Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Jacking Off Over Shitty GW2

[Cerveza mas fina]

You know what I dont like? Dungeons that you dont have to explore.

I remember in wow you would get lost in wailing caverns or something, and that was a level 20 place! Shit i spend like 2/3 hours there near launch with my guild.

[etiolate]

The PVE community always looks for the easiest way through and the idea that they did it the hard way for any reason other than it being the only way is silly.

PEOPLE always look for the easiest way through. It's human nature. Everyone else follows those people because it's status quo.

Risk v Reward argument has merit, but not with his example. I don't see how risk v reward is not held up in WoW. How is there not reward equal to risk with WoW's multi-difficulty raids? You do the hardest mode and you get the most powerful gear. You do the easy mode and your gear is much weaker.

But that's how the entire game is. You don't do any dungeons, its hard to get decent gear. If you want the harder challenge then you do the harder modes and get the better gear. That paradigm still exists. The only difference is that the e-peen of seeing content that others haven't is gone. That's all. It's this idea that *I* deserve this and you don't. It's childish.

That's not his point at all, I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle. He's not saying that "how it was before was better because only I got to do it", he's saying that how it is now is worse because everyone does it and it doesn't mean anything. He then follows that up with "is this really a better scenario from a designer's perspective?" because the key reasoning that Blizzard has given for introducing LFR is that "no one got to see the content we were spending the majority of our time on". So is it really better if significantly less people see the encounters from the difficulty level that they were designed for so that EVERYONE can see the encounters from a difficulty level where what an individual player does or doesn't do makes almost exactly no impact on the success of the encounter?

If you could argue that it helped player retention rates by virtue of accessibility, I'd concede that I'm fighting money and there's no winning that, but when players re-sub once every 4-6 months for a single month and then promptly un-sub after finishing LFR, I don't think it is. For a F2P or P2P analogy, those players would no longer be purchasing things from the item shops. Whatever the payment model is, the money flow is dead and you can only pray that they'll continue re-subbing and not forgo a content release or three due to other obligations or games.

There has to be some sort of middle ground starting point between the mindless hour a week unscheduled time commitment that LFR is and the part-time second job that organized raiding is. I think that this new difficulty level between LFR and Normal could be that, but it has to replace LFR entirely if end-game raiding is going to remain the core of your offerings.

But how is it not special anymore? How does it mean nothing now? Because other people saw the content? That people are realizing difficulty is weighted by gear more than skill? What he is saying IS what I am saying he is saying, because it still comes down to feeling less like a little prince because the peasants got in the door.

[etiolate]

And thanks Ruzbeh for bringing up GW2!

http://techland.time.com/2013/08/16/guild-wars-2-nabs-fastest-selling-western-mmo-crown-looks-east-for-more-records/

The fastest selling MMO in the history of Western video games? Why World of War–err, wait a second…not World of Warcraft? Doesn’t WoW have a bazillion chart-topping subscribers? Isn’t it still cooking along nine years after it launched back in prehistoric November 2004?

It does and it is, though its numbers have fallen precipitously in recent years…you know, as people finally run out of barrel-sized candles to burn at both ends (and despite Blizzard’s admirable attempts at keeping the multifaceted content train a-chuggin’). Still, it took WoW years to reach its record-shattering, apex predator heights. Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that jazz.

How about a year then? Guild Wars 2 debuted last August and shot off the block like Usain Bolt, bringing the game an enormous (and apparently sustained) stock of subscribers. DFC Intelligence, an international market research firm focused on cross-platform video game metrics, just joined hands with Guild Wars 2 developer ArenaNet to announce that the game is now the fastest-selling MMO in history — and that’s just counting European and North American sales.

DFC analyst David Cole says his company came to its conclusions about the sales record by “triangulating against multiple data sources” (which is keep-out-of-the-weeds-speak for “trust our wizard math”). When I asked for clarification about whether ArenaNet and DFC mean Guild Wars 2 is the fastest-selling MMO worldwide or just in the West, I was told that since no one has solid data on Eastern sales, they had to stick with “in the West,” but that it’s probably true (across the board) in terms of sales, since Eastern MMOs are given away for free.

ArenaNet says it expects Guild Wars 2 to “experience rapid growth once it releases in China, where the player-base has the potential to exceed that of the West.” So if this three million in nine months figure — which, assuming sustained growth, would now be three million plus sales since May — doesn’t turn around, and Eastern sales live up to ArenaNet’s aspirations, you’d be well into World of Warcraft territory, say in the vicinity of six or seven million (or more) users combined. Imagine that.

Asperfit or not, GW2 is changing the market.

But there's more!

Yes, finally a free trial weekend.

https://register.guildwars2.com/trial

The Free Trial period starts at 12:01 AM PDT on August 23, 2013 and ends at 11:59 PM PDT on August 25, 2013.

