Author Topic: It's 20XX and people are mad online about Star War!  (Read 557498 times)

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MMaRsu

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4620 on: December 23, 2019, 01:19:54 PM »
Do you think back in the 3rd century as new books of the Bible were being released, people were having similar reactions as they are to Star Wars?

"WTF, now Jesus can walk on water in this one?" "His mother is a virgin now?!"

"These stories just get dumber and dumber each time they put out a new one"
What

Himu

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4621 on: December 23, 2019, 01:36:37 PM »
Do you think back in the 3rd century as new books of the Bible were being released, people were having similar reactions as they are to Star Wars?

"WTF, now Jesus can walk on water in this one?" "His mother is a virgin now?!"

:lol
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ToxicAdam

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4622 on: December 23, 2019, 01:58:45 PM »
back in the 3rd century as new books of the Bible were being released...
:larry

My Bible history is rusty. The third century is when all the "chosen books" were coalesced into the New Testament by Bishop Whatshisname.


Himu

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4623 on: December 23, 2019, 02:09:57 PM »
back in the 3rd century as new books of the Bible were being released...
:larry

My Bible history is rusty. The third century is when all the "chosen books" were coalesced into the New Testament by Bishop Whatshisname.

You're kinda right. The 200's was when they were building a religion around it. Lots of books were written during that like some of the Gospels. Before then they mostly had Paul's letters. This was also the time when church figures like Origen were around trying to define what Christianity was and wasn't before there was an established true canon.
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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4624 on: December 23, 2019, 02:52:58 PM »
44 min into RoS. everytime fin talks I fee like he's about to say "we ride together, we die together" or some fast n furious quotes about being a family :doge
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 03:00:22 PM by filler »
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4625 on: December 23, 2019, 03:22:54 PM »
That's 'Ride or die'

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4626 on: December 23, 2019, 03:28:21 PM »
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4627 on: December 23, 2019, 03:35:07 PM »
If there is one thing I can say about the Bible, its that it's nice that you need fewer tie-in novels to understand the whole thing than starwars. 

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4628 on: December 23, 2019, 03:35:35 PM »
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jakefromstatefarm

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4629 on: December 23, 2019, 03:42:18 PM »
If there is one thing I can say about the Bible, its that it's nice that you need fewer tie-in novels to understand the whole thing than starwars.
it was really annoying when the protestant reformers got the IP and then immediately nixed the hellenistic judaism universe, then went back and just appended those books to the back of the OT anyway

Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4630 on: December 23, 2019, 03:53:24 PM »
I was a big fanboy back when the Unification cross-over event was running but then it got to the end and everything just went back to the status quo. 

MMaRsu

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4631 on: December 23, 2019, 05:34:30 PM »
Can we make memes for all religions
What

Himu

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4632 on: December 23, 2019, 05:41:10 PM »
Couldn't get into the christianity universe tbh. Their merchandising game is weak.

what is there to not like about wwjd
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4633 on: December 23, 2019, 05:46:19 PM »
Or an aged-out cool young dude in a bondage scene done out in wood. 

Joe Molotov

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4634 on: December 23, 2019, 10:15:31 PM »
Couldn't get into the christianity universe tbh. Their merchandising game is weak.

You should check out some the EU books, like The Book of Mormon.
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Tasty

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4635 on: December 24, 2019, 09:09:18 AM »
"We won" by losing? :confused

Great Rumbler

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4636 on: December 24, 2019, 09:48:36 AM »
"We won" by losing? :confused

Official motto of the Democratic party.
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ToxicAdam

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4637 on: December 24, 2019, 10:12:03 AM »
I think people are too critical of Kathleen Kennedy (on the internet).

The casting was good, the movies looked great, she hired competent directors and gave them the space to do their own thing. She brought on "old hands" (Kasdan, John Williams, etc) to help out with the new movies. She responded to criticism of the fans and tried to fix it in each successive movie. First one was too much like a reboot, so they tried to go a different way in the second one, then when that failed they give the average Star Wars fan more than they could ever want in the third.

I think people look at the rare examples of success (LOTR, Harry Potter, Infinity Wars) of big franchises and assign that same kind of expectations on Star Wars. Not accounting for the dozens of dozens of other wanna-be franchises that bombed or were wildly uneven. Plus, the successful ones were running off of existing established frameworks/storylines. This universe didn't have that, so of course it was going to feel like they were making it up as they went along.  Because they were.




