The NBA thread

[Flannel Boy]

We can talk about PER ratings all we want but at the end of the day this is three superstars on the same team. They aren't guaranteed anything

Not all superstars are equal.

As long as they stay healthy, they'll win a ring. The season will be completely pointless unless you want to see whether they'll top 72 wins.

[Phoenix Dark]

LeBron should want to beat Wade, not play with him.

People keep making this argument and it makes no sense to me. Not trying to be rude but really it doesn't.

It shows that he's unwilling to try to win a ring as the man. He needs his near equal and the best third banana since James Worthy.

Lebron would have beaten Dwyane if somehow Lebron could make the Heat his team. 

It's not about Wade specifically, but it's about his need for a Wade-type player on his team, who is a clear number one on every other team except the Heat, Lakers, and possibly Thunder.

And Larry Bird played with Robert Parrish and Kevin Mchale who some consider one of the greatest power forwards of all time.

And Magic played with great players himself.

So I'm supposed to be upset at Lebron because also wants to play with great players instead of the shitty squad of scrubs he had in Cleveland.

yeah...still makes no sense to me.

bubububu PER ratings

The Celtics had a literal all star team in the 80s, and even before then. The Lakers had a literal all star team in the 80s, and before then. There's a history of this happening in the NBA, and it has never been a problem until last week.

If LeBron retires with six titles it won't matter who he won with.

Malek: they can't beat the Lakers, and they might not make it out of the eastern conference imo. I'd put Orlando above them, and Chicago perhaps

[Flannel Boy]

McHale isn't even a top ten power forward in my mind. McHale, Parish, and Worthy are all overrated (see Jeter and championships)

Bird and Magic were both drafted onto their respective. They didn't leave their teams along with a third great player to team up to kill all other teams. A comparable would be Bird and Magic teaming up with George Gervin.

[Stoney Mason]

McHale isn't even a top ten power forward in my mind. McHale, Parish, and Worthy are all overrated (see Jeter and championships)

Bird and Magic were both drafted onto their respective. They didn't leave their teams along with a third great player to team up to kill all other teams. A comparable would be Bird and Magic teaming up with George Gervin.

Yeah I'm just gonna drop it and leave it at I disagree completely with people who have your opinion but to each his own I suppose.

[Flannel Boy]

Look, a team with the best shooting guard, the best small forward, and arguably one of the three best power-forward's (Duncan is a center--only Gasol and Nowitzki have an argument here) should win easily in a 30-team league where elite talent is spread extremely thin. It won't mean anything.

[Flannel Boy]

Would you be the least upset if James, Wade, Howard, Paul, and Bosh teamed up? What if Nowitzki, Boozer, and Johnson joined up to play off the bench?

If you're starting to have a problem, then it's only a question of degrees.

[Stoney Mason]

Would you be the least upset if James, Wade, Howard, Paul, and Bosh teamed up? What if Nowitzki, Boozer, and Johnson joined up to play off the bench?

If you're starting to have a problem, then it's only a question of degrees.

If they team up. And they want to split their salaries in such a way that still works under the rules then so be it. Who am I to judge players for what they want to do with their career and their lives and their money. If they want to assemble such a team and win then more power to them. As long as the actual system works with a salary cap. I don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with something like the Yankees in baseball where you have a broken revenue structure.

[Phoenix Dark]

They'll win easily, but that doesn't mean they'll dominate the NBA Finals. Kobe is still breathing/healthy and has a great team around him. And if Howard ever learns some post moves (lol I know), Orlando could be very dangerous.

[Flannel Boy]

Would you be the least upset if James, Wade, Howard, Paul, and Bosh teamed up? What if Nowitzki, Boozer, and Johnson joined up to play off the bench?

If you're starting to have a problem, then it's only a question of degrees.

If they team up. And they want to split their salaries in such a way that still works under the rules then so be it. Who am I to judge players for what they want to do with their career and their lives and their money. If they want to assemble such a team and win then more power to them. As long as the actually system works with a salary cap. I don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with something like the Yankees in baseball where you have a broken revenue structure.

