Metal Gear Solid 4: THE OFFICIAL GAMEPLAY THREAD. Open season on spoilers!

[Narag]

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=926596&topic=43653114

[MCD]

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=926596&topic=43653114

(Image removed from quote.)

[Don Flamenco]

wow at the Raiden vs. Vamp cut scene.  that was less a fight than a choreographed dance...there's less homosexual subtext in any given scene with Tobias in arrested development. 

[BlueTsunami]

I love where Vamp pulls his knife from. Its so blatant that I can't really blame Kojima for it since hes pretty much not hiding the fact that it was a homo ballroom dance. MMM STICK GRAB THE HILT OF MY SWORD VAMP AND PUSH! AUGHHHHHHHHHHHGHGHHGSHHSGHHGHGHGHAAAAAHHHHH

[Don Flamenco]

'twas reverse buttsecks

the "white blood" didn't hit me until a few minutes later.  YICK. 

[MCD]

 

I'm picking this baby in about 3 hours.

[demi]

stick your finger in your butt and yell LA LE LO LE LA ten times! Disk will eject and your finger will smell mighty good.

[Crushed]

I love where Vamp pulls his knife from. Its so blatant that I can't really blame Kojima for it since hes pretty much not hiding the fact that it was a homo ballroom dance. MMM STICK GRAB THE HILT OF MY SWORD VAMP AND PUSH! AUGHHHHHHHHHHHGHGHHGSHHSGHHGHGHGHAAAAAHHHHH

That's where his knife was in MGS2 as well.

[BlueTsunami]

I love where Vamp pulls his knife from. Its so blatant that I can't really blame Kojima for it since hes pretty much not hiding the fact that it was a homo ballroom dance. MMM STICK GRAB THE HILT OF MY SWORD VAMP AND PUSH! AUGHHHHHHHHHHHGHGHHGSHHSGHHGHGHGHAAAAAHHHHH

That's where his knife was in MGS2 as well.

For some reason it never hit me in that game but I don't really think Kojima put Vamps sexuality up in the spotlight. Sure the gay subtext was there but not like it is in this game. I mean, he pulls out the knife slowly and licks it. The stuff that Yaoi dreams are made of.

[fistfulofmetal]

3 => 4 > 1 > 2

Two playthroughs since Thursday, 35 hours. Probably will start a third tomorrow.

[Positive Touch]

Eh, Vamp does the same stuff in 2.  They mentioned his bisexual stuff in the game, but only in codec convos.  He was banging the commander that gave the speech on the tanker, then moved on to Fortune, the commander's daughter. 

[Zeed]

Okay this game was good.

How good?

So good I'm willing to overlook the ending to fucking MGS2.

That good!

[CurseoftheGods]

Kojima really should look up "subtlety" in a dictionary. Some of the cut scenes really should've been toned down.

For example:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Triple Agent Naomi's death with the strings. I really didn't give a fuck that she died, and hearing that violin arrangement made me roll my eyes.

[close]

 

The guy doesn't know when to stop, making some of the later cut scenes overbearingly cheesy.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Drebin at the end with the flowers and doves.

[close]

He may be a great video game developer, but he'll never make it as a good movie director.

[Solo]

Im halfway thru the final act, and I still feel the story is really sinking this ship for me, as previously mentioned. Im wondering if Kojima finally did what he's been talking about for years on MGS4 - stepping back and letting his team create the game, with minimal input/control coming straight from HK himself. I say this because the whole thing feels like some sort of giant fanfic. Now, Im not saying that Koj was ever a Pullitzer Prize worthy writer, but MGS4 is the most un-HK-esque game of the series. It really doesnt feel like a HK game to me.

[The Fake Shemp]

I've been playing this for a bit and I've got to ask: this is really worthy of perfect scores?

This generation sucks for any kind of objective reviews.

[Shuri]

I just finished the first act yesterday, and it dawned on me on little I did actually play.. I hope the other segments feature more gameplay. It was very linear too.