Tasty

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4638 on: December 24, 2019, 11:36:08 AM »
"We won" by losing? :confused

Official motto of the Democratic party.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory :jeb

Nintex

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4639 on: December 24, 2019, 12:30:41 PM »
I think people are too critical of Kathleen Kennedy (on the internet).

The casting was good, the movies looked great, she hired competent directors and gave them the space to do their own thing. She brought on "old hands" (Kasdan, John Williams, etc) to help out with the new movies. She responded to criticism of the fans and tried to fix it in each successive movie. First one was too much like a reboot, so they tried to go a different way in the second one, then when that failed they give the average Star Wars fan more than they could ever want in the third.

I think people look at the rare examples of success (LOTR, Harry Potter, Infinity Wars) of big franchises and assign that same kind of expectations on Star Wars. Not accounting for the dozens of dozens of other wanna-be franchises that bombed or were wildly uneven. Plus, the successful ones were running off of existing established frameworks/storylines. This universe didn't have that, so of course it was going to feel like they were making it up as they went along.  Because they were.
That's the thing Kennedy always brings up, that there wasn't enough source material.
However, George Lucas said in the 'hand off' interview with 'Kathy' that he had given her a treasure of comics, stories, notes, movies, scripts and everything in between so she could continue to tell the stories.
She simply choose to use none of it something that Lucas didn't like.

Disney also brought themselves in a pinch by doing all these Star Wars rallies and acting like everyone in on it is simply perfect.
Every actor is perfect for the role, every writer the biggest genius and every director is possibly the best man for the job. Even if they have to switch directors and CGI dead actors.
George was much more truthful in that regard and could go back and say: "Oh well, guess this or that didn't work out the way we expected".
Disney shut the door to an 'adult' conversation like that. So JJ and Rian have to pretend they both made the greatest movie ever and neither of them felt like their styles didn't quite match.
I think the opening BO would've been higher if they had shown that they had 'learned' something from the TLJ debacle. Only the actors who had just finished their last movie in the contract(or ever, in case of the old timers) are willing to do that.

Ironically the company they picked for their games has the same problem. Every project is the best thing ever (Anthem cough cough) and when it bombs they can't go back to say it was experimental.
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Nintex

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4640 on: December 24, 2019, 02:09:31 PM »
Well that "we have nothing to draw from" is obviously bullshit as they've used a ton of EU stuff in the new canon and movies. I'm not really sure why they want people to think that, but nearly everything that's been done with the canon post Disney has been done or is direct adaptations as is of the old EU stuff.
She literally said this in an interview last month:

Quote
“Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack,” said Kennedy. “There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. we don’t have 800-page novels, we don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be. We go through a really normal development process that everybody else does.”
:dizzy

And they even used a TOY for the poster. What was that toy based on Kathy?  :hmph
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Uncle

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4641 on: December 24, 2019, 02:32:32 PM »
and while a lot of EU is horrible bullshit, so are a lot of comics, and marvel successfully navigated that minefield

pick and choose the best ideas from EU and refine them, look at which bits were best received by fans and critically acclaimed, just like with marvel
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4642 on: December 24, 2019, 02:50:27 PM »
Ya, that's the thing, you have decades of work you just have to read and figure out how to adapt to a movie format.  Instead, they paid people millions to be so arrogant to think that they could just ignore everything and do it themselves.  It's like early comic book movies where the only homeword the writers seemed to have done is just read character summaries.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4643 on: December 24, 2019, 03:07:15 PM »
Outside of Leia and Han's kid going bad?

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4644 on: December 24, 2019, 04:00:30 PM »
finally get the franchise away from lucas and this is what they do with it  :neogaf :neogaf :neogaf

all they really had to do was have mark hamil be a badass jedi master, all I wanted to see out of a new star war  :picard
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BIONIC

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4645 on: December 24, 2019, 04:19:48 PM »
finally get the franchise away from lucas and this is what they do with it  :neogaf :neogaf :neogaf

all they really had to do was have mark hamil be a badass jedi master, all I wanted to see out of a new star war  :picard



:lucas #SubvertedExpectations :lucas
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Coffee Dog

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4646 on: December 24, 2019, 05:34:54 PM »
that shot of luke drinking the milk like a slob is more entertaining than anything involving the new protagonists in the whole trilogy :goty2

Bebpo

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4647 on: December 24, 2019, 05:47:57 PM »
I actually thought Luke was fucking badass in TLJ.
He can be badass & a grumpy old man jerk at the same time.

Pretty much had the best material in the new trilogy.

