Am I insane for thinking The Last of Us is an abomination?

[magus]

the dark world music dungeon get used for all the 8 dark world dungeons so umm... it seems to me you are the one who's nitpicking by telling me "it uses a different music in the random caves"
besides aren't the first 2 links the same music?

Link to the Past *could* have a dungeon that takes place in the clouds

i find this comment funny because minish cap HAS a dungeon that takes place in the clouds



it is a simple matter of giving a fuck,like for example... you have an ice dungeon in link to the past? put ice statue's that drips,fill that shit with icey monsters like yeti's and golem made of ice,make the floor slippery



there is nothing in this screenshot that tells me "ice dungeon" other than it features an icey palette,even doing something as stupid as changing the motif on locked doors would be something



ehy... wait a second,what's that? on 0:10

In Dark Palace and Ganon's Tower

(Image removed from quote.)

and what's those thing at 1:48

Only in Swamp Palace:

(Image removed from quote.)

and here's the thing,i wasn't even looking to disprove the fact if an enemy appears or not in certain places,i picked one random video of the game and it happened

[Eel O'Brian]

i think last of us looks pretty coo

hopefully it is more like uncharted 2 and way, way, way, less like uncharted 3

[recursivelyenumerable]

IIRC Prole also hates LTTP for some unfathomable reason

[Momo]

*not part of the link to the past debate just a general observation since mega man was mentioned*

MM2 & MM3 I hold very dear, I can recognize every single theme in MM3, which I hold especially dear, this being my fav

[Tasty]

Favorite track from anything Mega Man, ever:



Wily's Castle in MM2 and all of X's OST is up there though. Mega Man has great music in general...

it is a simple matter of giving a fuck,like for example... you have an ice dungeon in link to the past? put ice statue's that drips,fill that shit with icey monsters like yeti's and golem made of ice,make the floor slippery

(Image removed from quote.)

there is nothing in this screenshot that tells me "ice dungeon" other than it features an icey palette,even doing something as stupid as changing the motif on locked doors would be something

Uhh it does have slippery floors you moron, I posted a pic of a single room and you make all these crazy assumptions about how bland it it. I guess it only has block pushing puzzles to, ya mook?

Oh and what's these?



durrr, must be some fricking ice enemies! A penguin and an "ice golem," how about that.

ehy... wait a second,what's that? on 0:10

In Dark Palace and Ganon's Tower

(Image removed from quote.)

Bad info.

and what's those thing at 1:48

Only in Swamp Palace:

(Image removed from quote.)

From memory. In any case, I looked it up and this enemy only appears in Swamp and Ice Palaces. It's basically a water-themed enemy. It doesn't take away from my overall point which until now you haven't even recognized; LttP has an astounding amount of enemy variety and there's more enemy kinds exclusive to dungeons than repeated.

[Raban]

Andrex, can't you just like a game without riding its dick every time someone mentions they don't like it? Who gives a shit if Magus doesn't like A Link to the Past. It's a good game despite whatever flaws it may have.

There aren't any perfect games, and you're being delusional if you think any one is worth all this effort to defend. Just some friendly advice.

[Robo]

I'm just glad we finally have a catch-all thread for stupidity.

[maxy]

If Hitler was still alive he would love cutscenes.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I wonder if anybody will guess why?

[close]

Because he's cutting Jews?

No.

Control.

Of the oven

Little bit late but


In a manner of speaking,yes.
If small people lived in your oven,you would be like a god to them.

Random stuff, probability,statistics...not good for dictators
Some say that Hitler lost the war because he disliked one particular branch of science(heavily based on the above stuff).

