bebpo being crazy, talky, in denial and maybe at the end a better person

[Bebpo]

moving out of the pics thread.

Edit: Bebpo, you're not fucking crazy. But if you are, you just need to find someone as crazy as you to spend your days (and nights  ) with.

This how I've felt my whole life.  Which is why every girl I've ever become emotionally invested in has been crazy and why I say I have problems getting along with normal girls.  I feel like I'm crazy and only someone who is at least partially crazy like me can understand me and I'd love to understand them and enjoy each other's craziness.

Unfortunately this has never ended well :x

[Bebpo]

There's a possibility that you can't gauge how interesting someone is during 15 minutes of ice-breaker conversation at cocktail hour, so stick around for a bit and ask fun, non-generic, and opinion-oriented questions.  Everyone loves to feel like someone is interested in what they have to say - that's why we have Facebook.   Plus, some of those "uninteresting" girls might surprise you. : )

  I think if drinking works for you, then get a little buzzed so you can be conscious of how and what you're doing differently in that situation. 

You know, I've never thought of non-generic, opinion-orientated questions at first meet.  I feel like if I say "so what do you think of kevin smith films?" I'll get a..."huh, whose that?"; or "are you glad we are bombing the moon?" they'll be like wtfff.  I mean I do ask these questions with people I later get to know and feel comfortable saying anything with; but when first meeting people I more like "oh, so where do you work?  What did you major in etcc...." 

[lennedsay]

Okay, everybody's crazy. You need to find a girl that's fun-crazy, not psycho-crazy. Just enough crazy to make you laugh, but can still chill the fuck out and cook dinner with you later.

All my guy friends end up dating psycho-crazy girls and wonder why things went wrong. Girls can hide it well, but there are many signs....

[Fresh Prince]

Maybe you simply need to talk about yourself more rather than relying on the other person to carry the conversation? You seem interesting.

[Bebpo]

Maybe you simply need to talk about yourself more rather than relying on the other person to carry the conversation? You seem interesting.

I'm super shy :x  This is why I converse waaaaaay better when I drink. 

[Bebpo]

Also while I converse better while buzzed I don't internet-type better; usually worse ^^;  And since the only place I meet people at is online and occasional parties that doesn't help.

[Fresh Prince]

Well if that's the case make sure the other person is drinking as well....

[Bebpo]

Well if that's the case make sure the other person is drinking as well....

Yeah, the best first conversations I've had are between myself drinking and others (male or female) drinking.

That happens like....once a year, lol.  I'm way to shy to go to bars by myself and I don't have any friends to go to bars with.  Plus I'd rather meet women who aren't the bar type than those who are.  But maybe I need to lower my standards there...

[recursivelyenumerable]

The problem with deciding that you want to be in a relationship, and making that your goal, is that it's something that's inherently completely outside your control, and because of this you just end up frustrating yourself and maybe driving yourself half insane.  So I've found that it's better not to try and to focus on other goals instead, things that are within your power.

[lennedsay]

I dunno, just tell some funny stories or something...

I have a friend who is extremely socially awkward and has no idea. Let's call him Sam (Socially Awkward Male). So Sam talks to everybody about anything and always gets girls numbers and shit, but he's completely socially awkward. He just busts out and tells weird/funny stories about his day or his week or whatever, and girls are down. Since he has no idea that he's awkward, he doesn't get shy and embarrassed at all. It works. He gets laid. I bet it's awkward but it happens.

[lennedsay]

The problem with deciding that you want to be in a relationship, and making that your goal, is that it's something that's inherently completely outside your control, and because of this you just end up frustrating yourself and maybe driving yourself half insane.  So I've found that it's better not to try and to focus on other goals instead, things that are within your power.

When you stop looking for a relationship and stop caring, almost to the point where you almost believe you're better off alone forever, you'll find somebody.

Focus on work, school, hanging out with your friends, etc. etc. If you can't meet a girl doing these things, then you're trying to hard. If you have to go elsewhere to find a girl, it won't work out (no similar interests, friends, goals, etc). Do what you love and, hopefully, in doing so, you'll find someone who has the same interests as you.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Hasn't worked out that way for me, but at least with the not looking/caring approach I don't get as frustrated and get other stuff done.