Boredfrom

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4648 on: December 24, 2019, 05:50:48 PM »
 :kermit

TVC15

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4649 on: December 24, 2019, 06:00:11 PM »
I rewatched TLJ right before the awesome TROS. My final bullet points.

* The Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff is mostly really good.
* The other plot stuff is all terrible. The difference in quality is vast.
* Finn and especially Poe got done so dirty. What a waste of promising characters.
* The humor problem with this film has not been overstated. Call it marvel humor or whatever you want, the humor here is jarringly placed and usually doesn’t land right
* This movie has a lot of fat on it. Unneeded incidental scenes and sequences that just feel like padding. I guess they could repurpose that time to set up the emperor’s glorious return when they do the special editions.
serge

Uncle

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4650 on: December 24, 2019, 06:33:52 PM »
biggest dogshit is when the movie is already way overstuffed and they have the audacity to keep introducing new characters

of whom it sounds like only babu frick has landed

poe's girlfriend literally just added to sell a toy, same with lando's probably-daughter

I even thought rose was terrible in the last film but they could've cut those characters and given anything they did to rose instead so we don't have to introduce yet more characters who get one minute of development
Uncle

TVC15

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4651 on: December 24, 2019, 06:39:09 PM »
I was no fan at all of Rose’s story in TLJ but even I thought how she was treated in TROS was shitty. You bothered to introduce this character, at least give them a death or something.
serge

Oblivion

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4652 on: December 24, 2019, 08:02:33 PM »
Do you think back in the 3rd century as new books of the Bible were being released, people were having similar reactions as they are to Star Wars?

"WTF, now Jesus can walk on water in this one?" "His mother is a virgin now?!"

one of the most mindblowing things to me was finding out that the new testament basically said to ignore everything in the old testament

i mean, i know "religion lol" and and all, but even then, that's some masterful trolling by god


* The humor problem with this film has not been overstated. Call it marvel humor or whatever you want, the

no joke (ha, get it??), there was probably a grand total of two, MAYBE three times the audience in my theater laughed (for both movies)

made me regain a tiny bit of faith in humanity  :rejoice

thisismyusername

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4653 on: December 24, 2019, 09:50:35 PM »
I was no fan at all of Rose’s story in TLJ but even I thought how she was treated in TROS was shitty. You bothered to introduce this character, at least give them a death or something.

https://twitter.com/ScandalousMurph/status/1208631910638989313

https://twitter.com/cushbomb/status/1208627943955718145

Boredfrom

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4654 on: December 24, 2019, 09:58:23 PM »
Being fair, they should have tell them that they suck during the filming of the Last Jedi and kicked them out of the production. Would have made a better world to us and them to live on.

Joe Molotov

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4655 on: December 24, 2019, 09:58:42 PM »
They should have just Rogue One’d everyone at the end of this movie.
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Boredfrom

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4656 on: December 24, 2019, 10:05:24 PM »
I was laughing the hell out at the end of Rogue One. Rocks fall and everyone dies and you are supposed to fell emotional about this like it was earned.

Oblivion

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4657 on: December 24, 2019, 10:55:39 PM »
the scene with the dude with the british accent who got blown up and gave that 'sheeeeeeeeeeit' look on his face seemed super goofy to me, but was supposed to be very dramatic i guess?

Oblivion

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4658 on: December 24, 2019, 10:56:58 PM »
also, it looks like i'm super out of the loop when it comes to star wars corporate lore, but i thought james cameron was always supposed to come back to direct ROS. did that only happen cause disney was unhappy with rian johnson?

Boredfrom

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4659 on: December 24, 2019, 11:02:02 PM »
James Cameron?  :doge

Oblivion

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4660 on: December 24, 2019, 11:04:46 PM »
dammit

jj abrahams. sorry, i get them confused all the time

edit: wait, is that even the right guy too? whoever the hell did both tfa and ros dammit

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Madrun Badrun

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4662 on: December 24, 2019, 11:10:31 PM »
Joss Weden is the director you are looking for.


Great Rumbler

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4664 on: December 24, 2019, 11:47:33 PM »
Colin Trevorrow [the Jurassic World guy] was originally supposed to do ROS, but got yeeted because they realized he was actually terrible.
dog

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4665 on: December 25, 2019, 10:47:43 AM »
I was no fan at all of Rose’s story in TLJ but even I thought how she was treated in TROS was shitty. You bothered to introduce this character, at least give them a death or something.

