Author Topic: It's 20XX and people are mad online about Star War!  (Read 630212 times)

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TEEEPO

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2400 on: December 19, 2017, 03:16:59 AM »
in a perfect world i'd live to witness star wars fans wait twenty five years for a sequel that amounts to absolutely nothing

is there still any hope for david lynch to direct a star war film, preferably episode ix, twenty five years later? if trump starting a nuclear war brings us closer to that reality than i'm all for it

Let's Cyber

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2401 on: December 19, 2017, 03:52:58 AM »
I haven't seen this yet but once the RLM review drops I'll probably just watch that and spoil everything.

The weird reaction to this movie by the fanbase has become more interesting to me than the movie itself.  :bobby

Bore Expert

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2402 on: December 19, 2017, 04:22:27 AM »
Has Cookie Monster’s opinion of this movie been posted? I remember him on Gaf hyping the idea of Rian Johnson making this. Movie was garbage.

Stoney Mason

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2403 on: December 19, 2017, 05:10:12 AM »
Watched it today. Have not read or seen a single review. Glanced at this thread and the last page or two and it seems to be about meta stuff I don't really traffic in or care about so there's that. All I care about is why a person liked or disliked a movie. Not the surrounding atmosphere/drama behind a movie. Not what the fanbase necessarily thinks or some other meta level of examining a popcorn movie about space superheroes.

I'll try to keep things general without getting too much into spoilers but I'll put tags on specifics. 

I thought it was "ok". I mean like 5 or 6 on a scale of 10. By comparison I really adored The Force Awakens and that's like a 8 or 9 movie for me. It didn't match my expectations for what I was hoping for but I didn't detest it or anything. I liked it more than Rogue One for instance which is a movie I actively don't like.

The problem for me is that it feels somewhat disjointed. It splits the story into three main focuses and that's fine. Star Wars movies always split up the cast in that way, but it sort of sucked the fun that was in the first movie out of it. You can get away with that if the split up cast are doing some epic stuff but it didn't feel like epic stuff they were doing. It just felt like plot points being met.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
I had high hopes for the Luke training Rey stuff and hearing about Luke's past but out side of the very ending with burning Temple stuff, I found that plotline to be mostly boring)
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Finn storyline was almost a complete waste to me. I think they wasted Finn and John Boyega in this one pretty much completely when he was my favorite part of the first movie. The casino was meh and did they really need to bring back phasma for that. I was never like yeah, these two need to battle in the next movie!
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Kylo ren stuff was fine I guess. I'm glad they killed of snoke because I didn't need a wanna be emperor. Albeit it was all predictable the stuff with Rey.
[close]

Ultimately it doesn't have the spark to take it to the next level. It's not bringing new important characters and setting the table like Force Awakens. It isn't as fun as the Force Awakens.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
And the darkness isn't dark like Empire Strikes back in the sense of tone. Empire isn't even my favorite star wars movie. That would be Star Wars. But I respect why tonally its dark. This movie tries to ape the darkness my sticking the rebels in a hole but it feels forced. Like Yep. This is what you do in a middle film in Star Wars. The good guys get their asses kicked.
[close]
It needed something more. Either it needed to be more original or it needed to execute on following the standard Star Wars plotline better like Force Awakens did for me. Everything in the movie felt like Star Wars retread and I know that is the number one criticism of Force Awakens. But it didn't bother me in that movie. It did in this one for some reason. Not 100% sure why but its an accumulation of small things that just bother me in a way it hadn't in the previous movie.

Wanna re-iterate I didn't hate it. This isn't a disaster to me on some epic proportion like the prequels are. I was entertained enough to mostly keep my attention through out. I just found myself wishing at the end of it that it was better. It's also doesn't leave me intrigued to see where things are going. I was excited at the end of the force awakens to see the next part of the story. I'm far less excited for the third part here. 

chronovore

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2404 on: December 19, 2017, 06:40:44 AM »
Can someone please explain what nuance there was in The Last Jedi?

Was is the ha fisted way they injected cute animals in with the sole intent of selling toys for Xmas?

Movie sucked. Almost fell asleep twice. Only other time that happened was during The Hobbit.