I believe all you have to do is register to get the free trial. So if you've been wanting to check it out without plucking down the money then this is your best chance.

Also, the current update is pretty damn good and there's supposed to be some wacky stuff coming on Tuesday.

[Freyj]

But how is it not special anymore? How does it mean nothing now? Because other people saw the content? That people are realizing difficulty is weighted by gear more than skill? What he is saying IS what I am saying he is saying, because it still comes down to feeling less like a little prince because the peasants got in the door.

Jesus titfuckingchrist man, the number of people seeing the content is the EFFECT not the CAUSE. No one is arguing that less people should see the content, they're not arguing against the effect, they're arguing against the underlying cause: making the entry level difficulty so utterly trivial.

LFR is a nearly automatic loot train. It's a "skip gameplay to see content" button that renders said content meaningless.

In the past, I've despised difficulty levels in MMOs because it's immersion breaking bullshit that's designed to extend content long past it's expiration date, but I've come to accept that it's a facet of modern MMO design that I won't be able to avoid anymore. That being said, the progression of difficulty has to make sense to encourage players to improve themselves, promote positive social interaction and most importantly keep playing the game in order to see what is next.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Too bad its the one weekend in August where I cant play

[etiolate]

I just don't find his "i'm gonna herpaderp this" as a genuine representation of a LFR player. I still poke in WoW threads, including the GAF one, and experienced, former raiders use LFR and then pretty much quit with the raid. There are capable players doing LFR and choosing to do the raids that way for purpose of time limitations. If its too easy then yes that can be a problem. You have to punish players to teach them the game mechanics. I agree with that.

There's still a lot of troubling sentiments in his video.

[etiolate]

Too bad its the one weekend in August where I cant play

Yeah, I think their free trial system sucks. They should just have a week pass that someone can use only once, but at a time of their choosing, just to see how they like the game.

Apparently the free trials are all up to the money people and not the devs, so its tied more towards marketing schedules than player interests.

[Freyj]

And thanks Ruzbeh for bringing up GW2!

http://techland.time.com/2013/08/16/guild-wars-2-nabs-fastest-selling-western-mmo-crown-looks-east-for-more-records/

It isn't the first MMO to sell 3 million copies in 9 months, so "all time fastest selling" certainly isn't right.

If we are just looking at the 9 months following its release: there hasn't been much in the way of news on Mists sales after the announcement of 2.7 million outside China in 24 hours. I sort of doubt it sold less than 300,000 in the 8 months following that.

If it is the top selling "new" MMO in the 9 months following its release, congratulations for beating out games like Pirate 101 and Defiance I guess?

I just don't find his "i'm gonna herpaderp this" as a genuine representation of a LFR player. I still poke in WoW threads, including the GAF one, and experienced, former raiders use LFR and then pretty much quit with the raid. There are capable players doing LFR and choosing to do the raids that way for purpose of time limitations. If its too easy then yes that can be a problem. You have to punish players to teach them the game mechanics. I agree with that.

There's still a lot of troubling sentiments in his video.

What he did isn't a "genuine representation of a LFR player", it's "let's be the worst player possible and see what happens".

You're projecting some sort of "LFRers are peons" message that's just not there.

[etiolate]

You're comparing an expansion to a brand new MMO. The claim is the fastest selling new western MMO in history. An expansion isn't a new MMO. =p Yes, that is in history. That means more sales than WoW had in its first 9 months.

Not saying PR like this is 100% gospel. There's a lot of incomparables, especially once you get into the eastern market.

Also, my point is if it doesn't represent the LFR player well, then what merit does the video have? It's like "I'm going to pretend to be a homeless vet to panhandle just to prove why you shouldn't give money to the homeless."

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm loving Halfhill Market and Valley of the Four Winds. The daily quests are decent and farming is pretty damn fun.

MoP has some really great zones. So much of it is like an extended Nagrand, from TBC.

[Phoenix Dark]

A good tank never jumps into a raid he isn't familiar with. I spent a lot of time on Tankspot figuring out fight mechanics, what build would be best, what to look out for against trash mobs, etc.

Most DPS go into new raids with little idea of how it works, at least in my experience. It's up to the tanks, healers, and a couple decent DPS folks to figure shit out beforehand.

DS is quite straight forward though, and really doesn't become challenging for tanks until Ultraxion. The Deathwing fight is one of the best in the game IMO, especially the final stage.

[etiolate]

New patch in GW2 today. The story part so far is a bit underwhelming. It doesn't connect the past events together in an interesting way. I hope there's more to the Scarlet character that has to do with the past and the rest of the game. It's sort of a waste of the advantage of their Living Story to use the old "this stuff is here because BIG  BADDIE JUST APPEARED."

