Author Topic: Catch-all Cop Thread  (Read 75574 times)

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Rufus

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #180 on: June 08, 2015, 01:48:26 PM »
The officer in question may have been curating an interesting Youtube playlist:
http://boingboing.net/2015/06/08/pool-party-policeman-named-vi.html

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #181 on: June 08, 2015, 02:04:53 PM »
There is no middle ground here? We can't say that kids who weren't invited showed up, there was overflow and the kids were being kids, ie unruly assholes?

What's the middle ground that justifies that cop beating up a 15 year old girl and then pulling his gun on a bunch of kids? The dude does an action movie roll in the first five seconds of that video. Even his fellow cops realize how much he fucked up when he pulls on those kids.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #182 on: June 08, 2015, 02:12:18 PM »
That combat roll is amazing, but that's just the tip of it. Running at full speed, throwing kids to the ground, pulling his gun when anybody gets too close, constantly yelling and swearing. Some kids get a little rowdy at a community pool and this dude acts like he's Rambo fighting ISIS in the streets of Mosul. I'd hate to see how he'd respond to an actual serious situation.
dog

Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #183 on: June 08, 2015, 02:43:30 PM »
That roll was just him tripping and trying to play it off. Looks like a clip from 23 Jump Street.

chronovore

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #184 on: June 08, 2015, 08:22:30 PM »
http://boingboing.net/2015/06/08/pool-party-policeman-named-vi.html

Interestingly, his personal YouTube playlists include one on "training," which features a lot of police doling retribution on citizens. I say "interesting," as it is one more item in the court of public opinion which will make whatever his position is harder to defend.

I mean, I think the guy was out of hand, clearly, wildly so -- in retrospect. At the same time, I read news stories about how cops pull someone over for a busted taillight and get shot in the face.

Then again, I also think going in hot to a situation is going to escalate it no matter what. The other cops were not backing this guy's gung-ho play, which probably should be the central focus.

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #185 on: June 08, 2015, 10:26:28 PM »
The other cops were not backing this guy's gung-ho play, which probably should be the central focus.

Look at how those two cops react when that guy pulls his gun. They instantly jump to his side and one of them puts his hand on the guy's shoulder.
dog

chronovore

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #186 on: June 08, 2015, 10:48:07 PM »
The other cops were not backing this guy's gung-ho play, which probably should be the central focus.

Look at how those two cops react when that guy pulls his gun. They instantly jump to his side and one of them puts his hand on the guy's shoulder.
I just watched the whole video, and can't see what you're referring to. What's the timestamp?

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #187 on: June 08, 2015, 10:52:14 PM »
3:10, when the Rambo cop has the girl on the ground and the two guys approach him.
dog

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #188 on: June 09, 2015, 03:02:28 AM »
Maybe he was afraid they would drown.

chronovore

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #189 on: June 09, 2015, 05:37:12 AM »
3:10, when the Rambo cop has the girl on the ground and the two guys approach him.

Ah, yeah. I missed that entirely the first time, thanks.

It is clear they're trying to intervene.

sarslip

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #190 on: June 09, 2015, 03:04:48 PM »
the Daily Show bit helped  :lol

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #191 on: June 10, 2015, 09:20:08 AM »
"He came into the call out of control, and as the video shows, was out of control during the incident. I had 12 officers on the scene, and 11 of them performed according to their training," Police Chief Greg Conley said of Casebolt during a Tuesday press conference.

"I do not condone the actions of those individuals who violated the rules of the community, showed disrespect to the security person on scene, and to the officers who responded," he continued. "However, we as a department are held to a high standard of action as we do our jobs."
dog

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #192 on: June 10, 2015, 09:47:05 AM »
Its great to see an incident like this handled well.
NtGay

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #193 on: June 11, 2015, 03:08:23 PM »
010

Positive Touch

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #194 on: June 11, 2015, 04:03:47 PM »
haw haw

at least there's accountability somewhere, even if it isn't in the police union. and like teachers have it constantly drilled into their heads to shut up on social media, but this dingus is out there calling for segregation to come back? you deserve to fail so much you dummy.
pcp

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #195 on: June 11, 2015, 05:18:53 PM »
#notallwhitepeople
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benjipwns

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #197 on: July 12, 2015, 04:25:08 AM »
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/10/mississippi-death-unarmed-black-man-jonathan-sanders
Quote
State officials in Mississippi are investigating the death of an unarmed black man who was killed in a physical struggle with a police officer while saying “I can’t breathe”, according to his attorney.