[Fresh Prince]

But there are different types of bars. Don't you live in New York? There must be some faux-boho-hipster bar\pub\cafe thing where you would feel comfortable in.

To further simplify lennesdsay's post: Learn not to give a fuck anymore.

[DJ_Tet]

It's like watching Status on OA except without the baselessly inflated ego.

[Vizzys]

become a misogynist

[etiolate]

Know what you want and look for that, and don't bother with those that don't have what you want.

I am not sure where to tell you to find girls, but I always found the bar scene to be dishonest and that you won't find any true personas in that sort of scene.

[Fresh Prince]

Yes and the internet is soooo much better.

[etiolate]

But there are different types of bars. Don't you live in New York? There must be some faux-boho-hipster bar\pub\cafe thing where you would feel comfortable in.

To further simplify lennesdsay's post: Learn not to give a fuck anymore.

Aye, apathy will make you more relaxed, but it can be hard to conjure up when you're lonely and horny.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Focus on work, school, hanging out with your friends, etc. etc. If you can't meet a girl doing these things, then you're trying to hard. If you have to go elsewhere to find a girl, it won't work out (no similar interests, friends, goals, etc). Do what you love and, hopefully, in doing so, you'll find someone who has the same interests as you.

It's kind of tougher when the stuff you're intensely interested in, and your work, are mostly math/CS related and women who are also into that stuff are relatively rare (and the ones who are are usually really, really sick of getting hit on by nerds who are all excited because omg a girl who likes math will you marry me).

[Propagandhim]

You know, I've never thought of non-generic, opinion-orientated questions at first meet.  I feel like if I say "so what do you think of kevin smith films?" I'll get a..."huh, whose that?"; or "are you glad we are bombing the moon?" they'll be like wtfff.  I mean I do ask these questions with people I later get to know and feel comfortable saying anything with; but when first meeting people I more like "oh, so where do you work?  What did you major in etcc...." 

See, you gotta start out with the bombing the moon questions first.  You have it all topsy-turvy. 

Actually, I don't mean anything that outlandish..but like, fun stuff, you know?  The where do you work stuff is a good gate into the cooler questions - just angle that shiznat, yo. 

"So, where do you work?"
"Oh, I do HR at a pharmaceutical company."
"OH, I HEAR HUMANS AREN'T THE ONLY RESOURCE THERE! HAHA! *nudge*"

If she laughs, rinse and repeat.  If she does not, then stalk her on facebook until you figure out why she's a fucking bitch that doesn't laugh at awesome jokes.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The problem with deciding that you want to be in a relationship, and making that your goal, is that it's something that's inherently completely outside your control, and because of this you just end up frustrating yourself and maybe driving yourself half insane.  So I've found that it's better not to try and to focus on other goals instead, things that are within your power.

When you stop looking for a relationship and stop caring, almost to the point where you almost believe you're better off alone forever, you'll find somebody.

Focus on work, school, hanging out with your friends, etc. etc. If you can't meet a girl doing these things, then you're trying to hard. If you have to go elsewhere to find a girl, it won't work out (no similar interests, friends, goals, etc). Do what you love and, hopefully, in doing so, you'll find someone who has the same interests as you.

I don't agree with this, especially for the internet set where most hobbies and free time is spent inside of their house/apartment/mother's basement.  Stop caring really will mean never finding anyone.

[Vizzys]

propagandhim is like the only person itt with valid advice that doesnt suck

[Propagandhim]

propagandhim is like the only person itt with valid advice that doesnt suck

 

[Fresh Prince]

smh

[Bebpo]

Focus on work, school, hanging out with your friends, etc. etc. If you can't meet a girl doing these things, then you're trying to hard. If you have to go elsewhere to find a girl, it won't work out (no similar interests, friends, goals, etc). Do what you love and, hopefully, in doing so, you'll find someone who has the same interests as you.

I totally agree with this.

The problem is I live in Orange County which is a everyone-drives, everything closes at 10pm-midnight, and everyone's at church doing the super christian conservative thing.

My friend circle who I do regularly hang out with are all involved in relationships (and their female friends have NO FEMALE FRIENDS, so it's all guys + their gfs group) or are not interested in going to social things like parties/bars/clubs with me.