The invasions are like Rift invasions, but bigger than any Rift event I've seen. Throw in the larger playerbase, and the end of culling in PVE, and it's a bit crazy. Some screens:

Lion's Arch with culling off:


Invasion screens, with culling removed:







big version:
http://i5.minus.com/iE7JJfslYJDuK.png
http://i2.minus.com/iWYPNmKPbjLqK.png
http://i5.minus.com/ib1yS6AKbirOLF.png
http://i2.minus.com/iEPK4IRHnBLPx.png

[etiolate]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/21/the-elder-scrolls-online-will-be-subscription-based-will-not-j/

TESO to have a sub. This one doesn't surprise me. They probably already have a F2P model set up to transition into after launch. Really feels like an initial cash grab.

[etiolate]

If anyone is doing the Guild Wars 2 free trial, I recommend rolling on Stormbluff Isle. The GAFGuild is strong and friendly. If you need help, you can hit me up in-game. Just add Zed Zebes to contacts or /whisper me in game.

Also, anyone play Secret World? I have it now but I haven't logged in since the first few days of getting it.




link too: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/register-today-for-the-guild-wars-2-free-trial-on-august-23-25/

[etiolate]

http://www.zenofdesign.com/those-unwilling-to-learn-from-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it/

Interesting blog from someone who worked/works on SWTOR for the F2P conversion. Relevant to the TESO and Wildstar news, and also Blizzard's recent interest in F2P models.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Having a sub is maybe a way of trying to stand out now and appeal to the core market or something.

[etiolate]

Rift is seamless. LOTRO is seamless. From what I played, Tera was a mix of seamless with cities that were their separate zone. SWTOR starts off with small zones that are split among many instances, but has more open areas later on, but it takes quite a few levels to get there. GW2 has large zones, but you do load between them. In the case of Guild Wars 2, (from what I've heard),the zones exist as they do because of Dynamic Events. Dynamic Events are a lot more complicated to get going than traditional quest systems, and they have to be contained in some way. It also alleviates wait queues, as the game just creates a new server whenever a zone is full, and players flow into the overflow server version of the zone. Guild Wars 2's zones are also large in a vertical sense, having oceanic depths, caverns, secret passages, mountain climbs and all such stuff. I imagine that increases any loading needed to stream the world in.

[etiolate]

I don't think you ever really believe anything you say, Ruzbeh, but I'll answer that question since it relates to the business of MMOs.

The Dynamic Event and Exploration based PVE (GW2 and EQN) encourage players to sprawl out across a map. The events pop up in different places, they move across a map, and gather people together. As players gather and move around, or chase something mysteriously marked ont he map, they discover things and are encouraged to investigate. This means all the resources you used to create these large, sprawling worlds get properly used by the players. A traditional quest system, especially one like WoW's, leads people along a trail of breadcrumbs. They follow the trail, get the objective, then go back to the quest giver. Players tend to ignore anything that is off the trail since it doesn't offer the rewards that the quest does. This is why you have parts of Westfall that are largely untouched by the playerbase.

Dynamic Events mean your leveling content is less a waste of resources. Blizzard creates an expansion that is 80-90% leveling content that gets discarded at max level. It's a poor proposition development wise. Players demand a leveling experience, but they continue to sub (and this make Blizzard money) based on parts of the game that aren't leveling experiences. As the grind to level becomes less and less, the weight shifts more and more towards a tiny portion of the world and the company's development costs, while the greater portion of the world and their development time sits unused.

It's not efficient. Dynamic Event systems are more efficient. It's not just about making the world alive and attractive. It's not just a refinement of the questing system. It shifts weight back towards the open world and improves upon the "coral reef" problem.

[etiolate]

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/september-03-2013/



Super Adventure Box is back

[etiolate]

I think they were hoping for 4 million, but the spring season choked sales. These things always have silly comparisons. "More than Iceland!" Also, first time I've seen petabyte used for an MMO infographic.

[etiolate]

Tequatl 2.0

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/31/pax-prime-2013-guild-wars-2-prepares-to-blow-your-mind-all-o/

If you think you know Tequatl the Sunless and can whip that dragon with your eyes closed, then ArenaNet is just guffawing loudly in your direction. The devs' commitment to change includes the many world bosses, and Tequatl is the perfect platform to experience taking a big bad and making it way, way badder.

So what's Tequatl going to be like when the devs finish injecting him with steroids? The encounter will be completely changed, turning this into an extremely difficult, time-limited 80-person fight minimum that requires group strategy and a whole lot of moxie. Tequatl 2.0 is so tough, in fact, that the team at ArenaNet has yet to bring him down while playing internally. The studio has faith in the players to succeed where it cannot, however.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/454437568

Skip to the 50 minute mark for the live Tequatl raids. Make sure to watch the 1h25m mark to see something cool that happens when you fail one of the meta events/phases.


They are also introducing their LFG tool. I've been wary about how their handling this because of what WoW became eventually. From how it looks, the LFG will not be 100% automated. You will say you're LFG and what for, and then you have to choose to join others. The tool works for dungeons, open world events, WvWvW, and sPVP. You can also adjust your group's message to better describe what you're doing. (If you're doing a dungeon speedrun then you can specify speedrun in the advertisement.)