Jonathan Sanders suffered “some kind of asphyxiation” during an altercation with white officer Kevin Harrington on Wednesday night, in the small town of Stonewall, in the eastern part of the state, said the attorney, J Stewart Parrish.

...

Parrish told several local media outlets that Harrington pulled Sanders from a horse and choked him to death with a flashlight. Parrish told the Guardian on Friday that allegation had come from relatives who live beside the site of the struggle and witnessed it.

But Stonewall police chief Michael Street denied the details of the attorney’s allegations, telling the Guardian the two men engaged in “a fight” without weapons after Sanders voluntarily stepped down from a horse-drawn buggy.

“We won’t know until the autopsy is over what was the actual cause of death,” said Street. “But there was no flashlight used to choke anybody – that’s false. And there were no shots fired by either man, there were no weapons at all, and he was not dragged off a horse.”

Parrish described the chief’s denial as “a difference without a distinction” because Sanders “was choked to death”, according to the relatives. “Towards the end of the incident, he was telling the officer ‘Let me go, I can’t breathe,” Parrish said they had recalled.

The attorney, who is a former law enforcement officer, said Harrington appeared to have used excessive force. “Officers typically have Tasers, they have pepper spray – there are lots of different non-lethal ways to subdue somebody,” he said. “And one way, of course, is to walk away and come back with more officers.”

...

Street has asked the Mississippi bureau of investigation (MBI) to look into the incident. He declined to specify why Harrington stopped Sanders. “But there’s no lighting on a horse carriage, and at 10.30 at night that’s ... well I can’t discuss that further,” he said in a telephone interview.

...

“He was asking ‘Why do you stop me? What are you hassling me for?’,” Parrish said the witnesses had recounted. “He pulled him off the buggy, and they went to the ground, and it went from there.”

The police chief said Sanders had no active warrants against him and that Harrington did not know who he was when the confrontation took place.

...

Street said his department is composed of 10 part-time officers – nine white and one black. He said one of the white officers was a woman and the other nine officers were men. “So we’re kind of diverse,” he said.

...

The police chief appealed people to remain calm while the inquiry was carried out. “We don’t need anything being taken out into the street,” he said. “Our community is a good community. We don’t see any issues there. We are going to continue our good relationship.”
If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that night being choked to death by a cop.

Rufus

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #199 on: July 12, 2015, 04:17:12 PM »
Michael Iscenko splashed the offending slime on her leg.  Bet it was cause he could smell her cunt. 
NtGay

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #200 on: July 12, 2015, 04:26:15 PM »
Some, uh... levity?
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/nypd-sergeant-throws-semen-on-his-crush.html

Quote
“Everyone who has been questioned says he looks very professional; he wears the uniform well,” the source said. “ This is not some creepy looking pervert. He’s entirely normal looking.”

People gotta get this notion out of their heads that sex offenders look a certain way.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #201 on: July 13, 2015, 03:33:34 PM »
NtGay

studyguy

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #202 on: July 13, 2015, 03:35:22 PM »


Come on....POYS.
Everybody's a winner!


As expected from Canadian PD
:dead
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Madrun Badrun

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studyguy

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #205 on: July 15, 2015, 11:45:03 AM »
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-federal-judge-orders-release-of-videos-20150714-story.html

Saw that, shit's real fucked up.
Looks like the dude was trying to explain that they were trying to help and bam.
Way too trigger happy. Get blasted over having a hat in your hand brehs.
 :tocry
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #206 on: July 15, 2015, 02:09:43 PM »
https://i.imgur.com/uu7F3CV.png

I was like, O cool, then they got racist. 
NtGay


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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #208 on: July 16, 2015, 12:30:50 AM »
Ugh. I'd probably end up getting arrested for assaulting a police officer if that had been my mom.  :-\
dog

chronovore

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #209 on: July 16, 2015, 11:18:02 PM »
That's messed up. I hope she enjoys her free money from the lawsuit / settlement.

benjipwns

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #210 on: July 17, 2015, 04:14:58 AM »
http://abc7chicago.com/news/road-trip-for-suburban-woman-ends-in-jailhouse-death/853139/
Quote
Newly obtained video shows the arrest of 28-year-old Sandra Bland, a Naperville woman whose death at a Texas jail is being angrily questioned by her friends and relatives.

Sandra Bland was found dead in a Waller County, Texas, jail cell on Monday at 9 a.m. after being arrested for allegedly assaulting a police officer during a routine traffic stop, the I-Team has learned. Authorities say her death appears to be suicide.

...

