Avatar: Willco still hates it

[Great Rumbler]

Jinfash for Super-Icon!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Jinfash is made of pure Iconium

[Reb]

Jinfash is made of pure Iconium

Isn't that the open source version?

[Diunx]

I love this thread

[Diunx]

I have only see a telesynch online, same with doctor Parnassus but a friend of mine claims that she is downloading a dvd rip of that one.

[brawndolicious]

As far as concepts go, I think the whole idea of the avatars themselves is interesting, even if some really obscure comic had done it earlier. I really liked the way the avatar body gave Jake freedom that his paralyzed human body was no longer capable of giving him. The scene where he runs for the first time in his Na'vi body carried a lot of emotional weight, in my opinion. I liked how the Na'vi world became the real world to him and the human world and his mission became like a dream - I think in that aspect there's a much stronger parallel to 12 Monkeys than there is to Dances With Wolves or The Last Samurai or Man on a Horse. Jake never fights against the natives and gets captured; he moves back and forth between the two worlds freely. I liked the idea of a world having a biologically-based neural network. I liked how the Na'vi really are one with their environment in a way that hasn't been done before in any film I've seen. In fact, the whole idea of taking a spiritual system like what you might find in other fantasy works, but making it completely biologically-based was quite interesting to me.
Execution wise, I really liked the connection between Jake and Neytiri. That was just done perfectly. I LOVED the flight sequences. They were actually really emotional for me. I loved the sense of wonder that the world evoked. I loved the pacing of the film except for about twenty minutes just before the final battle starts to kick off. I liked Quarritch. He was just an awesome villain, even if he was in some ways a typical military badass. I just think he was the best military badass antagonist since General Woundwort. The whole military vs. science thing has been done before, but not in the same way. I loved the cinematography. The action scenes were absolutely fantastic.
Getting into spoiler territory:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I liked how Neytiri saved Jake at the end. I felt a great deal of emotional resonance in that scene, particularly when she jumped into the lab and put the mask over his face and said "Jake! My Jake!" I feel like adding the following to my list of criteria for a perfect woman: "Must be able to crouch defensively over my comatose body and hiss threateningly at my enemies." I loved the scale of Home Tree and the sense of awful loss when the missiles took it down. It was such a symbol of the Na'vi culture, and to watch it fall was like watching something incredibly beautiful die.
I liked the significance of the "I see you" line at the end when Neytiri is seeing Jake's human form for the first time. The context of the story and characters by that point in the film transformed the line into something far deeper, in a similar manner to how the line "There's no place like home" was transformed at the end of The Wizard of Oz. It's the same line of dialogue you've heard before, but it just carries so much more weight by that point and has transcended any possible cliche.

[close]

To sum it all up, I just loved the journey that the film takes you on. I don't think any other film has done anything like it in that regard, or even come that close.
That's not it at all. I just don't think you should judge any work of art by the metaphors you're reading into it, because they are entirely dependent on your own subjective viewpoint. Unless Jimminy Cricket is jumping out and giving you the moral of the story, or unless the story is clearly an allegory, then this kind of metaphor is always in the eye of the beholder.

okay that's just a really shallow way of looking at a movie GS.  It has no subtlety and the dialogue is all crap but hey, it has some cool flying scenes and a hissing bitch.

As far as achieving anything impressive writing-wise, it fails.  There's no reason for anybody to care about the parts where they explain the Navi culture and Jake's gradual but predictable change of heart.  This movie just doesn't take any chances or do anything at all original.  Why would anybody care about the social commentary in this movie?

[Tieno]

Some of the science in Avatar.
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440

First, a little background: I’m a professor of astrophysics who has
searched for planets, worked on SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence) programs, and taught classes on life in the universe.
Right now, I’m helping to build a global network of telescopes to
search for planets and supernovae.

That is a long-winded way of saying that it is part of my job
description to think about the possibility of life on other worlds.
So when James Cameron makes one of the most expensive movies ever
made, and one that puts us right in the middle of an alien culture… in
3D.... well to say I’m interested doesn’t begin to cover it.

Since the movie has already been reviewed to death, I’m going to focus
on something that hasn’t been covered yet – the science. But while
this is interesting exercise, for me it is story first, and science
second. I’d put it like this:

Copernicus’ Law of Science Fiction: Bending the laws of
physics out of service to the story is fine, doing it out of ignorance
is unconscionable.