[magus]

Uhh it does have slippery floors you moron, I posted a pic of a single room and you make all these crazy assumptions about how bland it it. I guess it only has block pushing puzzles to, ya mook?

eh funny thing is that it shows exactly at 0:10
why you think i'm making crazy assumptions? the whole thing is there in that video i posted,it features the same block switching,button pushing,and general look of all the other dungeon,but i'm supposed to look the other way around because it feature two whole new enemy? "but magus then what do you want?" do it like that minish cap video i posted above,give some flavor to each dungeon,give each dungeon a different music and have it feature it's own spin,it's that simple

From memory. In any case, I looked it up and this enemy only appears in Swamp and Ice Palaces. It's basically a water-themed enemy. It doesn't take away from my overall point which until now you haven't even recognized; LttP has an astounding amount of enemy variety and there's more enemy kinds exclusive to dungeons than repeated.

it's not something i can confirm or say that is wrong cause frankly i don't remember it,there is those knight which then turn into moblins when you switch to dark world,a bunch of skeletons,those slimes,those annoying traps that slams at you as soon as you enter a door,those cyclops that throws bomb at you,those cross thingie that i think dies only when hit with a boomerang and then i draw a blank... that's how flat the game goes in my mind and adding stuff like the miniboss  at the begin of the game kinda reeks of desperation to me,like when someone makes a wii games list to show 3rd party support exist and add ubi stuff in it,might as well add the boss at this point

i really need to stop clicking that "revive them" button

last of us looks neat, i just hope it's not as scripted as unchi got to be at times.

aww don't be like that oscar-chan,who i am going to make my buddy cop routine with? i mean himuro can probably do the black cop but it just wouldn't be the same :'(

[Tasty]

Andrex, can't you just like a game without riding its dick every time someone mentions they don't like it? Who gives a shit if Magus doesn't like A Link to the Past. It's a good game despite whatever flaws it may have.

There aren't any perfect games, and you're being delusional if you think any one is worth all this effort to defend. Just some friendly advice.

Lulz, yeah I'm the only one dickriding Link to the Past in this thread and I'm the only one calling out Magus for being a dope. Sure.

[Raban]

Lulz, yeah I'm the only one dickriding Link to the Past in this thread and I'm the only one calling out Magus for being a dope. Sure.

You aren't, and neither are you the first to do it. We don't need anymore people champing at the bit to try and prove Magus' opinions wrong. That's the very definition of an exercise in futility.

[Momo]

I'm sure no one is taking this disagreement seriously

[magus]

I'm sure no one is taking this disagreement seriously

this annoys me,this same shit already happened when i said something mean about FFV,the modus operandi is always the same,i say i don't like something about a game that is considered a classic,himuro and oscar goes "LOLZ MAGUS IS STUPID" sometimes emcee comes and goes "i bet he's a loner who wants attention durrrrrrrrrr" and then i get pissed because i had to deal with a bunch of rude morons simply for voicing an opinion

i mean do you see me pull the same shit on other people here on the bore? people said they didn't like FFVII and somehow i was able to survive without calling anybody names,truly a warrior way,sometimes i wonder why i do even bother

[Human Snorenado]

The problem is that your opinions tend to be laughably dumb to anyone who doesn't have brain damage.

[magus]

The problem is that your opinions tend to be laughably dumb to anyone who doesn't have brain damage.

tl;dr- if you enjoy the MGS series you should probably shoot yourself in the face

brb shooting myself in the face

[Barry Egan]

I'm sure no one is taking this disagreement seriously

this annoys me,this same shit already happened when i said something mean about FFV,the modus operandi is always the same,i say i don't like something about a game that is considered a classic,himuro and oscar goes "LOLZ MAGUS IS STUPID" sometimes emcee comes and goes "i bet he's a loner who wants attention durrrrrrrrrr" and then i get pissed because i had to deal with a bunch of rude morons simply for voicing an opinion

i mean do you see me pull the same shit on other people here on the bore? people said they didn't like FFVII and somehow i was able to survive without calling anybody names,truly a warrior way,sometimes i wonder why i do even bother

[magus]

You said there were no unique enemies to the dungeons; there are.

no,i said

and mostly use the same graphics and enemies

which is not the same thing,then andrex posted a list of dungeon exclusive enemies,then i told him that having 1 or 2 exclusive enemies don't make a difference big enough... i see nothing wrong here,mostly doesn't mean "there are no exclusive enemies at all"

You said there was only one dungeon song; there are at least two

there aren't at least two,there are two,period,one for light world dungeons and one for the dark world dungeons,but the majority of the game takes place in the dark world so once again,this seems to me like twisting my argument which was "this music get reused a lot" into "this fact is incorrect! because the initial dungeon has a different music than the one that plays in the other one! therefore you are wrong!" does that sounds like a proper response to you?

