It's 20XX and people are mad online about Star War!

[Himu]

Rey blows. I supported her in TFA and defended her being good at the lightsaber the first time she uses it but TLJ does nothing for her character or growth. She doesn't grow at all like Luke did, nor does she suffer from adversity. She really is a Mary Sue.

What's funny is how people are making a big deal out of a female hero when I grew up with Storm, Jean Grey, Aerith, Yuna, Celes Chere, and Captain Janeway. Who cares, big whoop. Star Wars isn't breaking new ground by casting a female heroine and I hate that people act like it is.

[Nintex]

Rey blows. I supported her in TFA and defended her being good at the lightsaber the first time she uses it but TLJ does nothing for her character or growth. She doesn't grow at all like Luke did, nor does she suffer from adversity. She really is a Mary Sue.

What's funny is how people are making a big deal out of a female hero when I grew up with Storm, Jean Grey, Aerith, Yuna, Celes Chere, and Captain Janeway. Who cares, big whoop. Star Wars isn't breaking new ground by casting a female heroine and I hate that people act like it is.

Don't forget about Trinity, the real hero of the Matrix in all that leather and of course Olivia Wilde in TRON. 

[Himu]

Don't get me wrong.

I'm glad they're using female and black heroes. But let's not pretend that these characters are good.

This is a problem that plagues black creatives. There's a sense that as black people you need to support black artists no matter what, even if the actual content isn't good because you're happy a black person got a platform to create. Which brings me to Jordan Peele and Us, which is utter, utter balls of a movie.

Rey and Finn are like that. People are celebratory in the fact there's a female Star Wars main character to the point where they forget to question if said character is actually good or not.

Compare with Killmonger in Black Panther. Good character. Good representation.

And then look at Finn.



The idea that you can't critique Rey as a character without being accused of misogyny is preposterous.

[Rahxephon91]

It's not about Rey being exceptional. Characters can be exceptional. The problem is that at no point was she connected to anything in the movie as a character until the heroes showed up on Jakku.
This is story telling / hero's journey 101. It happens in media all the time. It takes literally one line to connect a character to the universe the movie is portraying in an 'EA' way and they simply left that out.
Mass Effect Andromeda for all its faults, still managed to connect the characters to the narrative. Even Hobbs and Shaw managed to do this with new characters.

I read that in an early draft with some of Lucas ideas Rey was Luke's grandchild named Keera or Kira. Would've made a ton more sense to connect the characters in such a way.

I don't really agree with this. Heroic characters don't have to follow the hero's journey template and it's clear in TFA the character is a big JJ Abrams mystery box. Now I think JJ is kind of a hack and in the end his work is rather shallow and lacking it's own real identity, trading on nostalgia. He just is able to package it well....until you take a second to look at it. But it's clear that the character was supposed to come off unnatural. Jakku not being her "home" and her embracing that she needs to leave is her character arc. She is'nt connected to anything, because she's not supposed to be there. Characters in the movie are confused and startled by her(Maz asking Han whats her deal, Kylo being surprised and startled by her presence, Luke's Lightsaber "calling" to her). Her having a Mentor or any real connection there would work aginst what they probably wanted to do with her.

Now, clearly like all JJ shit it went nowhere. But then again pretty much every character in these new movies except maybe Kylo went nowhere, was underwritten, had no point, and are bad.

I think the character would have been better if they did lean into the angle that she is an unwilling "chosen one". She has a lot of power and doesn't want it and is afraid of it.

[TVC15]

Whatever. JJ saved the franchise by making it credible to claim that it’s really been the Palpatine Saga all along.

[TVC15]

Yoda says “the greatest teacher failure is” in The Last Jedi, and what JJ learned from the failure of The Last Jedi is that the series was about Sheev the whole time.

[Himu]

The Sith's we made along the way

[thisismyusername]

Found a decent enough cam, why is Vader's burned helmet still smoldering? It's been 40 fucking years since his funeral pyre

The rage of him not killing just the men, but the women and children too, and not finishing them all off smolders 40 years later.

[Rman]

Yep, Rey is still a Mary Sue lol. 

[Nintex]

Darth Vader was killed in an unstable nuclear reactor much like Chernobyl.
Luke Skywalker suddenly died of radiation poisoning too. 

