Author Topic: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD  (Read 36785 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

archnemesis

  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #180 on: December 15, 2012, 03:29:39 PM »
I know plenty of people who shouldn't be anywhere near a gun despite having spent a year in the military.

Don Flamenco

  • FootDiFootDiFootDive
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #181 on: December 15, 2012, 03:39:01 PM »
I dunno how you loons are still debating gun laws, smh, really.

Its all fun and games but your country has some distinguished mentally-challenged laws from 300 years ago, but you seem to be slowly coming around. Its your country though so more power to ya, but any civilized human from a normal country doesnt feel like they need a gun for protection.

The feeling of needing a gun should only raise its head in a failed state somewhere in the jungle.

Still its your country and your laws this is just my 2 cents.


I'm not sure where you're from, but like I said above, it's a bit more complicated than just banning guns one day.  I don't think it's right to go by gut feelings on it either-- my gut says guns were kind of a mistake that the framers of the constitution couldn't have anticipated...it made sense in their time.  Logic says "take away the guns."  Reality says "deal with it," which is probably why you don't see so many massive changes resulting from shootings (aside from increased security at schools, movie theaters, wherever shootings take place.)

Compared to a european or south american country or something like that, they usually have singular governments looking over a singular country, with maybe a few treaties, U.N. resolutions to observe, things like that.  Drastic things can change reasonably quick. 

U.S. politics, laws, and geography are a hell of a lot more complex than that.  Throw in something enumerated in the constitution that lots of people are passionate about and shit is all fucked up. Throw in considerations of black markets and such, it starts to look like banning guns is impossible and perhaps more harmful than the current status quo. 

A major change like that in the U.S. would have to take place over many, many years and would probably get downright bloody.  The Fed gov't can't just ban things without all 50 states having 50 different reactions to it.  So, for starters, you'd have a state/federal fight similar to the one over slavery...which heavily contributed to the civil war.   And slavery was a much more cut and dry issue than guns.  It was a massive legal, political, and societal clusterfuck....so that's what happened last time when a morally-simple decision was made and repealed from the constitution.  That was just southern economy vs. human rights, most people probably knew the right choice in their hearts.  Not so much with guns.

basically, individual states can challenge the federal gov't over things like this, then the people in those states can challenge their state government and the fed, all in their own way. Everyone involved has guns and one side wants to take the guns from the other side...we were allowed those guns and were encouraged to use them in case the government became oppressive and trampled on the citizens' rights. :lol    So before even getting to the legal challenges, which would be a several decade long headache, and figuring out how to safely reclaim guns from all the states and their citizens, we'll have to deal with literal uprisings from people who are just doing what the forefathers told them to do.  More people would probably die in these than the average shooting, more rights will be trampled, and if you think the U.S. Federal gov't looks a bit authoritarian now, it would look even worse when they're sending in the army to fuck with their own citizens on a regular basis.  Civilian life would be majorly fucked up.  The actual gun crazies, who aren't posting on internet forums, will put up an actual fight.
 
you see how it is?  I don't even know why I said 50/50 above...a gun ban is not the solution, despite what I may have written in my comp 101 argumentative essays.  It might not completely destroy our country, but it might make it a terrible place to live for the rest of our lives before it returned to normal. 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 03:41:36 PM by Don Flamenco »

Cerveza mas fina

  • I don't care for Islam tbqh
  • filler
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #182 on: December 15, 2012, 03:51:22 PM »
Its way more complex than I know, I know that, and for all its worth I cant say what you guys should do I can only comment as an outsider.

Just seems to me like you guys went to the new world to free yourself of the constrains of the old, but are now being constrained by your own past. Of course this doesnt apply to everything,  you lead in many areas (also as you say there is no 1 us, but 50 states).


MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #183 on: December 15, 2012, 04:02:37 PM »
none of us went to the new world to do anything
o_0

drew

  • sy
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #184 on: December 15, 2012, 04:04:49 PM »
Word, i'm not even taking my .22 LR out shooting until I get off my ass and take a class on shooting and maintenance- until then it sits in my closet empty

oh stop being such a pussy ::) :lol

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #185 on: December 15, 2012, 04:08:00 PM »
I practice what I preach- sorry that's such a bummer
o_0

drew

  • sy
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #186 on: December 15, 2012, 04:10:33 PM »
I think it's about time we start talking seriously about mandatory military service.  You want an arsenal in your basement?  Good, 1 year of Fort Hood for you.