As a basketball fan, you wouldn't have a problem with my absurd line-up. The team would win most games by at least 20 points. Where's the competitive balance?  What the point of watching? Wouldn't their championship be worthless?   

They'll win easily, but that doesn't mean they'll dominate the NBA Finals. Kobe is still breathing/healthy and has a great team around him. And if Howard ever learns some post moves (lol I know), Orlando could be very dangerous.

Even if he learns some post moves, he doesn't have the teammates to get him past the Heat. Lewis and Carter are on the wrong side of 30. Nelson has yet to develop into a legitimate point guard.

[Smooth Groove]

PD shows once again that he's not capable of any useful analysis beyond conventional "wisdom".  It's a typical sportswriter mistake to overrate teams that have fared well in the past season. 

[Phoenix Dark]

PD shows once again that he's not capable of any useful analysis beyond conventional "wisdom".  It's a typical sportswriter mistake to overrate teams that have fared well in the past season. 

Isn't the conventional wisdom: Heat destroy everyone, win championships? I'm going against the grain man

[Stoney Mason]

As a basketball fan, you wouldn't have a problem with my absurd line-up. The team would win most games by at least 20 points. Where's the competitive balance?  What the point of watching? Wouldn't their championship be worthless?

First we speaking in theoretical terms. I don't think that lineup will come to pass. I'm more saying if it does then so be it theoretically. There is nothing stopping other players from assembling their own superstar squads if they wanted to do such a thing as long as they are also willing to take less money.

And the heat are two superstars and a good player. (Bosh). Bosh is no where near the level of Lebron or Wade. Just as you feel McHale was over-rated which I disagree with. Bosh is over-rated imo. They will still be a great squad though. My argument is this idea that superstars shouldn't play with other superstars because of some weird idea that they want to balance out the league. Every superstar who cares about winning should surround himself with the best talent possible. Otherwise he isn't trying. 

[Smooth Groove]

PD shows once again that he's not capable of any useful analysis beyond conventional "wisdom".  It's a typical sportswriter mistake to overrate teams that have fared well in the past season. 

Isn't the conventional wisdom: Heat destroy everyone, win championships? I'm going against the grain man

Nope, many of the ESPN pundits/idiots have the Heat not even among the top 3.  I believe Adande placed the Celtics above the Heat.  

[Phoenix Dark]

PD shows once again that he's not capable of any useful analysis beyond conventional "wisdom".  It's a typical sportswriter mistake to overrate teams that have fared well in the past season. 

Isn't the conventional wisdom: Heat destroy everyone, win championships? I'm going against the grain man

Nope, many of the ESPN pundits/idiots have the Heat not even among the top 3.  I believe Adande placed the Celtics above the Heat.  

Celtics...eh. I don't buy that. Heat need a couple more competent pieces imo. Although granted, LeBron/Wade/Bosh could make just about anyone look good on their team

[Flannel Boy]

And the heat are two superstars and good player. (Bosh). Bosh is no where near the level of Lebron or Wade. Just as you feel McHale was over-rated which I disagree with. Bosh is over-rated imo. They will still be a great squad though.

Bosh isn't considered a superstar because he hasn't won anything (because he has been surrounded by shitty talent). He's an extremely efficient scorer with very good range for a big-man. He's one of the fastest bigs who rebounds at a great rate. He can play defense when he wants to (which is rather infrequently). He's just entered his prime--like LeBron--so it's hard to say whether he won't end up being better than McHale.

Mike Miller is a good player. Chris Bosh is a great player who has played on bad teams.

[Mandark]

Or how about when Jordan took a lesser salary to get more help for his bulls.

I'm 99% sure that didn't happen.

He and Pippen were underpaid for years because they signed very long term deals in the late 80's/early 90's.  Jordan signed single-year deals for obscene amounts of money the last two or three seasons with the Bulls, while Pippen didn't get a big payday until he went to the Rockets.