It doesn't seem like the LFG tool will make it a lobby game. At least, I hope not. The fact that it includes open world events and that they're releasing it with Taco 2.0 suggests they're trying to steer clear of automated, city sitting and instance hopping.

[chronovore]

My PC is somewhat improved -- well, staggeringly improved -- but still pretty unimpressively slow. Even so, I was able to play some Firefall at something other than a frame per 2 seconds (no joke!) for the first time, though the game still warns me that I'm under the minimum spec.

I only ran around in the world for a little bit, shot some bugs, jump-jetted around to activate satellite navigation markers which open up more of the map. Lots of people standing around in town.

It's my first graphic MMO, so I'm not sure what's supposed to happen. Kind of iffy on it.

[etiolate]

Firefall is transitioning into a Sandbox MMO FPS. Right now, after the tutorial, there isn't much direction. Well, at least it was that way when I played the beta. I think they're trying to work on ways for people to get into the "sandbox" mindset and guide them a little bit.

[chronovore]

Firefall is transitioning into a Sandbox MMO FPS. Right now, after the tutorial, there isn't much direction. Well, at least it was that way when I played the beta. I think they're trying to work on ways for people to get into the "sandbox" mindset and guide them a little bit.

Needs more of something, for sure.

I'll give it another 30 before deleting it until its out of Beta.

[etiolate]

For some reason, it takes Funcom 24  hours to register a password reset request and allow you to reset your password if you forgot it. ANYWAYS

Played some Secret World again this weekend. The game has some good quest writing and an inviting menu of tales. I wish the combat was a bit more interesting, because deck-based skill system and quest writing is nice.

I haven't been playing GW2 as much. The recent patch hasn't done much for me. First, Ascended Weapon grind is crazy stupid and they should normalize the Weapons in WvWvW for the health of the game. They probably won't because the chicken-headed derp society of MMOers would cry. I loved Super Adventure Box before, but World 2 is full of jank. There's just so many cheap deaths in regular mode, let alone Tribulation mode. It feels like you're playing something that belongs on Angry Video Game Nerd. You want to rage at the insta-deaths, cheap hits and shit that didn't feel playtested enough.

[Phoenix Dark]

Winter areas are easily my favorite areas, by a wide margin.

[etiolate]

Just went through this part in Secret World

Meanwhile

[Phoenix Dark]

Really liked the winter zone in Guild Wars 2.

[etiolate]

you ain't played no guild wars 2 before

bish you just reposting old posts

[Phoenix Dark]

it's an mmo thread, everything is an old post

but I did enjoy the winter zone when I played the beta.

[etiolate]

the Norn starting area?

[Phoenix Dark]

Yup, which is where you fight the big ass worm iirc.

[Freyj]

The Secret World had some really really good quest sections, but the pacing is pretty uneven overall.

[etiolate]

I have spent 98% of my time in Secret World in the first area. I will slowly get to later in the game. I have heard complaints about the pacing.

I have also been playing some Tera again, since its F2P. I'm kind of knocking out all the MMOs that went F2P to see how they're doing. The game actually has players in it, which is good for them. The combat is good, as it always has been, but around level 11 now with my Warrior and the monotony of the questing is already burning me out. Also, everyone being Elin doesn't help either. Creeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy.

[etiolate]

lulp

Our server is still trying to down him. =/

edit: DID IT

I got one of the rare aquabreather drops.

[etiolate]

Warhammer Online is going offline.
http://www.warhammeronline.com/article/Warhammer-Notice-Shutdown

I had heard about this a couple of weeks ago from someone in the RvR community. Apparently, it's not worth re-upping the Warhammer license for EA, so they're just taking it off-line.

[etiolate]

https://register.guildwars2.com/trial

Free Trial Week for GW2 starting Sep 27th. A bit surprised they aren't doing it during Halloween event, but maybe they thought that'd be too big a distraction.

I have been trying out DarkD3 on GW2. I like vibrant colors, so I'm not totally into it yet. However, Miktar's panaromic shots are amazing, and he uses DarkD3. http://minus.com/mbnI2aqf1Ete1D

I think it makes some of the ground textures sharper, and draws attention to light sources well. I'll try it out for a bit. Some screens from my rig:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Cerveza mas fina]

Seems like this free week is to counter blizz' free week with the launch of patch 5.4

[etiolate]

I thought 5.4 already released?

[etiolate]

This is an official trailer. Featuring the drummer from Cinderella.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

DUDE:
I've caught dragons all over
But only one friend like you
We'll get a sweet pad and chill
Just like true metal dudes

DUDE:
This dragon dude is super rad
He's way cooler than a girl
Like the bro I never had
Our friendship will rule the world

DRAGON:
I used to eat guys like him
But now I've got a human friend
Skinning limbs was getting grim
Now he can ride me till the end

BOTH:
Let's spread our wings together
And take flight to the sky
We'll get some matching leather
And ride until we die

DUDE: They think it's weird we're uber bros!
DRAGON: This prejudice has to stop!

