Wii sales have fallen, but Emceegrammar is still confusedly raping his "console"

[Himu]

I don't like it in Sunshine either, but in Sunshine I found they'd make it more varied.

Like, the coast level with the oil place or whatever. The first time you visit, you fight a giant squid boss. The second time you visit, you race on baby squids, the next time you do it you do something completely different. In Mario 64, I found you often took the same paths, repeatedly.

Even the game I consider the best 3d platformer, Jak 2, does the revisit levels thing. But you gain access to new parts of levels with  new abilities, so it doesn't end up feeling regurgitated. Also, the game's difficulty spikes lend really well to this. At the beginning of the game you may be struggling with a level, but you end up mastering it. You come back, and kick ass to the point where your past struggles make you laugh at yourself.

In Jet Grind Radio, at the end of the game, the game combines all the levels you visited previously into one giant level, interconnected, with pathways, shortcuts, and different routes for strategic advantage. You have to memorize every route, because you only have so much time to get every tag and pull this off well in order to get a Jet score.

So no, my issue is not having to repeat levels, some other games do this. However, I think they do it far better than Mario 64, where it got boring because of the level repetition. You almost always end up taking the same path, even if you have a different goal. That's boring to me.

[Purple Filth]

Didn't like Mario 64 or Sunshine.

Wasn't a fan of the 3d Mario games.

The only hope left is to play Galaxy someday before officially not giving a fuck.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

My last post in this thread.

I came in here mostly to point out that the Blue Ocean Strategy is highly flawed and it gave Nintendo a false sense of security that is thumping them now that anyone who wanted to buy Wii Fit has bought it.  Not to say Nintendo is in any danger, as they're still making money hand over fist, but the third party scene is barren because Nintendo, being Nintendo, decided cultivating third party support was no longer necessary.  That or they'd point and laugh at how third parties don't get the system, which definitely isn't going to force someone like Konami to scramble to free up some cash to make Metal Gear Solid 5.  I could see Nintendo's point given how despite handing out the olive branches to formerly scorned third parties during the Game Cube era, they wound up just porting the games to the PS2 anyway.

Although it is a much better strategy than Sony, which was to effectively take $5 billion (most likely $5.5 - 6 billion before they can make a profit) and flush it down the toilet.  At least Nintendo had obscenely low cost hardware and unambitious software charged at a full price, ensuring profits no matter how shitty it might have done overall.  Sony essentially gambled huge on Blu-Ray and the reputation of the PlayStation name.  It might have won them the format war but this was a pyrrhic battle at the very rosiest of evaluations.  Even if they do make money, I really doubt that it will be enough to even come close to making a decent percentage back after their crippling losses.  PS4 will definitely be a different beast although it has the great advantage of being in a time where Blu-Ray drives will be under $100, if not $50-60.  I'd still like to know how much the total loaded costs of the PS3 were; especially if the Slim, still losing money, was a 70% cost reduction of the original PS3.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was over $1000.  Someone needs to write a tell-all book about that shit.

As for Sunshine, I agree there was some variety but this existed in Mario 64 and also, there is the fact that it is a game made in mid 1996.  I had a lot of fun with Mario 64 but I thought Sunshine was extremely disappointing.  Galaxy takes what you're talking about (in terms of level variety) and does it x10.  You should get around to playing it someday, it is a good game.  Galaxy 2 looks interesting as well but probably won't have the same "wow" factor that the original had.  The biggest beefs I had with Sunshine was the overall buggy gameplay.  Nintendo tended to have some well designed games (except Mario Kart 64, which was another glitch fest) but Sunshine fucked the dog on that front.  I hated having to be blind to whatever was in front of me because the camera would not move and it would always fail in the tightest of areas, when you needed it the most.  To get those blue coins (big complaint #2) could be hell because the camera would not cooperate enough.  It was a step back from Mario 64 and was well below par for what other platformers were offering.  I hated the blue coins that forced you to go through grueling exercises in getting obscure hard to reach areas to get a coin.  This would be ok if done once or twice.  However, Nintendo decided not to do a couple of levels and just put them all over the place.  This is not good gameplay.  Galaxy was challenging without using the old chestnut of poorly designed obstacles; Sunshine was almost nothing but if you wanted to get anything of challenge.  Lastly it had one of the worst boss fights out there and definitely lends credibility to my "Nintendo gave up halfway and shipped it out to beat out the Fall 2002 PS2 heavyweights" idea.

TL;DR - Please check out Galaxy.

