The NBA thread

[Let's Cyber]

but yeah, C's and 76ers are definitely the future in the East.

[Mandark]

Those 80's Lakers teams regularly had soft paths to the finals but nobody holds that against Magic.

It's all good though. Anyone hating on LeBron at this point just doesn't like basketball.

[Human Snorenado]

Those 80's Lakers teams regularly had soft paths to the finals but nobody holds that against Magic.

It's all good though. Anyone hating on LeBron at this point just doesn't like basketball.

[agrajag]

I just checked the stats, LeBron is having his best playoffs ever in terms of points made and assists.

[Nola]

Speaking of just having praised the NBA’s late playoffs officiating, Scott Foster is officiating tonight’s game 7. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Though the one saving grace is that he seems to hate the Rockets as much as he hates the Warriors. Both teams turn to dog shit when he calls their games. So maybe that just cancels each other out....or we get an all out game of fuckery.

[close]

[agrajag]

CP3 unlikely to play tonight 

[Kara]

Those 80's Lakers teams regularly had soft paths to the finals but nobody holds that against Magic.

Just glanced at the 1982 season, which should really prove your point because there were still byes in the NBA playoffs then, and the Lakers played the #3 offense (with a league average defense) and the #4 defense (with a below league average offense) before facing the Sixers.

And no one puts Magic on Bron's level these days anyway.

[seagrams hotsauce]

That makes KD Larry Bird, right? Tall, lanky, ugly hair, ugly face, ugly facial hair, scrawny legs

Bird was an all time shit talker. KD will never get a "merry fucking christmas" moment

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/anthonyVslater/status/1001144823758417924

[Nola]

Those 80's Lakers teams regularly had soft paths to the finals but nobody holds that against Magic.

Just glanced at the 1982 season, which should really prove your point because there were still byes in the NBA playoffs then, and the Lakers played the #3 offense (with a league average defense) and the #4 defense (with a below league average offense) before facing the Sixers.

And no one puts Magic on Bron's level these days anyway.

Not to mention that Magic took that path on the Lakers with a bunch of hall of famers on his wing: Kareem and Wilkes, Worthy and Kareem.
Often with multiple all stars, starter caliber role players, and defensive stalwarts also around their core. Like AC Green, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, Bob McAdoo  So I give Lebron a lot of props for what he did, even if it is in the Leastern Conference.

[Nola]

That makes KD Larry Bird, right? Tall, lanky, ugly hair, ugly face, ugly facial hair, scrawny legs

Bird was an all time shit talker. KD will never get a "merry fucking christmas" moment

Bird also wouldn't hide behind his goons, he'd go right back at you and could punch above his weight class.

[benjipwns]

That makes KD Larry Bird, right? Tall, lanky, ugly hair, ugly face, ugly facial hair, scrawny legs

typing "kevin durant passing" into youtube returned "why did durant pass up the final shot", "lebron passes torch to durant" and "did durant pass lebron?" along with a nine minute video of ricky rubio passing highlights

so

Bird was an all time shit talker. KD will never get a "merry fucking christmas" moment

also, are there videos of the opposing bench celebrating durant hitting shots?

[agrajag]

lol why do those old timey hook shots look like your dad playing basketball?

[benjipwns]

speaking of "what ifs" there was the article about Nash and D'Antoni talking about how they were already busting the game so much they were leery about letting Nash play like Harden except in select situations and now how they regret it: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23540049/how-mike-dantoni-learned-embrace-iso-why-stop-now-nba

Avery Johnson threw D'Antoni a curveball in Game 2 of the 2005 Western Conference semifinals.

Johnson instructed his Dallas Mavericks to switch every screen, a bold strategy back then and something Nash hadn't seen while leading the Suns to 62 wins and earning the MVP that season.

It worked that night, as the Mavs pulled off a 108-106 victory in Phoenix to even the series after being blown out in the opener.

"I remember management and coaches saying, 'What are we gonna do? They're switching everything, and Steve's going one-on-one?'" D'Antoni said. "I said, 'Well, let me think. So their philosophy is to give us a 15-foot shot with the best shooter in the world? We're going to do that every time.'"