I don't work so I don't meet anyone at work.  I go to school but it's a really really small class (law school) and there's like 0.00001% chance of meeting someone there.  Also I commute and the law school is just a single building so it's not like college where I can just hang around campus and socialize.

All my hobbies I focus on (writing, photography, exploring, video-making, baking, movie watching, game playing, etc...) are solo hobbies that I do on my own because I am on my own 95% of the time.  So not really going to meet anyone through this.

And thus over the years because of this situation the only places I have ever met women are online (aka pursueing), at the occasional party a friend of a friend throws.

What normally happens is that I have zero luck at all meeting anyone so I do the right thing and focus on non-dating stuff and enjoying my life and my school and my hobbies and my friends...and it's good!  But it's a "I'm alone my whole life" good, which "I'm with someone I care about and who cares about me" good is better IMO.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I don't agree with this, especially for the internet set where most hobbies and free time is spent inside of their house/apartment/mother's basement.  Stop caring really will mean never finding anyone.

Yes, but caring equally means never finding anyone, but also causes additional problems, so it's still better to not care since zero benefits > negative benefits.

[Fresh Prince]

Bebpo you're not crazy.
recursive is too cynical-might as well end yourself now. 

[Bebpo]

I'm c&p this from the pics thread before jarosh comes in here before there and yells at me some more 

What I read from Jarosh's post was 2 things:

1.  I'm in denial
-> Denial of what?
-Denial of self-flaws (personality)
-Yes, I think I have personality problems; why else am I still single and asking for advice on gaming boards?
->What are these flaws?
-Too selfish, too nice, too greedy, too picky, too niave, too emotional, probably more
-> How do I improve those flaws?
-idk; the main ways I change is by meeting people who have an affect on my life and I learn from them; I'm not really sure how to change my core personality and emotions just out of the blue on my own.

2.  Stop being a manchild and be an adult

I'd ditch the manchild/GAF-esque behavior.  Doing that alone may refocus a lot of his priorities.

-Ok...how does one become an adult?
-I am a student; I can't work a job while going to school full time.  So I'm not part of the career working world.  Even when I was, I didn't really notice things being different fwiw.
-I deal with money and bills and keeping finances in check; real world responsibilities like everyone else.  I don't have a significant other, or a child, or a pet or anyone/anything to be responsible for other than myself.
-I read the news and think about what is going on in the world; even though I don't understand a lot of it beyond basic principles
-So...how do I "grow up"?  There is no book/flowchart/guide for this.  When I don't have instructions on how to do something I just attempt it out in a blaze of chaos and fail horribly and learn from my mistakes.  I keep trying things to be more like "adults" but nothing has worked.  As Woody Allen said, if you're not failing every now and again, it's a sign you're not doing anything innovative.  I fail a lot and learn in like every other field, but in life I just fail a lot and don't seem to learn much; or at least I can't understand what I was supposed to have learned.

So yeah, it's great to hear my problems and I can agree with them but I can never see advice on how to actually do anything about them besides seeing a shrink, which I'm uncomfortable with because of dealing with my family if they find out I'm seeing one.

[recursivelyenumerable]

All my hobbies I focus on (writing, photography, exploring, video-making, baking, movie watching, game playing, etc...) are solo hobbies that I do on my own because I am on my own 95% of the time.

Not necessarily for the purpose of meeting women, but couldn't you change this?  Get involved with a bigger video/movie project with other people, etc.  It could at least help relieve your anomie a bit.

[Bebpo]

btw, I'm normally in a good mood/happy/optimistic and then I come here and write down my problems and look them and get depressed and think I suck :\

To quote the Bruce Lee Band,

"Superman can't even save me from my own insecurities"

[Propagandhim]

Do you have a friend that would come with you to a pick-up-and-play rec sport?  I did ultimate frisbee once and it was pretty fun.  Now I'm starting a soccer team - I'd totally invite you if you were near NJ. 


edit: Ohhh you're in California.

[Fresh Prince]

I'm c&p this from the pics thread before jarosh comes in here before there and yells at me some more 

But really who is jarosh? Some effeminate guy who had to marry his sister from half a world away on the internet because he couldn't find anybody at home?

For that matter who am I to give you advice?