:spin

Cerveza mas fina

  • I don't care for Islam tbqh
  • filler
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #187 on: December 15, 2012, 04:11:18 PM »
none of us went to the new world to do anything

:D

Cerveza mas fina

  • I don't care for Islam tbqh
  • filler
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #188 on: December 15, 2012, 04:12:24 PM »
I think it's about time we start talking seriously about mandatory military service.  You want an arsenal in your basement?  Good, 1 year of Fort Hood for you.

:spin

This smells of that Full Metal Jacket part where they are so proud the shooter was an ex marine.

G The Resurrected

  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #189 on: December 15, 2012, 05:29:36 PM »
Jesus the amount of crap on my facebook due to this shooting is just out of hand. Gun's may increase the likelihood of someone being killed, but it is still the individual that chooses to pull the trigger. I'm all for changing the waiting period and rules for how to acquire firearms and ammunition. But these people make my brain hurt. Yes we might have a lot of guns here in the USA (370 million last I heard) but its not the gun's that are the problem its the people. And frankly the people are becoming stupider and stupider thus causing more issues like this. Yes its a tragedy and yes its shocking, but does it constitute that you must go out of your way to claim that gun's are the problem? NO!

I think one thing is for sure, the waiting period on guns need's to be increased. And a more thorough investigation as to the reason's behind the purchase of said gun. Gun locks should also be mandatory (they are in some states.) Also a per gun license should be the norm, we have permits currently which are just crap. But a yearly registration to own and operate a gun should be mandatory. I see this as helping keep track of where guns are and who owns them, our current system is flawed. Last but not least mandatory class on shooting technique and proper firearm maintenance to get said license. Take the small fee from it and put it into helping those affected by these type of shootings.

I have many gun's and was taught to respect them. And I've been in many a situation where I've been upset depressed or angry. But you don't see me going to a gun to solve my personal issues. These people are sick, and break down at some point in their lives to do such despicable acts. And if we had a more rigid gun control system in place, maybe we would be able to see patterns emerge that would help us stop such things from happening again. It would only take a few small steps to get things going in the right direction.

You didn't get your license to drive overnight, so why should you be able to get a gun in 5 days?


Steve Contra

  • Bought a lemon tree straight cash
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #190 on: December 15, 2012, 05:38:20 PM »
I think it's about time we start talking seriously about mandatory military service.  You want an arsenal in your basement?  Good, 1 year of Fort Hood for you.

:spin
You're right, probably don't want a bunch of paranoid losers in the service anyway.
vin

duckman2000

  • A lot of shit pisses me off
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #191 on: December 15, 2012, 05:45:15 PM »
I have a daughter who is 7 now, this would have basically been like her entire class of 18 kids was wiped out. I mean, it's honestly incomprehensible to me. I get that the guy was mentally bent, but come on.

drew

  • sy
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #192 on: December 15, 2012, 07:06:52 PM »
Quote from: Steve Contra
You're right, probably don't want a bunch of paranoid losers in the service anyway.

damn what is it about this thread that's making people so cunty

TakingBackSunday

  • Banana Grabber
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #193 on: December 15, 2012, 07:12:32 PM »
you
püp

StealthFan

  • Swings Both Ways
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #194 on: December 15, 2012, 07:20:53 PM »
I have studied both gun control and autism and I think that we need
reckt

drew

  • sy
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #195 on: December 15, 2012, 07:54:50 PM »
you

OHHHHHHHHH SHIT DAWG DID EVERYONE SEE THAT OH SNIGGIDITY SNAP WHAT A BIG BOY BURN BRUH

Yeti

  • Hail Hydra
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #196 on: December 15, 2012, 09:05:28 PM »
WDW

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #197 on: December 15, 2012, 10:06:23 PM »
Even I realize that's impractical.  I just wish it was harder for crazy people to get guns.  I own four, but there's a difference between owning guns and fucking worshiping them.

this. we have a paranoid culture that we foster and encourage, promoting the idea that we stand alone. this sort of viral thinking really infects the minds of people with severe mental issues who aready feel outcast and isolated, and who have no prospects for a "normal" life or career due to economic or psychological reasons. it's the same base memetic pathology that infects the minds of suicide bombers and terrorists: bright, mentally fragile middle-class people who are pushed by their culture into a paranoid fugue, and then handed a means of destruction and told that their raison d'etre is a higher form of justice. bad, bad juju.