Don Nelson, as Nash's coach when he played in Dallas, often yelled at the pass-first point guard to be more aggressive looking for his shot. This was Johnson, Nash's former teammate before he became an assistant under Nelson, gambling that Nash wouldn't fire away.

Nash, with pushing from D'Antoni, accepted the dare and averaged 37 points and 11.5 assists the rest of the series. The Suns eliminated the Mavs in six games. That, in some respects, was foreshadowing of D'Antoni's future with the Rockets: force a switch and let an All-NBA guard go.

In hindsight, D'Antoni wishes it had been a sign of things to come with the Suns.

Rockets coach Mike D'Antoni
As great as Nash was during their four seasons together, winning a pair of MVPs and twice taking the Suns to the West finals, D'Antoni believes he could have been more dominant if he hadn't been so determined to be a traditional point guard.

"Oh, without a doubt, I screwed that up," D'Antoni said. "Nash was a purist. Steve's a Hall of Fame point guard. He was unbelievably good. I just think instead of averaging 15 or 16 [points], he could have averaged 30 for us. He was that good of a shooter, and I don't think it would have screwed the team up."

D'Antoni is convinced that the Suns would have been even more successful if Nash ran all those pick-and-rolls with a shoot-first mindset.

"If they even give a hint of going under [the screen], just whap it," D'Antoni said. Nash, now a player-development consultant for the Warriors who sees Stephen Curry shredding defenses with his jump shot, agrees with his old coach.

"We know better now," Nash said. "The math's been validated, and I think that's why point guards are so aggressive. It makes sense. We stuck to our traditional values, and that allowed me to stick to my personality, whereas I should have come further and further out of my personality.

"Yeah, I should have probably shot the ball 20 times a game. It probably would have made a lot more sense, but at the time, we weren't ready for that league-wide. Everyone was telling us that you can't win shooting all those 3s, and now we realize that we didn't shoot enough, especially when we were playing small. So, yeah, I think Mike's right. I regret it, too.

"But it really wasn't my personality and the culture of the game wasn't ready for that. So it was like a bridge too far, so to speak, at the time."

Nash referenced another of D'Antoni's regrets: that the Suns didn't shoot even more 3s. The criticism that they shot too many, which came externally from the media and internally from the front office, seems cute in hindsight.

The most 3s the Suns attempted during D'Antoni's tenure was 25.6 per game in 2005-06, an unheard of number at the time. That would have ranked 25th in the NBA this season, when D'Antoni's Rockets shot 42.3 3s per night, breaking the league record they set last season.

"If we'd shoot 30-something 3s back then, it was like, 'Oh my gosh!'" D'Antoni said. "That was like stepping out of the box back then. But that was like putting our toes in the water. I should have dove in, and I really regret that."

Zach Lowe had a similar off-hand mention about how a lot of older players were struggling on teams implementing the defensive switch everything mentality because they grew up in a game where it was uncouth or unmanly, sorta like how those Suns were treated for taking so many threes and taking shots on advantage...versus now when everyone chases the Heat/Warriors playing five-out at once with "backwards" screens and spreading the floor (people sometimes sorta forget the Heat had already started having Bosh setup way out, even out to the three point line, and were playing Battier as the other forward with LeBron and he'd go camp in the corner if not screening, then sometimes ditch Chalmers or Bosh to play Ray Allen since LeBron and Wade were the "point guards" anyway)

[benjipwns]

lol why do those old timey hook shots look like your dad playing basketball?

they used to teach a hook shot that was really utilitarian (along with other moves in college) so even all the stars until the 90s use those moves that look extra "old" today even if they probably could easily do more modern moves, I read an older article recently, Wilt stole an idea he got from Bob Pettit which basically eventually became Kareem's skyhook but Wilt was discouraged from it rather than minimizing the amount of effort and distance the ball needed to be away from his hands

one reason was that they were afraid guys would undercut him, teams had started doing this to Elgin Baylor for "being flashy" aka jumping in ways that weren't straight up and down (and also being black didn't help)

Wilt's minutes records have always been his most impressive to me, and LeBron's getting some of that love especially since as noted above his constant Finals runs in this era have been like two to three extra whole seasons at this point, but a lot of that was learning minimization of movements, whereas Bill Russell's whole game early on was more destroying cacs with his absurd athleticism than skills (other than IQ/smarts/etc.) and jumping a hundred times in two seconds if necessary (re: undercutting Russell or similar, the Celtics would fuck you up, Wilt and Baylor didn't really have those teammates many seasons, apparently Big O himself would murder your family for shit plays (main takeaway I got from that Sam Smith book is that his in-game persona has more than triple doubles in common with Westbrook))

[Kara]

Those 80's Lakers teams regularly had soft paths to the finals but nobody holds that against Magic.