[Bebpo]

All my hobbies I focus on (writing, photography, exploring, video-making, baking, movie watching, game playing, etc...) are solo hobbies that I do on my own because I am on my own 95% of the time.

Not necessarily for the purpose of meeting women, but couldn't you change this?  Get involved with a bigger video/movie project with other people, etc.  It could at least help relieve your anomie a bit.

I try!  Like a couple of weeks ago I wrote a screenplay called The Rise and Fall of Magmatron which was a spoof on Mazinger type 70's Japanese giant robot films about this robot powered by the magma of the earth (it's soul) who melts the cold heart of Icescaped the giant stereo funk blasting robot from venus who was actually a gentle robot seeking robot love on the inside.

Anyhow I tried for a few weeks to get people together to make the props film it and it never panned out.  Though part of the problem was I was going through this girl situation which kinda was taking up my thoughts/time instead.  Also even if I had gotten the short made it would have just been with all my guy friends so it wouldn't have really helped me meet anyone new.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Maybe you'd have better luck finding someone else's project to get involved with, at least for the time being, rather than initiating the project yourself? 

[Bebpo]

Do you have a friend that would come with you to a pick-up-and-play rec sport?  I did ultimate frisbee once and it was pretty fun.  Now I'm starting a soccer team - I'd totally invite you if you were near NJ. 


edit: Ohhh you're in California.

That's the other thing.  I love playing sports, yet I never do because have no one to play with.  I used to play soccer in high school and prior and I played soccer with Japanese kids while teaching over there and it was still tons of fun.  I used to hang out with a group and play basketball all the time in high school, but haven't played it since.  Tennis was great for the months I did it as well and I used to be a pitcher in baseball but haven't played in foreeever.

Yeah it's weird cause I love playing sports (not a big watching fan though), but after high school it was like "oh...I have no one to play with anymore" and that was the end of that.

[Bebpo]

Maybe you'd have better luck finding someone else's project to get involved with, at least for the time being, rather than initiating the project yourself? 

I don't know how to meet people and get involved in things
I'm shy when it comes to irl stuff 

[Fresh Prince]

You do know local sports teams are relatively easy to join. The people there might not be 'interesting' but you know it's a start.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Also, you might want to seriously think about moving to a better environment.  I dunno much about law schools or how transferring would work, but you'd probably be much better off here in Portland for example, there are a lot more people who are into goofy DIY video shit and whatever else.  Hell, I have a group of semi-friends into it I could probably hook you up with, they are all mid-20s mega-hipster manchildren except for a few who are 30s and 40s mega-hipster manchildren, and most of them have equally mega-hipsterized girlfriends so there you go.

I'm not saying moving will be a panacea for your problems -- it certainly wasn't for mine -- but commuter towns just suck for single people with creative hobbies.

[Bebpo]

After reading a little about zodiac signs (yeah, smh but it's interesting)
I think the original rant in the pics thread was because I needed validation that I was at least normally attractive.

Because I think I look at myself and say:
-Hey I'm good looking; a little short; but in good shape and some sexiness.
-Hey I have dreams and aspirations, fun hobbies, a promising career path
-Hey I'm at intelligent.  Maybe not like Prole or the more literary types, but I do well in school and can solve problems (usually in creative ways).
-Hey I have a nice car, a decent amount of spendable savings to have good times with
-Hey I have good taste in movies/music (too narrow, sure; but what I do like is good)
-Hey I'm sort of quirky and funny at random times (though I'll fully admit I don't have fast and smart wit; I make dumb/silly jokes because it's better than no jokes )
-So why am I always single?

It makes me kinda upset because while maybe I'm not Leonardo diCaprio, I think I'm a good catch and it's not like I chase girls way out of my league like models or whatnot.  So it's like I'm here, while all these single girls are complaining about being single and wtfwtfwtf.  So I try to use the online sites as a connection point between the two and it never works :X

Although to be honest I think I blew this last thing by just waiting too long because uh,

spoiler (click to show/hide)

underage

[close]

and I had no clue what to do (the bar has an ethics test!!)  And then another guy swept in without the stalling.