[Rman]

I've been playing this for a bit and I've got to ask: this is really worthy of perfect scores?

This generation sucks for any kind of objective reviews.

I don' think it's deserving of a perfect score, but the fanbase is very vocal and the game has tons of fanservice.  Production values are also beyond anything I've seen. 

[Solo]

I've been playing this for a bit and I've got to ask: this is really worthy of perfect scores?

This generation sucks for any kind of objective reviews.

No, its no more worthy than GTAIV was. Both are really good games, worthy of 8.5-9-ish scores, but not this "perfect 10 best game evar!" crap.

Its not "this generation" though. Its more of a franchise thing if you ask me. There is no real point in following or listening to reviews for any new GTA, Halo, MGS, Mario, or Zelda game. You know they're always going to get a massive circle jerk throughout the industry, deserving or not.

[The Fake Shemp]

So because it has a vocal fanbase, it deserves perfect/high scores?  Good production values don't make a game.  This getting such high scores from the press is just as infuriating as Grand Theft Auto IV, to me personally.  Like, it's not as bad as GTAIV is, but still.

[Solo]

MGS4 shits all over GTAIV, but neither are "perfect" games. Hell, neither are even close to the best game in their own series.

[The Fake Shemp]

Thank you for reiterating what I just said, Solo! :p

[Solo]

Haha, no prob 

[Rman]

So because it has a vocal fanbase, it deserves perfect/high scores?  Good production values don't make a game.  This getting such high scores from the press is just as infuriating as Grand Theft Auto IV, to me personally.  Like, it's not as bad as GTAIV is, but still.

A good majority of the reviewers were ardent fans, tho, explaining the inflated scores.  I'm sure you've noticed this in the reviews from the major gaming sites.  Most of them were extremely gushy.  I don't know, but I've felt that production values have always influenced review scores.  Look at all the watershed moments in video games graphic technology in the last twelve years: SM64, Ridge Racer, MGS1, Gears of War, Crysis and so on.  To say that the graphics would have no effect on their review scores would be foolish.  I know that's not what you are saying, Wilco, but  MGS4's polish did influence reviewers to some degree.

[BlueTsunami]

I really wish he went in another direction with it all. The whole "Military Economy" threat is about the boringest thing ever. Playing up PMCs and alluding to the Military Economy (or just explaining it in optional codecs) would have been better.

Also the end of act III fell kind of flat to me. I'm starting to lose interest in the main plot and I'm more playing on for the gameplay, secret items and to finally find out what happens to Snake.

[Solo]

I would have preferred even more MGS2 wackiness, going even further "out there", than this attempt to stitch everything together and throw in every last character in there, whether they need to be or not (like honestly, why even bring Rose, Mei Ling, Eva, etc. into this?).

[Beezy]

Finished.  All and all its a A-.  I'm satisfied on the whole with it and but it's not favorite in the series.

1>2>4>3

Why is 3 your least favorite MGS game?

[BlueTsunami]

I would have preferred even more MGS2 wackiness, going even further "out there", than this attempt to stitch everything together and throw in every last character in there, whether they need to be or not (like honestly, why even bring Rose, Mei Ling, Eva, etc. into this?).

That too (but I'm sure people would have hated that though :p). This game really does feel "grounded" when you compare it to the past games.

[Rman]

Finished.  All and all its a A-.  I'm satisfied on the whole with it and but it's not favorite in the series.

1>2>4>3

Why is 3 your least favorite MGS game?

The beginning was not well paced, IMHO, meaning it took a while for me to really get into the game.  I also didn't care about learning about Big Boss at all.  MGS was always about Solid Snake for me.  The camo and healing systems were also clunky, limiting the flow of the gameplay.  All in all, I enjoyed it, and the boss battles were stellar, just not my favorite in the series.  I do think it's still one of the best games on the PS2.

[Don Flamenco]

I would have preferred even more MGS2 wackiness, going even further "out there", than this attempt to stitch everything together and throw in every last character in there, whether they need to be or not (like honestly, why even bring Rose, Mei Ling, Eva, etc. into this?).

he's just trying to please fans to try and make it very final, so he just stitched everything in the series together.   Besides, he's a programmer, he doesn't have a background in writing. 

