star trek

[Eschaton]

should I watch this? or do something else

[D3RANG3D]

Yes as long as you go straight to deep space 9 or voyager.

[Tasty]

TNG > *

[D3RANG3D]

TNG > *

Rewatch it it really isn't.

[Tasty]

It has good parts and bad.

Really, it's been so long since I've seen any Trek show. Should really do a rewatch but that's like 500 hours or whatever, lol.

[Himu]

It has good parts and bad.

okay stoney

[Momo]

TNG then DS9 yes. Never, ever Voyager.

[D3RANG3D]

so by process of elimination i should start with DS9

If you watch DS9 first it will ruin the other ones in terms of how much better it is to the other ones.

[Tasty]

TNG then DS9 yes. Never, ever Voyager.

This is my prerogative too.

Original series is fine as well.

[D3RANG3D]

TNG then DS9 yes. Never, ever Voyager.

This is my prerogative too.

Original series is fine as well.

TNG is a snooze fest.

it's only saving graces are data and Q.

[D3RANG3D]

so then why is voyager so divisive? Kinda thinking about starting with TNG

Misogyny

[Great Rumbler]

Most of the first two season of TNG are pretty dire, so just watch a few select episodes and then move onto Season 3.

Select episodes being mainly the two-parter at the beginning and any episodes with Q. Here's a handy guide:

http://www.tv.com/shows/star-trek-the-next-generation/episodes/

[Himu]

so then why is voyager so divisive? Kinda thinking about starting with TNG

start with the original movie. if you like, continue.

[Phoenix Dark]

It has good parts and bad.

okay stoney

[Trent Dole]

Why the fuck was there never a TNG movie with Q anyway? So lame.

[Nintendosbooger]

I insist that you watch TNG - perhaps not in its entirety but definitely season 3 on - prior to jumping on DS9.

Reason is because TNG established its own lore, as well as restructured that of the original series, all of which acts as a foundation for the Deep Space Nine Universe. There is definitely some overlap between the two shows. You will be completely lost with regard to key episodes and characters from DS9 whose back story originate in TNG.

I give DS9 a lot of credit. The only Star Trek show post-original series that didn't succumb to the Borg get-out-of-ratings-jail-free card. First Stark Trek program to abandon the by-then antiquated episodic format and present a season-long arc. The Dominion War.

I simply cannot believe how far the series fell after that. Voyager was a return to the old TNG formula, but by then viewers were bored by the pristine and stoic presentation of the Federation which had been replaced by a more gritty and militaristic appearance in DS9. You want to know what Voyager should have been? Watch the first 3 seasons of BSG.

Enterprise started slow, but I think it began to warm up in the end. By then it was too late, but the show's writers did their best to damage control a doomed backwards concept that should never have launched in the first place. Going backwards in the Star Trek Universe timeline is the same as erasing almost 50 years of Star Trek lore, which isn't something that sits well with Star Trek loyalists.

What they should have done instead is create a series based on:

[Joe Molotov]

I watched Season 1 of TNG on Blu-Ray a few months back, it's still pretty fun. I need to pick up Season 2.

[Momo]

"Why not Voyager"

Apart from Tom Paris, Seven of Spandex and maybe Kes I found all the chars to be dreadful and wanted their ship to be blown up every episode. I was always rooting for the villains. That and they used so many recycled ideas from TOS and TNG that it may as well have been horse armor DLC to the first shows. They did introduce interesting species though, but never ever did it matter longer than 2 episodes. That and it came after DS9 which is an absolute masterclass of Star Trek.


EDIT: Actually the Doctor was great too.

If I had to rank TNG = DS9 > TOS >>>> Voyager >>>>> Enterprise (shitty start). DS9 is probably better than TNG overall but TNG is the character set that made me fall in love with Star Trek.

 

You want to know what Voyager should have been? Watch the first 3 seasons of BSG.

[cool breeze]

I started watching star trek tng earlier this month after having limited exposure to star trek past the recent film, wrath of khan, an episode of tos, and whatever through osmosis.  I'm mostly following the gaf recommended watching order, although I skipped the original series.  Here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435749

So far (in season 4) it's beyond what I expected.  I really truly enjoy the show.  Between those awfully dull gifs on gaf and knowing some obnoxious star trek fans in real life, I had a lot of assumptions.  Now I just feel bad for judging the show by its fans and wish I watched it earlier.

It is unbelievably boring, but the interesting side of boring.  It's like watching the day to day of a starship and not something entertaining.

[Joe Molotov]

EDIT: Actually the Doctor was great too.

I was glad when the Doctor showed up in First Contact, he was cool.

[Great Rumbler]

Since we're talking about TNG:

[Joe Molotov]

at dr. crusher being exposed to alien viruses , energy and everything terrible. no mercy for MILF widows i suppose

Just wait until Season 7 when she screws a ghost.

[Momo]

Just wait until Wesley Crusher

[Bloodwake]

TNG, then DS9

I'm rewatching DS9 myself at the moment. DS9 may be the best of the series. It is so very dark compared to the rest of the Trek series. Extremely good writing.