You said the soldier appeared in almost every dungeon; he appears in almost none of the dungeons.

i was wrong and i dropped the argument,andrex was wrong about the medusa too,be sure that i won't hold that against him

On top of that, when your incorrect information is pointed out to you, you usually either don't acknowledge that you were wrong or you just slough it off like your supporting information didn't actually matter after all.

see above

which overall has less variety in music

link's awakening?

You have two similar games and you are saying one is bad for this and this but the other is not.

i said what i like in link's awakening

link's awakening has all the weird NPC,those 2D segments,all the gimmicky boss

link's awakening introduce enough elements even with something as basic as giving each dungeon it's own music and putting mid-boss for breaking the action,that i can look past the fact that the dungeon of link's awakening looks similiar to each other,the bosses too,one of them is a giant angler fish you fight underwater in an appropriate water dungeon,that gives lot of flair to the game,in comparison the bosses of link to the past feels random

when called on it you ignore it

i'm sorry if people see it as ignoring it,but if i think i'm wrong i simply tend to drop the argument,it's not out of malice or anything,it's just better to jump to the next topic

and what annoys you one day with one thing seems to have no affect on you the next day or the next thing.

this reminds me when i said that other m had too many cutscenes and then demi went and said "but magus don't you play jrpg?!?!?!?" and then i had to reply "the problem is that those cutscene are boring" the fact that i don't like a game that features a job system with 20 jobs or one where the jobs are incredibly rigid doesn't mean i have to hate every single game that features a job system,each case has it's own specific

Anyway, that's all I've got to say about that.  Actually no, one more thing: when confronted about your poor style of argument, you have a tendency to verbally climb up on a cross and start "poor me"-ing, which is also really fucking annoying in a disagreement.  It's the adult equivalent of crying when the teacher puts red ink on your homework.

well i don't know,what would be the proper response? fuck you too is too aggresive for a somber place like this,passive aggressive silence perhaps? does that even work on the internet?

I don't dislike you, magus, but I'm starting to.  It's up to you if you care enough about that to change things or not.

i like the bore but i'm sick of feeling like a nuisance everytime i voice my (negative) opinion about something,i'm starting to realize that me and online gaming forum simply don't work together,i just want to open my big flappy mouth but everybody is always ready to jump at my throat and tell me i'm doing it cause i have daddy issues and such,it's incredibly annoying and the whole reason i left gaf was exactly that

[Raban]

Don't leave, magus, I actually like your negativity. Every video game message board I've been on simply loves to circle jerk over games, whether it be some "untouchable classic" or new hotness, but I can always rely on you to bring your honest opinion, and that's what brought me to this board in the first place.

[Himu]

Yeah, even if I give you guff, make fun of you, and sometimes think your opinions make no sense, I appreciate the honesty.

[Tasty]

I was going to leave this alone, but since you seem actually curious as to why this happens to you and nobody else around here, magus, I will oblige.

It's not your opinions that infuriate people, generally.  "I dislike Link to the Past" is perhaps controversial but not incorrect insofar as it is just you reporting your experience with the game.  "I dislike Link to the Past because it's bland" will probably provoke more disagreement but is also not incorrect, as you are again just reporting your experience.  What sets people off with you comes down to two things you do, past these types of opinion statements.