I don’t mind if the ships in Star Trek can go faster than the speed of
light – otherwise the story would be pretty boring. And I know
there’s no sound in space, but I want Star Destroyers to
rumble, and the Millennium Falcon to have that iconic whine. But if a
director casually gets science wrong for no real reason other than
that he is stupid or lazy (see ARMAGEDDON, THE CORE, and THE DAY AFTER
TOMORROW, to name a few), then to hell with him. If the filmmakers
don’t respect the intelligence of the audience, I’m not going to
respect the movie.

Fortunately, James Cameron has a knack for science that rivals his
moviemaking skills.




THE SCIENCE OF AVATAR

Historically, movie directors have had their asses kicked by
astronomers as far as taking us to exotic worlds. For the most part,
movie planets look like an extreme form of Earth -- they almost always
have an oxygen atmosphere at an Earthlike pressure and gravity. Movie
planets don’t even come close to matching the diversity of worlds in
our solar system: the surface of Io is a mottled, sulfurous
orange-yellow, constantly being repaved by volcanoes shooting hundreds
of miles into the sky. Titan has a thick smog atmosphere that blots
out the sun and rains hydrocarbons. Mars has planet-wide dust storms
and a 17-mile-high volcano that nearly reaches above the atmosphere.
Venus has a crushing, choking sulfur dioxide atmosphere with a
pressure 92 times that of earth, and a temperature that can melt lead.
Enceladus shoots ice geysers into space. And the real Pandora orbits
within the rings of Saturn. These are only a few of the hundreds of
planets, minor planets, and moons in our solar system: we’ve
discovered hundreds elsewhere in the galaxy, some of which seem even
crazier: super-Earths, nearly boiling puffed-up Jupiters, and objects
that may be free-floating rogue planets without a star.

So I can’t think of a better use for 3d and a few hundred million
dollars of effects than filmmakers starting to raise the bar to
finally approach the awesome reality of nature. Due to the limits of
budgets, finances, and creativity, I can’t think of another film that
has attempted something near the scale of what Cameron has done here.

I’ll address the different aspects of the science in sections.




FLORA AND FAUNA


From a visual perspective, Avatar’s Pandora is breathtaking. While
most movies have only hinted at the exotic nature of their worlds with
an establishing matte painting or two, here Cameron takes us on an
elaborate three-dimensional tour though various habitats, from the
treetops to the forest floor. He’s created a whole ecosystem, from
semi-intelligent trees to giant land and air creatures. Most seem
inter-related via symbiotic relationships. In fact, Cameron has taken
the Gaia hypothesis, that the biosphere of the Earth is itself a kind
of living entity, and sexed it up – the biosphere of Pandora is
essentially a god, and it’s networked! Creatures can plug into each
other via what amounts to USB hair and fiber optic roots. While some
of these ideas are not without their faults (see below), Cameron gets
points for creativity – this is true science fiction, not space opera.

I do have one minor complaint, that given their networking abilities,
the Na’vi should not be so technologically inferior to the humans. On
Earth, the largest barrier to technological progression was that
information that existed in the brains of primitive humans could not
be easily shared or preserved. As soon as writing was developed,
suddenly it was possible to store information outside of the brain,
and record and build upon knowledge. The knowledge available to a
human or tribe went from one brain’s worth (and a minimal amount of
oral tradition), to thousands, and ultimately billions of brains’
worth. The result was a technological and social explosion. Hominids
have had technology like spears for about half a million years, but
only 7,000 years after the development of writing we had left the
planet. And the sharing of knowledge is still undergoing a revolution
with the development of the internet. Now we have instantaneous
access to the combined knowledge of the entire history of humanity.

Since the Na’vi have had the ability to download information and share
it in a massive network for long periods of time (evolutionary
timescales), they should be way ahead of us in terms of technological
development. Still, I have to give Cameron a pass here. It is
thematically necessary that the Na’vi are technologically primitive,
and their root-network is necessary to the plot. Maybe you could say
that they could have evolved more technology, but they don’t need it
or want it. Still, that reeks of the “Noble savage” idea, and I have
to agree with Stephen Pinker that that is a bunch of hoo-ha.