[Flannel Boy]

Yeah, Jordan signed one-year $30 million+ deals during his last two seasons with the Bulls.

[Mandark]

In any case, if you want to paint LeBron's decision as following precedents by other great players, MJ is the last person you want to bring up.

Can anyone imagine the angry, hypercompetitive, egomaniacal Jordan even considering a move like this?  Me neither.

[Flannel Boy]

In any case, if you want to paint LeBron's decision as following precedents by other great players, MJ is the last person you want to bring up.

Can anyone imagine the angry, hypercompetitive, egomaniacal Jordan even considering a move like this?  Me neither.

He would be fine with adding Mike Miller.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

so he could punch him out in practice

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[Stoney Mason]

I'll retract the jordan comment. I thought I remembered one of those years where he took a lesser salary when he came back.

[Cormacaroni]

LeBron should want to beat Wade, not play with him.

People keep making this argument and it makes no sense to me. Not trying to be rude but really it doesn't.

Stoney

In case anyone else doesn't get it, it would be ridiculous for LeBron to be focusing in any way on beating Wade. Wade has in no way been a barrier to his championship ambitions in recent years. He has had to worry about the Spurs, the Magic and the Celtics. 2 out of 3 of those teams have a 'Big Three'. Wade would have to get out of the 1st round in order to have run into the Cavs! Do people somehow consider it nobler for teams like Wade's Heat or Kobe's 2006 Lakers to erase each other in meaningless 1st round battles than to posse up and head for the Finals? Bollocks. This is the NBA; no-one is climbing this mountain alone.

[Cormacaroni]

In any case, if you want to paint LeBron's decision as following precedents by other great players, MJ is the last person you want to bring up.

Can anyone imagine the angry, hypercompetitive, egomaniacal Jordan even considering a move like this?  Me neither.

Yep, LeBron is much smarter than that.

Seriously, how much harder did MJ make it on himself? Lest we forget, he didn't win anything forever. How many rings would he have had if he'd lobbied for David Robinson or Olajuwon to join him?

Anyway, LeBron is much more like Magic...he's an embracer, not a dictator. Kobe scowls when Vujacic or Farmar botches a play; LeBron beams when Varejao makes a lay-up of one of his passes. He's not MJ but that doesn't diminish him in my eyes.

[Flannel Boy]

This is the NBA; no-one is climbing this mountain alone.

Who is saying he should do it alone? There's doing it alone and then there's doing it on a stacked team in a 30-team league where the talent is spread thin. Udonis Haslem has signed with the Heat for five years. I'm not a big fan of Wages of Wins (mostly because it discounts volume scoring), but according to it LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Miller, Haslem, and Chalmers are worth 74.7 wins. So at this point, they just have to avoid adding players like Jeffries or Pargo.

[Smooth Groove]

Don't blame us for being the only ones that know how to build a team. 

[Cormacaroni]

Well, what are you gonna do? They agreed to take less money. As J.A. Adande said, there is literally no rule you can write that will be effective in equitably distributing talent if superstars are prepared to walk away from money. He used the excellent metaphor of GSW, when they beat Dallas (sorry!) - no defense in the world can stop the other team from taking terrible shots.

If you can't see how GREAT this is for the NBA right now, you're blind. The interest is sky-high. Sure, as a purist, you have the right to bitch and moan about how the regular season is a joke because of a few teams beating up on dozens of bottom-feeders...but no-one will care. And the playoffs will be spectacular. There are still plenty of teams capable of eliminating the Heat, and that's ultimately all that matters in terms of the health of the league.

[Smooth Groove]

J.A. Adande sucks.  Dude is always subtly making hagiographic comments about Kobe & Lakers, even in articles that shouldn't have anything to do with them. 

[Cormacaroni]

Sure, he's a Laker homer. But he writes well, generally. Pinch of salt, dude.

[Flannel Boy]

Well, what are you gonna do? *snip*

Belly-ache. I never--not once--said they shouldn't be allowed to do this. But I don't have to like it.