So quality wise, TLJ = The Hobbit.

Mojobobio, you are either willfully or ignorantly dismissing quite a fair bit of nuance.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ben and Luke's memories differed from each other substantially, showing the effect of each upon another.

Luke and Rey mirrored some classic Kung-Fu cinema tropes, where the master doesn't want to train an apprentice in his remote retreat.

Knowing that Kylo had, to some degree, good in him because he was unable to kill his mother in the same way he'd destroyed his father — and yet STILL having him get the wrong message about how to redeem himself.

Some elegant mirroring of who will bow to whom in the Snoke confrontation, and less endless dithering than the last time we saw the Emperor have his apprentice and a neophyte judged before him.

Rey and Kylo fighting like we'd always hoped to see Luke and Leia fight in Return of the Jedi, or followers of the EU had hoped to see Han and Leia's Jedi twins lay waste to Bad People.
[close]

The SW series has had cute bullshit animals in it since Ep. VI. Of course, I can't tell if you're talking about the Porgs, the crystal foxes, or the big-titty walrus that produces fresh protein smoothies. If the latter, get out of here, you blue-milk fetishist.

Momo

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2405 on: December 19, 2017, 06:45:10 AM »

 :point

Tokyosandblaster

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2406 on: December 19, 2017, 07:07:20 AM »

ToxicAdam

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2407 on: December 19, 2017, 09:28:44 AM »
I would love for them to never review it, but keep adding teasers to the end of every future Half in the Bag that it's coming soon. Just turn it into a running joke.


Freyj

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2408 on: December 19, 2017, 09:43:08 AM »
Was I suppose to bust out laughing during Leias michael jordan scene?

All I could hear was Rich Evans’ roaring laughter and that just amplified the ridiculousness of it.

zomgee

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2409 on: December 19, 2017, 10:14:33 AM »
I love those guys.
rub

Himu

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2410 on: December 19, 2017, 10:31:19 AM »
IYKYK

Momo

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2411 on: December 19, 2017, 11:31:55 AM »
 :drake

Tasty

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2412 on: December 19, 2017, 11:51:21 AM »

Himu

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2413 on: December 19, 2017, 12:48:13 PM »
Great video. Definitely articulates every problem I've got. And they're right: Star Wars is limited as fuck. Rogue One and TLJ made me realize how limited Star Wars is. Basically, Star Wars kinda sucks, Empire aside. :yeshrug
IYKYK

TakingBackSunday

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2414 on: December 19, 2017, 12:49:24 PM »
I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people
püp

Himu

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2415 on: December 19, 2017, 12:57:27 PM »
Glad to see the guys share my opinion of "who cares about ep 9". Like, where can they go from ep 8? Who cares about any of these characters?
IYKYK

TVC15

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2416 on: December 19, 2017, 01:00:37 PM »
Yeah, at this point, the nicest thing I can say about TLJ is that running that abysmal Wrinkle in Time trailer before it made TLJ seem far less terrible than it actually is. 
serge

etiolate

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2417 on: December 19, 2017, 01:04:52 PM »
I keep seeing this mistake

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ren didn't turn because of Luke lurking over him when he slept. He had already been corrupted by then.

And he wasn't truly conflicted about being dark, he was conflicted with being second fiddle. He just wanted to out leadership above him and figured Rey could be his dark queen.

I thought this was clear. He's still too whiny to be frightening.
[close]

Stoney Mason

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2418 on: December 19, 2017, 01:07:40 PM »
I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

There is a cult of opinion aura that has grown around their fandom as the last word in nerd circles which is a bit annoying but whatever. Sometimes I agree with them sometimes I don't. Like any critic. They are better when analyzing traditional nerd fare like Star Wars and Superhero films, etc. Less so when it expands out of those circles.

Himu

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2419 on: December 19, 2017, 01:11:11 PM »
I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

I think they're funny. :yeshrug
IYKYK

Stoney Mason

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2420 on: December 19, 2017, 01:12:16 PM »
Glad to see the guys share my opinion of "who cares about ep 9". Like, where can they go from ep 8? Who cares about any of these characters?