First, you tend to support your opinions with statements that *are* incorrect.  You said there were no unique enemies to the dungeons; there are.  You said there was only one dungeon song; there are at least two.  You said the soldier appeared in almost every dungeon; he appears in almost none of the dungeons.  These are not opinions.  These are statements, and they are incorrect.  People like to correct people who use incorrect statements as supporting information in disagreements.  You do this a *lot*, I should stress, and it's often with basic information.  On top of that, when your incorrect information is pointed out to you, you usually either don't acknowledge that you were wrong or you just slough it off like your supporting information didn't actually matter after all. 

The second reason people tend to jump on you is that you apply your reasoning inconsistently.  You call out Link to the Past for having little variety in music and dungeon tiles that look too similar, but then go on to praise Link's Awakening, which overall has less variety in music and, owing to the fact that it's on Game Boy, more similar looking dungeon tiles.  This isn't an apples to oranges comparison.  You have two similar games and you are saying one is bad for this and this but the other is not.  You do this a lot, too, and as people get to know more and more about you and your opinions, the lack of consistency is frustrating because it starts to feel like it's hard to tell if you're ever being genuine or not.

Both of these combined makes it feel like it's pointless to speak with you, particularly when the topic is one of disagreement.  You throw out false information to support yourself, when called on it you ignore it or laugh it off, and what annoys you one day with one thing seems to have no affect on you the next day or the next thing.  These are the traits of perhaps the most irritating people to converse with, because it makes you come off as either stupid, purposefully obtuse, or disingenuous.  Nobody wants to talk to people like that.

Anyway, that's all I've got to say about that.  Actually no, one more thing: when confronted about your poor style of argument, you have a tendency to verbally climb up on a cross and start "poor me"-ing, which is also really fucking annoying in a disagreement.  It's the adult equivalent of crying when the teacher puts red ink on your homework.

I don't dislike you, magus, but I'm starting to.  It's up to you if you care enough about that to change things or not.

Newsfeed this whole post.

I'm being serious.

[Tasty]

As an addendum, I don't want Magus to leave, and I actually do regret the light name-calling in my last post. I'm trying not to do that anymore.

In any case, a small bit of negativity in the face of overwhelming positivity is refreshing. It's just as Oscar said, if you're going to post things that are wrong (or things that I believe to be wrong), I'll post why I think it's wrong. It's that simple.

[Positive Touch]

hall of fame material right here, folks

[Trent Dole]

fagus sux lol

[Human Snorenado]

I want magus to leave, but then again I'm an asshole.

[etiolate]

Why are people talking about Zelda, and not how Kojima sucks balls and has infected the industry with his penis envy of shitty action movies?

[frod]

Why are people talking about Zelda, and not how Kojima sucks balls and has infected the industry with his penis envy of shitty action movies?

I've never been able to "play" more than two hours of any metal gear solid game. The poster child of the "Playstation Generation" game for gamers ashamed of playing video games. Give me kideo games over hideo games any day.

[magus]

That post wasn't about continuing the argument about Zelda, magus.  If that's what you got from it, I don't know what else to say to you.  I'm not the only one who is irritated with the way you express yourself, but what I'm trying to do here is articulate to you why people get annoyed.  You're not the only one here with very unusual tastes, but you do seem to be a lightning rod for backlash for expressing them.  I'm telling you why I go off on you and not, for example, Sceneman.  Do what you will with what I've said, but you can never say you don't know why Oscar jumps down your throat now.

well as i said,if i drop or ignore something it is because i was wrong or i don't have much else to add to it,and if i say i like "this" and i don't like "that" it's because "this" has a difference that "that" doesn't even tough "this" and "that" have a lot of similiarities