[Great Rumbler]

I'm rewatching DS9 myself at the moment. DS9 may be the best of the series. It is so very dark compared to the rest of the Trek series. Extremely good writing.

Michael Piller

Except he also was one of the main forces behind Voyager, but I won't hold that against him.

[Bloodwake]

Most of the TNG writers moved to DS9. DS9 also had Ira Steven Behr, who really diversified how a Trek series was presented. Ronald D Moore was also on board for DS9.

[benjipwns]

There's a chat log out there with Ronald Moore (maybe IGN?) where he more or less describes the management styles of the writing on each of the franchises since he worked on TNG, DS9 and VOY. On TNG it was still a new endeavor so they had situations like where he was given basically a free hand to recreate Klingon culture from scratch, on DS9 they were always kinda the red-headed stepchild and generally ignored or left alone to the point where Berman (I think) wanted the Dominion War to be over in like four episodes but didn't care enough that they were allowed to do it for three years.

On Voyager though everything was top-down controlled, they couldn't do this, they had to use that, conflict amongst the crew wasn't allowed (even though one of the original core premises was the conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet), the ship had to be repaired and people had to live so it wasn't too depressing (another part of the original premise being how alone they were), etc. People would come in with good story ideas that Berman and Taylor would instantly kill in favor of crap like Threshold. Story lines and character development were curtailed because higher ups disliked serialization and arcs afraid people just tuning in would be scared off. It being the "flagship" show of UPN just made this all worse and drew in more higher ups with their own ideas of how it should be.

And since Voyager was getting all that focus, DS9 was allowed to even more go down its own path.

There's like a short version of this in Enterprise in the first two seasons (look Ferengi! Borg! Decontamination chamber!) where it was supposed to be this hot new streamlined way to bring in not only new fans who never saw Star Trek before or were afraid of sci-fi, but also to bring back all the Star Trek fans who supposedly loved the TOS and some TNG but bailed due to DS9 and "franchise fatigue." And then they basically stopped caring about it when it failed, Star Trek was added to the title, the third season is one long serial and then you have the fan service final season.

[Yeti]

As awesome as a holdeck would be, it seemed to malfunction every three episodes or so of TNG. Geordi Laforge must have been a shitty engineer.

[Yeti]

well the transporters were also fucked up on the regular

[Joe Molotov]

[benjipwns]

describes FTL sometimes

[Bloodwake]

DS9 is the master of the slow build. The Dominion were introduced in season two and were around until the beginning of the show. Meanwhile Voyager sucked.

[Yeti]

I've been trying to slog through Voyager lately. It's not awful, it's just a little lackluster. Some of the characters are pretty interesting, but then they never seem to do anything interesting with them.

[Momo]

Kes is like the only character that has a multi episode plot that actually pays off. Voyager is made of poo

[MrAngryFace]

Year of Hell two part redeems voyager- watch it if you havent

[ToxicAdam]

I watched about every episode of Voyager, but can't tell you one story that I remember. All I can recall are the stunt castings, fan service and a couple very good season finales.

It seemed like a show that was always chasing after the most ratings, instead of trying to be a good show and tell a good story. Although, I guess after DS9's failure, that was to be expected.

[Great Rumbler]

The only episode of Voyager I can remember was the one where Janeway and one of the other members of the crew got up to warp 10 and evolved into lizards, which then mated. It was probably the worst episode of Star Trek ever.

This is the only good thing related to Voyager:

[Phoenix Dark]

I've never been a Star Trek person but I watched TNG many Saturday mornings as a kid. I'd get up super early to sneak into the basement for morning cartoons around 6am. Golden Girls would be on at 6, then TNG at 6:30, and cartoons would start at seven lol

I'll probably go through the series soon. I liked the characters at the time and have heard the show hasn't aged poorly. My fav ep as a kid was the one where Data is in the 1700s or some shit and falls in love with some chick, then the town people try to kill him lol

[MrAngryFace]

Fucking love me some year of hell

[Momo]

The only episode of Voyager I can remember was the one where Janeway and one of the other members of the crew got up to warp 10 and evolved into lizards, which then mated. It was probably the worst episode of Star Trek ever.

Fuck that poo episode. Fuck it to hell.

[Great Rumbler]

[MrAngryFace]

God damn dat last 3-4 seasons of Deep Space 9. YOU WANT SUM SPACESHIPS BLOWIN UP HERE WE GOOOOOO awesome bald bearded sisko get

[Nintendosbooger]

I suppose the success of the rebooted Star Trek movie has stalled any possibility of seeing a new television series.

It sucks because we'll never learn how the Federation and the different empires fared in the aftermath of Dominion War, which shifted the balance of power in the quadrant.

[Momo]

I suppose the success of the rebooted Star Trek movie has stalled any possibility of seeing a new television series.

It sucks because we'll never learn how the Federation and the different empires fared in the aftermath of Dominion War, which shifted the balance of power in the quadrant.

yup, sadly.

There'll be a new TV series. I just think it'll be a reboot, and largely ignore any of the older stuff.  For better or worse.