But my major complaint from an evolutionary standpoint is that there
is no way in hell that life on Pandora would evolve to look so similar
to Earth life: there are humanoids, space horseys, hammerhead
rhinoceri, and pseudo-pterodactyl beasties. And to make it worse,
they have DNA, and the DNA is close enough to our own that Na’vi and
human DNA can be combined! Again, I have to give Cameron a pass.
First, it is easier for the audience to relate to familiar things.
And more than that there is a significant plot point that I won’t
spoil towards the end of the film that hinges on humans and Na’vi
having similar DNA.

One way out of both my evolutionary nitpicks is the panspermia
hypothesis -- that life in the galaxy was seeded in multiple places by
an advanced civilization. But even then the odds against evolution
producing such similar animals on different planets is astronomical.
Since we have a clear record of evolution on Earth, some civilization
would have had to keep taking specimens from earth, first
pterodactyls, and ultimately humans (after they evolved), and then
would have had to deliver them to Pandora, possibly modified via
genetic engineering. That would be an interesting sequel: humans and
Na’vi come together to confront their godlike humanoid ancestors!

Grade on astrobiology: A for the scale of the ecosystem, C for being
too much like Earth – call it a B overall.




WORLD AND STAR SYSTEM


Pandora is a moon of Polyphemus, a fictional gas giant orbiting Alpha
Centauri A. I’ve always wanted to know what the view would be from
the moon of a gas giant. Can you imagine a quarter of the sky being
taken up by a massive cloud-covered planet visible night or day? We
get to see it in Avatar, and since Jupiter is the king of the gods,
maybe majestic is an appropriate word to describe it. I wonder if
Cameron’s choice to set this on the moon of a gas giant wasn’t a slap
in the face to Lucas, as if to say “this is RETURN OF THE JEDI done
right.” (I know it is ambiguous in the Star Wars universe whether or
not Endor orbits a gas giant.)

But what had me really geeking out is the choice of the star system.
Alpha Centauri A is perfect. First, as the closest star system to the
sun (4.37 light years), it may well be the first star we travel to.
Second, it is familiar in that you can see it with the naked eye if
you live in the southern hemisphere – it is the brightest star in
Centaurus. Actually, what appears to be a single star can be resolved
as a binary system if you use a telescope. It is Alpha Centauri A, a
bit more massive than the sun (1.1 solar masses), and Alpha Centauri
B, a bit less massive than the sun (0.9 solar masses). The choice of
G-type stars near the mass of the sun is great – they last for
billions of years – plenty of time for life to evolve. They are in an
elliptical orbit around a common center of mass, which means they come
together and drift apart over the course of one 80 year orbit. The
two stars get as close as 11 astronomical units (an AU is the average
Earth-Sun distance; 11 AU is about the distance to Saturn), and get as
far apart as 36 AU (about the distance to Pluto).

Would you see the companion star (Alpha Cen B) in the sky from
Pandora? That depends on where it is in its orbit. At the farthest
distance it would be a few hundred times the brightness of the full
Moon as seen from Earth. But your eyes are logarithmic detectors, so
it would actually only seem a few times brighter than we perceive the
Moon. At its closest approach, Alpha Cen B would be a few thousand
times as bright as we see our Moon. This is not all that bright – in
comparison, on Earth the Sun is about half a million times brighter
than the Moon. So on Pandora, if Alpha Cen B is up in the daytime
then you might not even notice it, depending on how far away it is in
the sky from Alpha Cen A. But if it is up at night (as it would be
for half the year), it would never get completely dark – the sky would
just be kind of dark blue.

Technically, there is a third star in the system, Proxima Centauri,
but it is a tiny red dwarf a huge distance, about 12,000 AU, away – it
is not even clear it is bound to the system. At any rate, it would
not be prominent in the sky as seen from Pandora. Incidentally, my
first job as a graduate student was to help calibrate the fine
guidance sensors on the Hubble Space Telescope to help my advisor look
for planets around Proxima Centauri. Sadly, we didn’t find any.

It is an interesting question as to whether planets around either
Alpha Cen A or B could exist in stable orbits that would last for
billions of years. You might think they couldn’t because the gravity
of the other star would perturb any forming planet.
However, simulations show that at least at Earth-like distances,
stable planets can form in that system.

