cities. But so far it's basically just...FFX/FFXIII corridor design again. I feel like there is a midway between FFXV's sandbox world and corridors with lengthy cutscenes that FF could be hitting for the sweet spot but it doesn't seem like that's this one. FFXIV is a bit closer to that with exploring the MMO zones at least.

But yeah, this game really cements to me that as a long time jrpg player who loves turn-based combat, that I don't really care what the combat is in an rpg anymore. It can be a turn-based menu system or it can be an action game like this and they're both essentially the same to me. As long as there is some degree of depth to an rpg battle system to help carry it, that's good enough. RPGs are mostly about the story/questing and hitting things in combat in-between. Doesn't really matter how you hit things as long as the hitting is fun and not brainless (arpgs that are mindless are the worst because you just mash a single button).

Pissy F Benny

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2023, 08:11:06 AM »
My only quibbles after 5 or so hours are the kinda shitty face models and it's game of thrones influences being a bit too on the nose (you literally are Jon Snow and
spoiler (click to show/hide)
totally not Ned stark has his head cut off :comeon
[close]

Shits fucking rad.
(ice)

Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2023, 01:37:33 PM »
The VA along with the facial expressions are top tier.  This is practically ND levels of human emotions coming through, with a realistic anime layer slathered over it.  Haven't felt this enthralled in a videogame story in a long time.  I love this game already. 

Combat is fantastic. Haters can hate, this shit is quality fun.  And stunning to see play out.  The production levels are through the roof and polished AF... What you'd expect from a FF of old.  This is my GOTY so far.  Way more fun than Zchmelda, by a long shot.

Guess we're reaching that point where current gen consoles are starting to plateau in performance.. which is fine, but it was sure nice the past 2.5 years of playing practically everything at 60fps.  That being said, I'm playing this in Graphics mode.  It just looks too good and crisp and beautiful not to.  The lighting and texture work is tits.  And transitions from cutscenes to fighting with zero hiccups is really stable.  Longest loading took like 3 seconds so far. 

SE has done it again somehow... The story, emotions, spectacles, drama, intense action, Easter eggs, the fucking beautiful ass music... This is the FF that I only dreamed of back in the 90's.  Straight up having a great time with this.

Pissy F Benny

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2023, 03:10:14 PM »
I'm getting GOAT tier feels so far ive not had since witcher 3 :thinking 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 05:49:48 PM by Pissy F Benny »
(ice)

Fortus

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2023, 04:51:08 PM »
Typhon fight was....wow
pie

Let's Cyber

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2023, 06:38:10 PM »
I feel bad for the first big budget western fantasy RPG to follow this up...

The devs at BioWare working on Dreadwolf must be playing this and falling into despair  :stahp

Let's Cyber

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2023, 06:42:19 PM »
And so many modern AAA games drop the ball on their soundtrack that this is a breath of fresh air.

Probably the best OST since Nier: Automata  :lawd

Rahxephon91

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2023, 06:51:39 PM »
Dragon Age will probably be an actual rpg with an actual decent game world. Why would they be worried about a poor FF title?

Hell, at this point I belive any developer could make a better rpg than Yoshi Pís team.

Svejk

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2023, 08:42:30 PM »
Well, Dragon's Dogma 2 will spackle astronomical heights above this or any feeble attempt of a western dev for a fantasy RPG forever more, so...


bork

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2023, 01:51:22 PM »
Game sucks.
I thought you were skipping it?

After all that pre-release hating, he still bought the Collector's Edition.

 :dead
ど助平

Rahxephon91

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2023, 04:14:04 PM »
Game sucks.
I thought you were skipping it?

After all that pre-release hating, he still bought the Collector's Edition.

 :dead
Yeah, I see now it would have been healthier for me to actually not do that.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2023, 04:32:34 PM »
At least Bioware has track record of releasing banger rpgs the last few years.

Ahahahahahahaha.

Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2023, 05:01:15 PM »
I will say I never want another walk and talk and fight and cutscene game again. Especially not an FF.
FF13 is my least favorite in the series because itís so boring gameplay-wise. People say FF10 is like that too but I havenít played it in 20 years so I donít remember how itís executed there.
So far this is running a close second and a big step down from FF15 in gameplay for me. When they donít even give you a mini-map because the whole area is just a corridorÖ

Story is solid, graphics outside frame rate are great, music excellent but itís a total snore to play outside boss fights early on.

Would have rather Yoshi-P just made an offline MMO with nice graphics and a good story.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2023, 05:33:25 PM »
The only thing I'm thinking so far is. Give these guys a crack at a Malazan book of the Fallen game. They'd nail something like Moon's Spawn or the way mages operate in that universe.

Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2023, 05:49:15 PM »
I also feel like boss fights are kind of boring because of the boss HPs and not having enough of an offensive arsenal to do anything interesting.

I'm still really early on, just finished the forest area and got to uh Stillglade I think it's called? But on boss fights/mini-bosses all I can do is just dodge and mash slash until my cooldowns finish and then pop them and then it's another 60 seconds of just dodging and slash slash slash slash slash. Ranged magic seems pointless so far and weaker than slashes and even the hold down slash for a flamed slash seems like less DPS than just doing 2-3 slashes in the same time frame. So there's basically no point in doing anything other than slash slash slash.

Learning the boss patterns and dodging them is fun for a bit each fight, but they usually don't have a lot of attacks and once you figure them out and counter a few times and stagger them down and pop your cooldowns you've seen everything there is to the fight and then it's just doing it another 2-3x times until the HP is gone.

I'm really hoping that as I get more abilities the combat gets more varied on the offensive side.

Fortus

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2023, 06:44:04 PM »
I also feel like boss fights are kind of boring because of the boss HPs and not having enough of an offensive arsenal to do anything interesting.

I'm still really early on, just finished the forest area and got to uh Stillglade I think it's called? But on boss fights/mini-bosses all I can do is just dodge and mash slash until my cooldowns finish and then pop them and then it's another 60 seconds of just dodging and slash slash slash slash slash. Ranged magic seems pointless so far and weaker than slashes and even the hold down slash for a flamed slash seems like less DPS than just doing 2-3 slashes in the same time frame. So there's basically no point in doing anything other than slash slash slash.

Learning the boss patterns and dodging them is fun for a bit each fight, but they usually don't have a lot of attacks and once you figure them out and counter a few times and stagger them down and pop your cooldowns you've seen everything there is to the fight and then it's just doing it another 2-3x times until the HP is gone.

I'm really hoping that as I get more abilities the combat gets more varied on the offensive side.

There's definately some pacing issues with this game. Have you gotten any other aspects yet aside from Ifrit? Your moveset expands as you progress through the story and bosses/mini-bosses will be a bit more varied. I'm with you on the enviroments, there's a lot of XIII here like it or not. My advice; grit your teeth and get to the Typhon fight. If after that you're still disillusioned set it aside and come back after a break
pie

remy

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2023, 07:15:50 PM »
Game definitely needs the earlier encounters to be harder.

I also wouldn't mind maybe one more basic combo on the ground and on the air. Although once I figured out the magic burst thing and the dog I kinda like the tap tap, tap tap, tap tap, rhythm of playing it. Maybe I'm a freak but once I figured out I could do my dmc nero special of launch -> slash slash slash -> jump cancel -> slash slash slash -> jump cancel -> slash slash slash downsmash I was having fun.

Boss designs so far have been awesome imo. I love the varied patterns and shades of FFXIV don't stand in the glowing spot mechanics being layered on top of a typical action game boss, then interspersed with asuras wrath/platinum games cinematic madness

Quote
Ranged magic seems pointless so far and weaker than slashes and even the hold down slash for a flamed slash seems like less DPS than just doing 2-3 slashes in the same time frame. So there's basically no point in doing anything other than slash slash slash.
I believe the charged smash is used for guard breaking resilient enemies and charged magic are most often used on downed enemies to get a launcher.

I have no idea what the standard magic shot is for, but both the charged attacks do a lot more damage than the regular hits. I think you are meant to weave them and use them to cancel recovery on laggy hits like dmc.

With the charged magic, if you're sweaty, you can do stuff like slash slash slash (hold magic) slash finisher (release charge magic) to get a combo that ends in a launch, which you can then follow by phoenix shifting. they showed this in a couple of the trailers.

I'm not super sure about burning blade usage but I tend to either use it as a parry or charge it during long skill animations like the downthrust and release at the end.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2023, 07:36:36 PM by remy »

Beezy

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2023, 09:22:50 PM »
Played the intro which is what I'm assuming was the demo section. This is really FF Thrones. :lol

Svejk

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2023, 11:09:05 PM »
I never played XIII, but the linearity starting off has been completely fine by me.  With such a story and presentation, you want it to keep moving to see where it's going.  I'm gonna assume that the areas and side quests will grow in their complexity some as the game progresses.  Definitely not expecting a labyrinth type final dungeon, but with this bombastic combat, I'd rather it just bring the hoards and bigger baddies.  But yeah, the bosses so far have been a bit too easy, but I imagine that will ramp up later as well.  Still cool as shit though.