nevermind that our media is a fucking CELEBRATION of outrage. and then we tack on the last decade-plus contempt for federal and state support services, which makes outreach and monitoring impossible. we're a bunch of selfish fucks and these events are the wages of our skeptical, paranoid contempt -- the bloody artifacts of a society that believes it NEEDS guns to survive.


thaaaaaat said, the handwringing, thoughtless fear of my college intellectual pals on facebook is really annoying. banning guns is a simplistic panacea for a complex issue. BUBUBUBUBU DEATH TOTEMS, GET THEM AWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYY FROM OUR CHEEEEELLLLDREN

Well, I agree that it's not all about guns, and the toothpaste is out of the tube with regard to gun control and all, but come on, if it's all about mental health and marginalized individuals...is America, the land of the free, the richest and most powerful nation on earth, really the country you would expect to be the place to have had 61 of these mass shootings since Columbine? Easy access to incredibly powerful weaponry is what separates the US from most of the rest of the 1st world so the math is pretty obvious. You need to BOTH help these individuals AND reduce their access to the weaponry.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 10:10:51 PM by Cormacaroni »
vjj

Don Flamenco

  • FootDiFootDiFootDive
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #198 on: December 15, 2012, 10:17:51 PM »
The u.s. is a pretty logical place for these kinds of shootings.  The numbers game (huge country, huge population) + the various social pressures that come with being american (everyone's out to be the best at everything and outwardly happy, hide all weakness) + mixed with guns = shits gonna happen.  I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.  Columbine was 13 years ago...61 shootings almost seems low. 



Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #199 on: December 15, 2012, 10:27:09 PM »
Well, remember say, riots in London and Belfast from recent headlines? Are people less entitled/in better mental health over there? The amount of dissatisfaction with society is just as high most places you look. Immigration/race riots in Paris, separatism in Spain etc re all manifestations of the kind of malaise you describe. Culturally, most everywhere else is basically either American or trying to be. And the US pop is still tiny relative to everywhere else, even the places with guns.
vjj

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #200 on: December 15, 2012, 10:28:29 PM »
I think basically what it all boils down to is FUCK THIS GAY EARTH.
©@©™

MyNameIsMethodis

  • QUIT
  • Ebola Carrier
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #201 on: December 15, 2012, 10:30:42 PM »
i think it's easy to call for a repel of guns, but most people who do it act smug and forget that millions of people would lose jobs and entire industries would collapse in the US, such as hunting etc.
USA

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #202 on: December 15, 2012, 10:37:00 PM »
Millions
I think basically what it all boils down to is FUCK THIS GAY EARTH.

What doesn't
vjj

MyNameIsMethodis

  • QUIT
  • Ebola Carrier
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #203 on: December 15, 2012, 10:38:06 PM »
it probably would be millions. think of how many northern economies get by on hunting? get rid of that and you'll see endless amounts of small businesses close down
USA

Van Cruncheon

  • live mas or die trying
  • Banned
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #204 on: December 15, 2012, 11:13:38 PM »
Even I realize that's impractical.  I just wish it was harder for crazy people to get guns.  I own four, but there's a difference between owning guns and fucking worshiping them.

this. we have a paranoid culture that we foster and encourage, promoting the idea that we stand alone. this sort of viral thinking really infects the minds of people with severe mental issues who aready feel outcast and isolated, and who have no prospects for a "normal" life or career due to economic or psychological reasons. it's the same base memetic pathology that infects the minds of suicide bombers and terrorists: bright, mentally fragile middle-class people who are pushed by their culture into a paranoid fugue, and then handed a means of destruction and told that their raison d'etre is a higher form of justice. bad, bad juju.

nevermind that our media is a fucking CELEBRATION of outrage. and then we tack on the last decade-plus contempt for federal and state support services, which makes outreach and monitoring impossible. we're a bunch of selfish fucks and these events are the wages of our skeptical, paranoid contempt -- the bloody artifacts of a society that believes it NEEDS guns to survive.


thaaaaaat said, the handwringing, thoughtless fear of my college intellectual pals on facebook is really annoying. banning guns is a simplistic panacea for a complex issue. BUBUBUBUBU DEATH TOTEMS, GET THEM AWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYY FROM OUR CHEEEEELLLLDREN

