Far Cry 2 thread of jamming guns

[duckman2000]

It's a shame then that they seem to consider the successful execution of their ideas to be of less importance.

That's what sequels are for.  I've enjoyed the betas more than enough to a) justify the purchase price and b) help subsidize the eventual, vastly improved sequels.

This is a sequel, you know. And really, some of the more blatant issues aren't new, to Ubi or even to the Far Cry brand. I'm giving this one a pass of sorts because the world is so large and there are so many ways the skirmishes can pan out, but I also don't think any of the existing issues will be worked on much for Far Cry 3. It's just not how Ubi works.

[dammitmattt]

[This is a sequel, you know. And really, some of the more blatant issues aren't new, to Ubi or even to the Far Cry brand. I'm giving this one a pass of sorts because the world is so large and there are so many ways the skirmishes can pan out, but I also don't think any of the existing issues will be worked on much for Far Cry 3. It's just not how Ubi works.

You know that's not fair.  This is a completely new team and the only similarity that Far Cry 2 has with the first game is the name.  For all intents and purposes, it's a brand new game.

But yeah, future items to work on for FC3 are the AI, mission variety, more neutral NPCs, larger scale battles, and better incorporating vehicles into combat.  FC3 could really be something special.

[duckman2000]

I guess it's rather telling of the sameness of the missions when they actually recycle the briefing. Good going making it more obvious than it already was, Ubi. I'm hoping this next one is a bit different (first radio tower mission), but I'm not too optimistic.

[Fragamemnon]

I did three of the same missions last night in a row for the arms merchant and didn't have a problem with the repetition. It wasn't a big deal, each task put me in a different place to fight and that's good enough for me.   I don't care if I'm doing the same thing each time, because really all the interesting stuff generally happens on my way to the location.

I am totally rollin' in true African style now, with an AK-47, MAC-10, and a RPG launcher. So far I've yet to use a weapon that didn't feel perfectly punchy and effective and sounded great. The firefights are pretty chaotic on the hardcore setting and I'm totally digging how the designers didn't opt for a stupid cover system to appease the booger-eatin' gamepad tools and instead stuck with bread and butter FPS gaming.

btw this game is totally not a sequel. It doesn't resemble the original far cry at all in terms of actual game design, setting, or mechanics. which is a good thing, since the original far cry wasn't nearly as good as this game is.

[Eel O'Brian]

what's wrong with cover systems in fps games

medal of honor airborne had an awesome cover system

[duckman2000]

Medal of Honor Airborne also had significantly less buggy opposition. If you thought the A.I. in the original Far Cry was buggy, then you've seen nothing yet. And while there are no "I'm gonna shoot you in the face," there are plenty of equally comical instances of "combat chatter," such as soldiers conspiring to flank you, despite there actually only being one of them alive.

[Eel O'Brian]

oh, i just meant frag's hatred of fps cover systems in general

i tend to like them if they're done well

i still can't understand why they won't put leaning in the console versions of COD games

[Fragamemnon]

what's wrong with cover systems in fps games

medal of honor airborne had an awesome cover system

leaning is OK, if that's a sort of cover system.

I just don't like the overdone "pan the camera out and around a corner, line up the shot, BAM IN THE FACE LOLZ" that I've seen in some console ports before. Seems like cheating, if you don't want to get hit then you shouldn't be able to get a bead on the thing you want to shoot either.

[duckman2000]

Oh, I just wanted to rant a bit more about the A.I. in FC2. As for cover fire, I tend to get annoyed by a lack of cover fire system mostly if the opposition or my own team mates are capable of pulling off cover moves, while I'm left with duck and hide as my most tactical option for battlefield survival.

[Eel O'Brian]

exactly, like in COD when i look over at my squadmate and he's ducking and jiving around a box picking off dudes and i get to...crouch

[Van Cruncheon]

I did three of the same missions last night in a row for the arms merchant and didn't have a problem with the repetition. It wasn't a big deal, each task put me in a different place to fight and that's good enough for me.   I don't care if I'm doing the same thing each time, because really all the interesting stuff generally happens on my way to the location.

I am totally rollin' in true African style now, with an AK-47, MAC-10, and a RPG launcher. So far I've yet to use a weapon that didn't feel perfectly punchy and effective and sounded great. The firefights are pretty chaotic on the hardcore setting and I'm totally digging how the designers didn't opt for a stupid cover system to appease the booger-eatin' gamepad tools and instead stuck with bread and butter FPS gaming.

btw this game is totally not a sequel. It doesn't resemble the original far cry at all in terms of actual game design, setting, or mechanics. which is a good thing, since the original far cry wasn't nearly as good as this game is.

i don't mind this kinda repetition at all, either, because like you said, the missions are in different locations, and it's a wonderfully violent little journey en route to each target. i like plowing a jeep into a guard station, sliding into the turret, and laying down the carnage blackwater-style. the guns are super punchy, the enemies have hilarious dialogue, and the cars handle perfectly for my needs. good times!

