Dynasty/Samurai/Orochi/Whatever Warriors Thread

[bork]

Sengoku Musou 4 PS4 ordered.  Damn my musou addiction. 

Apparently they are saying its not a musou game, but it sure looks like one to me.

"It's not a musou game, but Omega Force is developing it for us."   

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

With Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate out, the Fall of Musou has begun!

[bork]

With Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate out, the Fall of Musou has begun!

It's really weird how this game took almost a full year to get localized.

[MoxManiac]

Gonna wait here for Lyte's SW4 PS4 impressions 

[bork]

Gonna wait here for Lyte's SW4 PS4 impressions 

Well...

Sengoku Musou 4 is by far the best-looking musou game to date (I have not played Hyrule Warriors yet, though) and the PS4 enhancements are pretty noticeable. The models and lighting/effects are much-improved over the already-awesome PS3 version. I also noticed some nice new effects like slight character reflections on rain-slicked ground. Like DW8XL, there's more enemies on-screen and no enemy pop-in. The frame rate seems about the same as the PS3 version, which is fine since it was already pretty stable. This is by far the definitive version of the game.

Will post some screenshots shortly.

[bork]

So yeah, it's pretty.  It's so pretty.  Nice effects n' lighting. 



 

Here's 20 screen captures.  Putting them in a spoiler since they're in glorious 1920x1080.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

Also for comparison, here's Dynasty Warriors 8XL and Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate.  Note that the DW8 picture is from before the patch, which allows the background fog effect to be toned down/turned off.  Really shows how lazy Koei was with WO3U.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

And here's the Vita version and the PS4 versions:

[MoxManiac]

Why does that character look sad during her musou attack?

[bork]

Why does that character look sad during her musou attack?

She's apologizing for the musou attack.  That kind of character.

(PS3 footage)


The funny thing is that Capcom's version of her, in Sengoku Basara 4, is like the complete opposite.



Not just in personality and design, but the moveset, too- SW Naotora is one of the faster characters and fights with kick-based attacks; SB Naotora is actually more of a slow 'powerhouse' character, with a huge sword, and she has attacks that can be modified or canceled into other attacks. 

[Himu]

Why does that character look sad during her musou attack?

She's apologizing for the musou attack.  That kind of character.

[TreIII]

Apparently they are saying its not a musou game, but it sure looks like one to me.

They could technically say it's "not", in the same way that Trinity: Souls of Zill O'll wasn't a Musou game, either. Sure, it had a lot in common with traditional Musou games, but it was definitely more of an "action-rpg" than the usual Musou style that's more of a stage-based hack-n-slash with mild strategy elements.

The thing I like most about about DQ Heroes thus far is that it looks like it may take what I like about Zelda Musou a few steps further. I just hope those gigantic boss fights are more fun than they are in Zelda. A few weeks later, and the lasting impression I get from fighting those bosses is that they're more annoying than fun.

[demi]

Here we go again,

Exclusive bundle @ Nintendo World Store

[tiesto]

The remixed battle tunes are awesome...

[bork]

Hyrule Warriors is out Friday!

Paid DLC packs on the way!

 :'(

[bork]

Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires has been announced for North America and Europe.  PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One in Q1 2015.

Toukiden Kiwami is also coming out in early 2015 for Vita.

[MoxManiac]

Escorting an engineer unit while a unit from the other side of the map goes toward my main camp.. Hyrule warriors is a musiu game alright.

[bork]

Escorting an engineer unit while a unit from the other side of the map goes toward my main camp.. Hyrule warriors is a musiu game alright.

Played the first few levels.

Everything is locked at first, but just play a stage or two and stuff starts opening up.  This game reminds me a lot of Fist Of The North Star: Ken's Rage, actually, in that while it's very much a musou game, it has a slightly different feel to it because of the added Zelda elements.  Even little touches like slashing at grass to get rupees and hearts and crazy cuckoos are there.  The huge stage bosses are awesome and I would love to see something like that pop up in the traditional musou games.  Skulltulas pop up in every stage and you can beat them for bonuses...only when I go to where they're supposed to be, I'm not finding anything.