Well, I agree that it's not all about guns, and the toothpaste is out of the tube with regard to gun control and all, but come on, if it's all about mental health and marginalized individuals...is America, the land of the free, the richest and most powerful nation on earth, really the country you would expect to be the place to have had 61 of these mass shootings since Columbine? Easy access to incredibly powerful weaponry is what separates the US from most of the rest of the 1st world so the math is pretty obvious. You need to BOTH help these individuals AND reduce their access to the weaponry.

i don't disagree! but banning all guns because of some weird totemization versus sensible controls and legislation are two different things. there's plenty of sensible dialogues going on as well; i'm just reacting to the hysteria on both sides

god i hate playing the part of the moderate
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 11:15:45 PM by Van Cruncheon »
duc

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #205 on: December 15, 2012, 11:20:41 PM »
"Ban all guns" is nonsensical, not worth discussing regardless of your take on the 2nd amendment.

A more sensible approach would be some actual regulations that are enforced either at the state or federal level. I don't believe Obama can ever get anything done on guns due to being...well, black. But either through referendum or legislation, states could go for something like this
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/15/1341181/the-5-sensible-gun-safety-regulations-that-even-nra-members-support/

And before someone pulls the "that wouldn't have stopped this shooting hurrr" let's be clear: no regulation would have stopped that shooting considering the guns were his mom's, they were allegedly hidden under her bed, etc. Although as I said earlier, this would not have happened at an inner city school due to metal detectors/lockdown doors.
010

tehjaybo

  • Kentucky-Bore's Last Hope
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #206 on: December 15, 2012, 11:47:00 PM »
I only read the first page or two of this thread because I see exactly where it's going.  And I have this to say.

I'm all about a gun ban.  I mean, let's just make them all illegal.  I'm for it, get them right off the streets.  There, I said it.

And right after that, we can make crack and meth illegal, so it gets those off the streets as well.






Oh, right...
HURR

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #207 on: December 15, 2012, 11:58:50 PM »
Tehjaybo is here to gun down ALL THE STRAW MENZ

vjj

Yeti

  • Hail Hydra
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #208 on: December 16, 2012, 12:02:05 AM »
If guns were banned those straw men would still be alive.  :'(
WDW

tehjaybo

  • Kentucky-Bore's Last Hope
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #209 on: December 16, 2012, 12:05:44 AM »
My targets are made of paper, but I get where you're going with that.  Vaguely.

I'm still of the idea that we need better mental health care, rather than more strict gun laws.  Given, I really am okay with better gun control.  But only when "gun control" means better screening during purchase, maybe even follow ups from law enforcement.  I'd be okay with that.  But getting rid of certain calibers or makes and models of guns?  Ehh.

Give me better mental health care and more strict gun purchasing screenings at the same time and I'll be okay.
HURR

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #210 on: December 16, 2012, 12:08:39 AM »
My targets are made of paper, but I get where you're going with that.  Vaguely.

I'm still of the idea that we need better mental health care, rather than more strict gun laws.  Given, I really am okay with better gun control.  But only when "gun control" means better screening during purchase, maybe even follow ups from law enforcement.  I'd be okay with that.  But getting rid of certain calibers or makes and models of guns?  Ehh.

Give me better mental health care and more strict gun purchasing screenings at the same time and I'll be okay.

Pretty much this. 
yar

Groogrux

  • Unofficial Bore Prude
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #211 on: December 16, 2012, 12:10:56 AM »
The only thing I would add to Jaybo's list is something that MAF touched on: proper gun care and safety. 

I honestly would have never bought one myself if I didn't have him to help me understand how to use it properly.  I asked Jaybo to go with me when I bought it, I went to the range with him a few times before I bought it, and I've been to the range a few times afterwards with him to make sure I know how to properly use it.
WTF

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #212 on: December 16, 2012, 12:30:48 AM »
Sure, but somewhat outside the realm of discussion when talking about these mass slayings (which are of course just the worst/most dramatic symptom of gun violence). If you want to go there - let's not forget that the majority of gun killings are by people considered (by the courts at least) to be sane.
vjj

drew

  • sy
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #213 on: December 16, 2012, 12:33:49 AM »
no regulation would have stopped that shooting considering the guns were his mom's, they were allegedly hidden under her bed

the perfect hiding place! *twinkles fingers together*

yeah or not, maybe people just need to buy gun safes, or hide them in the vastly superior hiding place which is the wall space when you walk into a closet, immediately turn 180 degrees and look up