Grade for astronomy: for the choice of star system, setting in on a
moon, and around a gas giant, Cameron gets an A+.




THE STAR’S EFFECT ON LIFE


Electromagnetic radiation comes in many forms, gamma rays, x-rays,
ultraviolet, visual, infrared, and radio. Our eyes evolved to see in
the narrow range that the sun has its peak output -- the visual band
-- and the flora and fauna of Earth evolved pigments and colors that
work at these wavelengths. But this isn’t universal -- some animals
can see a narrower region of the spectrum than us, and others see
farther into the ultraviolet or infrared. Our cornea blocks most UV
light, but bees, for example, don’t have one and can see farther into
the UV. They can see patterns in flowers that we can’t.

In fact, colors are really something manufactured in our brain –
physically colors are just different wavelengths of light ranging
uniformly from short wavelengths (violet) to long (red). What we see
as blue or green or red helps us differentiate sky from grass from
blood, but to a creature from another world, all these things might
appear as the same color. In fact, you could imagine that bats might
use echolocation to “see” rough surfaces as one color and smooth
surfaces as another. So since colors are something created by our
brains and not intrinsic to the universe (only wavelengths of light
are), it is virtually certain Pandorans would see color differently
than we do.

Alpha Cen A has almost the same temperature as the Sun, but it is just
a bit hotter. As a result, the star puts out most of its light at
visual wavelengths just like the Sun. But the star’s output is only
part of the story – the oxygen and ozone in our atmosphere block much
of the ultraviolet light from the Sun, and water vapor blocks some of
the infrared light. Pandora doesn’t have an oxygen atmosphere (if the
movie mentioned what gasses it contains, I didn’t catch it), so we
might expect more of the ultraviolet light to reach the surface. The
creatures there might be able to see farther into the ultraviolet.
There might be all kinds of patterns that the inhabitants of Pandora
can see that just look blue to us. Maybe that’s which there are so
many blue colors in the film. To take this a step farther, I would
have loved to see a scene where a character sees beautiful colors or
patterns as an Avatar, only to have this beauty evaporate into a
uniform sea of blue when he sees the same vista with human eyes.

Another feature of Pandora adding to the ubiquitous shades of blue is
that bioluminescence seems to be a staple of the ecosystem. As
Massawyrm points out, this makes sense for a world that may spend days at a time
shrouded in darkness. Remember that a day occurs when Pandora rotates
on its axis. But it might take a month or so to orbit its gas giant,
which we know looms large in the sky, and could blot out the sun for
days.

Grade for the astrophysics: For the fact that this world doesn’t have
an oxygen atmosphere, and the plausible use of color, A.




PHYSICS


Since Pandora is a moon and is presumably smaller than the Earth, the
gravity would be lower. This is alluded to in the film, and creatures
do grow larger and survive falls from greater heights than you could
on Earth. I wonder if Cameron dialed in a different gravity to the
physics engine rendering everything. To my eye, for at least the
human scenes, the gravity looked just like Earth gravity, but then
again if the gravity is close the differences can be subtle.
Virtually all science fiction movies feature planets with gravity at
1g, since, of course, until now, filming has always been done on
Earth. Since here so much of the world was created inside the
computer, I would have liked to see this aspect pushed a bit farther.

In one of my biggest pet peeves regarding the science of Avatar, there
is one scene where the gas giant, Polyphemus, can clearly be seen to
be rotating in the span of about a second or two. Let’s say it
rotates about a degree out of 360 degrees in those 2 seconds. That
means it makes one rotation in 720 seconds, or 12 minutes! Jupiter
takes about 10 hours to rotate. So the gas giant in Avatar rotates
about 50 times faster than Jupiter. Winds on Jupiter can exceed 100
meters per second, so the winds on Polyphemus would have to exceed
5000 m/s – this is supersonic and clearly implausible. Here’s one
case where Cameron opted for visual effect over realism, but to me the
bargain isn’t worth it. It looks unrealistic and takes me right out
of the movie. But I do like the look of the clouds on Polyphemus –
they look like a cross between Neptune and Jupiter. The highlight is
a giant storm resembling Jupiter’s Great Red Spot. That is
particularly appropriate for Polyphemus, named after a mythological
cyclops.