I thought the solution was going to give her a scene where she blows some troopers or droids the fuck out with a rifle for cheap likeability points. It's so transparent to just have the other characters tell her to sit at the base and stay the fuck out of the film.  :lol

Don Rumata

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4666 on: December 25, 2019, 11:28:01 AM »
Colin Trevorrow [the Jurassic World guy] was originally supposed to do ROS, but got yeeted because they realized he was actually terrible.

It would be hard to fuck things up worse than what Rian or JJ did.

If he made a big dumb action Star Wars that was fun and remotely coherent on any level - even if stupid - that would be better than this nuclear dumpster fire.
Dude, the idiot was thinking about shooting scenes in space... like, real space.
That's how Galaxy Brain that guy is (or i mean, just look at his Jurassic World movies).

thisismyusername

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4667 on: December 25, 2019, 12:18:29 PM »
Colin Trevorrow [the Jurassic World guy] was originally supposed to do ROS, but got yeeted because they realized he was actually terrible.

I actually liked Jurassic World, as dumb as it was. Fallen Kingdom is where things got dumb (IIRC he did that one as well) because of the whole "we need to sequel bait, make it obvious we're trying to make this a universe!" by Universal.

Nintex

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4668 on: December 25, 2019, 06:28:54 PM »
Watched TFA in anticipation of The Rise of Skywalker this friday.
There's a lot to like in that movie and even if you know what happens in the next film it is just a very fun film in general to watch.

- Rey and Finn form a great team together #FINNREY4LIFE
- Han Solo is given quite a big role in this movie and he works well as a mentor for Rey/Finn
- The structure of the film is rather simple, not a lot of threads to follow just a nice Roller coaster ride from point A to point B
- The design of everything except Maz (she seeems to be a refugee from TPM) is great in this film. The newly painted X-wings, Starkiller Base, the wrecks on Jakku, all very well executed
- Despite all the good stuff in some ways it is too simple and straightforward. Would've been nice if there was some more adventuring along the way or some of the challenges were bigger (especially for Rey) but it's hard to find a scene in this movie not focused on the plot
- It's very weird that despite all these 'emotions' in the film, no one seems to care much that TFO just blew up the Republic, killing millions or billions(?) like at all, I believe only 3CPO seems somewhat worried about having lost the fleet  :doge
- Unlike in Battlefront 2 and TLJ the First Order is comically stupid in this. To the point that you start to wonder how this band of fuckups ever managed to get such a destructive weapon and army operational

If all goes as planned The Last Jedi is up for tomorrow  :doge
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 06:35:55 PM by Nintex »
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shosta

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4669 on: December 26, 2019, 12:38:26 AM »
I'm now done with all six Lucas films.

Empire Strikes Back has the distinction of being an entire order of magnitude better than every other film. It was even better than I remembered it. Both Han getting frozen and "No, I'm your father" hit pretty hard. I'm flabbergasted that this got mixed reviews when it came out. It's simply a perfect a movie.

Return of the Jedi by comparison is actually just as bad as I remember it. The pacing is all wrong. The only redeeming aspect of it was Luke's final confrontation with the Emperor, and even that dragged on too long. It's a bottom tier kid's movie (as opposed to the others which are regular kids movies).

Final ranking: 5 >> 3 > 1 > 4 > 2 >> 6

Will watch the Disney films next.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 12:45:58 AM by shosta »
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Rahxephon91

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4670 on: December 26, 2019, 01:15:43 AM »
I've never been down with Return hate. The movie itself has this super cool 80s asthetic. It looks really gritty in a way none of the others do. The begining is really cool. Jabba's palace is so atmospheric in its dinginess and feels like a cool portion of Star Wars that we parley see. The first action scene is such a cool "getting the gang back together" sequence. I love it. Luke is super cool in this part of the movie. The assault on the Death Star 2 is the the definite Star Wars space battle. All of the Luke stuff is great.

Yeah the Ewoks bring it down, but I still feel there's plenty of cool stuff and great character moments. I like it a lot.

shosta

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4671 on: December 26, 2019, 01:23:41 AM »
All good points but the bad parts drag it way down for me. Flattest acting in the original trilogy, superfluous additions (did Leia really have to be Luke's sister?), mostly subpar action. If they had cut 40 minutes out of this film it might have actually been a good movie.

I think part of it is that I've watched a star wars movie every night for a week because my mom wants to feel more American and I just want it to be over already. And by it I mean my life
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Rahxephon91

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4672 on: December 26, 2019, 01:32:04 AM »
Yeah I can't imagine watching Star Wars thinking about it from an angle beyond "this was a part of my childhood". I mean my family(my mother and sister) don't give a shit about it so I guess that fact stopped me from thinking it was something everyone liked.