He pretty much just strings together his favorite movies, adds current issues revolving around science (he's always been on the bleeding edge in that sense) and military, some fucked up conflict in each character to complicate things, a talking hand, and voila-- you have an MGS game.

I mean the whole thing with Snake is turning out to look a lot like

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Blade Runner.  He's an "artificial" super soldier with a time limit.  I wouldn't be surprised if his last words were "time to die."

[close]

but don't respond to that with anything past the beginning of Act 3.  because as corny as MGS is, I'd be pissed if it were spoiled

[Positive Touch]

he kinda had a chance to make a metal gear movie with that movie disk that came with subsistence.  it was really fucking awful tho.

[Don Flamenco]

that's the frustrating thing.  He obviously has an eye for the camera.  The way scenes are "shot" in MGS games are usually pretty awesome.  Even the story could be great, if only the fat could be trimmed (and some distinguished mentally-challenged elements are cut out.)

but he needs to hire a real writing and editing staff.  I wonder if he just doesn't want to throw away work.  I imagine you can't develop a whole complicated scene like, say, the briefing before act 3, and then cut 30 minutes of it.  You can't just tell the actors to try it again. Who knows how much money and time it took to animate Otacon gasping and looking nervous...despite that that whole exchange between him and Naomi could've been expressed in like 30 seconds.

[duckman2000]

So, I haven't seen a ton of Japanese movies (other than the odd animated feature), so this is purely based on my experience with game cinematics, but do the Japanese simply have a vastly different ideals regarding proper emphasis and good pacing is? From playing the previous Metal Gear games with their drawn out cut-scenes filled with excruciating technical talk to the recent Twilight Princess with its horrible pacing and odd emphasis, I'm starting to wonder if it's really just a cultural barrier here. DCharlie?

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

So curiosity got the better of me and I'm playing MGS4 for some unknown reason and I'm getting just as pissed off with this game as I had with the previous ones.  Dumb story, wonky controls, boring gameplay....ugh.  God damnit, I must be fucking distinguished mentally-challenged - I knew I hated MGS yet here I am playing this bullshit.

If I hear another character spout off about "the military economy" one more time Wayne Brady is gonna have to choke a bitch.

[duckman2000]

So curiosity got the better of me and I'm playing MGS4 for some unknown reason and I'm getting just as pissed off with this game as I had with the previous ones.  Dumb story, wonky controls, boring gameplay....ugh.  God damnit, I must be fucking distinguished mentally-challenged - I knew I hated MGS yet here I am playing this bullshit.

If I hear another character spout off about "the military economy" one more time Wayne Brady is gonna have to choke a bitch.

See, I'm trying to be wise and stay away. I'm not on good terms with MGS. I enjoyed the setting and presentation of MGS3, but that's it. But the presentation and visual [industrial] design here makes for an attractive force that it's hard to fend off. I want to play it just to bask in it's Gekko awesome, but I know I'll probably have rolled my eyes out of their sockets before I even get that far. God damn it.

[WrikaWrek]

I've been playing this for a bit and I've got to ask: this is really worthy of perfect scores?

This generation sucks for any kind of objective reviews.

I don' think it's deserving of a perfect score, but the fanbase is very vocal and the game has tons of fanservice.  Production values are also beyond anything I've seen. 

True that.

I hope they tone it down for MGS5, but not to much to the point of it becoming irrelevant. I want the story to be a big part of the experience, like it was in MGS1, it certainly doesn't need to be such a big part of the experience like it is in MGs2 and MGs4 though.

wonky controls, boring gameplay....ugh.

Wonky controls? No. Not even a matter of opinion really. Boring gameplay? Well, it's certainly a taste thing. So i don't blame you there.

[WrikaWrek]

how is it not? I've only played the MGO beta and the controls were a pain in the ass. I've found previous MGS games to be on the fiddly side too.