[duckman2000]

In some ways it really is a sequel, though. The combat and driving, that's all the same, only in the case of combat it actually seems quite a bit worse, with the odd spot of brilliance. Far Cry wasn't open world, but the open world value here is a bit tempered by some odd decisions. For FC3, it'd be nice to see some basic climbing abilities added to the mix, as some of the boundaries here feel a bit silly.

Still, it's mighty enjoyable getting from point A to point B, and the vehicles handle real well. I had an incident where I was chasing zebras, and just as I was about to run one over, my kid peeked over my shoulder and said "oooh, zeeeb'as!" She hated me for a while after that.

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, some basic climbing abilities would be nice, if only to get to advantageous siege positions.

[Fragamemnon]

I'll agree with the climbing changes. At times the game does have sort of a labyrinth of unclimbable canyons thing going on. Not a big deal, just sort of annoying when trying to get to source of the blinking green light or to get a nice spot to shoot a propane tank in a camp of baddies.

I'd like to see a sequel, if they make one, get some more RPG elements for more character customization. Right now you are essentially defined by just your gear, it would be nice to have a bit more flexibility than that.

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, that would be awesome -- some stats for accuracy, or evasion, or stamina would be a nice simple start

[duckman2000]

In addition to climbing, some cave systems would be nice.

[demi]

In addition to climbing, some cave systems would be nice.

hey you know i've had this quirky idea for a game that's thats a FPS and has RPG elements and caves. but here's a twist. we'll make a post-apocalyptic setting.

[Eel O'Brian]

add a dog and you've got gold

[demi]

REVOLUTIONARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[duckman2000]

add a dog and you've got gold

Baboon > dog

[duckman2000]

Alright, I think the game just crossed the line in terms of how buggy it can be while still being enjoyable. First, I get stuck in a crevice because one of the destructible planks turn out to be impossible to break. I guess I broke them out of sequence or something, and while it let me get inside, I couldn't get out. Second, one of the safehouses refuses to unlock on the basis of me not having killed the determined amount of guards. Only of course there are no more guards. OK, that's happened before; sometimes they then magically appear out of thin air if I wait long enough, but not this time. So I decide to just proceed with the mission, and reach the waterfront when this happens.



Takes up the entire screen, I guess it's a normal map or something for one of the waterlilies. I can still hear myself move, and shots are coming through loud and clear, but that thing refuses to budge. Attempt to go into the menu, which is now bright pink. Eventually, I was forced to shut the whole game down.

I've been pretty forgiving of the rough edges, but this sequence, all within 20 minutes of playing, is a bit much.

[duckman2000]

On the upside, that waterfall area (Goku Falls or whatever) was real pretty and offered a nice little firefight. Even better, as I got to experience it twice on account of enemies magically respawning, must have hit some trigger 20 feet past it.

[cool breeze]

So far (only 4% in) I'm enjoying this game, but it's one of those games with a lot of flaws that still somehow balances out to be really enjoyable because of those high moments.

Things I don't like
-graphics style is way too dusty.  I know it's Africa and all, but I don't really like it in the day time.  Night time is good
-AI is incredibly dumb
-simple travel takes too long and there is too much of it
-ok, malaria is stupid
-the cars (all two of them) were apparently built by the chinese because it's up in flames when it hits a rock
-not enough cars randomly drive on the road when you are without some and this can make travel even worse when you need a ride.  although this could actually prove annoying when actually driving, but I'm sure they could have planned it so that cars drive by when you weren't in a car
-feels like you're stuck in a giant maze without shortcuts because of all the mountains

Still, other than those minor problems, this game is pretty great.  My favorite thing to do is snipe an entire camp from some hill, then walk in and see some people in last stand waiting for my machete to be driven through their heart

and the AI is really, really bad.  I thought STALKER was bad, but these guys aren't even fun to fight if you go into it like a straight shoot out, but luckily this type of game lets you have alternate ways of approaching it, so it isn't a problem yet.

btw, of the two ubi games I've played today, this is better than PoP

and I hate that it doesn't stack quick saves

[duckman2000]

The best approach is sniping, or just using the flame thrower to make it a quick battle. The more drawn out and complex the firefights, the worse it gets.

Speaking of cars and combat, it's pretty comical when someone comes ramming you out of the blue, and not in an armed jeep, but some cruddy compact. After going straight for you (does everyone in the game really hate me that much?), the driver gets out, stands still and say "huh?"

As for the malaria, it's another one of those botched ideas (along with the "realism" of digging out bullets, or using syrettes). It's not really a problem, but it feels like one of those ideas that probably sounded good to the team, was worked on for an hour, and then inserted into the game in raw form.