Uncle

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4673 on: December 26, 2019, 06:53:40 AM »
shosta: it's a bottom tier kid's movie

rahx: post that calls it "cool" 6 times

I don't know who to believe  :notlikethis
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 07:26:49 AM by Uncle »
Uncle

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4674 on: December 26, 2019, 10:18:52 AM »
Putting return under any of the sequel films or prequel films is basically trolling.  :lol

Even if you say that the only good part of the movie is Luke's storyline/the confrontation with Vader, that's still a lot more good than any of the others have. It also has the benefit of nailing the single most important lynchpin elements in its climax (compared to TLJ, the other 33% film in the series, not really accomplishing much with its quality content other than getting Luke to sudoku in public)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 10:24:14 AM by Coffee Dog »

mormapope

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4675 on: December 26, 2019, 03:43:30 PM »
Also, Luke with a green lightsaber in all black is some sexy shit.
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toku

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4676 on: December 26, 2019, 04:36:37 PM »
You want a super cool 80s aesthetic you watch cherry 2000 not return of the fucking jedi


Rahxephon91

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4677 on: December 26, 2019, 04:58:41 PM »
Nah....I’m still going to watch Return of the Jedi. It’s totally cool.

toku

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4678 on: December 26, 2019, 05:03:48 PM »
Cool

Nintex

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Re: The Star War is dead. Long live the Star War! [pbuh]
« Reply #4679 on: December 26, 2019, 05:16:18 PM »
So it went as planned and TLJ was seen. Fully prepared for TROS now but first...

- TLJ looks great, it's a pretty movie to watch with excellent shots
- The intro sets up the stakes pretty well, the Resistance is really in a pinch so up to that point the plot makes sense
- All elements that bring it down are introduced within the same 5 or 10 minutes.
-> Finn meets Rose
-> Skywalker tells Rey he won't train her
-> Holdo becomes the new leader
- The movie could've been easily 'fixed' at certain points, the scene where Luke enters the Falcon for example. It ends with him saying to R2 he's not going to help. Would've been perfect if at that point he realized he should help
- The Casino scenes were even worse than I remember. I had forgotten all the CG aliens stomping about and the heroes never interacting with the Master Code breaker
- Some things that to me would be a big deal to certain characters (such as the revelation to Finn that the company that supplies the Tie's also supplies the X-Wings to the Resistance) are never brought up again, if I was Finn I would have some serious questions
- The movie sometimes forgets to use the correct terms, the Resistance/Rebellion are mixed (while in TFA it was consistently 'Resistance')
- Finn's sacrifice is probably the most wasted opportunity of this film, would've given him a complete arc and Finn dying would have an effect on Rey too
- The movie has two endings.
-> The first ending is when Rey and Kylo defeat Snoke and Rey escapes, while Holdo blows up the Star Destroyers with a Light speed sacrifice
-> The second ending of course, the scene with the salt planet and the ending of the film
- Obviously the 'first ending' is great. In fact, the second ending was totally unnecessary. There was no need for Luke to confront Kylo or the rebels to be at a shitty base waiting for their doom. Not to mention with their fleet in tatters,
the First Order wouldn't have been able to so easily attack the new rebel base.
- The first ending seems to be part of a different movie than the second ending or vice versa.

Second ending could work if Kylo and Hux would disagree on strategy and in the end Kylo decided: "Fuck all this, I'll take them out myself" and he headed out alone or with some of his loyalists as a Sith super soldier, while Hux tries to get the First Order back into fighting shape as a plan B. Knowing that the Resistance only has a few ships, very few weapons and no Jedi (except for Leia, who is no match for him) Kylo could've done that. Lo and behold, when he arrives to kill the remaining rebels, hopelessly held up in a base Luke appears to save Leia and they fight..... However you write this though, there's a big piece of motivation missing for Kylo to not just assume control of the First Order but also continue Snoke's plan. Especially after his 'Let the past die' lecture to Rey.

So if we divvy up the film in segments
Intro: B (this could've been JJ's work, just 'classic' Star Wars)
Mid: E- (this is where the film falls apart completely and even gets boring at times)
Ending 1: A (possibly the best sequence in the entire movie is Rey facing down Luke and all she does next, while the heroes try to execute their plan, the plan not working is actually a surprise that works well)
Ending 2: D (this doesn't work at all so the movie doesn't end on a high note bringing it down a notch)

Hard for me to say if TLJ is worse or better than AOTC. AOTC sucks but some of the reasons why it sucks are fairly inoffensive compared to TLJ.
🤴