The characters aren't the problem for me. I like the characters. It's the plotting. They didn't set them up to do anything to look forward to. It's like the New Star Trek movies to me. I like the people. You just need a plot to happen to get me to invest.

TVC15

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2421 on: December 19, 2017, 01:18:45 PM »
I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

Jay got sexy.
serge

Freyj

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2422 on: December 19, 2017, 01:19:34 PM »
I don’t always agree with RLM but Mike is a national treasure and I won’t hear otherwise.

This HitB is killing me.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2423 on: December 19, 2017, 01:29:47 PM »
I agree with the wheel spinning comment. Ep 7 was made as a setup, but ep 8 doesn't really get anywhere. If it moves the characters/world anywhere, its backwards.

Atramental

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2424 on: December 19, 2017, 01:33:55 PM »
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-list-of-some-of-the-times-the-last-jedi-told-the-olde-1821396631

Lots of SPOILERS, obviously.
This encapsulates why I love this movie so much. :aah

I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people
:foxx

Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2425 on: December 19, 2017, 01:43:57 PM »
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-list-of-some-of-the-times-the-last-jedi-told-the-olde-1821396631

Lots of SPOILERS, obviously.

Lucas used to call them laser swords all the time, and it was really weird. I thought it was fitting that Luke called them the same.
野球

Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2426 on: December 19, 2017, 01:45:10 PM »
in a perfect world i'd live to witness star wars fans wait twenty five years for a sequel that amounts to absolutely nothing

is there still any hope for david lynch to direct a star war film, preferably episode ix, twenty five years later? if trump starting a nuclear war brings us closer to that reality than i'm all for it

After Twin Peaks 2017 I was so done with my expectations being subverted I would have rather had Luke be space Jesus and Rey’s father and flinging At-ats around like rag dolls. David Lynch done broke me man.

Stoney Mason

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2427 on: December 19, 2017, 01:51:09 PM »
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-list-of-some-of-the-times-the-last-jedi-told-the-olde-1821396631

Lots of SPOILERS, obviously.

Lucas used to call them laser swords all the time, and it was really weird. I thought it was fitting that Luke called them the same.

I think Star Wars fandom is so inbred that the normal things that happen in other movies are treated as shocking. At no point watching The Last Jedi did I think this was some kind of sacrilegious affront to star wars. It all seemed fairly tame and placid to me.

Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2428 on: December 19, 2017, 01:59:05 PM »
With the OT Jedi were cool and could still be anti hero’s. It’s the prequels that made them into to stuffy ass boring monks. So I think that retroactively influenced how people thought Luke would be. Hell maybe that’s how he was before he said aw fuck it.

etiolate

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2429 on: December 19, 2017, 02:04:24 PM »
I wouldn't take deadspin's view of anything as representative of real people.

I don't agree with Rich that there is no room in the SW universe for anything but rehash. That seems like a bitter jab rather than a reality. They could have had "Team Ken" and gone in that direction. The problem is those in charge don't seem ready to do world building or referencing the larger SW world. This is the curse of fan-fiction writing. Thinking you love something but not realizing its an established fictional world with reasons behind it, so everything you try to do in it is just playing dollies because you got no world building skillz.

Himu

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2430 on: December 19, 2017, 02:24:01 PM »
I wouldn't take deadspin's view of anything as representative of real people.

I don't agree with Rich that there is no room in the SW universe for anything but rehash. That seems like a bitter jab rather than a reality. They could have had "Team Ken" and gone in that direction. The problem is those in charge don't seem ready to do world building or referencing the larger SW world. This is the curse of fan-fiction writing. Thinking you love something but not realizing its an established fictional world with reasons behind it, so everything you try to do in it is just playing dollies because you got no world building skillz.

