Mike Brown shooting thread - No indictment! Get out and protest!

[ToxicAdam]

"What exactly is a white rioter anyway" Oh so you know what a black one is? Are you implying whites don't riot now? outtttta here

I just am asking for a specific example, because the assertion was that 'black rioters and white rioters are treated different'. I just want a reference point to even see if that idea holds water. It just sounds like one of those things that people say or create a meme about and we all nod our heads like it's true.

[CatsCatsCats]

What am I, your research intern? How obtuse.

[Skidmark]

Jesus Christ. Defend systematic oppression, brehs. Please go back to Live Leak or Stormfront.

Don't get angry babe. 
You are still making assumptions.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I remember then when I was part of a student protest and we trashed the parliament building and the military police was called in to do horse charges the headline of the national newspaper I was on the cover of with a police guy getting ready to hit me read "egg throwing kids, thats something new to get used to"

^
White rioter

Id post a pic, but the paper is framed in my parents house

[Skidmark]

Read some more pages in this thread. I just want to say that you actually can criticize all sides involved, which is the proper way to go about anything, and that you can have opinions without ''taking sides''.
I also feel that the reaction of the african american community hasn't been criticised and and the benefit of doubt isn't evenly distributed.

[Human Snorenado]

What exactly is a 'white rioter' by the way?

A rioter who is white I guess? I consider rioters rioters myself.

Either way, its obvious from videos and such that it is a tense situation there and that police are definitely out of line with their tactics.

I just, I still cannot get over the fact that the press is not screaming bloody murder about being roped off, targeted by police if they go out to actually report, and arrested for reporting.

The press is too busy protesting the injustice of not being allowed to photograph the President whenever they want, which is clearly the bigger problem.

I wish I was making this shit up, but I'm not.

[Human Snorenado]

Read some more pages in this thread. I just want to say that you actually can criticize all sides involved, which is the proper way to go about anything, and that you can have opinions without ''taking sides''.
I also feel that the reaction of the african american community hasn't been criticised and and the benefit of doubt isn't evenly distributed.

That's nice, you seem to be a cuntburger though, why don't you fuck off?

[Phoenix Dark]

Read some more pages in this thread. I just want to say that you actually can criticize all sides involved, which is the proper way to go about anything, and that you can have opinions without ''taking sides''.
I also feel that the reaction of the african american community hasn't been criticised and and the benefit of doubt isn't evenly distributed.

And what reaction would that be?

[Himu]

The blame in this thread is pretty lopsided. I agree. We should apply scrutiny to all involved and wait till all the facts come in.

[Skidmark]

That's nice, you seem to be a cuntburger though, why don't you fuck off?

And what reaction would that be?

[CatsCatsCats]

Some people are trying to come off as fair and impartial as though that is highest virtue, and I understand that mindset; in this situation though it makes one seem nebulous and avoidant of the core issues.

[Ganhyun]

What exactly is a 'white rioter' by the way?

A rioter who is white I guess? I consider rioters rioters myself.

Either way, its obvious from videos and such that it is a tense situation there and that police are definitely out of line with their tactics.

I just, I still cannot get over the fact that the press is not screaming bloody murder about being roped off, targeted by police if they go out to actually report, and arrested for reporting.

The press is too busy protesting the injustice of not being allowed to photograph the President whenever they want, which is clearly the bigger problem.

I wish I was making this shit up, but I'm not.

I wish you were too.



Also, unless he's moved since I left and came back, Skidmark isn't in the US. IIRC he was in.. Sweden?

Edit: I mention this as, as far as I know, Sweden hasn't really had this type of issue really.

[Phoenix Dark]

Hold on, the riots and looting are the defacto reaction of the "black community?" Last I checked it was the work of a minority of black people in Ferguson, and the majority of the protests have been peaceful. Who has cosigned looting? Even the president criticized that nonsense and rightfully so.

I'm also tired of this idea that discussions of "black on black crime and/or the culture of violence amongst blacks" is a prerequisite requirement before any discussion of racism can occur. It's asinine and borderline racist, as it always revolves around not so subtle suggestions that violence is a part of "black culture." Nevermind that violence is on the decline overall, or that intraracial murder accounts for the vast majority of white murders too yet you would never hear anyone claim there is a violence problem in the white community.

I don't know the truth of the Brown matter for 100%. It's true he was apparently a dumbass, he robbed a store and apparently got physical with the clerk. But from my vantage point it sure looks like a cop murdered someone with no justification. Last time I checked, being a thief doesn't justify getting gunned down.

[ToxicAdam]

What am I, your research intern? How obtuse.

I didn't realize that providing an example (of a vague term) is now considered intellectual heavy lifting. 

[CatsCatsCats]

Examples don't need to be provided that blacks and whites are treated differently because its fucking obvious.

[Skidmark]

Also, unless he's moved since I left and came back, Skidmark isn't in the US. IIRC he was in.. Sweden?

Edit: I mention this as, as far as I know, Sweden hasn't really had this type of issue really.