Also similar to Ken's Rage are character skill trees, divided up into offensive/defensive/assist sections.  You can get new weapons, armor, make items, and fuse items/weapons together too.

Visually, it's hard to say if this is the best musou out of all the PS3/360/Wii U games.  I want to say it is, but Samurai Warriors 4 on PS3 is also very impressive.  The game doesn't beat the PS4 Samurai Warriors 4 in this area, although the framerate is pretty solid for the most part.  The audio seems to go in and out of sounding like a regular Zelda game and sounding like a generic musou butt rock track.  It's weird.  There's also no spoken dialogue, except for the narration between levels.  Also weird.

I like this game a lot...but Samurai Warriors 4 is still better. 

[Himu]

Sounds great.

do nintendo fans like it?

[demi]

This game is dope. As a diehard Musou fan, it is the best ever. I'm a huge Musou fan. I've always liked Musou.

[Himu]

[bork]

Something some people may miss-- if you want to start running, hit B to dodge and hold the button down to go right into running animation. 

Finished what I guess could be considered the "light" side of the game and beat Cia.  The Temple Of Souls stage, which looks like a twisted haunted house of sorts, is easily the best-looking stage in the game.  Totally different than any other musou game...wish more stages looked like it did.

Now I'm playing as Gannondorf.  He seems more powerful than all the characters right out of the gate, but is slower.  How much more powerful?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, on his first stage, you have to fight all three of the "giant monster" bosses that the game made you fight one at a time before...all at the same time.  I mowed them down pretty easily.

[close]

Big G is crazy fucking strong.  Slow, but strong.

Sounds great.

do nintendo fans like it?

Seems to be mixed, and yup, there really are some posts like Demi's out there.   

[Trent Dole]

Well SW3 was Wii only in the west. 

[Himu]

Well SW3 was Wii only in the west. 

don't fucking remind us

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

So I discovered the Gauntlet Mode on WO3 Ultimate and wow, this mode can kick the shit out of you.  Fortunately you keep any items and growth points you get when your team eventually gets wiped out.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

WO3 Ultimate has a shitload of post game content

[bork]

 

[Himu]

LET YOUR SOUL BURN

ARE YOU READY SAMURAI WARRIORS?!?!

[bork]

 


Enjoy it, guys!  My crazy ass would probably even buy it again in English if Bayonetta 2 weren't coming out this week.

[Cheddahz]

I got WO3 Ultimate for my Vita for super cheap thanks to some glitch..what the hell am I suppose to do (it's my first musou game)

[Trent Dole]

I got WO3 Ultimate for my Vita for super cheap thanks to some glitch..what the hell am I suppose to do (it's my first musou game)

KILL ALL THE THINGS

[bork]

I got WO3 Ultimate for my Vita for super cheap thanks to some glitch..what the hell am I suppose to do (it's my first musou game)

Start off by progressing further and getting more characters unlocked.  You'll have to get the friendship bonds up between certain characters to unlock side missions, which also leads to more characters, too.

[Himu]

Why didn't anyone tell me that Samurai Warriors 4 ps3 was going to be psn only?

[bork]

Why didn't anyone tell me that Samurai Warriors 4 ps3 was going to be psn only?

I thought it was common knowledge that only the PS4 version was getting a retail release?

[bork]

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/10/21/samurai-warriors-chronicle-3-introduces-new-time-attack-stage-mode/

Koei recycling models again- LU BU RETURNS FOR YOU TO RUN AWAY FROM IN SENGOKU MUSOU!

[Himu]

Impressions:

- I love the combat, it's traditional Samurai Warriors slow, but strikes a balance between that and Warriors Orochi 3 esque combat.
- Hyper mode makes the SW move list even more awesome. Yes. YESSSS.
- The cutscenes where the character talk in between maps are great. There's no decisions or anything, but you get a lot of good story exposition and since I love Samurai Warriors for the characters in a lot of ways, It really enhances the game for me.
- I hate the fact that objectives are prompts now and you have some huge ass map. It breaks the flow. Also, Samurai Warriors usually feels hectic despite the slower pace than Dynasty Warriors because you've got mission after mission to complete and you have to prioiritize, strategize, and act quick. So far, it's very relaxed and feels DW-ish. I don't like that. It doesn't have the iconic SamWar tension and I'm a few maps into Oda's.
- I'm split on the fact that there's now a clan-based story mode. On one hand it breaks up the pace, on the other, it just feels wrong for SW for me. At the very least, we have way more options than we did in DW7 and 8 in regards to what characters we want to play as, so if you want to you can play as the same character the whole mode like in the past, it seems. But on the flip side, story mode is way shorter.