But my biggest beef in Cameron’s trading physics for visuals is those
goddamn floating mountains. Seriously, floating mountains? How the
hell do they stay up there? This is such an egregious flouting of the
laws of physics that surely there is some reasoning behind it.

Between the fact that Pandora seems to be sort-of at 1g, the
impossible rotation of Polyphemus, and the floating mountains, physics
is one one area AVATAR gets a marginal fail on Copernicus’ Law of
Science Fiction. But on all the other aspects of science, Cameron
gets either a pass or passes with flying colors.

The dream of interstellar travel will only become a reality far beyond
our lifetimes. But I love the fact that today I can be deeply
immersed in not just a plausible, but a compelling alien world just by
putting on a pair of 3D glasses and visiting my local theater. Even
if I have to drive 100 miles to see it in IMAX, that is nothing
compared to interstellar distances! And I love that there is a
filmmaker that plays more than lip service to the science in his
films, stimulating discussion and thought about distant worlds among
geeks everywhere. I was inspired to do astronomy after seeing STAR
WARS as a kid. I’m willing to bet that a fair fraction of tomorrow’s
astronomers will have decided to devote their life to the discovery of
new worlds because of AVATAR.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440

[Tieno]

fucking tieno

homovonio x 2

[brawndolicious]

I guess I just look at movies in a much more shallow way than you do, am nintenho. 

I know that and I can understand why, but you're still wrong.

[brawndolicious]

There's nothing particularly engaging about what was written in the script.  You have to separate what Cameron did in the last ten years from what all the technical and artistically minded people did and you realize he was just sitting there massaging his balls to some bullshit social messages that don't really mean much.  Cameron himself made the worst parts of this movie.

[Ichirou]

L.A. Times/Envelope/Notes on a Season columnist Pete Hammond is flatly declaring that Avatar is now the front-runner for the Best Picture Oscar. Because it's "big" and grand and dazzling and selling tickets big-time, and because there was a effusive response from the mostly older membership when Avatar screened at the Academy theatre last Sunday night.

50-plus and retirement-age types were thought to be a hindrance to Avatar's chances of nabbing the big prize with their reputed tendency to under-value CG-driven spectacles, but Hammond is apparently persuaded that the gray geezer contingent is ready and willing to support James Cameron's fantasy epic.

Also factoring, says Hammond, are last weekend's $77 million opening (even with the northeastern blizzard slowing things down on Saturday), a $235-million-plus worldwide gross, an A rating from Cinemascore rating and an A+ from males younger than 25, not to mention major Golden Globe and Critics Choice Movie Award nominations, etc.

Green Shinobi's Evilbore Avatar Oscar Campaign is vindicated by, of all people, Pete Hammond and Jeffrey Wells.

[Barry Egan]

the academy awards aren't hard to dismiss. 

[The Fake Shemp]

I wouldn't dismiss them, but this pretty much takes away any credibility they have, although some will say that started once awards were given Crash and Gladiator.

[Herr Mafflard]

Okay. Two last questions for you before I leave for work. Think about them for awhile before answering.

1) If I say that I find certain characters to have depth and you say you don't, and if I find certain scenes to be emotionally engaging while you don't, am I seeing things that are not there, or are you missing things that are there?

2) How would you know?

Trawl through the internet dude, almost all the reviews state that the characters are one-dimensional. There's enough people out there echoing these sentiments that it carries weight.  

e.g. telegraph's review states the movie "Is a triumph of effects over affect."

[Great Rumbler]

Despite mounting losses and crumbling support, Willco continues the brave and noble fight against moviegoers and critics.

[Mandark]

the academy awards aren't hard to dismiss. 

fwiw, Cameron's the reason I stopped caring who they gave statues to.

[Kestastrophe]

I wouldn't dismiss them, but this pretty much takes away any credibility they have, although some will say that started once awards were given Crash and Gladiator.

Slumdog

[Barry Egan]

I wouldn't dismiss them, but this pretty much takes away any credibility they have

read this sentence again Willco  

[The Fake Shemp]

Despite mounting losses and crumbling support, Willco continues the brave and noble fight against moviegoers and critics.