I thought MGO BEta was pretty shit. I hated the feel of the game, everything.

MGS4 single player controls much more fluidly. Seriously, i was one of those that kept saying "Mgs3 controls like shit, etc etc etc", with the fegs always saying "It's mgs, the gameplay is amazing, it plays like this".

MGS4? It does what you want. The camera is great, the over the shoulder aiming works like Graw, the CQC is more responsive and easier to handle, the game is just really responsive overall, the octo camo is easy as hell to use, etc

It's not wonky at all, and anyone who says that is full of shit basically. Say what you want about the game, the controls are good, really good.

[Don Flamenco]

So, I haven't seen a ton of Japanese movies (other than the odd animated feature), so this is purely based on my experience with game cinematics, but do the Japanese simply have a vastly different ideals regarding proper emphasis and good pacing is? From playing the previous Metal Gear games with their drawn out cut-scenes filled with excruciating technical talk to the recent Twilight Princess with its horrible pacing and odd emphasis, I'm starting to wonder if it's really just a cultural barrier here. DCharlie?

there are certainly differences in presentation and style in popular mediums in Japan, but not really on the same level as games. 

Look at games and anime-- the people who make them don't go to school to learn how to write.  They're often geeks who are just as obsessed with the medium as their fans.  The goal of each medium isn't necessarily to tell a good story either.  They just want to make a fun game or a cool looking anime and then shoe-horn in the story (or quickly come up with a story, then design cool characters around it.)  I think there's a certain style of game writing that has developed over time though (since programmers have been writing stories to their games since the beginning and anime has to have a story...even hentai) and it has won over crowds of nerds.  There's no shortage of people who think MGS or Naruto or Ghost in the Shell or Final Fantasy etc. have amazing stories, but to normal people, each one of these shows or games commits serious pacing/plot/script atrocities. Let's not get started on the voice talent they usually hire. Interestingly enough, I think there's an expected aesthetic for English dubs in these things too--either that or they always hire the same people.  It really shows when they hire good voice actors (see any Miyazaki film.)

anyway, Kojima is kind of a special case--he's also very into movies and is on the forefront of making cinematic games.  but back to square one--he didn't go to school to learn how to write or direct. Still--the man's got an infinite budget and his games sell, so no one is going to stop him or say "hey, you know, we don't have to talk about nanomachines for an hour here."

There's a nice long MGS-style analysis for you, hope it made sense  
I'm not saying there aren't odd Japanese works, certainly no shortage of that, or that many Japanese writers or directors don't have their own styles, but games and anime are on their own level. 

[Shuri]

So far ACT2 feels like Rambo4: The Game. I'm finding m60 and other huge weapons and i'm showering ennemies with bullets. I used "stealth" maybe once  to take down those snipers on a hill, then used mortars on the base. Act1 was all about stealth, act2 is all action, except for the beginning of the act with the camps and the prisoners.

It's getting a bit lame; also what the fuck, I wanted to show a previous save to a friend who was here this morning, and the fuckign thing wanted to re-install act1. This is really lame.

I'll be honest, I have NO idea why they went the install road and couldnt have some sort of dynamic seamless loading here; because frankly.. the graphics are great, but having this awkward 3 minutes install between acts makes me wonder what the hell they are installing, and is bluray really that slow..

[Solo]

Beat it. 1 > 2 > 4 > 3 for me. Does most things really well, but stumbles with a few others. Good lord though, I find myself saying this after each MGS game gets released: best character models/animation EVAR.

Also, I think my favorite part was the final mano a mano Liquid/Snake tilt. Very bonerific.

[Rman]

So far ACT2 feels like Rambo4: The Game. I'm finding m60 and other huge weapons and i'm showering ennemies with bullets. I used "stealth" maybe once  to take down those snipers on a hill, then used mortars on the base. Act1 was all about stealth, act2 is all action, except for the beginning of the act with the camps and the prisoners.