The games content also feels...basic. In SamWar 2 - my favorite Musou - you had that board game thing, you had a fighter game mode, you have the roguelike-esque mode where you went from floor to floor and engaged in insane situations, on top of free and story mode. This just has a shorter story-mode, a free mode, and some Conquest mode. That's it.

I like the game so far, but it's missing a couple of things that makes Samurai Warriors the superior Warriors series for me.

[Himu]

Gosh combat may be the best its ever been in a musou. Hyper attacks.

[Himu]

Those who hate the objectives popping up on the screen and ruining the game flow, go to options and then gameplay settings and turn that shit off, it's awful.

Chronicle mode is fun. Really fun, despite featuring CAW. I usually don't like CAW in my Warriors games, but this is great.

Still not liking the DW-ized difficulty. Sigh.

[bork]

But on the flip side, story mode is way shorter.

Nah, not all of the routes are open to you yet.  There's more than what is initially shown and some routes are much longer than others.  The difficulty also starts to ramp up with the later/longer routes.

It took me 30 or so hours to clear the game.

The games content also feels...basic. In SamWar 2 - my favorite Musou - you had that board game thing, you had a fighter game mode, you have the roguelike-esque mode where you went from floor to floor and engaged in insane situations, on top of free and story mode. This just has a shorter story-mode, a free mode, and some Conquest mode. That's it.

The rogue-like mode you're referring to looks like it's going to be in Sengoku Musou Chronicle 3...which is Vita and 3DS only for whatever reason.  I'm hoping we get an XL version with this kind of additional content.

Anyway, between the story and conquest mode, I'm happy with the game.  Plenty of content.

[Bebpo]

So SW4 is worth picking up on PS4?

[bork]

So SW4 is worth picking up on PS4?

Yup.

[Himu]

Have a day off today so I'm playing SW4. I bumped it to hard, and the maps are still shit.

It's a great game because the combat system is amazing, but it isn't what I want from Samurai Warriors. They have completely Dynasty Warrior-ized this series and took away its identity to make it more accessible. Honestly, it makes me want to import Samurai Warriors 3Z and play that instead.

[Himu]

I think this may be my last Musou for a long time. I can't get over what they've done to SW. It's pretty clear they're chasing Basara money and have decided to make the game reflect that by making stages linear as fuck.

[bork]

I am assuming you are referring to SW2, which I haven't played in forever.  What seems so different and more DW-like to you?

It's nothing like Basara is.  The stages do not have that kind of straight linear feel to them.

[Himu]

I am assuming you are referring to SW2, which I haven't played in forever.  What seems so different and more DW-like to you?

It's nothing like Basara is.  The stages do not have that kind of straight linear feel to them.

Watch this video. Then play Samurai Warriors 4.



This video has event after event after event. You have to protect all enemy officers or risk game over. But at the same time, you have to halt the enemies retreat. After that, when reinforcements come, Tadakatsu is heading towards your main camp, Ina's heading towards the Shimazu army - your ally, and Naomasa Ii and Watanabe are headed for ANOTHER ally. But remember: GAME OVER IF ONE OF YOUR ALLIES DIES, so ya know, no pressure, so you better hurry the fuck up. So you have to balance three different missions at once. Actually, make that four. There's SO MUCH stuff going on and it becomes a tense delicate balancing act of priorities with hacking and slashing. I loved it. Even Samurai Warriors Chronicles has all of this. Swamping the player with insane amount of priorities that they have to shuffle around is Samurai Warriors tradition.