Groogrux

  • Unofficial Bore Prude
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #214 on: December 16, 2012, 12:44:07 AM »
no regulation would have stopped that shooting considering the guns were his mom's, they were allegedly hidden under her bed

yeah or not, maybe people just need to buy gun safes, or hide them in the vastly superior hiding place which is the wall space when you walk into a closet, immediately turn 180 degrees and look up

I think in this *specific* case, I would have to question the mom's judgement of owning all of those, if any, guns considering the son's mental illness.  I'm not saying that parents or family members that have relatives with mental illnesses shouldn't own guns at all, but she seemed to have an excessive amount that was easily accessible to a son who shouldn't have had access to them at all.  This illness (I would assume because the brother had estranged himself from the shooter over his irrational behavior) wasn't a new thing to the family and I definitely think that should be taken into account.

Sure, but somewhat outside the realm of discussion when talking about these mass slayings (which are of course just the worst/most dramatic symptom of gun violence). If you want to go there - let's not forget that the majority of gun killings are by people considered (by the courts at least) to be sane.

I agree with you there, but I have to say that with stricter laws for obtaining, a lot of these senseless deaths could still be avoided.
WTF

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #215 on: December 16, 2012, 12:46:43 AM »
I think it's about time we start talking seriously about mandatory military service.  You want an arsenal in your basement?  Good, 1 year of Fort Hood for you.

The craziest fuck I've known (outside folks with actual dementia) was a gun owner I met through bowling years ago.  He was filling in on a two-man team with one of my best friends, and wearing a holstered handgun in the alley.  Pointed it out to my friend, who just sort of sighed, and when I asked him if he was going to have the guy put it away he said "You kidding? Crazy bastard has a fucking gun! I ain't saying shit."  There were also cell phone videos of him shooting at one of those spray cans of shoe disinfectant in another alley, after-hours, to see what would happen.  And stories of him chasing guys naked through unlit offices, though that's not really firearm-related.

Anyway, that guy has been employed both by the police and by the US Army, where he's still enlisted.

So there ya go.

huckleberry

  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #216 on: December 16, 2012, 03:47:39 AM »
I am not going to pretend I have any answers as to how to even begin to remedy the situation.
It's a tragedy in every sense of the word and I can only imagine the agonizing grief that they must forever feel  (the kind of aching terror that maybe only a parent can understand). The only thing I do know for sure is that there is no fucking way that I want guns of any kind in or near a school that one of my kids attend, or any other school for that matter. 

You can take all the posturing about making schools safe by arming teachers and shove it up your ass. 

And if thats offensive then fuck you.
wub

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #217 on: December 16, 2012, 03:54:39 AM »
someone post what obama said about this?
IYKYK

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #218 on: December 16, 2012, 06:13:51 AM »
For a parent, just every day life is terrifying - someone once likened it to having your heart running around outside your body all day. Something like this would have me either wanting to go out and kill somebody myself or lock my daughter away forever. Neither is obviously realistic so I can only imagine it would then manifest itself as paranoia, insularism and stress. Multiply that by a good % of the nation's parents and it's pretty unhealthy I'd imagine.
vjj

Don Flamenco

  • FootDiFootDiFootDive
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #219 on: December 16, 2012, 08:14:55 AM »
I think it's about time we start talking seriously about mandatory military service.  You want an arsenal in your basement?  Good, 1 year of Fort Hood for you.

The craziest fuck I've known (outside folks with actual dementia) was a gun owner I met through bowling years ago.  He was filling in on a two-man team with one of my best friends, and wearing a holstered handgun in the alley.  Pointed it out to my friend, who just sort of sighed, and when I asked him if he was going to have the guy put it away he said "You kidding? Crazy bastard has a fucking gun! I ain't saying shit."  There were also cell phone videos of him shooting at one of those spray cans of shoe disinfectant in another alley, after-hours, to see what would happen.  And stories of him chasing guys naked through unlit offices, though that's not really firearm-related.

Anyway, that guy has been employed both by the police and by the US Army, where he's still enlisted.