It's getting a bit lame; also what the fuck, I wanted to show a previous save to a friend who was here this morning, and the fuckign thing wanted to re-install act1. This is really lame.

I'll be honest, I have NO idea why they went the install road and couldnt have some sort of dynamic seamless loading here; because frankly.. the graphics are great, but having this awkward 3 minutes install between acts makes me wonder what the hell they are installing, and is bluray really that slow.

Make a sandwich.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

j/k

[close]

[Positive Touch]

just beat act 4, and it really looks like the first half will be much better than the second.  The stealth sections are unsatisfying compared to the scripted insanity in acts 1 & 2, and the story scenes now are a lot of drawn-out action sequences that aren't very exciting.  The gameplay parts at the end of acts 3 and 4 are rad, tho, and the boss fights are still intense.  The game just doesn't seem as inventive as the previous games did, and so it ends up coming off as a little run-of-the-mill.

[Don Flamenco]

So far ACT2 feels like Rambo4: The Game. I'm finding m60 and other huge weapons and i'm showering ennemies with bullets. I used "stealth" maybe once  to take down those snipers on a hill, then used mortars on the base. Act1 was all about stealth, act2 is all action, except for the beginning of the act with the camps and the prisoners.

that's the beauty of it...I used stealth all through act 2 and it was fucking awesome. 

people don't seem to remember you could run and gun through all of Subsistence as well.  especially with the Patriot    3 and 4 are just open ended like that.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Good lord though, I find myself saying this after each MGS game gets released: best character models/animation EVAR.

I'll agree with that.  I'm currently in the middle of act 3 and some of the cinemas so far has had me doing a double take because of how well done they are.  I've seriously mistaken game engine stuff for FMV (like the opening of Act 2), it's that good.  The actual in-game graphics are quite a bit less impressive but it can still look rather nice at times.

It's not wonky at all, and anyone who says that is full of shit basically. Say what you want about the game, the controls are good, really good.

They're better than the previous MGS games but only marginally so.  It's still needlessly complicated with button presses along with pushing the stick in a certain direction to perform the most mundane tasks.  And if your cover is ever blown and you need to fight, the game doesn't make feel like you're some super badass actually capable of taking care of business, it's more like an ice skating distinguished mentally-challenged fellow that's crawling backwards looking for a dumpster to hide in.  Why Kojima continuously builds upon this broken control scheme is beyond me.  Just throw it away and take a lesson from other games like Thief or Splinter Cell hell and why not Uncharted why you're at it.  I can't begin to tell you how much more enjoyable this series would be for me and many others if they just fixed the fucking controls.

[Crushed]

Why Kojima continuously builds upon this broken control scheme is beyond me.  Just throw it away and take a lesson from other games like Thief or Splinter Cell

Uh, I think that's what MGS4 is doing.

[TVC15]

Ranking the acts:

2 > 1 > 3 > 4 > 5

Act 2 is pretty freakin awesome all around, same goes for the first act.  Act 3 has a pretty boring first half, and the cut scene is a toss up (you'll like it if you enjoy the story, otherwise zzzzzz).  Act 4 is only really good for the fan service factor and the boss fights.  Act 5 is just barely there to begin with.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Why Kojima continuously builds upon this broken control scheme is beyond me.  Just throw it away and take a lesson from other games like Thief or Splinter Cell

Uh, I think that's what MGS4 is doing.

Needs more of it then.

[WrikaWrek]

It's not wonky at all, and anyone who says that is full of shit basically. Say what you want about the game, the controls are good, really good.

They're better than the previous MGS games but only marginally so.  It's still needlessly complicated with button presses along with pushing the stick in a certain direction to perform the most mundane tasks.  And if your cover is ever blown and you need to fight, the game doesn't make feel like you're some super badass actually capable of taking care of business, it's more like an ice skating distinguished mentally-challenged fellow that's crawling backwards looking for a dumpster to hide in.  Why Kojima continuously builds upon this broken control scheme is beyond me.  Just throw it away and take a lesson from other games like Thief or Splinter Cell hell and why not Uncharted why you're at it.  I can't begin to tell you how much more enjoyable this series would be for me and many others if they just fixed the fucking controls.