GUY:
Let's build an army that understands
Why a dude can hang with a dragon man
Freedom will come with our own clan/--
We'll ride until we die!

DRAGON:
Without friends life would be dull
So I'll burn the skin off hater's skulls
Our metal bond is totes immortal
We'll ride until we die!

BOTH:
We'll take our friendship to the sky
Let's ride until we die![/quote]

[close]

[Howard Alan Treesong]

hmm I wonder if Guild Wars 2 is gay



oh

[etiolate]

that is awesome

Charr Mesmers

[chronovore]

hmm I wonder if Guild Wars 2 is gay

(Image removed from quote.)

oh

BIASED.

[Phoenix Dark]

BE OUR GUEST

ultimate f2p slogan

[etiolate]

Players have created some great lookalikes in GW2.

Lara Croft:



Marvin The Martian (found this guy on my server):

[etiolate]

Halloween is baaaaaack bitches

[etiolate]

GW's Halloween works because its based around the story of the Mad King. The whole story and history is horrific, yet somehow jovial because the Mad King is like Stacey Keech in a Spirit store.

However, the last few patches have been rather meh. The new patch I really like. They basically remade most of Kessex Hills and there's a giant tower in the middle, krait everywhere, and a toxic fog. The krait and the toxic spores spread to connecting zones as well. I think the Kessex Hills zone will continue to change from player events, as they've sort of hinted at that. The tower itself isn't accessible yet, but that's probably next week or the week after.

The idea of the world actually changing is what I wanted from the Living World concept. It's just taken forever to really get there. Some piecemeal changes have happened, like new jumping puzzle, a new dungeon path, revamped dragon fight and new statues. This is the largest change to the world so far.

[etiolate]

I guess nobody cares anymore but next WoW expansion announced.



-Time Travel Plot
-Orcs
-New Character Models
-Garrisons

The last two bits are probably the things people like the most so far. I am curious to see how they execute what looks like a town building system with Garrisons.

I think they also announced many more expansions to come, so don't expect a new Blizz MMO anytime soon.

[Phoenix Dark]

Boosting to lv90 seems like validation for so much of what's wrong with WoW. It's completely end game focused, to the point where most if not all low level content is a ghost land. I thought Cata would remake the early leveling but eh.

I'll read more, but based on that trailer I'm not enticed.

[etiolate]

I don't have a problem with boosting to high levels if you already have a bunch of alts.

Most often, getting people into the leveing areas is about rewards. GW2 is designed around going back to leveling areas with the scaling system, but even then, a lot of mid-level areas are quiet. Meanwhile, the human starter area always has a train of players going from Champion Boss to Champion Boss because it's quick rewards and leveling.

[ManaByte]

Stop with the shitty GW2 shilling. NO ONE FUCKING CARES ABOUT THAT SHIT GAME

[Freyj]

I can't get too upset about instant 90 considering I took a Panda Warrior from 1-90 in under 2 weeks of casual after work hours without really rushing anything. Wear Heirlooms, in a level 25 guild, and hit up Vashj'ir at level 80. You'll be nearly 84 by the time you're done with it. Nearly an entire expansion's worth of levels in 1 or 2 nights. Leveling is pretty much just there to provide some small measure of initial gated content with each new expansion and a whirlwind tour of the new zones (that you'll never visit again, because you'll just sit in Stormwind / Org queuing via menus within menus).

I can't imagine this race to instant gratification will produce whatever results they're looking for long term. People bitch about grinds, timesinks, etc., but you start taking all of that away and people jump ship at the first new COD or GTA or what have you and they return less often. Fuck it though, lost that battle a long time ago.

New race models are all over the place so far. Gnome and Dwarf are pretty great overall, same basic look and feel that actually works in the modern environments. Undead look fucking terrible. Tauren went the way of the Worgen, with furry taking precedence over all else. Orcs are a mixed bag.

Other than that, I'm a slightly surprised how little there is to talk about with what's been released so far. There just doesn't seem to be a lot going on here.

[etiolate]

I agree that WoW is too endgame focused, but I also think it need more variety to its endgame. I think they know that and have tried adding to it with pokemon, farming, and now this town building instance idea.

In that GAF thread about WoW losing another 100k subs, there are people who still think raiding is what keeps people playing.  If we logged in right now, I am sure PD and I have friends list full of raiders that would be entirely empty with a last log in of many months ago. So raiding's not it. Unfortunately, I think that 'endgame' mindset is so strong in the minds of the playerbase that the variety they add to the game may go largely ignored.