Okcupid says the reason why I'm single is that I'm a girl's best guy friend.  Always there and supportive and great to joke around with but they never see you as more than a friend.  This accurately describes every situation I've been in with a girl my entire life (even the one I've slept with; was like friends -> friends w/benefits).  So I can't really refute that but idk how to change it.  The advice I hear growing up was act towards the girl as if she was just one of your guy friends; like nothing's different and I think like that and she DOES BECOME A FRIEND LIKE MY GUY FRIENDS, but uhhhh....then I'm in the male friendszone and she never sees me as anything more and I get a crush and bad bad bad explod.

[Mr. Gundam]

After that last one, nothing good is going to come out of this thread.

Go to a therapist.

Really.

[Bebpo]

You do know local sports teams are relatively easy to join. The people there might not be 'interesting' but you know it's a start.

haha, no I actually get along with most guys.  I actually feel a little intimidated I think since I'm small and they're all so tall and strong.  I dunno, the whole "interesting" thing is more that when I talk with people at events/parties I'm bad at holding extended conversations which I THINK is because I can't keep interest and just let the conversation trail off and I walk away and talk to someone else.  But I think that's more about my ADD attention span or self-confidence or something.  I'm not really sure why; but if I click with someone I'm glued to them.  

It's like I'm either not-responsive enough or a fanboy.  I have a difficult time finding a middle ground.

Also, you might want to seriously think about moving to a better environment.  I dunno much about law schools or how transferring would work, but you'd probably be much better off here in Portland for example, there are a lot more people who are into goofy DIY video shit and whatever else.  Hell, I have a group of semi-friends into it I could probably hook you up with, they are all mid-20s mega-hipster manchildren except for a few who are 30s and 40s mega-hipster manchildren, and most of them have equally mega-hipsterized girlfriends so there you go.

I'm not saying moving will be a panacea for your problems -- it certainly wasn't for mine -- but commuter towns just suck for single people with creative hobbies.

I will probably move when I finish school; but for the next two years at least I'm still here and I'm gonna be approaching 30 :\

Duckroll told me this is all because my biological clock has started ticking so I'm getting ansy.  I think it's more because I just had a major life surgery and feel less assured about the LONG TERM future and am getting ansy about experiencing a great love or a great breakup before I...die :\

[Fresh Prince]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Underage?

[close]

You can and should do much better.

[Van Cruncheon]

nah, do NOT do the friend thing. always make sure there's clear romantic interest. doing the "let's hang out" thang is a recipe for friend zone shit. ACCEPT REJECTION. rejection is your pal. it weeds out girls who aren't interested early on; and if they decide maybe they WERE interested, you'll have a romantic context. always ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK. most dudes use "friending" women as an excuse to avoid the anxiety, conflict and discomfort of rejection. don't be that way. getting rejected early on is MUCH better than the pain of developing a one-way set of feelings for them over time.

i'm an average lookin' dude. i am no paragon of social skills beyond a basic aptitude for public speaking. i don't act particularly intellgent until you get to know me. but i had quite a few girlfriends AND i got married quickly, and that's because I WORKED THE LAW OF AVERAGES. when i saw a girl i had even a passing fancy in, i'd ask if they wanted to go to the student union and get a coffee or ten, or catch a movie. oh, extra bonus plus advice: ALWAYS make sure the first few dates are JUST you and her; NO OTHER FRIENDS OR DISTRACTIONS. i know it feels safer and more comfortable with friends around, but that just lets her diffuse and hide her feelings. she's not getting to know you; she's just meeting OTHER people. plus sometimes your friends work against you, in numerous ways.

also, you're gonna hafta change for a gurl. they do; you do. just stay away from co-dependent or schizoid types -- and you can usually tell within two dates -- and you'll be fine.

[Bebpo]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Underage?

[close]

You can and should do much better.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

She said she was 18 on her profile; I didn't know she was months short of it until I added her on facebook and then it was really weird because I'd gotten a crush on her from getting to know her but I was sooooo not going to act on it with someone < 18

[close]

[Mr. Gundam]

nah, do NOT do the friend thing. always make sure there's clear romantic interest. doing the "let's hang out" thang is a recipe for friend zone shit. ACCEPT REJECTION. rejection is your pal. it weeds out girls who aren't interested early on; and if they decide maybe they WERE interested, you'll have a romantic context. always ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK. most dudes use "friending" women as an excuse to avoid the conflict and discomfort of rejection. don't be that way. getting rejected early on is MUCH better than the pain of developing a one-way set of feelings for them over time.

also, you're gonna hafta change for a gurl. they do; you do. just stay away from co-dependent or schizoid types -- and you can usually tell within two dates -- and you'll be fine.