Just glanced at the 1982 season, which should really prove your point because there were still byes in the NBA playoffs then, and the Lakers played the #3 offense (with a league average defense) and the #4 defense (with a below league average offense) before facing the Sixers.

And no one puts Magic on Bron's level these days anyway.

Not to mention that Magic took that path on the Lakers with a bunch of hall of famers on his wing: Kareem and Wilkes, Worthy and Kareem.
Often with multiple all stars, starter caliber role players, and defensive stalwarts also around their core. Like AC Green, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, Bob McAdoo  So I give Lebron a lot of props for what he did, even if it is in the Leastern Conference.

A.C. Green showing da youf that being celibate makes you ball, not shoot up a school.

 

[benjipwns]

White grit 

decades ago the CIA implemented a project to save up all the white American basketball skill to put into one superstar savior to compete (along with introducing crack into black neighborhoods)

Danny Ferry, Keith Van Horn, Mike Dunleavy Jr. and Adam Morrison test runs implied we needed to save up increasingly more each decade...that's why it's been quite a while...

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/_Truthbe/status/1000945527532355584

[ToxicAdam]

I felt bad for Tristan last night. He was the only guy under the rim to try to retrieve all that trash the Cavs were heaving up. Often having to fight with 2-3 Celtics in the process.

It was an odd decision, but evidently the Cavs needed the other 4 players to go back and defend as quickly as possible.

[Mandark]

Those 80's Lakers teams regularly had soft paths to the finals but nobody holds that against Magic.

Just glanced at the 1982 season, which should really prove your point because there were still byes in the NBA playoffs then, and the Lakers played the #3 offense (with a league average defense) and the #4 defense (with a below league average offense) before facing the Sixers.

And no one puts Magic on Bron's level these days anyway.

Check out 1984-87. Out of 12 series in the West, LA played 5 teams with losing records and only 2 teams with 45+ wins.

[Mandark]

The Lakers and Celtics dynasties in the 80's were built on some absolute heists.

They got Magic with a compensation pick when Gail Goodrich went to the Jazz (and fell off a cliff as soon as he got there). They got James Worthy with the #1 overall pick a couple years later. I forget who they traded to get it, but I know it was with the Cavs and part of a draft pick giveaway which prompted the NBA to create the Stepien Rule (where you can't trade first round picks in consecutive years).

Imagine having something named after you, and that something is a rule to save dumb rich guys from themselves.

[Nola]

Didn't the Lakers also get the number one draft pick for the year they won the championship? Which they used to get Magic anyway?

I might be misremembering but I remember something similar.

I feel like a good chunk of the NBA's history was just like 3-4 organizations that actually knew what the fuck they were doing and everyone else basically was getting taken to the woodshed and acting like organizational feeders to those teams.

[benjipwns]

The Celtics big three of the 1980s was assembled basically because of a draft loophole and a league rule seemingly requiring everyone to trade for Bob McAdoo once.

The Celtics got Kevin McHale and Robert Parish because the Warriors wanted Joe Barry Carroll in the draft. The Celtics had the Carroll pick in the first place because they signed M.L. Carr from the Pistons who as compensation asked to take Bob McAdoo off the Celtics hands in exchange for two first round picks.

They got Bird after drafting him a year before he actually came out of college because of a contract dispute that allowed him to go back and play another season and play in the most televised game in NCAA history to that point. He and Magic would have gone 1/2 if he had re-entered the 1979 Draft instead of signing with the Celtics. The Celtics had already traded their 1979 first round pick (which had become #3) for Bob McAdoo so they had to sign Bird before the Draft.