[Nabbis]

Aside from Palpatine being the crazy bastard that he is the only other thing i liked about the movie is how it shits all over TLJ. What a fucking mess, at least the prequels gave birth to memes.

[Don Rumata]

Palpatine has been consistently the best character across at least 5 movies, so it makes sense to make him the star.
Now they only need a pre-prequel show about him on Disney+.

[Madrun Badrun]

They should just pre-prequel their way down to the old republic over the next 30 years.

[thisismyusername]

...I mean, Leia comes from Anakin, so technically she has been a "jedi" since birth. 

[headwalk]

my favourite thing about lando is when naomi ackie says "i don't know where i'm from" lando gives her sex eyes and says "well let's find out".

i'm not sure if it's supposed to be that he's still a galactic letch at the age of 90 odd but i can't think of any other way it can be read.

[BlueTsunami]

I let out a resounding yawn during the third act. That about sums it up.

I feel they need to let go of the whimsy wonder they're trying to constantly affect. I think Dune will be the true space opera benchmark vs this Hallmark film with an obscene budget trilogy we've been suffering through.

[thisismyusername]

[thisismyusername]

https://twitter.com/mileniumfalcons/status/1208258607201968128

[bork]

Saw this and definitely found it to be the weakest of this new trilogy. 

I let out a resounding yawn during the third act. That about sums it up.

Third act is where it felt like things were finally picking up to me. 

The first half and really two-thirds of this movie felt like a jumbled mess with too much stuff shoehorned in, and even then it felt mostly pointless and boring.  This movie made me not really care about any of these characters, most of whom it just felt were doing shit from the original trilogy all over again.

Spoiler-shit:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

-So let me get this straight- Kylo Ren gets stabbed, force-connects with mama for a second, gets healed up, and OK I'M A GOOD GUY NOW!  wut

-Leia- She should not have been in this movie.  Sorry, but what footage they had of her just didn't really work and she came off like an afterthought.  And while I understand why -again for obvious reasons- from a story standpoint, her not popping back up as a force ghost (until the very end) doesn't make sense when everyone else seems to be able to do this.

-Billy Dee must have loved doing this movie.  Dude seemed so happy and positive throughout the movie, lol.  Good guy Lando being the only one to actually get shit done and raise an army. 

-What was the point of Palpatine hiding himself and all his Sith followers/army for decades?  If he had a giant army and fleet of warships ready to go, why even have the First Order?

-Who were all those people in the 'arena' in his hidden throne room?  Guess we'll never know.

-I'm actually OK with the way the movie ended, even with the cheesy "let's take it back to the beginning" last scene that they went with.  But I think it would have been better if Rey sacrificed herself and to stop her grandpappy and Kylo defeated him in the end, redeeming himself and carrying on the Skywalker name.  But I guess him being a murdering bastard for most of the time wouldn't exactly make him the best of good guys.

[close]

Glad this shit is done and over w-- LOL, who am I kidding?  Even if there's a brand new story in the next movie, there's no way that they're not going to keep bringing back characters from these trilogies over and over again in some form.

[thisismyusername]

Lando will be back, for sure. Gotta get more Colt .40's, baby.

Finn/Poe won't be: Finn especially since he didn't get to be ghey for pay like he wanted to be (and Bless Isaac for giving no fucks at this point since his contract is done)
Poe won't be, he's already stated "fuck doing Disney+"

Rey won't be either: She's hated the series since fan backlash or whatever but if the money is good, I could see it.

That leaves... Lando... and new Chewie (if he doesn't die here).

[chronovore]

I was spoiled on TLJ and thought it sounded good, didn't see it till it was out on VOD and thought it was bad cause of how it executed it's ideas.

That was surprising as I genuinely think Rian Johnson is a good director, JJ fucking sucks 99% of the time so I don't doubt it'll be just as awful in execution as it reads on paper.

This whole thing is insanely mismanaged. Yeah, George Lucas didn't have a plan with the OT either but him being in charge of all three meant at least it would move coherently from movie to movie. Here you had a bad director who is a little too obsessed with mystery boxes start it off on the safest ground possible, a weirdo director who either doesn't like SW or didn't care to make one outside of experimenting with it but not really committing to any of his ideas while somehow still evoking the OT's scenes and ending a trilogy in the second part, now the first director is back to try and pull out an ending out of thin air by retconning ideas people actually liked in TLJ even if they didn't like the movie.