Prole's advice is perfect, but it's also the exact same stuff we were telling you in the previous thread...

[Fresh Prince]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Underage?

[close]

You can and should do much better.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

She said she was 18 on her profile; I didn't know she was months short of it until I added her on facebook and then it was really weird because I'd gotten a crush on her from getting to know her but I was sooooo not going to act on it with someone < 18

[close]

That's not so bad, you actually made it sound worse than it actually is.

[recursivelyenumerable]

It makes me kinda upset because while maybe I'm not Leonardo diCaprio, I think I'm a good catch and it's not like I chase girls way out of my league like models or whatnot.  So it's like I'm here, while all these single girls are complaining about being single and wtfwtfwtf.

See, it's this kind of thought process that's just totally worthless, unproductive, and will drive you insane.  Like I said, the primary characteristic of relationship-finding is that it is completely outside your control.  It's totally dependent on a momentous decision made by someone else, and those kinds of decisions aren't made based on logic or any consistent pattern (by both men and women btw, the only difference is that men are somewhat more likely to tell themselves/others they have some rational basis for their choices, but usually in reality they don't).  So trying to figure out the reason people make these decisions (in this case on whether to accept or reject you as a potential partner) is purely an exercise in frustration because there doesn't need to be a reason at all.  

[Bebpo]

nah, do NOT do the friend thing. always make sure there's clear romantic interest. doing the "let's hang out" thang is a recipe for friend zone shit. ACCEPT REJECTION. rejection is your pal. it weeds out girls who aren't interested early on; and if they decide maybe they WERE interested, you'll have a romantic context. always ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK. most dudes use "friending" women as an excuse to avoid the conflict and discomfort of rejection. don't be that way. getting rejected early on is MUCH better than the pain of developing a one-way set of feelings for them over time.

also, you're gonna hafta change for a gurl. they do; you do. just stay away from co-dependent or schizoid types -- and you can usually tell within two dates -- and you'll be fine.

Thanks.  Seriously.

At the same time though ever girl I've talked to says the reason why they were willing to talk to me was BECAUSE I wasn't like the other guys on the dating sites who ask them out within the first conversation.

It's like you need to have several conversations before asking a girl on a date, but if you have too many it becomes a friend "hang out".  If you have too few the girl thinks you're creepy and she doesn't even know you and why would she want to meet you in person.  From what I've gathered girls want to get to know a guy (if they meet them online) first and make sure he's not a psycho and then start thinking about agreeing to a first date.

That also makes it kind of a time waster?  Because you have to run through all these hoops with each girl first to prove you aren't a psycho and then you can ask them out and half the time or more they'll reject you anyhow.  Or you go and find no chemistry at the first date and you're rejected there.

Meeting people irl is so much simpler.  Your first conversation shows A.  Neither of you is going to kill each other, and B.  You have some chemistry, you get a long.  So by the first meet you can get a number or ask her on a date.  I just wish I had the opportunities to do this more often so I can get rejected, rejected, rejected without wasting all the time and maybe get that 1 out of 10 date.

[MCD]

[Bebpo]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Underage?

[close]

You can and should do much better.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

She said she was 18 on her profile; I didn't know she was months short of it until I added her on facebook and then it was really weird because I'd gotten a crush on her from getting to know her but I was sooooo not going to act on it with someone < 18

[close]

That's not so bad, you actually made it sound worse than it actually is.

Yeah I don't think it was like morally bad, but it was just a bad bad bad situation to be in because it's like what could I do?  Either something WRONG or just stay as friends with someone I really dig for who they are and see what happens in a few months down the line when it's not WRONG.

But other guys did not find it WRONG and a girl with low self-confidence found a guy of action and love happened between two others while I was a friend.  Now I am neither a love or a friend.  :x

But I've moved on from this already and now I'm just trying to better myself for the next person.