So Magic went #1 to the Lakers, the Knicks used #3 to take Bill Cartwright. The Bulls were drafting 2nd. The Bulls took David Greenwood.

If the Celtics hadn't caved to Bird's salary demands and he re-entered the draft, either he or Magic might have wound up on the Bulls five years before Jordan.

[benjipwns]

While we're on teams "abusing" the draft process... People talk about the horrible behavior of the Sixers to stack up top draft picks (when their only #1 pick is Ben Simmons...Embiid was #3, as was the pick they sent for Fultz, and as was Jahil Okafor who they borderline waived...) while funnily ignoring three other current situations stacking up certain franchises' key players.

The Lakers have taken three straight #2 picks, in D'Angelo Russell, Ingram and Ball.

The Cavaliers starting lineup over the last few years is the result of four #1 picks and a #4 pick. LeBron, Love (who they got for winning back-to-back #1's, Wiggins and Bennett), Kyrie, and Tristan Thompson. (The latter two who were #1 and #4 in the same draft. Because they took Baron Davis' contract off the Clippers hands and the Clippers sent them the pick that became Kyrie as payment.)

And the Celtics! Their rotation this year featured a #6 (Smart), a #1 (Kyrie) and three #3's (Horford, Brown and Tatum), three of which they themselves drafted (one of which was a #1 pick before they traded down), they aren't "tanking" in part because the Nets are doing it for them and sending them (and now the Cavs too) the picks.

An amusing semi-recent anti-success draft history is maybe the Grizzlies while they were in Vancouver, they turned a #3, #4 and three straight #2 picks (in part because they and the Raptors were barred from winning the lottery until 2000...both teams actually did win and the NBA had to redo the draw*) into a whopping 23 wins in their final season before moving.

*One of those times led to the Sixers getting #1 and drafting Allen Iverson. A string of Sixers drafts from 1992-98 in which they picked #9 (Weatherspoon), #2 (Bradley), #6 (Sharone Wright), #3 (Stackhouse), #1 (Iverson), #2 (Van Horn) and #8 (Larry Hughes) each of whom were on or were traded for the parts of their 2001 Finals team. So they're repeat offenders! They were copying themselves being crappy and getting lottery picks for it! And Hinkie pretended it was new by giving it a name like "The Process" (and having his draft picks get or be injured) the cheating bastards! Thank god the league did something this time though...

[Nola]

I feel like you're a fuckin bitch

Good point

[benjipwns]

The master tanker really is Gregg Popovich. He used the opportunity to first fire a coach who had just won 62 and 59 games while putting up with the worst temperament Rodman year and having Vinny Del Negro and Avery Johnson as his backcourt. Then he took over the job himself. Then he turned over the offense to Mad Max and a 37 year old Dominique Wilkins while having nobody play any defense. And told both his superstar (David Robinson) and his other "All-Star" (Sean Elliott) to not bother coming back that season to play despite getting healthy and cleared. Arguably all at the slim chance to get Duncan*.

Which of course, worked out perfectly for almost two decades.

  Pop

spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Since the second, third and fourth best things in the Draft turned out to be: the 180lb high schooler nobody had heard of two years earlier, the guy who went 3rd but the entire league seemingly gave up on for half a decade, and the guy from Community College who was barely in the league until Pop molded him into his insane bomber for the 2003 title run.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Van Horn might have worked out decently enough next to the Admiral to get them a title. He did average 19/8 per game from 1998-2001. I have to assume he would have played better D on the Spurs or at least not hurt them. The 2002 Nets led the league in D despite him playing almost 2500 minutes.

Funny enough, four of the top five WS and B-R's VORP players from the Draft all played for the Spurs at one point: Duncan, McGrady, Antonio Daniels and Derek Anderson in WS. Stephen Jackson is 8th in WS but 4th in VORP. Billups the exception in both.

Actually, Daniels and Anderson were both starting for the Spurs in 2000-01. Pop probably got more use out of that draft than Rick Pitino did and Pitino had two top six picks.

[close]

[close]

[agrajag]

Those Rockets fans are turnt up!