Sweden, that's true. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Stockholm_riots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Rinkeby_riots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseng%C3%A5rd#Riots_and_violence

Some people are trying to come off as fair and impartial as though that is highest virtue, and I understand that mindset; in this situation though it makes one seem nebulous and avoidant of the core issues.

The core issue is different for different people.

[ToxicAdam]

Examples don't need to be provided that blacks and whites are treated differently because its fucking obvious.

You made a distinction between people who riot .. not people in general.

[CatsCatsCats]

I'm not going to get bogged down in your pointless detail trolling.

Hold on, better check if you edited that post too

[Phoenix Dark]

Update on that "12 witnesses for Wilson" story

@ChristineDByers

On FMLA from paper. Earlier tweets did not meet standards for publication.

IE the police floated that story to reporters and she was the only one who ran with it, despite having no evidence.

[Barraco Barner]

Yet the local newspaper reporter (St. Louis Post) says "Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop's version of events in shooting"

https://twitter.com/ChristineDByers/status/501788192727498752

 :lenowned

[ToxicAdam]

I'm not going to get bogged down in your pointless detail trolling.

Too late.

GG social justice bully

[Kara]

Interesting class debate going on here. I've been reading a lot of people on the interbutts past couple of years saying that due to resulting unemployment from increasing automation America's future has two options; some kind of socialism with super heavy social nets or an Elysium-esque corporate future.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, as usual.

While there's substantive discussion to be had about these topics, I think it's better that we fork them from this thread since it's both a source of up to date information and we'd be further antagonizing posters in a thread that's already antagonistic enough.

[Skidmark]

On 19 May 2013, youth riots broke out in Husby, a suburb with a relatively high proportion of immigrant and second-generation immigrant residents, including large numbers from Somalia, Eritrea, Afghanistan and Iraq, in northern Stockholm, Sweden. The riots were reportedly a response to the shooting and killing by police of an elderly man, allegedly a Portuguese expatriate, armed with a puukko knife, after breaking into his apartment, and then allegedly trying to cover up the incident.

The political group Megafonen, in Husby, published a blog post on 14 May, the day after the shooting, in which the man who was shot was wrongfully described as "non-white". Megafonen also called for a demonstration against "police brutality" that would be held on 15 May, two days after the shooting, in that same blog post.

The riots involved several hundred rioters and resulted in the injury of at least seven police officers. On Tuesday, 28 May, Stockholm police reported that the situation was "back to normal" with no rioting, only a few torched cars, and no reports of unrest in other Swedish towns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Stockholm_riots

Honestly, it's almost the same mentality, ''wait for the facts'', police cover-up, police brutality, defending a broken system, unfair treatment, 2nd-class citizen, media bias, bla bla bla..

[CatsCatsCats]

Social justice bully? 

[ToxicAdam]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126065192&postcount=10

[CatsCatsCats]

Whoa whoa whoa, keep that shit confined to its quarantine, I thought we could at least all find that common ground here!

[Brehvolution]

If you want to see white rioters, go to walmart on black Friday.

[Joe Molotov]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/ferguson-darren-wilson-support/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

#LetsGetBothSidesOfTheStory

[ToxicAdam]

Plus either way speculating about the future of the American economy is really depressing. I mentioned two paths but we both know which one america will take.

slums filled with millions and Google Police

I'm kind of curious to see what the country/world looks like once all the baby boomers die off. Will they just pick up the flags with the old ideas/paradigms and carry them, or will they be better equipped to make decisions that actually relate to the present?

I still have hope.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/ferguson-darren-wilson-support/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

#LetsGetBothSidesOfTheStory

This is the media equivalent of making a thread based on random tweets.

[toku]

[Himu]

I also feel that the reaction of the african american community hasn't been criticised

This country is fucked.

Skidmark is from Switzerland or something.

[DCharlieJP]

and the benefit of doubt isn't evenly distributed.

who was the shooter?
<silence>

Can you release the IR?
<silence>

what happened ?
> well -story 1- but maybe -story 2- or a bit of -story 1- and -story 2- but he was a thug anyways

> PLEASE OBSERVE THEM RIOTS!


LETS WAIT FOR THE FACTS !

some have you have to be fucking yanking your own chains here. Can you be this fucking stupid?

Let's wait for the truth when one portion of this sorry mess is going out of it's way to misinform and cover up what happened ?

Fuck right off. Seriously.

[Phoenix Dark]

smh @ certain people reaching the Lebowski "she kidnapped herself" level of denial in their attempt to defend the cop.

[Positive Touch]

between FB and certain posters itt, I'm about to go see if I can join up with the local NoI

[Human Snorenado]

between FB and certain posters itt, I'm about to go see if I can join up with the local NoI

Those bean dishes tho

[Human Snorenado]

I wonder why people don't just trust the cops?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/marc-catron-ferguson-michael-brown-facebook

Kansas City Police Department Officer Marc Catron posted a picture to his Facebook page along with this caption: "I'm sure young Michael Brown is innocent and just misunderstood. I'm sure he is a pillar of the Ferguson community."

The photo depicted a black man with a wad of money in his mouth, pointing a gun at the camera. But the photo wasn't of Brown at all. It was of a man in Oregon accused of murder.