And SW4 ain't that. So far, and I'm pretty much done with Oda's campaign, it's just really boring, generic mission conditions with barely anything in the way of the mission prioritization that was in earlier games. Even morale doesn't seem to do shit in this one, and finding the standard bearer is far too easy. More than that, look at the map of the video I just posted. It's confusing. So far every map I've encountered in SW4 is pretty basic. It's very static and very action-focused and not tactical. DW and Basara make a perfect comparison. Even the crowd control triangle moves feel like a DW-esque thing because it makes mobs die like a hot knife against butter, when traditionally, mobs have always been MUCH stronger in SW than in DW. Archers and gunmen FUCK YOU UP in SW2. But a couple of triangle moves against a giant mob in SW4? Pssh. Koei Tecmo have made one of their more unique Musou series' into a homogeneous Dynasty Warriors retread without being in China.

[bork]

I think you need to play some of the other routes first.

That said, it sounds like what you want is what Chronicles 3 looks to be.

[Himu]

Chronicle Mode is the best thing about this game besides the revamped combat. It's excellent. On hard mode especially.

[Himu]

Hmmm.

I think I've played enough of SW4 to give it a fair review. Note that I did not play SW3. Thanks a lot for that KT.

+ Usual Samurai Warriors great move set system and variety between characters.
+ Excellent presentation, aside from the Free Mode character select, which isn't the usual flash Musou way at all. Pretty vanilla, in fact, considering the rest of the games sleek UI.
+ Really good music, but that's not unusual for the series.
+ Chronicles Mode is a pretty fantastic mode and the games saving grace. There's a lot of options, tons of content, and lots of interesting/cute character interactions you wouldn't normally see. The character relationship system is nice, and the cutscenes that happen when raising a characters friendship are full of personality and funny choices. It's a really charming game mode.
+ The exposition in between maps in Story mode is a welcome addition. You get some exposition on why Mitsunari probably did what he did, and the way the clans stories' unfold and connect to each other is pretty sweet.
+ Story mode in general is pretty decent, story-wise, because it continuously builds upon established relationships and telling a STORY and not just map after map of goodness without much cohesion.

That's all I can say for the games positives.

- Story mode, besides telling the story, is a huge step back. The fact that the story isn't told through characters decreases the amount of maps in the game a tremendous amount, and this isn't a quality over quantity thing either. This makes Chronicles mode the main mode due to how little content is actually in story mode.
- The skill system is awful. In past Warriors games you'd get a giant list of skills, and customize weapons so that your character had whatever skills you deemed necessary. In this, you cannot customize skills. They come hard locked on to weapons. You can't take them out or anything. You can't add skills to a weapon. You can't change the skills that are on a weapon. If you want to have a specific weapon with specific skills, you're going to be grinding for loot drops.
- Speaking of loot drops, the loot is dog shit. I've been playing on hard and nightmare and I've yet to get any good weapons or skills. I repeatedly get the same 33's and 50's or 55's. Just basic shit. Normally, higher difficulties renders better drops. Not in this case.
- Speaking of difficulty, this game is butt easy. I put it on hard and it's still easy as all hell. There's very little balance. Enemy officers rarely, if ever, use their musou on you. I've played about 20 hours so far, and I've only had one enemy officer use their musou on me. The new hyper attacks make the trademark Samurai Warriors gameplay in to a Musou-fest, which is exactly what DW has turned itself into. You can gain musou gauge without any effort. In past Samurai Warriors games that I've played (1, 2, Chronicles), gaining a musou takes a bit more effort. Just now I was playing as Nobunaga and fighting two officers. I hit one with a musou, and refilled my gauge in less than five seconds, and then wasted the other officer with another one. This is on Hard mode. Objectives are easy, officers are easy, maps are easy.
- Due to the randomness of Chronicles mode, the mission objectives start to get canned and repetitive.
- Objectives are nonsensical and generic "kill the officer!" There's nothing in the way of interesting map design, like taking out cannons that are hitting your army hard affecting morale, or trying to save the peasants so they can help you later on, or anything. Boring.
- SW's unique maps like this: Have been completely taken out.
- The combo system has been ruined. Hyper attacks are flashy, but lead to very little in the way of cohesive combos due to how fast you're going and how little control you are alloted. I can rack up 1000 combo without any effort at all just mashing.
- Hyper attacks in general. While at first they're cool when loading up the game, they end up being a hindrance than anything else. They make characters in Samurai Warriors, who have been prided for their individuality into something more Dynasty Warriors-ish that makes them homogeneous. It makes no sense the Okuni, a bloody heavenly and graceful Goddess teleports and moves as fast as the Oda, who is billed as a demon conqueror. The final move separates each character, but ultimately, the look is still same-y. This is without mentioning how effortless hyper attacks make taking out waves of enemies even on harder modes, it's nothing but slashing butter. This is what helps build up the aforementioned musou gauge at rapid pace.
- Rage mode is broken to hell. I can take out an enemy officer's hp 75% on hard and nightmare.
- Enemy variety has gone out of the window. In SW2, you'd regularly fight enemies that throw bombs, bowmen, gunmen, giant sumo dudes that fuck you up. They rarely show up in this and aren't nearly as strong as they used to be.
- No officer duel intro/exits/death animations. I always loved those.