Also, while I see you've gotten the desired response from a couple of people with what you've done, you'll not be getting it from me.  If you want to leave, leave.  If you want to stay, stay.  Don't talk about leaving if etc etc, threaten to leave if etc etc.  It's a bitch move.  You're attempting to elicit sympathy, exempt yourself from criticism, and basically control the discussion in one of the most underhanded and cowardly ways possible by threatening to leave.  You are free to express your opinions, no matter how nutty or contrary or rage-inducing they might be.  You are not, however, free to express them without threat of reply.  If you truly can't handle that, then please, leave.  I have enough people I have to treat with kid gloves in my life, I certainly don't need to be worrying about pulling my punches in a video game discussion forum.  I don't want you to feel bad, but I won't let you use my desire for you to not feel bad to control how I treat you in a conversation.

mmm yeah i get what you are saying and i don't want to be treated better nor do i want to guilt trip people,but i'd want to be in harmony with the bore and frankly i don't know how to express this concept other than saying "this shit is making me so angry i feel like leaving" i mean there it's all fine and dandy if andrex tells me i'm wrong and we have an argument but how the heck i'm supposed to answer to this?

i really need to stop clicking that "revive them" button

I don't dislike you, magus, but I'm starting to.  It's up to you if you care enough about that to change things or not.

it feels like a personal attack,there is no harmony in this,hearing emcee saying that i do it because i want people to pay attention to me isn't very nice either and if i had the chance,i'd choke him over the internet like... right now,someone will probably say "bla-bla-bla thick skinned" but i can only be thick skinned up to a certain point,you guys want a freaking komodo dragon

[EmCeeGrammar]

I say it Magus, because I've been there myself, recognise it when I see it, and am still guilty of it sometimes.  Your preferences and attitudes fluctuate so much its obvious that you're presenting a constant stance that purposefully conflicts with any given discussion to illicit a response.  I'm typing this with a straight face. BE. MORE. APATHETIC. 

[magus]

If someone pisses you off, then let them have it.  It's more respectable than self-pity any day of the week.

what? calling you guys morons who jump at my throat is my way of letting you having it

and i never tought someone would see my comment as self-pity,saying that i don't want to deal with you guys if you don't want to deal with me is a simple fact,i don't want to screw with your toughts or action in any manner,pinky swear... i like that we have heated discussion,what point there would be in voicing an opinion otherwise? it's just that once in a while the shit hits the fan and i feel really angry about it that i don't know how to voice it in a manner that get across

Your preferences and attitudes fluctuate so much its obvious that you're presenting a constant stance that purposefully conflicts with any given discussion to illicit a response.

do i? i mean i enjoy being on the other side of an argument but i certainly don't say something i don't think just to trigger an argument on purpouse,you will never see me change my stance on open world being sucky or animu jrpg being better than dudebro shooters for example

[maxy]

wtf are you people arguing about?

Zelda?
hahaha

also magus,you should stop responding to various distinguished mentally-challenged fellows around here(most of them are just trying to push you over the edge)

relax,have some cold beer

[Himu]

Why are people talking about Zelda, and not how Kojima sucks balls and has infected the industry with his penis envy of shitty action movies?

I've never been able to "play" more than two hours of any metal gear solid game. The poster child of the "Playstation Generation" game for gamers ashamed of playing video games. Give me kideo games over hideo games any day.

You have never beaten a Metal Gear Solid game or read what MGS fans who play MGS for gameplay do then. MGS can be very hardcore depending on the fan. Speed runs, no kill runs, no alert runs, hard and extreme mode runs (memorization, being alert, awareness, paying attention to sound) where you don't have radar...Your post is not only errornous, it is ridiculous because it has grouped all fans into one pool who may or may not like the games for similar or separate reasons.

Why are people talking about Zelda, and not how Kojima sucks balls and has infected the industry with his penis envy of shitty action movies?

Because Kojima isn't the one that did this and blaming one entity for Hollywood gaming is stupid considering gaming history and Metal Gear Solid games that aren't 4 are fucking amazing.

[Himu]

Also, because MGS games will always be more hardcore than any game Nintendo ever puts out. Suck my dick, Etiolate.

[Human Snorenado]

Himu, I don't care how many VR missions or "hardcore speed runs" you do of MGS2, it will always be the shitburger of a game that I beat, got up to make a sandwich during the ending acid-fueled cutscene, and came back and it wasn't even half way done.