[agrajag]

Lol Thompson with 3 fouls already

[Stoney Mason]

Klay three fouls. big.

[team filler]

refs trying to even things up with cp3 out 

[Stoney Mason]

Houston is gonna shot 50 threes this game. Calling it.

[agrajag]

Both team with Eastern conference 3 point shooting in the first

[Stoney Mason]

Why is Ryan Anderson out there

 

[agrajag]

Why is Ryan Anderson out there

 

Cause Capella was missing all his free throws

[Let's Cyber]

Leading after 1 qrt. Rockets getting our hopes up again.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Why is Ryan Anderson out there

 

Cause Capella was missing all his free throws

That's an issue but Anderson is a defensive nightmare. Warriors will target him every play.

[agrajag]

Joe Johnson with that veteran savvy

[benjipwns]

Houston is gonna shot 50 threes this game. Calling it.

no longer impressive, now i need a team to chase 75 attempts (that was the fewest three point attempts in a season by a team*, Atlanta took 75 in 1979-80, the first NBA year with the line...they made 13)

*technically it was the San Diego Sails in the 1975-76 ABA season, they only took 31 (made 12) but they folded after 11 games (next are the Utah Stars who folded after 16 games the same season...20/63)

[Stoney Mason]

Rockets need to go at klay hard to get that 4th foul or no defense.

[agrajag]

 

[Nola]

Leading after 1 qrt. Rockets getting our hopes up again.

 

Yeah unless the Rockets go up by thirty I’m still convinced this is nothing but the hype building prelude to another Warriors 3rd quarter killing spree.

[benjipwns]

lol the Rockets only made 12 or fewer threes 17 times this season...how do i go back in time and show that Hawks team footage of this Rockets team, ideally the game against Dallas in January where they went 21/51 from three and the Mavs went 15/35 from three

edit: pace of that game: 92.5
1979-80 ATL pace: 98.9 (lg avg: 103.1)

edit2: oh god, even better, Hubie Brown is that Hawks teams coach, i just need 1980 Hubie Brown, not the entire team

[benjipwns]

in fact, i just want a permanent 1980 Hubie Brown to have commentate games like one of NBATV's foreign language channels

spoiler (click to show/hide)

"COUSINS! WHY ARE YOU DRIBBLING THE BALL, GIVE IT TO THE GUARDS, GO STAND UNDER THE BASKET TO REBOUND, NO! NOT OUT AT THE LINE, BY THE BASKET"

[close]

[Stoney Mason]

rockets frustrating me by not putting klay in pick and roll

[Stoney Mason]

Good half. Now comes the Warriors 3rd quarter blitz

 

[agrajag]

Eric Gordon is literally a Rocket

[Let's Cyber]

https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/1001282597408784384

 

[Nola]

If I'm the Warriors I feel pretty good going into the second half only down by 11 after such a bad half, considering they tend to win the 3rd quarter by a good margin most games.

[agrajag]

#4

[agrajag]

That point should have counted.

[Nola]

I hate Harden's style of play but Foster is straight fucking this dude over right now lol

Harden has had 10 points taken right away from him on obvious fouls.

[agrajag]

Say what you want about Harden, but when he tries to draw a foul on the 3 he actually tries to make it, unlike LeBron a lot of times

[Nola]

Is that like three fouls for three uncounted now?

Yep.

[Stoney Mason]

Harden is 7 of 19. 2 of 10 from 3.

He can't continue at that rate if the Rockets want to win.

[Nola]

Harden is 7 of 19. 2 of 10 from 3.

He can't continue at that rate if the Rockets want to win.

Though to be fair he should be 8 of 17 and 3 of 8 from three with one four point play and two 3 point trips to the line.

....Though at the same time this has always been the knock on Harden's game(including mine for years). When refs start swallowing whistles, the foul hunting turns his play style from league breaking to team killing.

[Stoney Mason]

Rockets are in trouble. They can't score.

[Nola]

Ariza has been trash.

[agrajag]

Missing CP3 badly

[Stoney Mason]

Harden is going to have to drive and either get fouled or hit shots. Just the 3's ain't gonna cut it.

[agrajag]

Looks like the swarming defense of the first half took a lot of energy out Houston