Ultimately, this is Samurai Warriors that is a shell of its former self. Less content, less heart and what made it unique from Dynasty Warriors. I can only recommend this to people who play Musou just for the action and mashin'. Maybe story too. If you're someone who enjoys the more technical stuff in the series, avoid this at all costs. This isn't for you. At its heart, SW4 has the makings of a good game. The execution is a highly flawed piece of software and I can only with a brave face describe it as decent at best.

I'll enjoy the rest of the games content, but from here on out, I'm done. Thanks for the memories, KT.

If you have a ps3 and want a Samurai Warriors game, I suggest getting SW2 off of psn instead. If you have a ps4, skip Samurai Warriors 4 altogether and just buy Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate. Support good games, not cynical rip offs.

[bork]

I completely disagree with most of your points.  Loved the fast-paced, more action-oriented take on the game.

Please tell me that you're not trashing this just based on the Oda route.  The more challenging levels are the routes that open up after you clear the default ones.

Also seems rather extreme to give up on the genre because you didn't like one particular title. 

[Himu]

It's based on more than the Oda route. It's based on four routes, actually, and I shouldn't have to play through every single route on the hardest modes just to get a sliver of challenge or encounter an interesting stage, Lyte. That's bullshit and you know it.

And it's not just one title. It's this combined with DW8 vanilla. I feel like I should give them another chance, with DW8 Empires or SW4 XL but it just seems clear that they want to make Musou more action-focused to help out limping sales. I want to give them another chance. But SW is my favorite Musou series and I don't like this direction. If I don't like this direction, why should I bother with others? Looking online, I'm just about the only person who feels this way, so it feels futile to keep throwing money at KT, when it's obvious most of their fanbase are perfectly fine with their new direction.

[bork]

It's based on more than the Oda route. It's based on four routes, actually, and I shouldn't have to play through every single route on the hardest modes just to get a sliver of challenge, Lyte. That's bullshit and you know it.

I have no idea what you've played.  Hence why I suggested playing more of the game first.

And it's not just one title. It's this combined with DW8 vanilla. I feel like I should give them another chance, with DW8 Empires or SW4 XL but it just seems clear that they want to make Musou more action-focused to help out limping sales. I want to give them another chance. But SW is my favorite Musou series and I don't like this direction. If I don't like this direction, why should I bother with others? Looking online, I'm just about the only person who feels this way, so it feels futile to keep throwing money at KT, when it's obvious most of their fanbase are perfectly fine with their new direction.

Yeah, you kind of are.  If you want more of a strategy focus, why wouldn't you wait for empires games?  And who cares about DW8 when you liked XL, right?  They fixed your problems with it, I thought.

Maybe you should just stop buying the vanilla releases or check out some of the other games.  Did you ever try the last Gundam Warriors or One Piece 2?

BTW, a lot of people hated Samurai Warriors 3.  4 is very different compared to it and that's probably why.  One thing those videos you posted did was made me realize that now I can pick up Sengoku Musou 2 XL HD on Vita, since I have a system for my J-account (it's download only on Vita).  They also have Empires HD. 

[Himu]

yeah, I didn't like 8 vanilla. I thought 8 xl was great, though.