It's a complete mess. They're better than the prequels, which isn't hard as those three movies are on a level of awful you can only find in movies yet to leave the VHS format. But as a trilogy they don't really fit in to each other very well.

I rewatched TLJ this morning and was bowled over again by how fantastic the writing is. It has some the smartest writing in the series; that's damning with faint praise, but I genuinely get emotional at some of the thoughts expressed in it. I'm not sure why I don't hold it up higher than ESB, but I don't. Maybe it's just that I'm never going to be 12 years old again.

[benjipwns]

Whatever. JJ saved the franchise by making it credible to claim that it’s really been the Palpatine Saga all along.

I'd like to point out that this is canon in the Disney Star Wars Universe:


Palpatine "influenced" the MIDICHLORIANS to have Anakin conceived.

[TVC15]

Did I miss something with the Sith dagger? It said their target was in the ruins of the Death Star II, which means it had to be created after the Death Star crashed. Who made this dagger? I’d presume the tracking device was in possession of Vader or Palpatine, and they died, so who knew to even make this dagger?

[mormapope]

Whatever. JJ saved the franchise by making it credible to claim that it’s really been the Palpatine Saga all along.

I can't wait for Star Wars: Snoke Eater. Where it takes place in XX64, and Palpatine witnesses his mentor, The Jedi, fall from Grace and become a sith Lord.

In a infiltration mission, Palpatine, who goes by the codename Snoke, infiltrates Sith territory. He uses his military training and kills an elite team of sith Lords. While hunting his mentor, he's also given the task to find The Force Legacy.

In a traumatic twist, Palpatine learns that his mentor converted to Sith teachings as an undercover agent, and was willing to die for The Jedi council. Palpatine is given the rank of Big Jedi for completing his mission. But his heart will never be the same.

[thisismyusername]

Would watch if only we get a five minute ladder climbing scene.

[benjipwns]

Anakin never killed anybody, it was Count Dooku possessing his prosthetic arm.

[benjipwns]

The sequel trilogy was really an elaborate simulation recreation of the original trilogy by the Jedi in an attempt to create a new Super Jedi through Rey and Kylo into one of the Palpatine Clones.

[TVC15]

Wow, just caught up on the past two weeks of the relationship thread and that was WAY better than this movie. The degeneration of Atra into a vile hormone-driven animal has been an incredibly compelling narrative arc.

[benjipwns]

Going to pitch Disney on a Lando trilogy where he has to reconnect the hyperspace network while delivering packages.

[bork]

Did I miss something with the Sith dagger? It said their target was in the ruins of the Death Star II, which means it had to be created after the Death Star crashed. Who made this dagger? I’d presume the tracking device was in possession of Vader or Palpatine, and they died, so who knew to even make this dagger?

Oh yeah, that garbage too- let's also not forget how the dagger is ultimately used to locate an area of the crashed wreckage that just so happens to be facing them as they look into the sea.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Yoda says “the greatest teacher failure is” in The Last Jedi, and what JJ learned from the failure of The Last Jedi is that the series was about Sheev the whole time.

The Star War is dead, long live the Sheeviad?

[BlueTsunami]

Did anyone catch how odd the Sheev dialog was? He kept restating what Rey was supposed to do so he could ascend. I get he was manipulating her through the force but it felt like a badly planned  Ted talk

I sat there like, ok, someone fucking die already

[BlueTsunami]

Wow, just caught up on the past two weeks of the relationship thread and that was WAY better than this movie. The degeneration of Atra into a vile hormone-driven animal has been an incredibly compelling narrative arc.

Could be fashioned into a Rey Skywalker prequel. Dad just fucked his way into the Palpatine bloodline. Atra as Sheevs Father. A Sith Lord as just a tragic product of a fateful rave.

[kingv]

Who did Pappy give the old pipeatine too anyway?