It's unfortunate because the game needs something other than raiding. Every time I used to go back to WoW, I'd do the new content, and see the new dungeons and raids. And then, by a month's time, I'd realize I was playing the same old game and stuck in the same old spot.

[Freyj]

Months? More like years. I've had a beer with more people from early WoW than I've actually seen online in the last 3 or 4 years.

I wouldn't even call what most people do in large groups ay max level "raiding" anymore. People still play because they're new enough that it isn't tired yet or they just can't find anything better.

[etiolate]

If they're still playing then they must have a large enough group of friends still playing. That group likely is fresh to the game or total diehards.

The staying power of an mmo relies on having others to play with. You go back for the virtual community and virtual world.

[Phoenix Dark]

As I mentioned in the GAF thread, I used that free week promo in September. Only one of my old friends was online, and he's the diehard type; he left our server awhile ago for greener pastures.

Most people get tired of the grind and general process of raiding. Fighting bosses, rolling over loot, seeing someone get owned by trash mobs...all that stuff is fun. But after years of mind numbing down time, or dealing with people who weren't prepared to raid seriously, etc...it takes a toll. And once you burn out there just isn't much for you to do, end game wise. Daily quests get tiring after only so long. I remember grinding Quel'Danas dailies nonstop, then grinding even more dailies in WOTLK (the ToTC dailies were super fun, especially the jousting). After WOTLK I was basically done with that concept, although Cata shook things up a bit by offering more variety/randomization to daily quests.

I had thought the speed runs/challenges would endear me to MoP, but they didn't feel meaningful in a random group. We used to time ourselves during daily instance runs back in TBC and WOTLK, stacking groups with the best players to quickly beat the new daily at 2AM and then going to bed, preferably after laughing at friends stuck in slower/worse groups. Maybe a way to fix that would be to offer more badges/rewards for challenges completed without using the LFG function. When I last logged on my server the general and raid chat was dominated by people looking to pair with 2-3 people for a LFR run, which just kills my soul to see. Bleh.

What does GW2 do for endgame, outside of dungeons?

[chronovore]

Stop with the shitty GW2 shilling. NO ONE FUCKING CARES ABOUT THAT SHIT GAME

I like reading Etiolate's posts. Why does it bother you so much. It's not even like Magus' insane rants about games he's playing where he writes a wall of text, but doesn't bother to mention the title of the game he's been playing.

[etiolate]

What does GW2 do for endgame, outside of dungeons?

GW2 isn't bimodal in its game design. You don't rush to max level and then change from how you played leveling to a new raid-instance based playstyle.

Basically every part of GW2 is also a part of max-level play. And about every part of the game scales you to the level of content while keeping rewards to roughly your character's level.

So max level activities are:

Instanced:
-All Dungeons :: Emphasis on Explorable Mode Dungeons. You scale to the level of the dungeon and your rewards are based upon your character's level. So all dungeons are relevant.
-Fractals of the Mists ::

A small collection of instanced 5 man dungeons that you do in sections of three or four at a time. For every section you complete, your FOTM level goes up. You start at level 1. After doing a set of fractals, you go up to level 2. You can then enter again at level 2 and face three random mini-dungeons plus a boss path encounter. You pass that, you go up to level 3. As you level up, three dungeons get harder. After level 10, Agony is introduced. Agony is a special monster attack that does heavy damage over time. Around level 15 or so, you need to start having some agony resist. You can get that getting Ascended items.

As you level up, rewards increase, and you get more Fractal Relic tokens. You exchange the tokens for items from a vendor. This is one way of getting Ascended items. FotM goes up to like level 50 or 60. Agony and difficulty keeps increasing with higher levels, but so do rewards.
-Finishing Your Personal Story :: Most people hit max level before finishing the personal story. I finished mine a month or so after I had hit max level. There's a new story quest every couple of levels.