There are still plenty of teams capable of eliminating the Heat

I don't see it unless one of big three gets injured. The Lakers might give them a fight, but Kobe will be 32 and he's logged over 1,000 career games. He's bound to decline sooner or later.

Paul has alluded to a potential union with Anthony and Amar'e. So, great. . . .

[Smooth Groove]

Sure, he's a Laker homer. But he writes well, generally. Pinch of salt, dude.

TJ Simers is far superior.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers-20100614,0,2828164.column

[Cormacaroni]

Well, what are you gonna do? *snip*

Belly-ache. I never--not once--said they shouldn't be allowed to do this. But I don't have to like it.

There are still plenty of teams capable of eliminating the Heat

I don't see it unless one of big three gets injured. The Lakers might give them a fight, but Kobe will be 32 and he's logged over 1,000 career games. He's bound to decline sooner or later.

Paul has alluded to a potential union with Anthony and Amar'e. So, great. . . .

There's always a favorite going into the season, often a prohibitive one. Only a few years ago, we were quaking in fear of a Celtics dynasty created by trades that fans bitched about, and we're in the middle of a Lakers dynasty created by trades that fans bitched about. People said that T-Mac and Yao Ming would win multiple titles! People assumed that LeBron would win 5 or 6 with Cleveland.

You're bitching, but you're interested and engaged, admit it. Wild horses couldn't stop you from watching the first time the Heat play the Lakers, the Celtics and the Magic.

[Flannel Boy]

There's always a favorite going into the season, often a prohibitive one. Only a few years ago, we were quaking in fear of a Celtics dynasty created by trades that fans bitched about, and we're in the middle of a Lakers dynasty created by trades that fans bitched about. People said that T-Mac and Yao Ming would win multiple titles! People assumed that LeBron would win 5 or 6 with Cleveland.

You're bitching, but you're interested and engaged, admit it. Wild horses couldn't stop you from watching the first time the Heat play the Lakers, the Celtics and the Magic.

No one feared a new Celtics dynasty--at least a long one. Garnett and Allen were past their primes when they joined the Celtics.

I've mentioned that health is important. I'm sure if Yao and T-Mac stayed healthy, they would have had some success. But I really can't recall anyone ever thinking the Rockets were the favorites to win one let alone multiple titles.

Who predicted six championships for Cleveland? Even with their best team ever, not a lot of people were predicting they'd be champs: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Predictions0910-NBAchamp

I've actually become a big hockey fan over the last season. I can miss the NBA season just fine.

[Cormacaroni]

Jeez, i think it's pretty clear that the Celtics would have at least reached the Finals 3 straight years running if KG hadn't been hurt last year. But if we're getting to the point of insulting each other's intelligence by reminding each other of stuff we both know already, it's probably time to quit with the historical discussions.

I'm a little afraid that the Big 3 in Miami could become oppressive, but not terrified like I was with Shaq and Kobe in 2000. Wade will decline fast after 30, Bosh isn't a game-changer. Other teams are perfectly capable fo beating them both now and in the future. Mostly, I think it'll be a fun ride!

[Cormacaroni]

To clarify my point about 'people's assumptions' though - I'm not talking about the die-hard fans and ESPN experts here; I'm talking about the casual fan who sees the splashy trade or the young hot-shot 'next Jordan' type winning the MVP and just assumes that their team is gonna clean up without considering the opposition, or factors like injury, chemistry etc. Obviously that's what a lot of people are doing with Miami, and panicking.

[Flannel Boy]

An injury to one of three key players with a ton of mileage is somewhat inevitable, which is why I didn't--and don't remember anyone else--foreseeing a new Celtics dynasty, as you claim

Without the emergence of Rajon Rondo, which was unforeseen when the trades were made, the Celtics wouldn't have made the Finals this year.

[Cormacaroni]

Hindsight!

At the time, we didn't know the Lakers would have Pau Gasol, either.