[brob]

I like MGS2, but people are well within reason calling it a shit game based on the ludicrous cut-scenes.

[Human Snorenado]

I'm actually pretty fond of the MGS core gameplay- it's one of the few games that does "stealth" stuff right in my opinion.

Too bad Kojima wants me to sit through the equivalent of a couple of really dumb movies in order to play his games.

[Momo]

I'd rather play Kojima games like
Snatcher
Policenauts
Boktai
Penguin Adventure
Tokimeki Memorial (Fun to fumble through)
ZOE

[Himu]

I haven't played MGS2 in so long I don't even know wtf I'd think if I played it today

[Himu]

I'm actually pretty fond of the MGS core gameplay- it's one of the few games that does "stealth" stuff right in my opinion.

Too bad Kojima wants me to sit through the equivalent of a couple of really dumb movies in order to play his games.

Depends on the game, though. 3 has a really great gameplay and cutscene ratio, but on the other extreme there's 4. But ultimately, the first playthrough of a MGS game is always the worst one. After that, I always skip the cutscenes. You don't have to sit through shit. I seriously don't even know what you're talking about because sitting through anything goes against my entire MGS experience.

and now we're back around to games that cover up their gameplay inadequacies by masquerading as art

full circle!

I wouldn't say MGS masquerades as art. I'd say that it's the certain fans who have built up MGS as art that give this idea. The actual games' content is pulp, rife with action movie cliches, and weird humor/dialogue. They're supposed to be stupid, and they're supposed to be entertaining. They're just pulp b-movies in game form. You'd have to be a fool, or a teenager, to actually think that MGS games present themselves as being artistic.

[Stoney Mason]

I bounce back and forth between my opinions on the MGS series. On one hand I think its his business and its a bit of japanese weirdness so let him do whatever he wants when it comes to cutscenes. On the other hand, the idea of editing your work seems like a good idea for anybody and for any work of entertainment. MGS cutscenes violate the movie editing rule of get in late in a scene and get out early. He gets in early and stays late. I think there is a happy medium which he no longer is striving for. It feels overly indulgent at this point.

Which is a completely separate debate from the game side. MGS was a revolution in both gameplay terms (Not that it was the first stealth game) and presentation terms. On the gameplay side its still solid although no longer revolutionary (although MGS 4 is the first one that felt mostly right control wise for me) and the presentation side is technically impressive but not so progressive anymore.

[brob]

I have never seen the majority of cut scenes in MGS3. the game starts out with way too much codec bullshit, so I just started skipping shit left and right. Also, the jungle setting doesn't jell as well with the rigid mechanics of MGS as the box-like MGS1/2 levels. didn't like it very much.

The games would be better with less/no cut scenes though. super obvious stuff. like if you don't glaze a tasty muffin with crusty, coagulated menstruation fluid you'd probably get more people to bite.

[Himu]

MGS3 vanilla has a very outdated camera system. MGS3S is a much better experience. Why they decided to go with top down perspective in a game that is overwhelmingly outdoors I will never know but I agree and mix the old boxy level layouts of MGS 1 and 2.

[Stoney Mason]

MGS 2 was the low point for me. I literally couldn't play that one because all the horseshit story got in the way of my enjoyment of it. For others it seems to be MGS 4 but that one bothered me a lot less. In fact I'm in the minority on here and on GAF in that I like that one. 

It's a weird idea but I think these games should have a "streamlined" version option on the main menu. It has cutscenes but they don't have insane length. Then there could be the "director's cut" which is the same game but with all the added wankery and long stuff that Kojima clearly loves.

[Himu]

I haven't experienced MGS2's story since it came out. Every playthrough since I have made prime use of the start (re: skip) button. I didn't know what post-modern was when I was 16!

MGS 2 was the low point for me. I literally couldn't play that one because all the horseshit story got in the way of my enjoyment of it. For others it seems to be MGS 4 but that one bothered me a lot less. In fact I'm in the minority on here and on GAF in that I like that one. 