[bork]

I'm just not much of a fan of Nintendo's 3D efforts.  Mario Kart translated well enough, although Double Dash was boring shit.  But with the Marios and Zelda, the 2D iterations are just vastly better in comparison.  SMB1-3, SMW, LttP, and Link's Awakening shit all over everything that came after them.

And FUCK collect-a-thons.  A big FUCK YOU to Rare for starting it with Donkey Kong Country.  I hate that kind of crap.

[youtube=560,345]S0IomLvEmiE[/youtube]

better than mario 64? lol, no

guess youtube is jacked up atm

Oh boy, shitty youtube video really proves that point.   

And Jumping Flash! 2 was at about the same time as Mario 64.  The original was released over a year earlier.  And when the Japanese JF!2 was released, it also came with the American version of the original (had some slight improvements) bundled in for free.  I had never played the original before, so this was an amazing value back in 1996.  The shop I worked at had recently imported N64s and Mario, and I had JF!2 set up on another TV for comparison.  People thought Jumping Flash was cooler and more impressive, I shit you not.  But it was quickly forgotten and Mario demolished it in sales.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Y'know, I'm not going to analyze the games I like to death.  The best indicator of what has held up is to simply go back and replay a game and see if I get bored or not.  I can still play Mario 64 on an annual basis and have alot of fun.  A big part of this is just how many awesome abilities they gave you to traverse the levels.  Flying, swimming, etc all just feel right.  Compare this to a alot of other games whereas the novelty of 3d was the primary engrossing factor, but then you go back and play it today and it's a snore.  Ocarina of Time comes to mind.

[etiolate]

You're all fucking distinguished mentally-challenged, but Himuro might have qualified himself for lifetime banishment from game design discussion.

Mario 64 was an aesthetic rush on nearly every level of game aesthetics. And ruined it for real platforming? Without Mario, real platforming might have vanished in the 3d era.  Everything else was either 2d level design in polygons or a simple adventure game with cartoonie characters.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Well, Himuro was being straight about why Okami is an overdeveloped turd, so he's only a little hit and miss.

[Human Snorenado]

Y'know, I'm not going to analyze the games I like to death.

You don't like games, tho.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I like some games, not most of them.  Kinda derivative really.

[Human Snorenado]

You like Wii Music and Wii Fit.  Those are not games.  End of discussion.  You are a melon headed moonchild.

[EmCeeGrammar]

That doesn't even mean anything.  I also like excitebots and the new tiger woods.  Been playing some Wii Sports resort, mostly for the bowling and table tennis.  Some occassional sword fighting.  Whenever I listen to a podcast I'll try to do another run at gradius rebirth or contra rebirth.

edit: Been doing some animal crossing too, but I don't have much time for it and usually just tend to my flowers.

[Sho Nuff]

Silicon Graphics hardware gives you "Oooooo"

Take back what I said about N64 3rd party games looking interesting and replace that with "ass"

[Great Rumbler]

Hey, Cruisin' World was fun.

[Beezy]

Mario 64 was an aesthetic rush on nearly every level of game aesthetics.

...

Shut the fuck up, seriously.

[Van Cruncheon]

etoilet: videogaming's jaydubya

[EmCeeGrammar]

I don't think etoliate wishes death on people he disagrees with.

[TakingBackSunday]

gaming is getting, gasp, serious business on the 'bore

[Himu]

You're all fucking distinguished mentally-challenged, but Himuro might have qualified himself for lifetime banishment from game design discussion.

Mario 64 was an aesthetic rush on nearly every level of game aesthetics. And ruined it for real platforming? Without Mario, real platforming might have vanished in the 3d era.  Everything else was either 2d level design in polygons or a simple adventure game with cartoonie characters.

What

I'm just not much of a fan of Nintendo's 3D efforts.  Mario Kart translated well enough, although Double Dash was boring shit.  But with the Marios and Zelda, the 2D iterations are just vastly better in comparison.  SMB1-3, SMW, LttP, and Link's Awakening shit all over everything that came after them.

Disagree on Zelda, agree on Mario.

[The Fake Shemp]

Criticizing Mario 64 would be the equivalent of crucifying Jesus Christ during the first century.

[cool breeze]

 

[Himu]

I spit on Jesus.

[Oblivion]

Never played Jumping Flash, but I'm wondering why people are comparing it to SM64. It'd be like comparing Call of Duty to Gears of War.

I didn't realize that what makes a great Mario game the setting.

*shrug*

I think many would agree that it's definitely a big part of it. I mean, if something like story or character development is important to some people about Zelda, or graphics (like with WW and Yoshi's Island) then it's not too much of a stretch to understand why some might feel the same way about settings.