[Flannel Boy]

To clarify my point about 'people's assumptions' though - I'm not talking about the die-hard fans and ESPN experts here; I'm talking about the casual fan who sees the splashy trade or the young hot-shot 'next Jordan' type winning the MVP and just assumes that their team is gonna clean up without considering the opposition, or factors like injury, chemistry etc. Obviously that's what a lot of people are doing with Miami, and panicking.

Fine, I'm a casual fan. But the Heat have the best shooting guard, the best small forward, and one of the three best powerforwards in the NBA. The only way they don't win rings next year is if one of them gets injured or Wade and Bosh run a train on LeBron's mom.

[Flannel Boy]

Hindsight!

At the time, we didn't know the Lakers would have Pau Gasol, either.

Hindsight? We knew they were old at the time. Garnett and Allen were drafted in the mid-90s. How long could the "dynasty" last.


OK, if the Lakers add another Gasol, then the Heat don't win automatically.

[Cormacaroni]

ugh, hindsight refers to your statement that they needed Rondo to be a star to win. I'm saying they only needed Rondo because the Lakers later got Gasol. Without Gasol, and with a still-emerging Rondo, the Celtics had no trouble with the Lakers, right? At the time, there was no reason not to assume the Celtics couldn't repeat, other than age or injury.

And 3 years is the accepted minimum length of a 'dynasty' is it not? i.e. Isiah's Pistons = not a dynasty, Shaqobe = dynasty. No-one other than Bill Russell has won more than 3 straight titles, right?

I'd favor the Heat to win next year, but by no means is it automatic. How do they play the Magic or the Lakers with Bosh or Haslem at the 5? Without single coverage of Dwight Howard, the Magic are perfectly capable of carving them up. Ditto for the Lakers, who have great defenders to put on Wade and LeBron.

And if all of this spares us from ever again having to watch Mo Williams and Big Z in the post-season, it can only be a good thing.

[Flannel Boy]

OKAY . . . both Rondo's emergence and the Lakers' trade were unforeseen. Now I said without Rondo's emergence that the Celtics wouldn't have made the Finals this years (that's a hypothetical I know), so what does that have to do with the Gasol trade?

[Cormacaroni]

All of those factors just show you that people who try to make long-term predictions about the NBA don't have a fucking clue what is actually going to happen. I certainly remember a lot of talk about the Celtics having a 2-3 yr window to win a championship which seemed perfectly reasonable to me at the time, and perfectly reasonable even in hindsight. But anybody who guaranteed a win, or worse a dynasty, was talking out of their ass.

To bring this back to Miami, they still have to fill out that roster somehow, and the indications are that they're pretty much done in terms of decent additions (with Haslem and Miller). To say that this somehow makes the NBA less compelling next year doesn't make any sense to me. If they win this season, it will be tough. They could well dominate next season, and after a few seasons of that, yeah, it might get old. But that's a long way off and a lot could go wrong for them, and a lot go right for other teams like the Lakers, the Magic and the Thunder. So why not see the glass as half-full in the meantime?

[Flannel Boy]

All of those factors just show you that people who try to make long-term predictions about the NBA don't have a fucking clue what is actually going to happen. I certainly remember a lot of talk about the Celtics having a 2-3 yr window to win a championship which seemed perfectly reasonable to me at the time, and perfectly reasonable even in hindsight. But anybody who guaranteed a win, or worse a dynasty, was talking out of their ass.

Well, I agree with you now: They had a two to three window to compete for championships. That's all.

So why not see the glass as half-full in the meantime?

I'm thinking that a lot of you in this thread aren't going nuts like I have the last page or two because you aren't sold on Bosh. That's all I can think of.

[Cormacaroni]

The only negative thing you can say about Bosh is that the mass media reports of him as a 'superstar' are overrating him, and that there is going to be some kind of a backlash. No, he's not as good as LeBron. Neither is Wade. It's something like LeBron>Wade>>>Bosh, but obviously considering their individual abilities is less important than the synergies. LeBron and Wade have a big man who can draw opposing bigs out of the paint (unless you count Big Z, who could certainly do that but absolutely nothing else). So I think Bosh is going to look really really good in that system, and we're going to see lots of articles with openers like 'On this night, it was the least heralded of the so-called Big 3 who ....'