[Van Cruncheon]

nah, do NOT do the friend thing. always make sure there's clear romantic interest. doing the "let's hang out" thang is a recipe for friend zone shit. ACCEPT REJECTION. rejection is your pal. it weeds out girls who aren't interested early on; and if they decide maybe they WERE interested, you'll have a romantic context. always ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK. most dudes use "friending" women as an excuse to avoid the conflict and discomfort of rejection. don't be that way. getting rejected early on is MUCH better than the pain of developing a one-way set of feelings for them over time.

also, you're gonna hafta change for a gurl. they do; you do. just stay away from co-dependent or schizoid types -- and you can usually tell within two dates -- and you'll be fine.

Thanks.  Seriously.

At the same time though ever girl I've talked to says the reason why they were willing to talk to me was BECAUSE I wasn't like the other guys on the dating sites who ask them out within the first conversation.

It's like you need to have several conversations before asking a girl on a date, but if you have too many it becomes a friend "hang out".  If you have too few the girl thinks you're creepy and she doesn't even know you and why would she want to meet you in person.  From what I've gathered girls want to get to know a guy (if they meet them online) first and make sure he's not a psycho and then start thinking about agreeing to a first date.

That also makes it kind of a time waster?  Because you have to run through all these hoops with each girl first to prove you aren't a psycho and then you can ask them out and half the time or more they'll reject you anyhow.  Or you go and find no chemistry at the first date and you're rejected there.

Meeting people irl is so much simpler.  Your first conversation shows A.  Neither of you is going to kill each other, and B.  You have some chemistry, you get a long.  So by the first meet you can get a number or ask her on a date.  I just wish I had the opportunities to do this more often so I can get rejected, rejected, rejected without wasting all the time and maybe get that 1 out of 10 date.

i'd argue that dating sites aren't actually healthy -- the woman doesn't get to REACT to you as she would in person, but instead can talk herself out of a date for the most trivial of reasons, just as you might with her. a LOT of getting a date and having a relationship is in body language and intiimate personal reactions, and NOT in the realm of pseudo-intellectuality of a conversation displaced by time and relative anonymity. when a girl says "you're not like those other guys" it simply means that she feels that you aren't overcompensating; that doesn't mean she's actually interested. she's making the opening move in an online chess match that you're both gonna lose.

oh, and i *think* you're getting the wrong idea with the first dates: those are YOUR opportunity to evaluate HER. you have an interest; keep the romantic flood at bay while you suss HER out and ask the little questions that open her up. don't idealize her until you've confirmed that she''s worth it; and in the process, you'll discover that she might be all the more into you because you 're holding back.

also, it's just plain AMAZING how much more appealing people are in person -- and this goes for you, as well. i'd argue that all you need is a little more self-respect and not faexpect romance until the dating is well underway. if you need sex, there's any number of places to get that.

[Bebpo]

Yes.  When I meet people in irl and talk with them I find MANY WOMEN attractive and interesting.
Online I'll browse through a hundred profiles before I find one that grabs my attention & doesn't seem out of my league.


Online dating sucks.  I think it's probably been more self-destructive than anything for me.  OTOH though without it I would have zero interaction with women at all. 


Should I just start going to clubs/bars by myself on fri/sat nights and approach people to have practice conversations?  I feel like girls would find a guy at a club/bar alone creepy or pathetic.

[BlackMage]

Let's go to a bar bebpo. I will be your wingman.

[Van Cruncheon]

i dunno. i'll be honest; dating outside of college sounds really brutal to me. i'd find a regular hangout -- a coffee joint, a bookstore, maybe a non-trashy bar or some sort of group hobby meetup thang that isn't super nerdy -- and approach women there? you want a venue where they might be receptive themselves without being creepy or a total meat market, i guess. it sucks if you don't have friends into partying or matchmaking, no doubt.

[recursivelyenumerable]

nah, do NOT do the friend thing. always make sure there's clear romantic interest. doing the "let's hang out" thang is a recipe for friend zone shit. ACCEPT REJECTION. rejection is your pal. it weeds out girls who aren't interested early on; and if they decide maybe they WERE interested, you'll have a romantic context. always ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK. most dudes use "friending" women as an excuse to avoid the anxiety, conflict and discomfort of rejection. don't be that way. getting rejected early on is MUCH better than the pain of developing a one-way set of feelings for them over time.