Open World:
-World Bosses and Dragons :: A selection of world bosses and dragon meta events offer good rewards and large-scale open world pve content. Most of them are on timers, with some less timer-based and more pre-event based. Each of these bosses and dragons have pretty good rewards for downing them, and each offers a daily chest for completing their event. At this point, there's a large range of difficulty between them. At the most difficult, there's Tequatl the Sunless which requires like a 60-80 man organized raid on voicechat. Tequatl rewards a daily chest per 25% health dropped, and then the usual big monster chest drop at the end. Tequatl is the only world boss that can drop Ascended Weapons, as far as I know. Next hardest is Karka Queen, which requires some organization and four pre-events to be completed within a time frame to make her spawn. Our GAF guild does her about once a week. She gives two chests. After that, the meta bosses all have the same rewards with varying degrees of difficulty, Shadow Behemoth, the Shatterer, and Frozen Maw Shaman are very easy. Claw of Jormag, Fire Elemental, and the Giant Golem have wiped some bad players.
-Champion Runs :: Champion Bosses are a step below World Bosses, but can be more difficult. Every Champion drops a Champion loot bag which has a chance at rare exotic weapons, high tier crafting mats, and other goodies. There are often multiple Champions per zone. Places like Frostgorge Sound, Orr, and Queensdale tend to have Champion trains running. This is where a group of players bunch up, run around the map, finding and killing Champions over and over. Sort of fun, but can get tiring. Good money maker.
-Invasions :: These are new and result of the Living Story. They are a lot like Rift's Rift portal invasions. Basically, a message pops up on everyone's screen saying "Scarlet's Minions are invading ...." and then you can go to that zone and see it taken over by legions of invading forces. These invasions often have Champions, tons of mobs, tons of xp and loot. If you complete each invasion, then Scarlet shows up and you can fight her. If you down Scarlet, you get a chest. You also get a reward for participating and completing each phase of the invasion. Most often these days, the Invasions aren't completed, so the end rewards are less than if you down Scarlet.
-Temple Runs :: These are somewhere between meta events and boss events. In Orr, there are several Temples belonging to the old Human Gods. To open a temple, and gain access to the Temple's special vendor, you have to complete a meta event for the temple and down a final boss. Temples like Balthazar, Grenth, and Lyssa are actually harder events than many of the world bosses. If you want temple vendor gear or Obsidian Shards, these are pretty important.
-World Completion :: Exploration in general is a big part of GW2. The game monitors a checklist of things to discover and do for each map. If you 100% a checklist for a map, then you get a map completion rewards with a ton of crafting mats, some gear and gold. If you 100% the whole world, then you get a special title, a star next to your name, and an item required in order to make Legendary items. I am still only at 91% world completion, but I haven't focused that hard on it. Some people do and got 100% in the first month of the game's release.
-Crafting :: Ascended and Legendary items - Crafting gives you XP and is required for making the most powerful weapons in the game. It's only a 5-10% increase in stats for some weapons, but a lot of people making getting a Legendary Weapon their main goal at endgame.
-Guild Missions :: These are special events you unlock through leveling up your Guild. Guild Missions are broken into several categories. These are Bounty Hunts, Guild Puzzles, Guild Rushes, Guild Treks, and Guild Challenges. Bounty Hunts pop up a selection of NPCs out in the world, with a general clue to their location, and the guild must hunt down each name on their bounty list. These are little open world boss fights with different mechanics for each bounty NPC. Guild Puzzles are open world mini-dungeons/jumping puzzles that your guild unlocks. These are the best part of Guild Missions and also feature some of the prettiest sights in the game. Each puzzle has a different set of challenges, such as jumping puzzles, simple mix and match puzzles, and a large labyrinth. Guld Rushes are little races you try to finish as a guild. All of these races transform you into some sort of creature and send you off on an obstacle course around some part of the open world. The spider one is the best one. The Karka one is actually hard. Guild Treks give you a list of locations with clues to their whereabouts in their name. Your guild sets out to find each location and touch a special marker to mark your discovery. Guild Challenges are group events designed around 10 or more people. Sometimes its a multi-person escort, or a protect this area mission with multiple enemies coming from all directions.
All Guild Missions have pretty damn good rewards and can earn you Ascended Trinkets.
-Jumping Puzzles :: The world is filled with fun little jumping puzzles that aren't always easy to notice. Completing these gets you a reward chest. These are done mostly for fun.
-Mini-Dungeons :: Often one and the same with a jumping puzzle. These are open world mini-dungeons that sometimes must be unlocked to open. Some examples are the Font of Rhand, which must have its pre-events done so that the portal opens up. Another is a secret Hylek lair that you open up by picking up rocks and throwing them at a gong. The gong summons the guards, which opens the door. Completing these leads to a chest.
-Exploration in General :: The strongest aspects of GW2 are its combat and its world design. Beyond the Mini-Dungeons and Jumping Puzzles, the Hearts, and the world completion, there's still a ton to discover. Areas are hidden away, and there's rare events that players often don't know exist in the game. Last month, I finally finished both organ puzzles. There's two Organs hidden in the world, and playing the GW2 theme on them unlocks a treasure chest. Just a cool little thing about the world.

PVP STUFF
-Hot Join PVP :: This sucks honestly
-Structured Team PVP :: Much better than Hot Join, but still limited in game modes. I hope they offer Capture the Flag, Death Match, and a real GvG style mode in the future.
-World v World V World :: Massive battles between three servers over four large maps. Right now, this is what keeps me logging in. I've done just about everything else except a few dungeon paths and 100% world completion. WvWvW and the Living Story get me to keep logging in. Well that and the GAF Guild being one of the better MMO guilds I've had. (Honestly, once things go to Community side on GAF, they stop being shitholes.)

WuvWuv is four maps filled with supply camps, towers, and keeps. You take supply camps to gather supply and then use the supply to build siege weapons and repair walls and gates. The objective is to capture and hold most of the map's camps, towers, and keeps.