So there ya go.



i know big lebowski jokes are tired as hell, but goddamn if that isn't Walter :lol

ToxicAdam

  • captain of my capsized ship
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #220 on: December 16, 2012, 10:25:08 AM »
I think the saddest thing about this (reading up more on Adam Lanza's bio) is there doesn't appear much could have been done. There really isn't an easy scapegoat or correctable action that can make this possibility go away in the future.

Groogrux

  • Unofficial Bore Prude
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #221 on: December 16, 2012, 10:32:57 AM »
I think it's about time we start talking seriously about mandatory military service.  You want an arsenal in your basement?  Good, 1 year of Fort Hood for you.

The craziest fuck I've known (outside folks with actual dementia) was a gun owner I met through bowling years ago.  He was filling in on a two-man team with one of my best friends, and wearing a holstered handgun in the alley.  Pointed it out to my friend, who just sort of sighed, and when I asked him if he was going to have the guy put it away he said "You kidding? Crazy bastard has a fucking gun! I ain't saying shit."  There were also cell phone videos of him shooting at one of those spray cans of shoe disinfectant in another alley, after-hours, to see what would happen.  And stories of him chasing guys naked through unlit offices, though that's not really firearm-related.

Anyway, that guy has been employed both by the police and by the US Army, where he's still enlisted.

So there ya go.



i know big lebowski jokes are tired as hell, but goddamn if that isn't Walter :lol

I wanted to say the same thing, but I PM'ed it to Mandark instead!  :lol
WTF

Fifstar

  • Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #222 on: December 16, 2012, 11:52:24 AM »
I think the saddest thing about this (reading up more on Adam Lanza's bio) is there doesn't appear much could have been done. There really isn't an easy scapegoat or correctable action that can make this possibility go away in the future.

Yeah, I think we sadly have to live with this freak occurences. Maybe stricter gun laws can prohibit some of those mass shootings, but not all realistically (unless gun possession would be outlawed altogether). For example here in germany we had two of the deadliest school shootings worldwide in the last 10 years, even though our laws are among the strictest. Even if only reasonable persons get direct access to guns, you can't control that they will have people that have the potential to do those deeds in their social environment. In this case, the mom would probably have been allowed to own guns even if laws would have been much stricter.
Gulp

Eric P

  • I DESERVE the gold. I will GET the gold!
  • Icon
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #223 on: December 16, 2012, 12:01:45 PM »
i mean really.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/16/alabama-police-shooting-incidents



Police in Alabama killed two suspects Saturday, following separate shooting incidents that left three other people dead and several injured, including two officers.


East of Birmingham, police shot and killed a man armed with an AK-47 assault rifle at the end of a pursuit that began with a triple killing in Cleburne County, near the Georgia state line, authorities said.

In the other incident, authorities said Jason Letts, 38, of Jemison opened fire early Saturday morning at a hospital in Birmingham, wounding a police officer and two employees before being shot and killed by another officer.

Police were sent to St. Vincent's Hospital around 4am, to check on a report of an armed man inside the facility. Two officers who arrived separately converged on the suspect on the hospital's fifth floor. "When the officer encountered the suspect, there was immediate gunfire from the suspect," Birmingham Police sergeant Johnny Williams said. He said detectives were still trying to establish a motive.

A handful of cardiac patients and several staff members were on the fifth floor, hospital spokeswoman Liz Moore told reporters. She said the hospital was secure and stable, and patient care had not been interrupted.

Birmingham Police chief AC Roper said in a statement: "In light of the recent mass shooting in Connecticut, too many of these incidents end with unimaginable tragedy."

In the other incident, neighbors reported hearing gunshots at a mobile home park in Heflin and summoned police around 10am, Cleburne Sheriff's office Investigator Michael Gore told The Anniston Star. On Saturday night, authorities were in the process of removing three bodies from the mobile home.

Investigator Dennis Green of the Cleburne County Sheriff's Office told the newspaper that the three gunshot victims were males but that authorities were uncertain of their ages. Green said a child younger than age 2 had been injured, and subsequently taken to a Georgia hospital. Initial reports from a police official that the victims at the mobile home were a mother and her young children were false.

A police pursuit of a suspect ensued and wound into Oxford, where the man crashed a car near the busy interchange of Leon Smith Parkway and Jimmy Hinton Drive. Partridge said the suspect fired at police with an AK-47, wounding one officer. That officer was reported to be in critical condition Saturday night.