That title/map screen music.  :preach

remy

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2023, 01:30:38 AM »
bioware  :lol

Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2023, 09:33:51 PM »
So this game is legit pretty bad. They really fucked up a mainline FF...again

It's crazy how the side games keep getting it right like FF7 Remake, World of FF, Stranger of Paradise. They find a good design that balances gameplay and story and they run with it. Yet, the mainline FF games just keep fucking up hard. All I can think is that the mainline games have too many cooks in the kitchen problem of every producer/creative at SE wanting it to go one way or another, whereas the side games they're more hands off.

Like for FF16:

Ditch the turn-based combat into all action? Ok, that's fine.
Ditch the world exploration, dungeons, rpg systems for action stages? Ok, that's fine
Make spectacular QTE fights like Asura's Wrath? Ok, sure.

But like instead of just copying Devil May Cry/Asura's Wrath and making a pure Platinum stage-based action game with cutscenes between, it feels like they're still trying to be like 20% a jrpg and that just pulls it in different directions.

Like if this was just a DMC/Bayonetta-clone, you'd have a style meter, you'd have different rewards at the end of each battle based on your performance. You'd replay stages in arcade mode to get rewards for getting higher scores. All of this would motivate mixing up the combat and replaying the stages. But for whatever reason they fuck it up? There's a style meter, but it's only in arcade mode, and it doesn't reward anything for the main campaign.

If it was a DMC/Bayonetta clone, the combat should flow better, easier to launch, easier to move around, less weighty, especially for the enemies. It should be more fun, less mashy.

The combat feels like it's trying to be Dragon's Dogma and be more an arpg combat, while also trying to be a stage based action game, while also trying to be an FFXIII walk and talk cutscene story. It just doesn't really work. They should have focused on ripping off a single genre and executed that really well with a good story/music/gfx. Either make a pure action game, or make a dragon's dogma kind of game, or make an rpg. Idk, but they need to pick one.

The game just feels really unsatisfying to play. Might as well just watch all the cutscenes as an interactive movie. FFXIII was like this too.

I really never expected that out of the FF13/15/16 trio of modern AAA FF mainlines, that FF15, as a bastardized unfinished game made in 18 months by a PSP team, would turn out of the best of the three by far. When I was playing FF15 and driving around and riding chocobos and doing FFXII style hunts and eating foods and hanging with the bros and discovering mysteries in the desert I was having way more fun than I am walking down another corridor with grumpy Clive to another fight with the same group of enemies over and over. Also as much as FF16 has a great score, so did FF15 with Shimomura putting in the work.

I'll stick with FF16 for the story/music/gfx and see it through. But considering FF14 and Heavensward were very good, this is an incredibly disappointing game from this staff. Especially the staff being like Matsuno's proteges. Vagrant Story, TO/FFT, FFXII were pretty technical gameplay games that had interesting mechanics along with their stories. The game aspect of FF16 is kind of pathetic coming from this team. I had no idea that Yoshi-P who made zone and gameplay-based FF14's deep desire was to make interactive movies.

Feels like about a 7/10 so far. No idea how FF16 reviewed so well. Maybe the story will be worth it in the end. But I just can't see this being anything beyond the 2nd worst mainline FF of all time (with FF13 being the worst).

Strangers of Paradise hilariously is a much better FF than this. Should've just called that one FF16 and tightened up the visuals and called it a day. At least that one had good gameplay and the story was decent as well.


This and Zelda were the two big 2023 games for me. Zelda was amazing and better than I expected by far. While this is worse :( I guess 1 for 2 is better than both games being a disappointment. Yeah I'm also interested in Spider-Man 2, but it's Insomniac, so I'm sure it'll just be more of the same from the last two ones, which is fine but nothing interesting or special.

I guess next game that has a chance to wow me will be FF7r Rebirth. As long as they don't tinker with the combat/stage flow that much for the worse, it should be good. What I would have given to have a new original story FF game in the style of FF7r :\
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 09:39:31 PM by Bebpo »

Bebpo

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Re: FINAL FANTASY SIXTEEN
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2023, 01:34:07 AM »
Ok, got to Eastpool. A little more ok with the game now that there are actual zones where you can explore around and kill monsters and get loot and do crappy sidequests. Game still needs way more optional content to do. Like towns are so non-interactive outside a merchant or two. At least AC which isn't particularly interactive has mini-games like playing cards or something in the tavern. Give me some mini-games and some fishing or something.

Also didn't realize that jumping hold [] is a launcher until I was upgrading abilities and saw the demo video do it. Enjoying the combat more now that I can easily air juggle stuff.

Still not great, or even as good as a modern Star Ocean level of rpg, but passable I guess.