And yeah, nighttime is the best. I like the daytime too, though. Morning and dusk can kiss my ass.

[y2kev]

I have 20% done and I am really enjoying the game. Gorgeous shadows. But this has the worst VA of like any western game in the past 5 years.

The spanish chick said "bueno" to me as "buyano" before.

[duckman2000]

Not made any better by the ridiculously stupid enemy chatter.

Where is he - there he is - I think we lost him - what does he want - there he is - I think we lost him - who is he - I think we lost him - aaargh (completely spontaneous, mind you) - something in Afrikaans - I think we lost him - let's flank him - I think we lost him - we must find him - something in Afrikaans - there he is

And that's before the fight even starts. Definitely a sniping game.

[y2kev]

my "best buddy" is quarbani and i can't take his accent. when he calls i hang up. can i kill him and then have someone else offer to help? he's such a douchebag.

[duckman2000]

I don't know, you'd probably get Clyde. 

Speaking of which, what exactly is the motivation of your battle ally? Is this explained later, because I really don't fucking get why they are always saving me. Maybe if the game asked me to come save them from time to time, but that hasn't happened yet. And for the one mission I was supposed to take on together with my BFF (he told me to meet him in some location), he wasn't even there.

[cool breeze]

what is this best buddy thing about? some guy I saved is my 'best buddy', but I can't seem to call him up and all that.  Is there another way you take out your cellphone or access them?

I think for Far Cry 3 (if they make it) they should keep up the whole immersion focus they are doing, but they really need to tone down some aspects so they don't feel like wonky game mechanics.  I also think they should adopt an improved style of the Perfect Dark Zero weapon carrying.  I thought that had potential with the different slot size per different weapons.

[duckman2000]

He calls you.

[y2kev]

Basically you get a guy who is your FRIEND in the beginning of the game who will call you with "alternate paths." I've now tried 2 games on the 360 and 1 on the PS3 (nice port, btw, very happy with it, beautiful shadows) and EVERY TIME I've gotten QUARBANI. I can't take this piece of shit. His voice is like being attacked by an annoying waiter at a Pakistani restaurant.

Far Cry 2's immersion stuff is cool but goes a little too far. It's taken the three attempts for it to really click with me. It doesn't help that I got this for 25 bucks and for some reason I always feel a little more comfortable on the DS, even for FPS. Something about the way symmetry works in my brain.

Anyway, yeah, not bad. I just can't believe how horrific the voice acting is.

"Did you see these guyswho is this guy? He is not fooling around? What. I don't know. That's nonsensewhere is he?"

[cool breeze]

I'm playing it on the PC and it does look nice, but I only have things on very high instead of ultra high.  Well, it would run in ultra high just fine, but not incredibly smooth and with v-sync.

and I guess the buddy stuff is only for official missions then? I did the missions where you destroy the cargo truck to unlock guns and no one called me.  Those missions are really cool because you can watch the route of the trucks, then set up a road block and ambush them on a turret.

[duckman2000]

More often than not, it really does feel hamhanded. As if they came up with these ideas, and either liked them so much that they refused to budge no matter what anyone said about it, or for one reason or the other never put any real effort into balancing it.

[cool breeze]

seriously tho, malaria? why?

I usually like absurd things like that in games, but this is just stupid.  It's not even handled well since you just spaz out randomly until you take your pills.  At most it should have been some condition where the pills were only required if you didn't get regular rest, but don't make the only solution pills you take and the only sign when to take them when you are actually spazzing out.

[y2kev]

It does happen VERY rarely. I mean like once every hour or so. And you can not take them and just last for a while if you want I guess. But I've heard horror stories-- like getting a malaria attack in the water and just drowning 

[cool breeze]

don't consoles lack quicksave? that would suuuuck

[y2kev]

yes, they do. saving takes like 30 seconds and you can't do it wherever you like. sux.

[duckman2000]

Yeah, it's not so common as to make it an obstacle, but it feels both unnecessary and poorly developed. We know, we're in Africa. Zebras, wildebeests, got it. If they wanted to make that any clearer, they should have just included more black people.

[duckman2000]

yes, they do. saving takes like 30 seconds and you can't do it wherever you like. sux.

If it's any help, I just realized that I can save anywhere. I thought you had to get to safe houses. 

[y2kev]

That's the other underdeveloped aspect of the game. You have these factions, but why do any of them matter? You are never backed up by any faction (they explicitly spell it out every damn mission), but there's no way to tell factions apart in the world. Everybody looks identical.

...and that's not a racial comment.

[duckman2000]

And why do they all hate me, to the point where they will go out of their way (literally, away from the road and straight onto the savanna) to kill me, on sight?

Most interesting is that the two factions have their bases in two separate sides of the same very small village. Machine gun nests, armed soldiers, and not a civilian in sight. It has a touch of Invisible War in that respect.