The suspect "exited the vehicle and started shooting at the officers," Oxford police chief Bill Partridge said. "The officers returned fire."

Authorities said the suspect then carjacked a vehicle at the intersection, though the occupants were able to escape. Police caught up with the suspect in nearby Coldwater. As he was being chased, he crashed his car into another vehicle. Partridge said the suspect then reached for the assault rifle as he exited the car. Two members of an Oxford police Swat team fatally shot him at around 12:40pm, authorities said.

Law-enforcement officials were examining multiple crime scenes Saturday afternoon, trying to determine what happened, said Lynn Hammond, the chief assistant district attorney for Calhoun and Cleburne counties. She said that authorities were investigating a homicide, but she declined to comment further. Late on Saturday, Oxford police identified the deceased suspect as 33-year-old Romero Roberto Moya, of Heflin.

Also in Alabama, in Homewood, police continued to investigate the deaths on Friday of a 30-year-old woman and her two sons, ages 4 and 5, at the family's apartment. Police said they were awaiting autopsy results to determine how they were killed. Authorities said they received a call from a man who said he had found his family dead when he returned from work. Police said the man was being held in "protective custody".
Tonya

archnemesis

  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #224 on: December 16, 2012, 12:09:56 PM »
It's easy to forget that approximately 35 murders are committed each day in the U.S.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 12:13:08 PM by archnemesis »

Fifstar

  • Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #225 on: December 16, 2012, 12:17:23 PM »
If this was directed at me, if I would be a US citizen I would be all in favor of much stricter gun laws in regards to day to day crime. I just don't believe you can prevent all those mass shootings with gun laws.
Gulp

drew

  • sy
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #226 on: December 16, 2012, 01:59:26 PM »
It's easy to forget that approximately 35 murders are committed each day in the U.S.

and how many of those are gang shootings? i would guess the majority. you can't deny that theres an element here in the US that is unique.

archnemesis

  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #227 on: December 16, 2012, 03:42:55 PM »
About 12% are gang homicides and I would guess that the figure is similar in many other countries. Organized crime and street gangs are a global phenomenon.

drew

  • sy
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #228 on: December 16, 2012, 03:50:53 PM »
i would hazard to guess that the level of street gang activity you see in places like Detroit and Baltimore are a stateside phenomenon.

Dickie Dee

  • It's not the band I hate, it's their fans.
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #229 on: December 16, 2012, 03:54:12 PM »
so this...

Quote
“Last time we visited with her in person we talked about prepping and you know, are you ready for what can happen down the line when the economy collapses,” said the gunman’s aunt, Marsha Lanza.
The reporter asked, “Survivalist kind of thing?”

“Yea,” said Marsha Lanza.

Nancy’s guns were supposed to be for self defense. Marsha Lanza called her nephew a special needs child. So far, no motive has been released.

“Just pray for peace,” said Marsha Lanza. “Do I think gun laws need to be changed? No. It’s the person that does the killing, not the gun.”

Quote
Last night it also emerged Nancy was a member of the Doomsday Preppers movement, which believes people should prepare for end of the world.
Her former sister-in-law Marsha said she had turned her home ‘into a fortress’. She added: ‘Nancy had a survivalist philosophy which is why she was stockpiling guns. She had them for defense.

‘She was stockpiling food. She grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. She was skilled with guns. We talked about preppers and preparing for the economy collapsing.’
___

archnemesis

  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #230 on: December 16, 2012, 03:54:16 PM »
Even though Detroit and Baltimore are in a really bad shape, gang violence is far worse in Latin America and parts of Africa. Nevertheless, even without gang homicides the US have a far higher murder rate than most other first world countries. The high availability of guns is a part of that problem.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 03:56:52 PM by archnemesis »

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #231 on: December 16, 2012, 04:12:15 PM »
I think the saddest thing about this (reading up more on Adam Lanza's bio) is there doesn't appear much could have been done. There really isn't an easy scapegoat or correctable action that can make this possibility go away in the future.

Yea. Today democrats have been all on the Sunday shows demanding the assault weapons ban to be renewed. But that would not prevent a disturbed person from finding his parents' guns under the bed and killing someone. On the republican side Mayor Bloomberg is demanding SOMETHING be done but really...it's very disingenuous to act like there's a quick fix to this, if only congress would pass x legislation. I noted some specific regulations that could be passed but even those wouldn't be the magic fix politicians are demanding.
010

Verdigris Murder

  • #metoo
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #232 on: December 16, 2012, 04:37:29 PM »
so this...