I won't claim fear of rejection isn't a big part of it too, but another issue is that I just feel like such a skeez asking girls out out of the blue (or after a bit of conversation I guess?  but where to draw the line between the acceptable-preliminaries-to-establish-non-skeezness zone and the dread friend zone?)  Plus, I still have a kind of strong ideological objection to the notion that friendship and romance are mutually exclusive, and for that matter to the nature of the romance/dating game in general.  This may be partly a rationalization of anxiety etc. but I really don't think that's all there is to it.  For that matter, I'm not sure the anxiety etc. aren't legitimate emotional mechanisms for operationalizing legitimate concerns.

[Kara]

Are you in South County, Bebpo? There are more... colorful places in North County where you can find more interesting people. Live in South County, never hang out in South County. That's the rule.

[Van Cruncheon]

of course they are concerns; otherwise, the anxiety wouldn't be as acute. asking a woman out is a RISK, and it's a selfish risk at that.

oh, and i'm not saying ask them right out of the blue; spend an hour or two conversing with them. if they are still smiling and talking with you after an hour, and haven't tried to shoo you off with body language (or outright), you have a pretty good chance of a "yes".

[Boogie]

i dunno. i'll be honest; dating outside of college sounds really brutal to me. i'd find a regular hangout -- a coffee joint, a bookstore, maybe a non-trashy bar or some sort of group hobby meetup thang that isn't super nerdy -- and approach women there? you want a venue where they might be receptive themselves without being creepy or a total meat market, i guess. it sucks if you don't have friends into partying or matchmaking, no doubt.

Ya, this is the problem I think I'm going to have now that I'm single again.  Not sure how to "put myself out there", most of my friends are spread around the country now, and when I do hang out with friends, it tends to be just my friends, I'm not really meeting anyone new through my friends at this point.

[Bebpo]

Blackmage, I'm down.  Are you in OC/LA area?

nah, do NOT do the friend thing. always make sure there's clear romantic interest. doing the "let's hang out" thang is a recipe for friend zone shit. ACCEPT REJECTION. rejection is your pal. it weeds out girls who aren't interested early on; and if they decide maybe they WERE interested, you'll have a romantic context. always ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK. most dudes use "friending" women as an excuse to avoid the anxiety, conflict and discomfort of rejection. don't be that way. getting rejected early on is MUCH better than the pain of developing a one-way set of feelings for them over time.

I won't claim fear of rejection isn't a big part of it too, but another issue is that I just feel like such a skeez asking girls out out of the blue (or after a bit of conversation I guess?  but where to draw the line between the acceptable-preliminaries-to-establish-non-skeezness zone and the dread friend zone?)  Plus, I still have a kind of strong ideological objection to the notion that friendship and romance are mutually exclusive, and for that matter to the nature of the romance/dating game in general.  This may be partly a rationalization of anxiety etc. but I really don't think that's all there is to it.  For that matter, I'm not sure the anxiety etc. aren't legitimate emotional mechanisms for operationalizing legitimate concerns.

Yes. Yes. Yes.
I've always felt that I want the person who I fall in love with to be my best friend.  We are not wrong on that my brotha

BUT I HAVE COME TO THE REALIZATION:
IT DOES NOT GO
BEST FRIEND -> LOVER

IT GOES
LOVER -> BEST FRIEND

It's the same thing.  They go hand in hand.  Your lover can be your best friend.  But women never want it to be from the best friend -> bf direction.  They want to fall in love and then become best friends while in love.


I really do think it sucks we live so far apart recursive.  I think you and I would make a good team and we'd find two great girls and go on double dates and all that fun.

Are you in South County, Bebpo? There are more... colorful places in North County where you can find more interesting people. Live in South County, never hang out in South County. That's the rule.

Are you talking about LA?  I'm in Orange County, aka 60-90 mins south of LA.  I have no idea where to go to socialize in this city.  Even the dating sites show 90% of the women registered nearby are an hour drive from me.  There are very, very, very few women from OC on online sites.

[Van Cruncheon]

they only become your "best friend" when the limerence wears off and you both decide to change yourselves for life together.