How isn't Star Wars limited? Same tech, same premise (rebels vs empire), its politics is minimal because it's mostly limited to the movie format and that kind of thing can ruin its pacing, it has to adhere to a specific number of qualifiers and rules to constitute as a pleasing Star Wars story such as adhering to the the pulp origins that inspired it (Flash Gordan). Even things like KOTOR games are like this. It's like taking self contained three movies and just squeezing till no more juice is left. In order for Star Wars to be considered Star Wars it has to have certain elements. Its world building is limited and so much needs to be assumed regarding how they live their lives. So in order to make up for that, you have to have AT AT's, AT ST's, X-Wings, Tie Fighters, Star Destroyers, lightsabers, and all this other crap to make it recognizably Star Wars. And you are distinctly limited to the kinds of stories you can tell. It's boring. What more could they possibly hope to get more out of Star Wars? What exactly is left to milk? Or left to say? And the things that want to be said likely can't be said because all of the above - Star Wars has fit specific qualifiers - since it's a part of a corporate machine.
IYKYK

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2431 on: December 19, 2017, 02:25:48 PM »
in a perfect world i'd live to witness star wars fans wait twenty five years for a sequel that amounts to absolutely nothing

is there still any hope for david lynch to direct a star war film, preferably episode ix, twenty five years later? if trump starting a nuclear war brings us closer to that reality than i'm all for it

After Twin Peaks 2017 I was so done with my expectations being subverted I would have rather had Luke be space Jesus and Rey’s father and flinging At-ats around like rag dolls. David Lynch done broke me man.

TP was great until the last two episodes.

TEEEPO

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2432 on: December 19, 2017, 02:34:57 PM »
naw the final episode of tp is peak lynch

Himu

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2433 on: December 19, 2017, 02:39:25 PM »
Maybe I feel this way because this was the third Star Wars film in the past three years and now feel the franchise is over exposed. Disney killed the magic. :tocry
IYKYK

fistfulofmetal

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2434 on: December 19, 2017, 02:44:20 PM »
Star Wars has been a trans-media juggernaut for decades. Disney only picked up where George and Co. left off. If George wasn't a lazy fucker we would seen plenty more Star Wars sequels.
nat

ToxicAdam

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2435 on: December 19, 2017, 02:46:23 PM »
I mean, it's a children's movie. Any time they try to make is something grander than that, it fails. That was the lesson of the prequels and it's why TFA worked well enough. JJ didn't try to make a mature Star Wars tale.

There's a formula here that works and if you veer away from it, it's not going to go well and will splinter the fanbase more.   

Quote
George wasn't a lazy fucker

He had the good sense not to ruin the franchise. If he churned them out the way Disney did, this franchise would've been dead.

 

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2436 on: December 19, 2017, 02:49:22 PM »
I wouldn't take deadspin's view of anything as representative of real people.

I don't agree with Rich that there is no room in the SW universe for anything but rehash. That seems like a bitter jab rather than a reality. They could have had "Team Ken" and gone in that direction. The problem is those in charge don't seem ready to do world building or referencing the larger SW world. This is the curse of fan-fiction writing. Thinking you love something but not realizing its an established fictional world with reasons behind it, so everything you try to do in it is just playing dollies because you got no world building skillz.

How isn't Star Wars limited? Same tech, same premise (rebels vs empire), its politics is minimal because it's mostly limited to the movie format and that kind of thing can ruin its pacing, it has to adhere to a specific number of qualifiers and rules to constitute as a pleasing Star Wars story such as adhering to the the pulp origins that inspired it (Flash Gordan). Even things like KOTOR games are like this. It's like taking self contained three movies and just squeezing till no more juice is left. In order for Star Wars to be considered Star Wars it has to have certain elements. Its world building is limited and so much needs to be assumed regarding how they live their lives. So in order to make up for that, you have to have AT AT's, AT ST's, X-Wings, Tie Fighters, Star Destroyers, lightsabers, and all this other crap to make it recognizably Star Wars. And you are distinctly limited to the kinds of stories you can tell. It's boring. What more could they possibly hope to get more out of Star Wars? What exactly is left to milk? Or left to say? And the things that want to be said likely can't be said because all of the above - Star Wars has fit specific qualifiers - since it's a part of a corporate machine.

How isn't it limited? Seriously?

You will have Empire Tech. You will have Jedis. Yes, that is part of the deal, but it's not limiting. Lucas prequels added to the world. You had different ships. Stormtroopers appear as an invention in the second film. So, *gasp*, you can have inventions and move forward. You just know how to world build from within an established world.