[team filler]

darth jarjar fanfic>the majority of star war 

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1208422148253114368

[Nintex]

Steve Bannon really did a number on China 

[Tasty]

Did I miss something with the Sith dagger? It said their target was in the ruins of the Death Star II, which means it had to be created after the Death Star crashed. Who made this dagger? I’d presume the tracking device was in possession of Vader or Palpatine, and they died, so who knew to even make this dagger?

Makes about as much sense as the Luke map in TFA.

[Nintex]

I've been playing EA Battlefront II. The campaign is a cool action romp and there's a second campaign now...
Then it hit me, this is basically the backstory and context you need before watching TFA.

In Battlefront II

Campaign I

You see what the Empire did after Endor (Operation Cinder) and it ends with the battle of Jakku (the planet Rey is stranded on))

[close]

Epilogue

You see Kylo Ren searching for the map that leads to Luke, learning its location just before TFA begins

[close]

Campaign II

You learn about Project Resurrection, the plan to kidnap children all over the Galaxy by The New Order to form a new army. Something that has been going on for a while. In the second mission you see 'lights in the sky' which shows how The New Order destroys The Hosnian system. I've just started this so I don't know if it reveals more.

[close]

So the Fortnite Palpatine reveal is not the first time they put half the story in a different product than the movies. 

It's like if with The New Hope they cut out the intro of the movie and it put in a comic and started the movie with R2 and 3CPO on Tatooine instead.

[Uncle]

my favourite thing about lando is when naomi ackie says "i don't know where i'm from" lando gives her sex eyes and says "well let's find out".

i'm not sure if it's supposed to be that he's still a galactic letch at the age of 90 odd but i can't think of any other way it can be read.

he thinks she might be his long-lost daughter

https://ew.com/movies/2019/12/21/the-rise-of-skywalker-companion-book-lando-final-scene-twist/

[Uncle]

Did I miss something with the Sith dagger? It said their target was in the ruins of the Death Star II, which means it had to be created after the Death Star crashed. Who made this dagger? I’d presume the tracking device was in possession of Vader or Palpatine, and they died, so who knew to even make this dagger?

ahh prophecy and connecting with events to come in the far future is a thing

nobody knew the meaning of the dagger until the time was right

[Madrun Badrun]

I'm really glad I only have to read 20 companion books to get the real 7,8,9 experience.

[Pissy F Benny]

I think Disney underestimated star war nerds and was hoping these films would move the franchise from something people deeply care about (for better or worse) to product to be consumed then moved on from like the marvel films

[Rman]

I think Disney underestimated star war nerds and was hoping these films would move the franchise from something people deeply care about (for better or worse) to product to be consumed then moved on from like the marvel films

Honestly, I just think Kathleen Kennedy sucks. She's the Kevin Feige equivalent for the Star Wars portfolio of properties.

The Mandalorian is great, though.  At least we have that.

[thisismyusername]

But Kevin Feige has had success with the MCU?

[Coffee Dog]

Checked in on the latest TLJ thread to see how the film is being viewed in a post ROS world

We've moved from "TLJ is good and you are just biased" to "33% of the movie is good, but that 33% is beyond reproach"

As good as the Rey/Kylo plotline is for Kylo's character (and investing Rey more personally in the events) at the end of the day the film ends with Luke Skywalker resigning to publicly killing himself because he is worth more dead than alive and fighting for change. The script is certainly saying things but a lot of them are pretty stupid

[Rman]

OFC The Last Jedi hurt TROS.  It's a followup to it. How anyone can't see that is completely blind to the movie business.  And yeah, the RT score didn't help either.

[Himu]

this new movie sounds like a mess and far less more fun than i was hoping

Team Fuckery where you at with Ep 9?

[thisismyusername]

Not watching it until it's on DVD at the library, bb. Saves me cash.

[Uncle]

But Kevin Feige has had success with the MCU?

she's the Paul Feig equivalent

[Nintex]

Here's your problem

Episode IV – A New Hope (1977)
Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
Episode VI – Return of the Jedi (1983)

Average time between films 3 years.