I guess getting vanilla ones should be out for me like you say. And I felt I shouldn't wait for Empires because strategy is integral to SW's experience for me. It's even in SW: Chronicles, so I thought it'd be in this too. I didn't get the new Gundam game and One Piece Warriors 2 eventually gets a bit boring. I guess I'll have to wait for SW3XL or whatever. When does DW8 Empires come out?

[Bebpo]

Are the maps smaller?  I want a musou like gundam musou 3 again.

[Himu]

The maps in Chronicles mode are small. I think you'd like it Bebpo.

[bork]

yeah, I didn't like 8 vanilla. I thought 8 xl was great, though.

I guess getting vanilla ones should be out for me like you say. And I felt I shouldn't wait for Empires because strategy is integral to SW's experience for me. It's even in SW: Chronicles, so I thought it'd be in this too.

Makes sense to me to give the game more of an action focus, since there is already Chronicles and Empires.  But I really think you need to go through all the story routes before judging the game.  I don't think it will sway your opinion, but the last two unlockable routes the longest and have the most challenging levels in the game.

I didn't get the new Gundam game and One Piece Warriors 2 eventually gets a bit boring. I guess I'll have to wait for SW3XL or whatever. When does DW8 Empires come out?

Empires isn't even out in Japan yet, so it's gonna be a while.  Chronicles comes out in December in Japan.  I think I'm gonna import the Vita version.  Probably doesn't seem like a surprise but I wasn't planning on it initially.  I wanted there to be a console version but with the Vita TV that doesn't matter anymore, I suppose.

I mention Gundam because it does have a bit more of a strategy focus, what with holding/conquering zones and rushing to aid allies and all that.  I need to get back to that game.  Stopped because I wanted to start it all over again on my Japanese account for DLC use.

[bork]

Are the maps smaller?  I want a musou like gundam musou 3 again.

The story mode maps are a bit smaller (and the Chronicle mode maps are much smaller, like Himu said), plus with the game's speed and character switching system, you're able to zip around the maps waaaaay faster than all the other musou games.

[Himu]

Wow. Chronicles mode becomes a breeze once you get to a certain level of have the right weapon. I'm like level 20 and have an upgraded 110 or weapon and I'm just mowing through enemies and it's ridiculous and this is on hard mode. I may need to bump it to Nightmare. This game has zero sense of balance wtf.

[Himu]

Great launch trailer.

[Himu]

Ways to fix Samurai Warriors 4 in the XL expansion:

The core premise of a more action-focused SW is fine, but there needs to be balance.

1. Only hyper attack-based characters can use hyper attacks as they are now and they should be horrifically nerfed.
2. All other characters, change their triangle hyper to a normal charge move. This gives all characters a normal moveset and a charge moveset.
3. Enemy officers should use musous. Enemy AI in general needs to be upped.
4. A Tachibana clan campaign. Why is there no Tachibana campaign? My poor Ginchiyo.
5. Skills should be removable and capable of being added to every weapon. Skills should be drops or learned ala DW8.
6. Loot drops should be much better than we're getting in vanilla SW4.
7. Drop the gem system, it's stupid and easily abusable.
8. Bring back bodyguards. Sumo bodyguard, ninja bodyguard, samurai bodyguard, priest bodyguards, whatever. Have a mode that allows you to level them.
9. More side missions on maps.
10. More diversity among characters. Ninja paths for example should be in every single stage.
11. Intros and exits for every enemy officer when duels happen. Make the duel intros dynamic that give off the feeling of a true samurai duel like the stand off in this:



Before a big confrontation, I want my character to have a stare off with person whose butt I'm about to kick.

12. Officer death animations need to come back. When I kill officers I want to see a grisly death scene with a memorable quote like,"I...I thought they said there would be white!?!" *collapse*



The potential is there.

[Van Cruncheon]

hyper attacks need to be nerfed. there is no reason to mash anything other than triangle save during the initial officer confrontation, and then it's square once, triangle x 100000000 (with some X presses thrown in to combo link).

pretty as sw4 is, sw3 xl was the better game.

[Himu]

Hyper attacks are dog shit.

[Van Cruncheon]

by "dog shit" you better mean "horribly overpowered in a gamebreaking way" or i'mma make of your mouth such a toilet