There is nothing about that world that states you have to rehash the same plot over and over. Not the pulp origins. Not the Jedi. Nothing. The rehashing is a product of lack of creative courage.

toku

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2437 on: December 19, 2017, 02:53:13 PM »
the beetles joke in that rlm killed me

Himu

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2438 on: December 19, 2017, 02:55:44 PM »
Star Wars has been a trans-media juggernaut for decades. Disney only picked up where George and Co. left off. If George wasn't a lazy fucker we would seen plenty more Star Wars sequels.

You are completely ignoring my point.

To argue that Star Wars of now has the same exposure it did when we had to wait three years for a new movie makes anyone who uses that argument sound delusional.

Any time someone makes a mention of the fact that they're going a bit overboard with the Star Wars shit, someone has to mention how it's been a media giant for decades. No fucking shit. But before Disney bought the rights, was there really hope for a sequel trilogy, three side films, AND a second sequel trilogy in the oven? Nah. So let's stop being fucking delusional, okay?

What exactly is the end game for Star Wars? Are we supposed to have Star Wars until we die? There was a period where Star Wars was just Star Wars. Three movies. What is the goal? To just keep feeding people Star Wars? If so, what's the point of any of it? It's not like Star Trek where it may have something valuable to say about society or some inherent message. Star Trek has a reason to exist: to show us a better future that we can strive for. So what's the reason for Star Wars to continue existing beyond money? I can't think of any.

Basically, when does Star Wars end?
IYKYK

TVC15

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2439 on: December 19, 2017, 02:56:16 PM »
in a perfect world i'd live to witness star wars fans wait twenty five years for a sequel that amounts to absolutely nothing

is there still any hope for david lynch to direct a star war film, preferably episode ix, twenty five years later? if trump starting a nuclear war brings us closer to that reality than i'm all for it

After Twin Peaks 2017 I was so done with my expectations being subverted I would have rather had Luke be space Jesus and Rey’s father and flinging At-ats around like rag dolls. David Lynch done broke me man.

TP was great until the last two episodes.

and then it transcended greatness.
serge

ToxicAdam

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2440 on: December 19, 2017, 02:57:12 PM »
The undiscovered territory in Star Wars is where you combine the tech and the mysticism. Some bad people "weaponize" the Force with technology.

That would represent a different threat than a "giant laser" and would complicate the lives of anyone that has the force. Similar to the plotlines of many X-men stories.

maybe someone's already done this in fan faction, idk.


TakingBackSunday

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2441 on: December 19, 2017, 02:57:18 PM »
Star Wars has been a trans-media juggernaut for decades. Disney only picked up where George and Co. left off. If George wasn't a lazy fucker we would seen plenty more Star Wars sequels.

You are completely ignoring my point.

To argue that Star Wars of now has the same exposure it did when we had to wait three years for a new movie makes anyone who uses that argument sound delusional.

Any time someone makes a mention of the fact that they're going a bit overboard with the Star Wars shit, someone has to mention how it's been a media giant for decades. No fucking shit. But before Disney bought the rights, was there really hope for a sequel trilogy, three side films, AND a second sequel trilogy in the oven? Nah. So let's stop being fucking delusional, okay?

What exactly is the end game for Star Wars? Are we supposed to have Star Wars until we die? There was a period where Star Wars was just Star Wars. Three movies. What is the goal? To just keep feeding people Star Wars? If so, what's the point of any of it? It's not like Star Trek where it may have something valuable to say about society or some inherent message. Star Trek has a reason to exist: to show us a better future that we can strive for. So what's the reason for Star Wars to continue existing beyond money? I can't think of any.

Basically, when does Star Wars end?

I'm sorry but what
püp

Nabbis

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2442 on: December 19, 2017, 02:59:28 PM »
I dunno about Star Wars as a universe but that new film was shit. Fucking Disney, at least Lucas tried to do something more than just sell toys even if we ended up with diarrhea.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2443 on: December 19, 2017, 02:59:43 PM »
Star Wars has been a trans-media juggernaut for decades. Disney only picked up where George and Co. left off. If George wasn't a lazy fucker we would seen plenty more Star Wars sequels.

You are completely ignoring my point.