It's a weird idea but I think these games should have a "streamlined" version. It has cutscenes but they don't have insane length. Then there could be the "director's cut" which is the same game but with all the added wankery and long stuff that Kojima clearly loves.

Now that MGS4 has the option to fully install the game, the game is actually playable now so I may give it another shot. Due to my playstyle, I'd have to install a new chapter every 20 minutes if I ever replayed that game, and replaying MGS games is the fun part. The fact it took them 4 years to do it is nothing short of pathetic.

[Momo]

Raiden pisses me off.

[frod]

You have never beaten a Metal Gear Solid game or read what MGS fans who play MGS for gameplay do then. MGS can be very hardcore depending on the fan. Speed runs, no kill runs, no alert runs, hard and extreme mode runs (memorization, being alert, awareness, paying attention to sound) where you don't have radar...Your post is not only errornous, it is ridiculous because it has grouped all fans into one pool who may or may not like the games for similar or separate reasons.

Any of this can be applied to games with much better gameplay than MGS. Just like multiplayer can make any game fun.

MGS

[Tasty]

MG Rising looks hot, but I chalk that up to Platinum.

[Rahxephon91]

It's too bad the MGS with the best gameplay(4) is the worst one.

[Himu]

You mean best MECHANICS, and you're right. But it doesn't have the best gameplay because it lacks gameplay.

[Momo]

You guys forgetting or ignoring Peace Walker? Control layout was pure ass but it had the best gameplay for me. 

[magus]

MGS2 was one of the poster childs of the ps2 generation,i had this huge preview on the magazine i used to buy which had details about how each ice cube would melt following it's own and stupid stuff like that... coincidentaly every pic was from the tanker
i had the whole thing original and it came with this DVD of "the making of" with kojima making dumb comparison of raiden and snake being godzilla and king kong and kojima admitting that he created raiden just because he wanted a pretty boy to attract the chicks

and i like the idea of raiden,it's neat to see the main character turning into a secondary one,raiden itself is kind of annoying but being able to annoy snake is awesome,it also fixes a lot of control of the original metal gear which frankly i always tought it was sort of hard to control and it also fixed some nitpick i had (like the guard in the room being omniscent being who all notice you the instant a ! appear)

and yes i like the cinematic spin of the game too,i mean it's not like games about vampire terrorist joining with doctor octopus grow's on tree you know? tough yes the plot is indeed stupid

Himu, Kojima himself thinks of them as art.  They're cheeky and full of wacky humour, but you're not going to sit there and tell me MGS2 wasn't trying to be a piece of post-modern art.  Because if you do, I will burn you alive for being a big ol' liar.

have you played snatcher oscar? the guy seems to have a fixation with nuclear weapons and the cold war

[Momo]

If Raiden died at the end/middle of MGS2 I would have been absolutely okay with him. He lost all purpose as a story telling mechanism by then and just became another bullshit thing that had to unnecessarily be factored into future MGS titles.

[brob]

MGS2 is all tanker mission and VR for me. great little game.

[Himu]

MGS2 is all tanker mission and VR for me. great little game.

ditto

[Great Rumbler]

I don't remember a whole lot about the ending of MGS2, but I do remember liking it because of how totally bonkers it all was.

[brob]

I appreciate the hilarity of making the entire game about a new character but not saying anything leading up to it's release, going so far as to ask the player if they had played MGS1 (if yes: tanker then big shell, if no: just big shell) to string them along further. just wish it was executed better.

[Stoney Mason]

I was so hyped for MGS 2 and I detested that story so much it ruined the entire experience for me. In my top 5 of biggest gaming disappointments and probably the only one there because of how much the story sucked. Although Shenmue is close for me.

The original is a classic that will always stick with me. I'm in varying levels of completion with MGS 3 & 4 so I can't really speak to those games.