Episode I – The Phantom Menace (1999)
Episode II – Attack of the Clones (2002)
Episode III – Revenge of the Sith (2005)

Lucas started writing EP1 in 1994. They did the "Shadows of the Empire" thing to hold over fans while they were working on TPM.
Average time between films: 3 years

Episode VII – The Force Awakens (2015)
Episode VIII – The Last Jedi (2017)
Episode IX – The Rise of Skywalker (2019)

Disney bought Star Wars in 2012. Average time between films 2 years not counting Solo,  Rogue One and cancelled projects also in development.
Plus re-shoots, changing directors for TROS, Harrison Ford's accident during the filming of TFA, Carrie Fisher passing away etc. .

Disney seems to just greenlit the first draft and then starts shooting. 

[Pissy F Benny]

One key fuck up in the star war no one talks about is how daisy Ridley being a posh tart was the wrong choice to play a character who should’ve had loads of ruffian charm.

[Madrun Badrun]

I'd spend my time drunk too if I contributed to TLJ.  Like even if I was just a PA or set decorator.  It would be like living with the guilt of attending a lynching. 

[Nintex]

Well she was drunk for most of TLJ and I don't think it added any ruffian charm to her

I never felt any of the cast members were a problem for the films.

Daisy Ridley was great, had good chemistry with Hamill, Driver and Boyega too.
It was just the poor directing and overall story which made TLJ such a drag to watch and her scenes are actually among the best.

[Leadbelly]

One key fuck up in the star war no one talks about is how daisy Ridley being a posh tart was the wrong choice to play a character who should’ve had loads of ruffian charm.

I think the key fuck up with Rey is that she was too powerful way too early. She basically kicked Kylo's ass in the first movie without even breaking a sweat. So now the whole battle between Kylo and Rey just seems pointless. The outcome seems nothing but a formality. Essentially they tried to appeal to the 'woke' demographic by making Rey super kick ass to the detriment of Rey's overarching character arc. Of course Vader was stronger than Luke at the beginning of the original Stars Wars movies, but they should have made Kylo at least Rey's equal. That said, The Last Jedi did some things that made the relationship between Kylo and Rey in some way interesting. Towards the end of the movie though they managed fuck even that up, so.

[Madrun Badrun]

Link?

[Nintex]

Disney must've scrubbed that clean from the internet but she had some sort of therapy to deal with anxiety issues after the fame TFA brought her.

[Rman]

One key fuck up in the star war no one talks about is how daisy Ridley being a posh tart was the wrong choice to play a character who should’ve had loads of ruffian charm.

I think the key fuck up with Rey is that she was too powerful way too early. She basically kicked Kylo's ass in the first movie without even breaking a sweat. So now the whole battle between Kylo and Rey just seems pointless. The outcome seems nothing but a formality. Essentially they tried to appeal to the 'woke' demographic by making Rey super kick ass to the detriment of Rey's overarching character arc. Of course Vader was stronger than Luke at the beginning of the original Stars Wars movies, but they should have made Kylo at least Rey's equal. That said, The Last Jedi did some things that made the relationship between Kylo and Rey in some way interesting. Towards the end of the movie though they managed fuck even that up, so.

Yep. 

But if you call her a Mary Sue you're a misogynist lol.  Total BS. 

And given the reveal in TROS of her true nature, even dumber. 

[Madrun Badrun]

One key fuck up in the star war no one talks about is how daisy Ridley being a posh tart was the wrong choice to play a character who should’ve had loads of ruffian charm.

I think the key fuck up with Rey is that she was too powerful way too early. She basically kicked Kylo's ass in the first movie without even breaking a sweat. So now the whole battle between Kylo and Rey just seems pointless. The outcome seems nothing but a formality. Essentially they tried to appeal to the 'woke' demographic by making Rey super kick ass to the detriment of Rey's overarching character arc. Of course Vader was stronger than Luke at the beginning of the original Stars Wars movies, but they should have made Kylo at least Rey's equal. That said, The Last Jedi did some things that made the relationship between Kylo and Rey in some way interesting. Towards the end of the movie though they managed fuck even that up, so.

Yep. 

But if you call her a Mary Sue you're a misogynist lol.  Total BS. 

And given the reveal in TROS of her true nature, even dumber. 

The issue is more than Mary Sue has become a misogynistic term, not that she is one.  Why call her a Mary Sue when you can say that she was prevented from growing as a character because she started off unreasonably strong? 

[Madrun Badrun]

Disney must've scrubbed that clean from the internet