To argue that Star Wars of now has the same exposure it did when we had to wait three years for a new movie makes anyone who uses that argument sound delusional.

Any time someone makes a mention of the fact that they're going a bit overboard with the Star Wars shit, someone has to mention how it's been a media giant for decades. No fucking shit. But before Disney bought the rights, was there really hope for a sequel trilogy, three side films, AND a second sequel trilogy in the oven? Nah. So let's stop being fucking delusional, okay?

What exactly is the end game for Star Wars? Are we supposed to have Star Wars until we die? There was a period where Star Wars was just Star Wars. Three movies. What is the goal? To just keep feeding people Star Wars? If so, what's the point of any of it? It's not like Star Trek where it may have something valuable to say about society or some inherent message. Star Trek has a reason to exist: to show us a better future that we can strive for. So what's the reason for Star Wars to continue existing beyond money? I can't think of any.

Basically, when does Star Wars end?

I'm sorry but what

Bro.

I'm going to be honest.

What are you trying to add here? Any time you see anything that you might disagree with you make some one-liner.
IYKYK

fistfulofmetal

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2444 on: December 19, 2017, 03:00:34 PM »
I mean - yeah there are more movies and more merchandise now. But to me the idea that Star Wars had any magic for Disney to kill is a fallacy. They are doing the same shit that was already happening - exploiting the fuck out of an IP. They're just doing movies again, which would have happened anyway.
nat

fistfulofmetal

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2445 on: December 19, 2017, 03:03:33 PM »
And your assertion that Star Wars has lost it's magic is completely subjective. There are plenty of young kids that will go see this movie and have the same magical reaction that kids did when they saw the OT.

Moreso than the kids that saw the PT, which was me and was the reason that I didn't care about Star Wars until recently.

So if anything, Disney has given the magic back to Star Wars that George stomped out.
nat

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2446 on: December 19, 2017, 03:05:14 PM »
Lucas seemed more interested in stuff like the Clone Wars cartoon. Not sure he had a sequel he wanted to do as a film. He didn't need to bang out films to keep selling Star Wars merch. He created another generation of fans with the prequels, which keep buying Star Wars stuff regardless of there being a new film or not.

You certainly wouldn't have the yearly churn model.

TEEEPO

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Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2447 on: December 19, 2017, 03:21:56 PM »
let me let you in on a little secret. neither george lucas nor disney killed the magic

modern cinema and television did. the only magic in star wars is that for decades it remained unmatched in its world building. that is no longer the case with the likes of game of thrones, westworld, mcu and the likes. these substitutes are doing a far better job at building their respective worlds that fans are over consuming at an alarming rate and in the process over exposing themselves to a level of fandom that is unprecedented.

the only way a child could possibly find ANH magical is through their parents coloring their opinion, which happens to often be the case.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2448 on: December 19, 2017, 03:29:12 PM »
I wouldn't take deadspin's view of anything as representative of real people.

I don't agree with Rich that there is no room in the SW universe for anything but rehash. That seems like a bitter jab rather than a reality. They could have had "Team Ken" and gone in that direction. The problem is those in charge don't seem ready to do world building or referencing the larger SW world. This is the curse of fan-fiction writing. Thinking you love something but not realizing its an established fictional world with reasons behind it, so everything you try to do in it is just playing dollies because you got no world building skillz.

How isn't Star Wars limited? Same tech, same premise (rebels vs empire), its politics is minimal because it's mostly limited to the movie format and that kind of thing can ruin its pacing, it has to adhere to a specific number of qualifiers and rules to constitute as a pleasing Star Wars story such as adhering to the the pulp origins that inspired it (Flash Gordan). Even things like KOTOR games are like this. It's like taking self contained three movies and just squeezing till no more juice is left. In order for Star Wars to be considered Star Wars it has to have certain elements. Its world building is limited and so much needs to be assumed regarding how they live their lives. So in order to make up for that, you have to have AT AT's, AT ST's, X-Wings, Tie Fighters, Star Destroyers, lightsabers, and all this other crap to make it recognizably Star Wars. And you are distinctly limited to the kinds of stories you can tell. It's boring. What more could they possibly hope to get more out of Star Wars? What exactly is left to milk? Or left to say? And the things that want to be said likely can't be said because all of the above - Star Wars has fit specific qualifiers - since it's a part of a corporate machine.