I'm not going to lie, I think Yoshi's Island is pretty overrated.  The levels from the midpoint of the game on felt blurred together.  Maybe it was the art style but the game bored the hell out of me.  The mini bosses were creative as well as some of the earlier level themes but the rest made me feel tired more than anything.  Not to mention some of the levels took forever to complete, chiefly consisting of meandering level designs.  I'll admit that the game was better than the series it was trying to aim at (DKC) but it is probably the most overrated Mario in the series.  Although it might be topped by NSMB, depending on how people look back on it a few years from now.

Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, and Super Mario Galaxy worked great because the levels (or star missions) were short and exciting.  If you've ignored the surreal stuff, that is too bad.  Although these days, the surreal element doesn't hold up in Mario 64 but in 1996-1997, it was fucking awesome.  Galaxy is still great in this regard and the little fanservice touches here and there is one of the few instances in gaming history where it added something to the game.  Although if you're not a Mariofag, you'll probably miss them.

I'd also like to know the rewarding parts of Sunshine.  Only thing I can think of is the town atmosphere and interacting with NPCs inside the level but that was easily countered by the half assed Disney inspired FLUDD.  That and the final boss fight was the most anti-climactic ever.  Seriously, it is a game that Nintendo most likely said "fuck it" or got pressure from above to push it out before Fall 2002.  Neither of which would surprise me much.

Damn, agreed on nearly everything here. I think YI has some pretty excellent level design, but I like the mechanics of the proper Mario games a lot more. Also wasn't enamored with the art style like everyone else.

[bork]

Never played Jumping Flash, but I'm wondering why people are comparing it to SM64. It'd be like comparing Call of Duty to Gears of War.

No it wouldn't.  Too many people seem to be afraid to compare games, these days.  And it's not like you'd know, having never played it.

Jumping Flash! was a better example of what a 3D platformer should have been like than what Mario 64 turned out to be.  It was also almost entirely PLATFORMING, which is why it kicked so much fucking ass.  There were 1-2 stages set indoors that played out more like a maze/shooter, however.

Whatever happened to Exact, anyway?  They made the Fantavision games then just vanished.

EDIT: Here's Geograph Seal, released in '94 for the Sharp X68000.  Precursor to JF!.

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Oblivion]

You would think that camera perspectives would be somewhat important...

[bork]

You would think that camera perspectives would be somewhat important...

They are both 3D platformers.  Yes, JF! is first-person, but it's still a platformer.  Like Mario.  It's not an FPS.  The first-person perspective works very well in the game's favor.  It's surprising that so few platform games using this perspective were ever released.

[Beezy]

It's surprising that so few platform games using this perspective were ever released.

GOTG, Mirror's Edge

[Himu]

Never heard of or played Geograph Seal. Damn that's some old school shit. Listen to the music.

THE 90'S

[FlameOfCallandor]

etoilet: videogaming's jaydubya

A.K.A. someone you disagree with. 


Also Mario 64 was and is awesome.

[Jansen]

Never played Jumping Flash, but I'm wondering why people are comparing it to SM64. It'd be like comparing Call of Duty to Gears of War.

actually it's just comparing a shitty game (jumping flash) to a good one (mario 64).

it's really that simple.

[Junpei the Tracer!]

The Wii seems to be looking up in 2010. NMH2,Metroid,S&P2,SMG2 and um think thats it. Good times ahead.

[bork]

Never played Jumping Flash, but I'm wondering why people are comparing it to SM64. It'd be like comparing Call of Duty to Gears of War.

actually it's just comparing a shitty game (jumping flash) to a good one (mario 64).

it's really that simple.

Please, enlighten us as to why Jumping Flash! is a shitty game.

[Jansen]

because it sucks

[Sho Nuff]

because it sucks

if u dont shut up im going to turn into scropion and throw a harpoon

[M3wThr33]

Never played Jumping Flash, but I'm wondering why people are comparing it to SM64. It'd be like comparing Call of Duty to Gears of War.

Don't fucking make comparisons off of shit you know nothing about.

[Sho Nuff]

"As you probably know, the current situation of Wii cannot be defined as healthy," he said, detailing this year's decline in Wii sales in Japan to well below the 50k unit sales mark per week."

http://computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=226584

[etiolate]

Mario 64 was an aesthetic rush on nearly every level of game aesthetics.

...

Shut the fuck up, seriously.

May sound like hyperbole, but when thinking of the question of what game gave the biggest aesthetic rush, Mario 64 wins out. The sense of inertia, 3d and sound were amazing. Dire Dire Docks, with the echo of mario's voice and the soothing music, combined with backflips into the water... what else tops that?

[Human Snorenado]

Oh fuck, this thread is still going?