Bland was pulled over Friday for improper signaling a lane change, according to Waller County Sheriff's Department officials. They say she was charged with "Assault on a Public Servant" and taken into custody by a Texas Department of Public Safety trooper.

"After he pulled her out of the car, forced her and tossed her to the ground, knee to the neck, and arrested her," says her friend Malcom Jackson.

Bland's friends say she had been with her family in suburban Chicago over the July 4th holiday, and drove to Texas for a job interview at her alma mater, Texas Prairie View A & M. Family members say she got the position and was to begin working in student outreach today.

In the video of the arrest, an officer is heard telling the bystander taking the video to leave.

In the video he shot, Bland is heard saying, "You just slammed my head into the ground. Do you not even care about that? I can't even hear!"

Then, as she is taken into custody, she repeats, "You slammed me into the ground and everything."

Waller County Sheriff Glenn Smith says Bland "had been combative on the side of the road."

...


Smith says that jailers saw Bland at 7 a.m. Monday when they gave her breakfast and again at 8 a.m. when they spoke with her over the jail intercom. Smith says she was found dead an hour later. In a press release from the sheriff's department, authorities say they applied CPR, but that Bland was pronounced dead shortly after she was found.

The Willowbrook High School graduate died by "self-inflicted asphyxiation," according to sheriff's deputies,
They say she hung herself with a plastic bag.

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #211 on: July 17, 2015, 04:19:44 AM »
Was she a thug?

Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #212 on: July 17, 2015, 07:26:41 AM »
YMMV

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benjipwns

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #216 on: July 21, 2015, 05:45:00 PM »
http://www.wbez.org/news/city-fires-investigator-who-found-cops-fault-shootings-112423
Since I was going to post it, I'll quote from it:
Quote
A Chicago investigator who determined that several civilian shootings by police officers were unjustified was fired after resisting orders to reverse those findings, according to internal records of his agency obtained by WBEZ.

Scott M. Ando, chief administrator of the city’s Independent Police Review Authority, informed its staff in a July 9 email that the agency no longer employed supervising investigator Lorenzo Davis, 65, a former Chicago police commander. IPRA investigates police-brutality complaints and recommends any punishment.

Davis’s termination came less than two weeks after top IPRA officials, evaluating Davis’s job performance, accused him of “a clear bias against the police” and called him “the only supervisor at IPRA who resists making requested changes as directed by management in order to reflect the correct finding with respect to OIS,” as officer-involved shootings are known in the agency.

Since its 2007 creation, IPRA has investigated nearly 400 civilian shootings by police and found one to be unjustified.
Quote
The spokesman said there would be no interview and sent this statement: “This is a personnel matter that would be inappropriate to address through the media, though the allegations are baseless and without merit. IPRA is committed to conducting fair, unbiased, objective, thorough and timely investigations of allegations of police misconduct and officer-involved shootings.”

The performance evaluation covered 19 months and concluded that Davis “displays a complete lack of objectivity combined with a clear bias against the police in spite of his own lengthy police career.”
Quote
Through most of his IPRA tenure, Davis’s performance evaluations showered him with praise. They called him an “effective leader” and “excellent team player.”

The final evaluation, issued June 26, said he “is clearly not a team player.”
Quote
“Things began to turn sour, I would say, within the last year,” Davis said. “Chief Administrator Ando began to say that he wanted me to change my findings.”

Davis says he helped investigate more than a dozen shootings by police at the agency. He says his superiors had no objections when his team recommended exonerating officers. The objections came, he says, after each finding that a shooting was unjustified. He says there were six of those cases.

“They have shot people dead when they did not have to shoot,” Davis said about those officers. “They were not in reasonable fear for their lives. The evidence shows that the officer knew, or should have known, that the person who they shot was not armed or did not pose a threat to them or could have been apprehended by means short of deadly force.”

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #217 on: July 21, 2015, 06:28:50 PM »
There needs to be federal oversight to do this already.
NtGay

chronovore

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #218 on: July 21, 2015, 07:25:33 PM »
There needs to be federal oversight to do this already.

I agree, but you can bet all the States Rights crowd adherents will prevent this any way they can.

Cops need to wear cameras. They have a horribly difficult job, but there's no reasonable expectation of privacy while they're doing it.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #219 on: July 21, 2015, 07:34:52 PM »
The Sandra Bland thing is just another bullet point to an already damning mountain of evidence.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/sandra-bland-police-dash-cam-video-texas

Also cams alone won't do shit.

The problem lies in the very structure of American policing. Historically, the original American police were originally started as escaped slave hunters. When you don't combat or even address that historical racial element, things will never change.