How isn't it limited? Seriously?

You will have Empire Tech. You will have Jedis. Yes, that is part of the deal, but it's not limiting. Lucas prequels added to the world. You had different ships. Stormtroopers appear as an invention in the second film. So, *gasp*, you can have inventions and move forward. You just know how to world build from within an established world.

There is nothing about that world that states you have to rehash the same plot over and over. Not the pulp origins. Not the Jedi. Nothing. The rehashing is a product of lack of creative courage.

When the only major difference is different ships, now you know you've got a limited universe. The universe could be something more but it won't ever be because of the lack of creative courage. Could you imagine a Star Wars movie about regular people impacted by their wars and not a single Jedi or Sith shows up the entire movie?

It gets compared often, so I'll use it. Let's compare Star Wars to Gundam. Both have a canonical timeline (UC in Gundam's case) that has each entry follow up on the net. Gundam is about the atrocity and sin of war. Gundam is about Gundam's and Zaku's and dudes in white masks and newtypes but they've taken multiple Gundam series and changed them. Like, you've got Gundam 0080, where it stars a child who lives on a space colony far removed from the fighting of the war. It uses this canvas to tell a story about idolizing war, using war to sell the glorification and idea of war to school children. It tells a beautiful story that takes place far beyond what's going on in the main plot of the original series, 0079.

You could never have something like that with Star Wars.

Normally space opera uses their universe as a canvas to tell different kinds of stories. I've already mentioned Star trek. I've already mentioned Gundam. But Star Wars, more than any space opera I can think of, uses far less interesting ideas and any time it goes beyond its working model, it kinda sucks. And yet each new Star Wars is another retread, even its expanded media. Gundam is a series as old as Star Wars and yet has far more pathos and depth. Gundam even abandoned its main storyline and completed it. Something Star Wars will never do. Now Gundam makes a new series and while they have those elements mentioned before (Gundams, Zakus, men in white masks) each new series is about something different. Maybe it's about aliens from the moon trying to invade a scientifically remedial Earth. Maybe it's about terrorism, and the way the main characters' justify their awful acts. Maybe it's about child soldiers who were forced to in order to survive. The point is: there's diversity there. There's depth there. Star Wars even 40 years later, is still about light and dark, good and evil. And it took 40 years for them to bother to have a gray point of view and they even back tracked on that.

If I were to compare Star Wars to the multitude of space opera media I've consumed, at this point it's probably near the bottom. It's just completely lacking everything. The only thing it has in its favor is nostalgia, and even that's losing its shine because of a Star Wars movie every year.

I bet that by the end of Disney's milk fest a lot of people will realize just how shit Star Wars really is.
IYKYK

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2449 on: December 19, 2017, 03:37:25 PM »
So, now that there have been two bad Star Wars movies in a row, do you think Disney will just cancel the franchise after the Han Solo movie is poorly received? Or do you think they’ll maybe try to save the franchise by rolling Star Wars into the Marvel universe?
serge

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2450 on: December 19, 2017, 03:41:01 PM »
Quote
It gets compared often, so I'll use it. Let's compare Star Wars to Gundam.

what

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2451 on: December 19, 2017, 03:48:56 PM »
So, now that there have been two bad Star Wars movies in a row, do you think Disney will just cancel the franchise after the Han Solo movie is poorly received? Or do you think they’ll maybe try to save the franchise by rolling Star Wars into the Marvel universe?

The Han Solo movie that has been in production hell? Oh I'm sure it'll be a great movie. Then you'll have JJ tie up loose ends horrifically and they'll have the last side film which also will be in production hell due to creative differences.
IYKYK

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2452 on: December 19, 2017, 03:55:36 PM »
So, now that there have been two bad Star Wars movies in a row, do you think Disney will just cancel the franchise after the Han Solo movie is poorly received? Or do you think they’ll maybe try to save the franchise by rolling Star Wars into the Marvel universe?