And then he'll get over-rated again and people will start knocking him again. It's a cycle.

But you're still completely off-base about my view of this. I don't know why you're not getting the fact that people can find this exciting even though they can see the domination coming. Maybe you're just too wrapped up in rooting for your home team or something.

[Flannel Boy]

Maybe you're just too wrapped up in rooting for your home team or something.

Ahh-bingo. I'm a Mavericks fan; don't expect me to be dispassionate and rational here.

[Flannel Boy]

On the other hand, they weren't getting past the first-round anyway.

Time to create an NHL thread?

[Stoney Mason]

But you're still completely off-base about my view of this. I don't know why you're not getting the fact that people can find this exciting even though they can see the domination coming. Maybe you're just too wrapped up in rooting for your home team or something.

I think we all remember the bulls Jordan years and how they dominated. And we all knew they were going to dominate. And we all stopped watching the NBA because they dominated.


Oh wait that didn't happen...

[Smooth Groove]

Maybe you're just too wrapped up in rooting for your home team or something.

Ahh-bingo. I'm a Mavericks fan; don't expect me to be dispassionate and rational here.

Choosing the right team to root for. 

[Flannel Boy]

But you're still completely off-base about my view of this. I don't know why you're not getting the fact that people can find this exciting even though they can see the domination coming. Maybe you're just too wrapped up in rooting for your home team or something.

I think we all remember the bulls Jordans years and how they dominated. And we all knew they were going to dominate. And we all stopped watching the NBA.


Oh wait that didn't happen...

Man, remember the time I said TV viewership would be down this season?

Oh wait that didn't happen. . . .

[Stoney Mason]

But you personally won't be watching because you can't stand domination since you know the Heat are going to break the single season record for wins and then stroll to a title. And not just one. Multiple ones.


Guaranteed

[Flannel Boy]

But you personally won't be watching because you can't stand domination since you know the Heat are going to break the single season record for wins and then stroll to a title.

I've never confused my own views for everyone else's.

Anyway, I'll watch, just not as often. I watched 95% of the mavericks games last season, now I just can't see the point.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

There never was a point to watching the Mavs

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[Cormacaroni]

But you're still completely off-base about my view of this. I don't know why you're not getting the fact that people can find this exciting even though they can see the domination coming. Maybe you're just too wrapped up in rooting for your home team or something.

I think we all remember the bulls Jordan years and how they dominated. And we all knew they were going to dominate. And we all stopped watching the NBA because they dominated.

Oh wait that didn't happen...

Right - if there had been no drama, no-one would have watched. This Miami thing is going to tap into a whole 'nother audience, that goes beyond the traditional Bill Simmons-reading, John Hollinger-quoting NBA fandom, and of course nerdlingers are going to be upset at the usurpation of their domain, and rend their clothes in despair while talking about the glory days of Spurs-Cavs, or Nets-Spurs in the finals.

The true purists, of course, love basketball most when it's being played the best, and the most competitively, but recognize that those two may be mutually exclusive in many cases. So we take what we can get, and enjoy it for what it is, knowing that all things must pass and that next year's draft could upend the apple cart all over again anyway.

So, pick your position. The hate bandwagon is over there, the love bandwagon is over HERE

[Mandark]

As a basketball fan, you wouldn't have a problem with my absurd line-up. The team would win most games by at least 20 points. Where's the competitive balance?  What the point of watching? Wouldn't their championship be worthless?

First we speaking in theoretical terms. I don't think that lineup will come to pass. I'm more saying if it does then so be it theoretically.

Malek with the real talk, Stoney with the indecipherable jibba jabba.

[etiolate]

It is very possible you won't see great basketball on the Miami Heat. The three stars are high on FTAs. You could see a lot of drive into the lane and flail ball.  Which is what goes for high level basketball in the NBA these days.