World V World has its own progression system where you level up in rank. I am rank 150 right now, making me a Bronze Invader. Other players on your server don't see your rank, but the hostile players on the other servers do see your rank. Often, people with lower ranks will scamper off from me. I imagine they just see the rank and assume it's an ass whooping coming. It's really just a statement towards time investment though. Some players are like rank 600 something. I have max guard leech and guard attack, and have leveled up some of my siege skills. Basically, by doing all the things in WvWvW, you earn World XP. You then level up in rank, and each time you rank up, you get an ability point to spend in a various selection of abilities only relevant to World V World V World. Most of these abilities revolve around supply and siege weapons.

This and the Tequatl boss fight are the two things closest to raiding in GW2. I have and sometimes use a Commander tag. This is a tag that I can flip on and it makes my presence on any map visible to others on my server. This allows people to follow me and basically know where to go. I use it in PVE for Tequatl, World Invasions, and Guild Missions. It's main purpose is for WvWvW, where large groups of upwards of 60+ people follow a commander around a map and (hopefully) listen to their instructions on voice chat.

The large scale fights are intense and require team builds that include tanky beefy frontlines, support players, DPS, and utility + tricks. Utility and Tricks is where I come in as a Mesmer. However, I have also designed builds for being a commander and being at the frontline. I currently run a build that's tanky while effecient, making me able to Command and also solo roam around the map, taking out sentries, supply yaks and supply camps.

WuvWuv has also got me a cult following. I can't really explain this one. I first commanded in WvWvW when the other commanders tricked me into it. They were drunk, and just started following me around the map while I was doing havok. I asked, "is my commander tag bugged?" and they all said yes. I trusted them because these are the guys I normally run with. Like, people on my in-game friends list. SO they trick me into turning my commander tag on and the next thing I know I have 60 people following me. I then proceed to just drive the giant zerg and kill the other servers over and over for fun. After this, they all got obsessed with me. It was just the one guild at first, but now its the entire WvWvW server population. If I talk in Map Chat, chances are I get sudden reactions from players I don't really know.

(Image removed from quote.)

That's the sort of reaction I get. I still don't understand it. I posted on the official forums with my character name in my signature. I then had a couple people immediately post ZED ZEBES ZED ZED afterwards, and then they got their posts infracted and deleted for being off-topic. So I dropped my signature. It's silly, but harmless.

Living World
-Every two weeks, there's a new living story content update. These updates range in type of content from all over. This month has been Halloween update, World v World League Season 1 (part of why I am playing and commanding more so we can win silver league), and Tower of Madness. Next week is the fourth bit of content from the Living World this month, where players can finally enter the Tower of Madness. I have no idea what it's really like inside, because ANet is overly secretive. But we'll see.

Anyways, Living Story updates get people together doing whatever its about. Each Living Story update has its own meta achievement, and completing these leads to some sort of reward. This leads to achievement hunting. Achievements are their own endgame in GW2. Your achievement score actually adds up to rewards. As you gain in achievement score, you unlock account wide XP, Gold, Karma, and Magic Find bonuses. You also get gold, laurels, and even Gems as rewards. I've earned about 1200 gems off of my Achievemnt score, which is equal to about $15 worth of gem purchases.

Dailies and Monthlies
-This is less a separate thing and more just a reward system for doing all the things in game. Instead of daily quests, GW2 has daily achievements. These are a list of around 12 achievements each day and about 8 each month. You only need to do five for the daily and four for the monthly. Completing these gets you Achievement Points and a daily/monthly reward.

That's the list of things I have done or do at max level. I list them all because the game scales you to the level of content and rewards you based upon your level. This means that most of the content is rather relevant at max level.

[etiolate]

Really liking the Nightmare Tower update so far. Beat it on two characters. Ran it twice on Mesmer. It's sort of a hybrid between an open world dungeon, Towers of Druaga, and a story instance. You enter the Tower and it ports you inside the tower as if it was its own zone. Then you enter the tower and try to work your way up it with other players. There's three floors, with repair stations and check points at the start of each floor. Along the way, there's Nightmare Chambers you can enter to join an instance where you fight a boss that's based upon some character or foe from your past. Not all the Nightmare Chambers are open at once, so you have to get through the maze to find the open ones. At the top floor, toxin is everywhere and you have to find safe spots to get the toxin off. At the very top of the tower is the final boss instance, which is s sequence of three fights and then the final boss fight. There's champion bosses and events along the way up the tower as well.

[etiolate]

1. Got my Necro to level 80 finally. I really started to get bored of playing her towards the end, but now I have full access to traits and gear. Dolled  her up already, but gonna take a break from playing her.
2. I am in the Edge of the Mists testing beta. Still early in dev with not alot of systesm working yet. The area is beautiful. I have screenshots and there's no restriction on images or video.
3. Got my Ele to 40. She is an Asuran who protects cows.