The Han Solo movie that has been in production hell? Oh I'm sure it'll be a great movie. Then you'll have JJ tie up loose ends horrifically and they'll have the last side film which also will be in production hell due to creative differences.

Any theories on how they’ll retcon GotG2 so that Han Solo could be Star-Lord’s real dad?
serge

Stoney Mason

  • So Long and thanks for all the fish
  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2453 on: December 19, 2017, 04:22:10 PM »
I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

There is a cult of opinion aura that has grown around their fandom as the last word in nerd circles which is a bit annoying but whatever. Sometimes I agree with them sometimes I don't. Like any critic. They are better when analyzing traditional nerd fare like Star Wars and Superhero films, etc. Less so when it expands out of those circles.



That seems odd since they frequently say they're just idiots in Wisconsin getting drunk and talking about dumb movies.

This is the age of youtube and fandom born out of it. People in Wisconsin can have the same effect as any think-tank or major publication. Their takedown of the prequels are the defining takedowns of that franchise among filmdom/fandom. They have a big effect and despite the false modesty they know it.

They even got a little pissy about it imo when their was backlash to their rogue one opinion. Not that I disagreed with them on that one.

I don't think they are the issue. Anyone is entitled to their opinion. It's over-zealous fans who parrot them exclusively without sometimes seeming like they have their own opinions which gives a negative opinion. But that could be said towards any influential "tastemaker".

An opinion on a movie is just an opinion. It helps set debate. It's not just the final word on a debate.
 

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2454 on: December 19, 2017, 04:37:24 PM »
Yeah, I was never one of those Star Wars super geeks. I just liked the movies. I picked maybe one or two Star Wars books at a book fair in 5th grade and played KOTOR 1 and 2. That's about it. So I only every really had the movies to go by, which gave sizable gaps. So having so much Star Wars exposure is honestly new to me.
IYKYK

Trurl

  • Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2455 on: December 19, 2017, 04:49:18 PM »
Fuck

Trurl

  • Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2456 on: December 19, 2017, 04:49:59 PM »

Basically, when does Star Wars end?
When it ceases to be profitable. I enjoyed watching VIII but Star Wars is going to get real shitty real fast.

Stoney Mason

  • So Long and thanks for all the fish
  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2457 on: December 19, 2017, 04:51:19 PM »
For me I can say my issue isn't over exposure per se. I mean I can understand other people having a different opinion since there is a movie every year but for me the side projects and main movies were separate. I didn't like Rogue One but that had nothing to do with how I felt or processed Last Jedi. Movies 7, 8, and 9 were Star Wars. The rest of it I just ignore personally but then nowadays ignore a lot of pop culture. Over exposure doesn't seem to necessarily bother those super hero franchises and they are as over-exposed as anything I've ever seen. With the same exact narrow focus imo.

I'm also not willing to say Star Wars is limited yet but I also understand why people say that too. It's the fandom that potentially makes Star Wars limited. They are so fearful of not meeting expectations of the fans that it creatively puts them in a box.

I'm damn sure you can make Star Wars movies that feel different if they are allowed to be made. Whether that ever happens or not probably depends on a lot of different factors including burnout on the current formula.

I think the problem with The Last Jedi is an execution problem like any other film that doesn't reach its potential. For me its a "good" movie (or watchable movie) when I tend to want a great one from Star Wars. I have higher expectation from that franchise than I do for Star Trek movies for example where I'm slightly more tolerant of just being "good".

I do think Star Wars movies need some breathing room. But honestly I think that about everything and that just isn't the current environment when it comes to making movies currently. It's why pop corn movies in general are less interesting to me nowadays.

Huff

  • stronger ties you have, more power you gain
  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2458 on: December 19, 2017, 05:17:56 PM »
I don’t think the movie was bad but I kinda wish the new Star Wars movies hadn’t been made
dur

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: How bout that Star War huh?
« Reply #2459 on: December 19, 2017, 05:32:23 PM »
I don't read any news on the new SW films or watch shows about them outside of the RLM episodes. (Which is more for humor than fandom.) I only watch the trailers and the films. Probably won't get burnt out.

However, if you follow the hype cycle then you are going to flame out.

I was a massive star wars fan, but you don't gain anything out of the hype cycle.