[Stoney Mason]

As a basketball fan, you wouldn't have a problem with my absurd line-up. The team would win most games by at least 20 points. Where's the competitive balance?  What the point of watching? Wouldn't their championship be worthless?

First we speaking in theoretical terms. I don't think that lineup will come to pass. I'm more saying if it does then so be it theoretically.

Malek with the real talk, Stoney with the indecipherable jibba jabba.

]

You broke my heart Mandark.

[Smooth Groove]

As a basketball fan, you wouldn't have a problem with my absurd line-up. The team would win most games by at least 20 points. Where's the competitive balance?  What the point of watching? Wouldn't their championship be worthless?

First we speaking in theoretical terms. I don't think that lineup will come to pass. I'm more saying if it does then so be it theoretically.

Malek with the real talk, Stoney with the indecipherable jibba jabba.

]

You broke my heart Mandark.

With his racism?  Yeah, even I'm shocked that Mandark would refer to a black man speaking as "indecipherable jibba jabba". 

[Stoney Mason]

With his racism?  Yeah, even I'm shocked that Mandark would refer to a black man speaking as "indecipherable jibba jabba". 

That too! Stop being racist Mandark!!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

kidding

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[Cormacaroni]

It is very possible you won't see great basketball on the Miami Heat. The three stars are high on FTAs. You could see a lot of drive into the lane and flail ball.  Which is what goes for high level basketball in the NBA these days.

Hey, have fun watching Tyreke Evans!

[Flannel Boy]

Right - if there had been no drama, no-one would have watched.

I never thought that the Bulls were destined to win each year. Hindsight being what it is, maybe I should have. But going into each season, I didn't have the expectation that, barring an injury, the Bulls would almost assuredly win. I do, however, feel this way about the Heat.

Right - if there had been no drama, no-one would have watched. This Miami thing is going to tap into a whole 'nother audience, that goes beyond the traditional Bill Simmons-reading, John Hollinger-quoting NBA fandom, and of course nerdlingers are going to be upset at the usurpation of their domain, and rend their clothes in despair while talking about the glory days of Spurs-Cavs, or Nets-Spurs in the finals.

I have no doubt that a lot of people will follow the spectacle, and many others will magically become lifelong Heat fans. I just won't like it. It's fun watching Usain Bolt dominate a field of sprinters, but I only have to watch for 9.6 seconds. To sustain my interest over a full season of basketball, I need to believe that there's some actual competition, that the Heat, when healthy, might actually lose a seven-game series. I just don't have that.

The true purists, of course, love basketball most when it's being played the best, and the most competitively, but recognize that those two may be mutually exclusive in many cases. So we take what we can get, and enjoy it for what it is, knowing that all things must pass and that next year's draft could upend the apple cart all over again anyway.

So, pick your position. The hate bandwagon is over there, the love bandwagon is over HERE

It usually takes a drafted player several years to develop and several more for him to be surrounded by adequate talent. Anyway, LeBron is a generational talent that isn't available in most drafts.

Yes, well, I've picked my bandwagon.

[Phoenix Dark]

I say Miami won't win the championship, they might reach the eastern conference championship but that's it. I'm talking about their first season of course.

Agreed. Eventually they're going to win, they have six years to win something. Maybe they get 3 championships when all is said and done. But not this upcoming season

edit: them "only" getting three titles would make Kobe fans even more unbearable 

[Flannel Boy]

LeBron James made it the Finals as a 22-year-old when the second best player on his team was Ilgauskas and the third best was Drew fucking Gooden. Yet he can't take a team with Wade, Bosh, and Miller to the Finals this season? Please tell me why not? Don't say "chemistry" or I'll punch you through your computer monitor.

[Stoney Mason]

As far as winning the title the first season I'm not sure although I certainly think they have as good a chance as anybody if not more.

People keep talking about depth and I just don't believe that will be the issue. The issue will be how Lebron and Wade co-exist in this offense and how they handle some of the junk defenses that will be thrown at them. It will be a period of adjustment.