No, just no. Splinter Cell controls no better than this. You must be a piece of shit at games. Press X once to crouch, twice to crawl, press triangle to stick to objects/walls, press L1 for over the shoulder aim, etc etc. As far as the shooting goes it controls like Ghost Recon, as far as sneaking goes it controls more like Splinter Cell than previous MGSs, etc etc

And i love how you throw the "super badass" part in there and then mention Splinter Cell and Thief? Are you kidding me? Seriously because i can engage in action like i never could in either of those games.

Seriously you must be handicapped or some shit if you think MGS doesn't control well, or even below Splinter Cell. Stop spreading this bullshit about the controls man.

[Draft]

Controls are clunky. Only MGSfags disagree.

I'm halfway(?) through Act 2

spoiler (click to show/hide)

just got my physical

[close]

and I'm already skipping cutscenes. Naomi and Drebin both pulled the same MGS shit I hate so much. Blahblahblah oh and now here is a 5 minute lecture on nanomachines.

[TVC15]

The story is just chronically stuip all around.  Kojima doesn't do a very good job of painting the state of the world.  Not that he does much better in previous games, but at least in those we can safely assume that the world of the games is basically identical/very similar to the real modern world.  In MGS4, we're given the impression that the world has drastically changed, but we never really see that.  To make things worse, the story has a global scale, rather than the small, isolated scales of previous games, where the actions of the story would be unknown to anyone that hadn't taken part in the story.  MGS4 instead brings us a story of Ocelot trying to achieve world domination, and it just feels silly--even sillier than games have seen in the past.  And unlike the previous game, Snake Eater, it doesn't appear to be paying homage to movies or anything, so it's kind of difficult to excuse the tone.  Here, when the game goes over the top, it seems labored and stupid, rather than self-knowingly winking and silly.  

Also, moreso than in previous games (except for 2) it felt like Kojima didn't really know when to stop when it came to cutscenes.  They really go on for way too long, and more than once, I was saying to myself "why are characters saying so many lines that basically mean nothing?  Is Kojima in love with the sound of their voices?"  So many minutes and lines of cutscenes are wasted on a nonsensical, boring story (we've gone from nuclear explosions to zzzzz naughty computer AIs) told by characters that were never informed about the whole brevity being the soul of wit thing.

But whether or not you buy and don't but concerning the stupid/silly ratio of the story, here's the number one reason why the narrative is a failure:  it's just not very good in comparison to previous games.  Previous MGS games have always arisen in the neverending discussion about whether video games are art or not.  If you think MGS4 is a great example, all around, of video gaming as a medium, and you think it is fit to be held alongside any piece of art anywhere, then video game forums probably are the only place you should be heard.  lol.

[Crushed]

Controls are clunky. Only MGSfags disagree.

I suppose even gods like Draft must be wrong at times.

[WrikaWrek]

Controls are clunky. Only MGSfags disagree.

Ok fuck that. Why are MGS4 controls clunky?

[Draft]

It's still got the same issue the series has had since 2 with the whole crouching/laying down/rolling/standing up mechanic all being tied to the same button. You can't roll into a crouch, you can't stand up while crouch running without doing a roll, you get knocked over by a bomb and you hammer on buttons to get up and then you DO get up and immediately lay down again. For a game that makes you crouch and lay down as often as MGS does, it would be nice if the inputs were more intuitive.

I'm also really confused by the wall hug mechanic, especially against low cover. Sometimes he wall hugs a waist high rock but DOESN'T crouch? So in essence I just stand there getting shot until I hit X.

MGS4 seems better than the previous ones, at least. I have yet to accidentally go from lay down to crouch by brushing a wall, and the aiming system I have no complaints with.