[magus]

the GBC game is awesome and perfectly capture that cinematic feeling of metal gear while being on an 8-bit console,the music also rocks

[Rahxephon91]

You guys forgetting or ignoring Peace Walker? Control layout was pure ass but it had the best gameplay for me.

I don't particularly like Peace Walker. Outside of story reasons I just found the game to be a chore to play.

I played it solo, because well I hate co-op. Doing that makes the bosses more annoying then frustrating. They aren't hard, but they take a lot to kill. So that leads me to just shooting countless rockets and then waiting for a resupply. It's boring and the bosses have no personality or gimmick to make them more bearable. Sure I could try and get better weapons, which leads me to basically level grinding and why the fuck would I want to level grind in a MGS game? Which even more sucks because the actual missions and stuff are even more boring. Small rooms where I can basically stand in a corner and shoot human targets. So most of the time I need not even attempt stealth. But thats for the HD version because now I don't have to fight the controls. But see in the PSP one I wouldn't do that because the controls sucked, I would just run up to guards and CQC them like it was nothing. Again I did'nt feel the need to attempt stealth for most of the game. And I sure wouldn't want to replay any of these missions for weapon grinding.

Yeah the problem with MGS4 is that outside of act 1 and 2, there's little interesting gameplay and the cool idea of stealth on a ever changing battle is dropped. Not that it was executed well anyway.

[etiolate]

I don't like watching my character not move, so I pretty much disliked MGS from the get-go.

When I piss on Hollywood games, I don't aim to say that its impossible to like these games. The main issue is the mentality behind them, the way they are advertised, and the way fans & press talk about them. A trailer that shows nothing of gameplay doesn't interest me. It feels like it's saying "look how well we made this game look like a film you may have seen." Well, okay. That doesn't get my money though. They prey on a sense of shame in regards to videogames, and because of that don't engage games in the right way. This doesn't mean that they can't come up with some fun gameplay here and there, but that they're always looking towards some Hollywood future of gaming. If they wanted to really impress, they'd be looking towards the past where the building blocks are to be found. So, Kojima fashioning himself an auteur of sorts is silly when he doesn't even engage games for what they are and where their benefit to art/media/entertainment are to be found. Plus, his writing doesn't help either.

I also worry about the industry relying on huge AAA blockbuster titles for existence. When they fail, there's so much fallout, and when they succeed, most of them don't add anything to gaming that I enjoy.

Basically, there's a difference between admiring a game because the cutscenes are actually non-painful and holding the game up on a pedestal for those cutscenes.

[Human Snorenado]

I don't like watching my character not move, so I pretty much disliked MGS from the get-go.

When I piss on Hollywood games, I don't aim to say that its impossible to like these games. The main issue is the mentality behind them, the way they are advertised, and the way fans & press talk about them. A trailer that shows nothing of gameplay doesn't interest me. It feels like it's saying "look how well we made this game look like a film you may have seen." Well, okay. That doesn't get my money though. They prey on a sense of shame in regards to videogames, and because of that don't engage games in the right way. This doesn't mean that they can't come up with some fun gameplay here and there, but that they're always looking towards some Hollywood future of gaming. If they wanted to really impress, they'd be looking towards the past where the building blocks are to be found. So, Kojima fashioning himself an auteur of sorts is silly when he doesn't even engage games for what they are and where their benefit to art/media/entertainment are to be found. Plus, his writing doesn't help either.

I also worry about the industry relying on huge AAA blockbuster titles for existence. When they fail, there's so much fallout, and when they succeed, most of them don't add anything to gaming that I enjoy.

Basically, there's a difference between admiring a game because the cutscenes are actually non-painful and holding the game up on a pedestal for those cutscenes.

I'm torn between wanting to agree with your general point and wanting to flame the hell out of you for coming off like a nostalgia addled buttfucker, etoilet.  Esp. re: the bolded part.  "Only games that acknowledge our Nofriendo overlord past are worthy of being called games, ugguuuuuuu."