The critics actually agree with me, I don't know what Internet you've been surfing. The only difference between its supporters and myself is that a Best Picture nomination should not be handed out on spectacle alone. If your screenplay is clumsy and the story is a retread of genre cliches, then really, really good visuals should not merit serious awards consideration.

... I meant what I said, Chipopo. I won't ever entirely dismiss the Oscars, because the are awarded by industry peers, but the Academy will kill its credibility as a legitimate film society by awarding Best Picture to Avatar. Just as I don't dismiss the MTV Movie Awards, but I don't consider them necessarily serious awards either.

[AdmiralViscen]

Holy shit @ GS taking up the flag after a half page of hilarity

[Cormacaroni]

Despite mounting losses and crumbling support, Willco continues the brave and noble fight against moviegoers and critics.

The critics actually agree with me, I don't know what Internet you've been surfing. The only difference between its supporters and myself is that a Best Picture nomination should not be handed out on spectacle alone. If your screenplay is clumsy and the story is a retread of genre cliches, then really, really good visuals should not merit serious awards consideration.

... I meant what I said, Chipopo. I won't ever entirely dismiss the Oscars, because the are awarded by industry peers, but the Academy will kill its credibility as a legitimate film society by awarding Best Picture to Avatar. Just as I don't dismiss the MTV Movie Awards, but I don't consider them necessarily serious awards either.

Well, that and the fact that they've actually SEEN the movie and you haven't

Come on Willco, we've all got blue (and furry!) balls here, just go see the fucking movie so you can troll it properly!

[The Fake Shemp]

I don't think you can say I've blown its weaknesses out of proportion when those quotes are pretty cut and dry. And I repeat, those are the glowingly positive reviews.

Come on Willco, we've all got blue (and furry!) balls here, just go see the fucking movie so you can troll it properly!

Again, why would I pay to see a movie I have no desire to see, even when its critical supporters say it's a beautiful spectacle, but not a very good movie? Pass. I would rather pay to see a legitimately good movie, like Up in the Air.

[AdmiralViscen]

http://www.boxofficeguru.com/weekend.htm

Still, Avatar was a giant at the box office and its figure would have been even higher had it not been for the blizzard. Fox reported that theaters in heavily-populated markets like New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington D.C. reported huge Friday-to-Saturday sales declines with some plunging by 70-80%. Grosses typically rise on Saturdays. Nationwide, Avatar bowed to $26.8M on Friday, slipped 5% to $25.5M on Saturday, and dipped a scant 3% to $24.7M on Sunday. Sunday ended up playing like another Saturday.

The road ahead looks encouraging for the Na'vi pic. Audiences have been loving the film giving it a terrific A average from CinemaScore. An exceptionally high 92% of those polled will definitely recommend the film. Adult men made up the largest quadrant as expected. Studio research showed that 57% of the crowd was male and 62% was 25 and older. Exhibitors have been racing the clock all year to get 3D screens installed in time for Avatar's opening and the new hardware, which allows for extra high ticket prices, paid off. 3D was available on 59% of the screens but they accounted for 71% of the gross. 2,032 theaters offered at least one extra-dimensional screen for a total of 3,124 3D screens including 178 in IMAX where consumers pay even more.

Mediocre effects-driven action films opening in mid-December typically can reach three times their opening weekend figure. Something as well-liked as Avatar could certainly play well through the holidays and quadruple its bow giving it a great chance of breaking $300M domestically. Should the legs be amazing, the cume would rise much higher. Of course, Cameron taught us all not to predict a final gross after just three days of release with Titanic which coincidentally also generated the second best December opening ever, at the time.

Critics were mostly positive on Avatar which also won four Golden Globe nominations last Tuesday including Best Picture - Drama and Best Director. The film's official reported budget is $230M, but industry insiders have estimated that the true production cost without marketing expenses is closer to $300M.

Cameron's films have always powered their way to muscular numbers overseas and Avatar was no exception as Fox rolled out the film in 106 international territories on 14,500 screens with Japan, China, and Italy being the only major markets still to come. The sci-fi actioner grossed a scorching $159.2M overseas this weekend boosting the global opening to a towering $236M. The figures were on par with the most recent worldwide assault from Hollywood - last month's 2012 - which launched with $65.2M domestically, $165M internationally, and $230M globally. That doomsday pic is now at $733M after five weeks of play and Avatar should be able to have better legs thanks to a stronger product and the upcoming holiday break. Its global gross should have no problem soaring higher.