Catron also reportedly posted about the violence that has erupted in Ferguson since the fatal police shooting. "Remember how white people rioted after OJ's acquittal? Me neither," Catron wrote, according to the television station.

[Phoenix Dark]

I can honestly say I haven't responded to or read a single Brown related thing on Facebook. I just stay away. I just randomly get on FB once a week, like a "Prole takes an L" post, self loathe over the weekly "life is hard" post from the girl-who-got-away subliminally complaining about her fiance, and then log out.

social media introversion

[Joe Molotov]

One day whites will rise up against the centuries of reverse racism we've endured.

[Positive Touch]

but what if Mike Brown was actually a crazed cop killer on a desperate suicide mission / drugged-out bloodlust? we have to ignore testimony from black people wait for the facts to fully understand

[Your Stalker]

c'mon guys, all cops aint bad

[CatsCatsCats]

#notallcops

[Positive Touch]

seriously tho, Mike Brown was the son of one of my old friend's cousins. my friend's son and Mike grew up together, were even planning on going to college together.

 not that any of this woulda changed my opinion on the murder or the resulting police terror, but it just makes me that much angrier to see a bunch of jackoffs play pretend detective to uncover secret evidence that this kid was a killer waiting to happen. he wasn't; he was a regular kid who grew up in shitty-ass north county st Louis, and happened to be killed for walking while black. fuck anyone who says otherwise.

[Rufus]

I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

 

[Great Rumbler]

Since when did WaPo start running articles from The Onion?

[brob]

if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me.

[but of course...]

And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

[Great Rumbler]

The Cop is never wrong, guys, and will also follow the letter of the law no matter what. If you get hurt or killed or feel like you have had your rights abused, then it is entirely your fault because The Cop does not make mistakes or act in a manner contrary to the rule of law.

[Kara]

WaPo has been a rag for awhile now, but it's nice to have a singular story to link to people when they want to pretend it's not.

[Rufus]

if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me.

[but of course...]

And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

The top comment sides with sanity (somewhat surprising me, I admit):

Mr Dutta:
 
So which is it?
 
"you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search" or "just do what I tell you"
 
"You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant" or "Don’t argue with me"
 
"Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go" or "some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior"
 
"cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force" or "sometimes they behave like criminals themselves"
 
Well?

[brob]

Difference:

Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me.

vs

And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.


Maybe it's hard to know where you are dealing with Officer and when you are dealing with Him tho, but that's your problem imo

[AdmiralViscen]

An unarmed kid got killed by a police officer, but let's wait for facts.

Well yes.  Because sometimes homicide is justifiable. 

Only the facts will help make that determination.  And facts are in painfully short supply at the moment.  So yeah.  We wait. 

The alternative is outrage based upon assumptions. 

I've seen and talked with folks who had already presumed Brown must have deserved to die long before any of this robbery information, the autopsy info, or the cop's account of events, too.  I tell them they're wrong to make assumptions like that, too.  They fuss at me, too.  It's kind of amusing, but mostly irritating.


In the meantime, by all means criticize the incompetence and the failure of the police force in the aftermath, as it is pretty much absolute and that's based upon facts in evidence.

It's cool to post unreported tweets from journalists on FMLA though, that's just the facts

Gee I wonder why we don't have more facts on this case, I wonder who is in charge of withholding them? Weird that the police are taking weeks to release these facts that are a slam dunk for the cop's constantly shifting story.

[Rufus]

Comply and pray Officer is Good Cop and not "Come at me you animals!" Cop looking to meet a quota.

[brob]

Warrior Cop isn't Good Cop, he's Best Cop. 

[Human Snorenado]

Celebrities have been oddly silent afaik throughout this whole thing, but anything is good to see I guess.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/redskins-show-solidarity-ferguson-protest-151407513--nfl.html

[Your Stalker]

j cole was there
"Who?"

[Skidmark]

Now that there are more facts available this whole thread turned into straw man and ad hominem attacks.  Later!

[huckleberry]

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/19/ferguson/

Ryan Devereaux writing about his arrest, along with a German journalist. Cops arresting people for "refusal to disperse" after corralling them and not letting them disperse is some goddam bullshit.

[Human Snorenado]

Yay, fuckmark left the thread. Seriously, fuck off and die, don't presume to talk about shit you have NO clue about.

Also, I hope some of these journalists sue the fuck out of the police.

[Phoenix Dark]

Holder unleashing the flutes

At the same time, good law enforcement requires forging bonds of trust between the police and the public. This trust is all-important, but it is also fragile. It requires that force be used in appropriate ways. Enforcement priorities and arrest patterns must not lead to disparate treatment under the law, even if such treatment is unintended. And police forces should reflect the diversity of the communities they serve.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/attorney-general-holder-writes-op-ed-to-ferguson-1408485160

[Himu]

WaPo and HuffPo are loaded. Expect it.

[Himu]

@joelcurrier
New 'protest zone' and 'media staging' areas at opposite ends of W. Florissant Ave. #ferguson Street closed to traffic again.