[y2kev]

oh wow, yeah.   

i understand there is a ceasefire, but why exactly? the village is JUST the church and the two factions

[cool breeze]

Few games get actual factions right.  MGS4 and Mercs do it at a rudimentary level, but STALKER Clear Sky does it really well.

[y2kev]

stalker clear sky coming to a console near you

[duckman2000]

That's the other underdeveloped aspect of the game. You have these factions, but why do any of them matter? You are never backed up by any faction (they explicitly spell it out every damn mission), but there's no way to tell factions apart in the world. Everybody looks identical.

...and that's not a racial comment.

Honestly, I don't think there was anything racist in my comment either. I don't think it's a stretch to wonder why an African nation is mostly made up of, well, every other ethnicity on the planet. I'm assuming they were either playing it safe (what with RE5 taking a beating and all) or were trying to be respectful, but it feels pretty silly. They place an awful lot of emphasis on the setting and on portraying a typically African conflict that involves weapons smuggling, diamond trade and mercenary action, but it feels really safely engineered. Between that and the lack of evidence of the human (civilian, if there is such a designation in African conflicts) suffering that is supposedly the reason I want this guy dead, I wonder how smart it was to push the African conflict theme as hard as they did.

[y2kev]

Finally! Just shot quarbani dead. he was like AGH WAHT AT YOU ROUASD and i was like POW POW POW

[duckman2000]

Did you get a replacement? And have you saved the guy who crashed the plane yet?

[y2kev]

The guy who crashed the plane was Quarbani...if I decided to help him (I did on the 360, not here). I didn't get a replacement but I don't need one. I just need the rescue ready buddy.

[duckman2000]

Oh. I rescued my buddy who was held hostage in some house somewhere. Then I rescued some dude in a plane (the Albanian). Haven't seen that guy around since. Maybe he's at Mike's Bar.

[cool breeze]

  the flamethrower/general flame effects are amazing in this game

biggest complaint I have is how annoying traveling is.  First buddy mission I did was the guy in the bar telling me to go more than half way across the map to grab some documents, so it went something like this:  Drive to bus station, get attacked on the way because everyone wants to kill me for some reason, get to bus bus station and take off for closest area to objective.  After this I then need to drive again to the objective area, and again I'm attacked by several random people on the way, then I get malaria, then I finally arrive there to kill people and grab the documents only to find out that I need to make the same trip back and deal with the same shit again.  Also, because each car is a piece of shit I can't just out drive the enemy since they shoot me and the car breaks down, and it's not like I can avoid them since there aren't any shortcuts at all.  It is so exhausting to drive travel from point to point.  I mean, what happened to the Taxi driver from the intro? let me hire him to take me to where I need to go? and why do they still try to kill me when I'm in a civilian car?

[duckman2000]

the flamethrower/general flame effects are amazing in this game

Really? I thought the flamethrower looked alright, at best. I like that it actually sets stuff on fire though, and the propagation of fire is damned hot, but the effect is less breathtaking than those first off-screen demo vids suggested. What's worse is that it really highlights the brutally incompetent A.I., what with some dudes just standing right next to an emerging fire, go "huh? and proceed to be consumed by flames. It's still one of the better flamethrowers around though.

[duckman2000]

Nighttime cruising for diamonds and chasing wildebeest

Daytime

[cool breeze]

I think it's the flame effect that really sells it; itt actually looks wild with it blowing in the wind and all that.  The actual flamethrower itself isn't fun to use because of how short the range is.

And the Jeep license is hilarious because the game makes the Jeep cars seem as shitty as the poor ass chinese ones.

Also, I wish this game had an assault rifle with scope.  The best I've seen so far is is the barrett 50 cal that is 5 shot and basically semi-auto, but it zooms too much to be practical in medium to close range.  I still have my mac 10 with me, but that isn't very good in mid range either.  I need to find a balance in weapons to use.

[y2kev]

I finished act 1.

[cool breeze]

btw, the buddy stuff is a bit stupid.  I grab an official mission the hippie Israeli prick calls me up and is like "hey instead of doing that lets do something for me so I can go do pot in India or some shit" but you need to obey to get upgrades for your places.

[y2kev]

How is the VA THAT bad? Did ubi run out of money after spending it all on this luscious engine that they won't use again?

[duckman2000]

I just assaulted a fort, assassinated a king, took a ring off of the dead king's finger and trekked back through various enemy encampments to deliver the ring to the prince. My reward? A fucking SUV.

[cool breeze]

I did that one, but you're forgetting one thing, it's a JEEP SUV OMG REAL PRODUCTS

 

[duckman2000]

A bit like the Blackhawk™ stuff in Ghost Recon

[Eel O'Brian]

so they have gps systems in all the vehicles, and cell phones with coverage everywhere, but they're still stuck with tape recorders from 1979