[Cormacaroni]

Again, so you can troll it properly!

[The Fake Shemp]

I don't need to troll it. I can just quote people that actually like it.

Again, if you have to defend against its supporters, then that should probably tell you something.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I, Synthesizer Patel, hereby promise that I will watch Avatar once it comes out on home video.*

spoiler (click to show/hide)

*And the Rifftrax is available.

[close]

[Great Rumbler]

Willco has definitely made this thread at least thrice as epic as it otherwise would have been. You've got to give him that.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Willco, TAG OUT! I'll take it from here.

First order of business: supporters of Cameron's latest furry fuckfest are now known as "Avatards." Green Shinobi gets the special title of "Lawrence of Furabia."

[The Fake Shemp]

Again, I'm not even bashing it at this point. I just posted quotes from people who liked it. Damn me and my quotes from all these positive reviews! The critics that are nominating it for serious awards consideration are obviously out to get Glen Shinobi at the Avatar Defense Force!*

spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Or it's just a shallow spectacle.

[close]

[fistfulofmetal]

apparently you can see Neytiri's nipples here and there. I never saw a thing when I was watching it at IMAX. When I see it again this weekend I'll definitely be keeping my eye out.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

apparently you can see Neytiri's nipples here and there. I never saw a thing when I was watching it at IMAX. When I see it again this weekend I'll definitely be keeping my eye out.

      That's hot.

         /

[Great Rumbler]

Again, I'm not even bashing it at this point. I just posted quotes from people who liked it. Damn me and my quotes from all these positive reviews!

So, if you bought a Porche and found out that it had a couple of scratches in the paint, would that cause you to hate the car? No, because they're scratches and don't affect how awesome it is to drive.

[The Fake Shemp]

Actually, the correct analogy would be buying a Porche that looks awesome and beautiful on the outside - I'm talking women get wet just looking at this thing - but the engine sucks an- OMFG WTF BBQ SOMEBODY CUT THE BREAKS NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

... Now you're dead. Good job, Great Rumbler. Your analogy just killed someone.

[Great Rumbler]

That doesn't even make any sense at all, Willco. You're seriously losing it here. Maybe you ought to take a break from this thread and drink some water or something. I mean, dang, dude, I don't want you to die or anything over this Avatar stuff. It's just a movie.

[fistfulofmetal]

she looked the best later in the movie without the braids. total swoon

[The Fake Shemp]

How am I losing it? You just compared fundamental screenplay and characterization problems to cosmetic scratches on a sports car. That is probably the dumbest analogy ever.

But I don't expect Avatar fans to appreciate things like "dialogue" and "writing".

[brawndolicious]

As much as some reviewers might gush over the visuals, easily 80% of this movie is story and exposition.  I'm pretty sure I remember Beouwolf getting more criticism for it's story and all it did was rewrite a few things, it still made a good story.  Avatar gets the complete opposite treatment.

Willco, you can just pirate it by now or if you want to be moral about it, you could buy a ticket for Up In The Air or Invictus or something that's actually good and watch it in 2D since 3D adds absolutely nothing at all to this movie.  you really have no idea how bad the story can be until you've seen it yourself.

[Great Rumbler]

How am I losing it? You just compared fundamental screenplay and characterization problems to cosmetic scratches on a sports car. That is probably the dumbest analogy ever.

That would make sense if all Avatar had going for it were it's characters and its story, but that's clearly not the case since most agree that those are the weakest elements of the movie and yet it's still able to garner critical and box office success in a big way. So, no, my analogy isn't wrong.

[Mr. Gundam]

Just got back from seeing Avatar in 3D. The film is visually stunning and a whole lot of stupid mindless fun, but whoever decided it deserved a Best Picture (Drama) nomination at the Golden Globes is on crack.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Looks like Willco and I just can't make ourselves dumb enough to enjoy Avatar.

We'll be over here with Cohen and Eric P, sipping wine and watching actual Oscar Best Picture Nominee Up in the Air.

[Mr. Gundam]

watching actual Oscar Best Picture Nominee Up in the Air.

I saw it three weeks ago and even talked about it in our movie thread, but was quickly ignored. Damn good film.