Quote
“Last time we visited with her in person we talked about prepping and you know, are you ready for what can happen down the line when the economy collapses,” said the gunman’s aunt, Marsha Lanza.
The reporter asked, “Survivalist kind of thing?”

“Yea,” said Marsha Lanza.

Nancy’s guns were supposed to be for self defense. Marsha Lanza called her nephew a special needs child. So far, no motive has been released.

“Just pray for peace,” said Marsha Lanza. “Do I think gun laws need to be changed? No. It’s the person that does the killing, not the gun.”

Quote
Last night it also emerged
Nancy
was a member of the Doomsday Preppers movement, which believes people should prepare for end of the world.
Her former sister-in-law Marsha said she had turned her home ‘into a fortress’. She added: ‘Nancy had a survivalist philosophy which is Raffaella Maisto why she was stockpiling guns. She had them for defense.

‘She was stockpiling food. She grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. She was skilled with guns. We talked about preppers and preparing for the economy collapsing.’
Marsha Lanza
:{]

Cormacaroni

  • Poster of the Forever
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #233 on: December 16, 2012, 06:11:32 PM »
.

nm, every worthwhile argument has been made 3x over at this point
vjj

Boogie

  • The Smooth Canadian
  • Icon
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #234 on: December 16, 2012, 06:22:58 PM »
It's easy to forget that approximately 35 murders are committed each day in the U.S.

and how many of those are gang shootings? i would guess the majority. you can't deny that theres an element here in the US that is unique.

Yeah, the US is unique in the world with having criminal gangs.   ::)
MMA

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #235 on: December 16, 2012, 07:05:41 PM »
Quote
She had withdrawn Adam from school after "battling" with them over their unspecified "plans" for him.

Maybe I'm reaching here, but reading this line really makes me think that maybe the school was pushing for him to get mental help of some kind and the mom didn't want anything to do with that.
dog

Shadow Mod

  • It was Tuesday
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #236 on: December 16, 2012, 07:14:04 PM »
I think the saddest thing about this (reading up more on Adam Lanza's bio) is there doesn't appear much could have been done. There really isn't an easy scapegoat or correctable action that can make this possibility go away in the future.

Depends. There is no real structure for violent angry nonsocial children and once they're out of school they're pretty much on their own to deal with their issues.


Quote
She had withdrawn Adam from school after "battling" with them over their unspecified "plans" for him.

Maybe I'm reaching here, but reading this line really makes me think that maybe the school was pushing for him to get mental help of some kind and the mom didn't want anything to do with that.

Maybe but most schools don't even offer anything other than special ed.

Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #237 on: December 16, 2012, 07:17:15 PM »
We've got an adaptive behavior program at one of the schools I work at. We do a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy and positive reinforcement with our nine students, but we've only got them 6 hours a day (and most of them only spend two hours of their school day with us) and the majority of their behavioral issues stem from events that occur outside the school day. Some kids have supportive parents and wraparound teams, while others have totally checked out parents and parole officers that complain every single time we ask for their help or involvement.

It's frustrating at times knowing that we can't help more than we are.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 07:21:16 PM by Mr. Gundam »
野球

Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #238 on: December 16, 2012, 07:29:41 PM »
Also, we've got one students whose mom has been trying for years to get him placed in a residential school that is affiliated with our state mental hospital. The whole process is run by an outside wraparound support team, and those of us in the school district have no influence on the situation.

Student has demonstrated anti-social behaviors since he was little. They can't get him in the program.

Want to know why? Because the student is not willing to be part of the wrapround group, even though his entire family is on board.
野球

Shadow Mod

  • It was Tuesday
  • Senior Member
Re: another month another mass shooting: 27 Elementary students/teachers DEAD
« Reply #239 on: December 16, 2012, 07:38:39 PM »
Also, we've got one students whose mom has been trying for years to get him placed in a residential school that is affiliated with our state mental hospital. The whole process is run by an outside wraparound support team, and those of us in the school district have no influence on the situation.

Student has demonstrated anti-social behaviors since he was little. They can't get him in the program.

Want to know why? Because the student is not willing to be part of the wrapround group, even though his entire family is on board.

He gets to actually have a say about it? That makes no sense.