The real, pervasive issue with MGS controls is that there's so much stuff to do that eventually you're working with input mechanics that are like, "OK, click L3, then swivel it once in a circle. No, counterclockwise. OK now hold R1, press R2 gently, and click L3 again." I put up with it because eventually you do run out of buttons and I can appreciate a man who's ambitious enough to not cut out gameplay mechanics for the sake of people who are missing fingers. But at the same time you've got to put aside the goggles for a second and recognize the superiority of a game like Splinter Cell or RE4 that packs a ton of moves and mechanics into like 3 buttons, with one main button being used 90% of the time.

[WrikaWrek]

It's still got the same issue the series has had since 2 with the whole crouching/laying down/rolling/standing up mechanic all being tied to the same button. You can't roll into a crouch, you can't stand up while crouch running without doing a roll, you get knocked over by a bomb and you hammer on buttons to get up and then you DO get up and immediately lay down again. For a game that makes you crouch and lay down as often as MGS does, it would be nice if the inputs were more intuitive.

Wow, you managed to find some of those really hilariously little flaws hun? You can't stand up while crouch running, omfg....and you get laid down again, huh why exactly? Never happened to me. And you can shoot from the ground, so next time instead of wanting to get up like nothing's happening, maybe pull out your gun and shoot the motherfucker? For someone that manages to fight his way through NG 2 problems, i would've expected a bit more from you.

I'm also really confused by the wall hug mechanic, especially against low cover. Sometimes he wall hugs a waist high rock but DOESN'T crouch? So in essence I just stand there getting shot until I hit X.

Oh man, that just breaks the game. Never happened to me either.


The real, pervasive issue with MGS controls is that there's so much stuff to do that eventually you're working with input mechanics that are like, "OK, click L3, then swivel it once in a circle. No, counterclockwise. OK now hold R1, press R2 gently, and click L3 again." I put up with it because eventually you do run out of buttons and I can appreciate a man who's ambitious enough to not cut out gameplay mechanics for the sake of people who are missing fingers.

Really? When do those things happen? I fail to remember having to do all those button combos to do these "tasks". Get new material, or specify.

Seriously blown away at the pissing on MGS4 controls, when if it suffers from problems, it's the same problems other games suffer, and i don't see anybody saying shit.

[Narag]

MGS4's controls are more intuitive than previous entries but still have some faults.

[WrikaWrek]

MGS4's controls are more intuitive than previous entries but still have some faults.

Every game has faults, but to call MGS4 controls wonky, and say that a game like Splinter Cell or tank Res4 has better controls, that just bullshit.

[Draft]

Damn son you're fired up.

I didn't say the controls break the game I said they were clunky, And that only MGSfags disagree. And apparently disagree vehemently.

It's funny you mention NG2, because I would put MGS controls in the same box I put NG camera. Problematic. Could be better. But easily worked through with a little practice.

As for my funny example, I always go back to The Boss fight in MGS3. There are moments, sneaking through the flowers, popping your head up, readying a weapon, firing that weapon, where you are pressing no less than 5 buttons simultaneously, and that doesn't include using the analog sticks to aim or move.

[WrikaWrek]

As for my funny example, I always go back to The Boss fight in MGS3. There are moments, sneaking through the flowers, popping your head up, readying a weapon, firing that weapon, where you are pressing no less than 5 buttons simultaneously, and that doesn't include using the analog sticks to aim or move.

Yes. In Mgs3.

We are talking MGs4. This conversation is actually making me pissed, i believe you guys are trying way fucking hard to piss on MGs4 controls, when it controls as good as any other game of its kind out there. I don't understand where it's coming from.

[Draft]

Yes, it clearly is making you pissed.

Aside from the aiming, I don't see what's so different from MGS3.

Another thing that I'm starting to struggle with- can't sidle basically anything? Seems like a cliff or wall has to be about knee height for Snake to be able to vault it. Am I just hitting the wrong buttons? Or is it because he's old?

[Narag]

Fuckers changed my cqc button too.

[Draft]

It took me like 2 hours to figure out how to CQC, but mainly because when I couldn't punch or kick right away, I just started shooting people.

Maybe the problem is me