[The Fake Shemp]

You weren't ignored. After your review, I put out a request to secure a pass or something for it. If all else fails, I'll go see it in theaters.

[CajoleJuice]

watching actual Oscar Best Picture Nominee Up in the Air.

I saw it three weeks ago and even talked about it in our movie thread, but was quickly ignored. Damn good film.

Maybe because most of us don't live near fancy city theaters.

[Don Flamenco]

bringing my nephew to see it tomorrow.  is this safe for 12 year olds? 

[Joe Molotov]

But I don't expect Avatar fans to appreciate things like "dialogue" and "writing".

Big talk from the writer of [insert title of Wilco's first movie here].

[Solo]

Even better the second time 

[The Fake Shemp]

But I don't expect Avatar fans to appreciate things like "dialogue" and "writing".

Big talk from the writer of [insert title of Wilco's first movie here].

CANDY LAND

[Great Rumbler]

bringing my nephew to see it tomorrow.  is this safe for 12 year olds? 

Well, the Na'vi aren't big on clothes so there's a lot of blue skin, although nothing explicit. There's some violence [including a few humans getting speared by giant arrows], but not really much in the way of blood or gore. Swearing is fairly mild.

If you don't mind some mild spoilers, this will give you a better idea of what you're in for:

http://www.kids-in-mind.com/a/avatar.htm

[Diunx]

I'm gonna watch this again in 2d next weekend

[WrikaWrek]

Saw it today, liked it. Pocahontas in space.

3D sucked though.

[border]

But what really came out this year that is unequivocally better? Precious? The Hurt Locker? Up in the Air? You can make an argument for those films, but will you really argue that there were ten superior films this year? I wouldn't. Even if there were only five slots, I'd still nominate Avatar.

This strikes me as kind of a stupid point, because unless you live in New York or LA you probably haven't even had a chance to see the films that will be nominated for Best Picture.  The Lovely Bones, Up in the Air, A Single Man, Nine.....so much stuff is yet to come.  Not to mention Inglourious Basterds and District 9 are arguably superior to Avatar.

[The Fake Shemp]

The White Ribbon, Up in the Air, A Serious Man, The Hurt Locker, Precious, In the Loop, Crazy Heart, Inglourious Basterds, Moon, District 9, Skin, (500) Days of Summer, Bad Lieutenant or any of the 87 other films with higher aggregated scores at Rotten Tomatoes.

(That includes Drag Me to Hell.)

[Great Rumbler]

The White Ribbon, Up in the Air, A Serious Man, The Hurt Locker, Precious, In the Loop, Crazy Heart, Inglourious Basterds, Moon, District 9, Skin, (500) Days of Summer, Bad Lieutenant or any of the 87 other films with higher aggregated scores at Rotten Tomatoes.

(That includes Drag Me to Hell.)

At least Avatar is in the top 100 for its year, unlike Benjamin Button, The Reader or Atonement.

[fistfulofmetal]

apparently i'm going to see it at 10:30 on Saturday.   

oh well. but i'm getting my dad, brother and his wife in on it too. so thats 52 more bucks for AVATAR

[BlueTsunami]

For all the people who thought the female Na'vi was hot
 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.hardsextube.com/video/159731/

[close]

[TakingBackSunday]

Just saw it.  It's a movie of incredible visual and (sometimes) audible appeal with some truly breathtaking feats of filmmaking, yet with one of the poorest examples of characterization in film this year.  Dialogue and development is sooooo not for Cameron.

[Cormacaroni]

Just saw it.  It's a movie of incredible visual and (sometimes) audible appeal with some truly breathtaking feats of filmmaking, yet with one of the poorest examples of characterization in film this year.  Dialogue and development is sooooo not for Cameron.

I think you mean 'aural'.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

hey tauntaun!

[close]

[Ichirou]

I think I'm going to be seeing it this weekend if the movie theaters aren't too crowded.  TBH, the trailers have left me unimpressed and the art direction seems horrible, but I don't think there's been a James Cameron movie I haven't enjoyed on some visceral level.  Even Titanic.

[Ichirou]

Is it true you engage in recreational cocaine use?

[brawndolicious]

The love scenes were the worst thing I have ever seen.  There were giggles going all around the theater during the sex scene and some people just got up and left.