In order to change anything we must:

- have stricter requirements for police
- end the war on drugs, and focus on community policing
- cams
- federal inquiry of all american police stations
- hold police accountable for their actions
- decrease police union strength
- focus on trying to alter the behavior and mentality of American policing in general

In other words, nothing will be done. :american The American Way. :american

Actually, scratch that, things will get done, but only when American police accidentally do this to an ambassador of a foreign country visiting the country. This is why American politicians were pushed into ending segregation: politics. Politicians and visitors from foreign countries, right when America was gaining global power and traction and influence, were told to ride in the back of buses and segregated from the general public. It was an embarrassment for America. Never think that America actually cares about black people. But if it somehows sullies America's honor THEN they'll do something about it. :american
weed

chronovore

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http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/20/sgt_james_brown_26_survived_two
Quote
Newly released video has revealed the dying moments of an African-American active-duty soldier who checked himself into the El Paso, Texas, county jail for a two-day sentence for driving under the influence, and died while in custody in 2012. Authorities claimed Sgt. James Brown died due to a pre-existing medical condition, but shocking new video from inside the jail raises new questions about what happened. The video shows guards swarming on top of him as he repeatedly says he can’t breathe and appears not to resist. By the end of the video, he is shown naked, not blinking or responding, his breathing shallow. Attorneys say an ambulance was never called. Brown was eventually brought to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead. His family had long suspected foul play in his death but received little information from authorities. They’ve now filed a lawsuit against El Paso County saying his constitutional rights were violated. We are joined by Brown’s mother, Dinetta Scott.
Disgusting.

benjipwns

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #221 on: July 21, 2015, 08:03:20 PM »
Another sad case of excited delirium.

benjipwns

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #222 on: July 23, 2015, 07:11:21 AM »
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/22/fundraiser_for_baltimore_cops_charged_in_freddie_grays_death_to_feature_blackface_performance/
Quote
A fundraiser for the “Baltimore 6″ — the police officers charged in the death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray — will feature a blackface performance by a former police officer who was compelled to leave force in 1984 for performing in blackface, Ebony’s Jamilah Lemieux reports.

Among the list of entertainers on the invitation to the fundraiser is one “Bobby ‘Al Jolson’ Berger — out of retirement,” which as Lemieux noted is one of the stranger ways “to raise funds for a group of police implicated in the death of a black man.” When she contacted number listed on the invitation, however, she discovered why Berger had been booked — “I’m hosting the event,” he told her.

“I was a Baltimore city policeman,” he said by way of explaining why he was hosting the fundraiser, “and then I had no income, no insurance, and a wife and child. We’re trying to get something together for them for Christmas.”

Berger claimed that while he knows “it sounds crazy,” there’s no racial dimension to blackface performances, and that the fact that black people — including former heavyweight boxing champion Joe Frazier — attended his show without taking offense proves as much. “The only thing I can tell you is that the heavyweight champion of the world isn’t going to stand by and watch me mock Black people,” he said, adding that neither Montel Williams nor Ben Vereen were offended by it either.

Lemieux asked whether he considered it inappropriate to perform in blackface given “the racially-charged nature of the Gray case and ensuing civil unrest,” and he dismissed the notion out of hand.

“There’s not a prejudiced bone in my body,” Berger said. “I would never do anything to insult anybody. I wouldn’t do that show if I thought it was insulting.” He explained that it simply “feels like the right time to put some money in these family’s pockets.”

As for those who do find it offensive, Berger said “it’s just make-up, there’s no jokes, no buffoonery. If that bothers you, don’t buy a ticket.”

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-fundraiser-black-face-20150722-story.html
Quote
len Burnie venue on Wednesday abruptly canceled a planned fundraiser for the six Baltimore police officers charged in the arrest and death of Freddie Gray after the scheduled entertainment — a former Baltimore officer singing in blackface — drew sharp criticism.

Bobby Berger, 67, who was fired from the city police force in the 1980s after his off-duty performances in blackface drew the ire of the NAACP, had said he wanted to revive the act to help the families of the officers.

He said he had sold 600 tickets at $45 each to the bull roast scheduled for Nov. 1 at Michael's Eighth Avenue, where he and several singers planned to perform as guests dined.

In his performances, Berger impersonates Al Jolson, a white entertainer from the 1920s, '30s and '40s best remembered for his blackface performance of "Mammy" in the film "The Jazz Singer."

But after news of the event began spreading Wednesday, Michael's posted a statement on its website saying the event would not be held there.