It will be insta poo

[benjipwns]

Voyager does have some quite good standalone episodes (Death Wish, Distant Origin, Living Witness, Timeless, Pathfinder, for example...) but if you cobbled them all together it might fill one season's worth. You could probably hit two seasons if you included the kinda dumb but fun episodes.

You could also cobble together a season or two of some outright atrocious ones. Like say anything involving that Irish town or whatever the fuck in the holodeck. Or nearly any episode involving Chakotay dreaming.

Year of Hell two part redeems voyager- watch it if you havent

It was originally conceived to be an entire season of the show or at least a half-season, but all viewers hate serialized stories so it became a two-parter.

Equinox is a decent two-parter too.

I suppose the success of the rebooted Star Trek movie has stalled any possibility of seeing a new television series.

It sucks because we'll never learn how the Federation and the different empires fared in the aftermath of Dominion War, which shifted the balance of power in the quadrant.

There are novels that are considered canon that follow up after Nemesis, DS9 and Voyager. The DS9 ones in particular are pretty good and do explore that post-War situation.

Such as Garak's backstory along with some post-destruction of Cardassia musings to Dr. Bashir written by the actor who played Garak:

[Yeti]

I'm just past the part in Voyager where they got the borg lady on their crew. Watching Harry Kim fawn all over her is kind of nauseating. I'm also sick of episodes where Chakotay goes on vision quests/communes with nature. He's a cool character otherwise.

Top Tier Voyager crewmates: Tom Paris, Dr. Hal O. Graham (I know he doesn't have a name but it's so obvious that this should be his name)

Mid Tier Voyager crewmates: B'elanna, Janeway, Chakotay

Shit Tier Voyager crewmates: Neelix, Harry, Borg lady (might redeem herself hopefully)


Pretty much all of DS9 crew is top tier.

[Great Rumbler]

Oh God, the episode where Neelix's organs got stolen. 

[Momo]

Borg lady (might redeem herself hopefully)

Unless you view her as purely eye candy, you will be in for a rough ride

[recursivelyenumerable]

On Voyager though everything was top-down controlled, they couldn't do this, they had to use that, conflict amongst the crew wasn't allowed (even though one of the original core premises was the conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet)

I remember it was weird how they built that up at the start and almost immediately forgot about it. TBH it would probably have been lame anyway if they'd followed through (and dragged it out over years of being in situations where it was totally irrelevant?)

[cool breeze]

Tasha Yar

If she were around for measure of a man, they could've answered whether that event in episode 2 was rape, consensual, masturbation, or something else  :'(
 

[Shaka Khan]

It has good parts and bad.

okay stoney

[ToxicAdam]

Neelix is insufferable. I feel like B'elana was supposed to be the eye candy until they realized no fan was having it.

[Great Rumbler]

this new chick who replaced Dr. Crusher sucks ass. I hate her

Crusher returns permanently in Season 3.

[ToxicAdam]

Have you hit the Whoopi episodes yet? What a terrible casting choice.

[Yeti]

On Voyager though everything was top-down controlled, they couldn't do this, they had to use that, conflict amongst the crew wasn't allowed (even though one of the original core premises was the conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet)

I remember it was weird how they built that up at the start and almost immediately forgot about it. TBH it would probably have been lame anyway if they'd followed through (and dragged it out over years of being in situations where it was totally irrelevant?)

Whatever happened to the race of aliens that looked like tall oompa loompas that were the primary antagonists in the first season? And the organ stealers who also seemed like they might become the primary antagonists? They've both just kind of disappeared.

Also it is kind of weird that Voyager started off being so technologically superior to everyone and they had to wrestle with "do we help them with our technology or not interfere?" and now they are lucky if they are on even terms with everyone else.

[benjipwns]

The Kazon (oompa loompas) are around until the end of the second season, indeed that season has the only good usage of them and their original concept as warring "Crips/Bloods" sects. One reason they ditched the Kazon other than the fact they sucked was they eventually realized that Voyager had been traveling for two years and still kept running into these wannabe Klingon dopes who didn't even have transporters and whose only source of ships were ones they had stolen years ago that barely matched up with Voyager.

I think the evidence that Voyager writers couldn't help but ruin villains is to compare the Borg when they first get a hint of them, Species 8472 when first introduced and even the Hirogen at the start to Borg kids/Unimatrix Zero, BOOTHBY SIMULATION, and Nazi's on the Holodeck. Even individuals like The Borg Queen, Seska and Q fail to escape their erosion from contact with the true villain of the series, Captain Janeway.

[Nintendosbooger]

Just finished S1. I really liked it, even though it was maybe too episodic to be really considered good. I'll definitely keep watching.

Keep it up.

I would probably have suggested skipping season 1 altogether had it not introduced two reoccurring and pivotal characters of the series.

[Bloodwake]

Year of Hell on Voyager was pretty awesome. But that's basically the latter half of DS9.

Seriously, who DIDN'T get fucked over at least once on DS9? Even secondary characters like Garak and Nog get fucked hard.

[Great Rumbler]

I'm watching an episode of TNG on BBC America about Troi falling in love with some boring looking guy. It's pretty much terrible.

[Robo]

Just watch the movie.  The shows are dumb.  The old movies, too.