PC Police now waging war on regular Hero Police.

chronovore

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #223 on: July 23, 2015, 08:09:05 PM »
That's messed up. I hope she enjoys her free money from the lawsuit / settlement.

http://www.wzzm13.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/23/bodycam-video-shows-illegal-arrest-of-naked-woman/30573791/

Looks like the arresting douchebag had his body cam turned off, but his partner didn't, and the daughter also recorded everything on the phone.

ENJOY YOUR NEW HOUSE, LADY!

Nothing sufficiently bad will happen to the cop; he should be put in the stocks, nude, in public.

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #224 on: July 28, 2015, 04:29:48 PM »
NtGay

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #225 on: July 28, 2015, 04:52:34 PM »
pause

Steve Contra

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #226 on: July 29, 2015, 01:46:26 PM »
That Sam Dubose video  :'(

Edit here it is:



Just be warned it's of a dude getting murdered.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 02:02:02 PM by Steve Contra »
vin

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #227 on: July 29, 2015, 02:17:07 PM »
That cop must be some kind of magician or did he always have the gun out?
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T234

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #228 on: July 30, 2015, 05:20:06 AM »
SHIT IS FUCKED
UK

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #229 on: July 30, 2015, 08:44:47 AM »
Damn


Madrun Badrun

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #230 on: August 02, 2015, 05:48:21 PM »
NtGay

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #231 on: August 05, 2015, 12:17:19 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/zachary-hammond-police-killing_55c0e240e4b0c9fdc75dfda3?utm_hp_ref=black-voices&ir=Black%2BVoices&section=black-voices&kvcommref=mostpopular&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000047

As I posted on facebook.

That's because ‪#‎AllLivesMatter‬ people are anti-intellectual shit heels who have no room for context, or an ounce of courage. They are cowards and racists who speak on a soapbox of platitudes and don't fight any fight except the battle to be an asshole. Whose conviction is so narrow and false that they really DON'T care about police violence despite trying to take over a movement who message towards anti-police violence runs at its very core. Make no mistake, #AllLivesMatter people do not actually think all lives matter, they are simply deflecting from the issue to make a seemingly smart way (in their pea brain sized minds) to say that black lives really don't matter. They don't even think white lives matter. When push comes to shove, they are nowhere to be seen; Is that a surprise? Certainly not by me. These cowards may not fight for Zachary, but I will!
weed

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #232 on: August 05, 2015, 12:22:00 PM »
Also, fuck the police. :)
weed

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #233 on: August 05, 2015, 03:40:50 PM »
The #AllLivesMatter movement isn't about solving a problem, it's about deflating a group that actually is trying to solve a problem.
dog

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #234 on: August 05, 2015, 05:05:58 PM »

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #235 on: August 10, 2015, 03:28:00 AM »
Ferguson bis repetita. Pretty unclear what happened so far, but there's footage of a severe gunfight on a parking lot (20+ shots probably and multiple shooters it seems). Possibly other shooting incidents. Also confrontations between cops and possible protesters elsewhere.  :-\
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 03:38:24 AM by VomKriege »
ὕβρις

brob

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #236 on: August 11, 2015, 05:39:46 PM »


:lawd

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #237 on: August 11, 2015, 09:31:39 PM »
Ferguson bis repetita. Pretty unclear what happened so far, but there's footage of a severe gunfight on a parking lot (20+ shots probably and multiple shooters it seems). Possibly other shooting incidents. Also confrontations between cops and possible protesters elsewhere.  :-\

best I can tell is that people opened fire and this dude pulled out his gun as he ran behind the building. some plainclothes dorks that were hiding in the crowd ran after him and shot him. they cuffed him instead of doing first aid too smh. hope he pulls thru.
pcp

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Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #238 on: August 11, 2015, 10:01:06 PM »
Looks like a bunch of trigger-happy cacs armed with assault rifles have shown up in Ferguson to offer protection to journalists [but mainly the one from Infowars]. :goty
dog

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
  • Senior Member
Re: Catch-all Cop Thread
« Reply #239 on: August 11, 2015, 10:52:15 PM »
Looks like a bunch of trigger-happy cacs armed with assault rifles have shown up in Ferguson to offer protection to journalists [but mainly the one from Infowars]. :goty

Well I guess it's obvious that Black Dong is the sister operation to Jade Helm  :hans1



:lawd

 :lol
Sovereign citizens / Freemen of the Land are grade-A kooks. "I am not subject to your maritime law and do not CONS..."
Didn't know that US (and British) cops were allowed to bust your window. Not being shy with force I suspect French ones are allowed as well ?



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