Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6930851 times)

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Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4620 on: April 04, 2017, 01:09:29 PM »
Glad to see Sanders making an appearance in a southern state.

Kara

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4621 on: April 04, 2017, 01:10:11 PM »
$12/hour in 2017 would be the highest real minimum wage in US history.

The last freeze was ~10 years, partisanry has not subsided since then, and the Republican Party appears rather prone to internecine conflict on top of that given their inability to #RepealAndReplace, thus it behooves those pushing for a raise in the minimum wage to ask for the highest raise possible because who the heck knows when it will happen the next time.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4622 on: April 04, 2017, 01:18:18 PM »
Jack's point, as I read it, is that the delta of three bucks is kind of a silly place to find the gap between socialist folk hero and villain from an episode of Captain Planet. I'd tend to agree.

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4623 on: April 04, 2017, 01:20:37 PM »
Even his faithful troll brigade doesn't like it.

Given what's likely to be in their browser history, I'm not surprised.

It's like one is speaking in an impoverished state with a right to work law on the books, while the other is speaking to techies in San Francisco.

Do we not want better corporate behavior in the tech industry? Is this cause a waste of time? Why walk when we could be chewing gum?

I've never felt the word "college intellectual" was justified until this past year.

It's like one actually goes to impoverished states and talks to union organizers, while the other spends her time hobnobbing with techie scum and bankers

I'll take hobnobbing with techie scum over any republican.

Libertarian techie scum tho
dog

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4624 on: April 04, 2017, 01:55:39 PM »
http://time.com/4724128/donald-trump-internet-history-isp-privacy-browser-history/

 :sheik

Finally solving the critical issues this country faces.
I don't know if its incompetence, old age factor, or it just not filtering through the media, but Democrats are fumbling a really lucrative political issue that even the most loyal Trumpkins are not happy with.

Between this and the soon-to-be net neutrality bill, other then healthcare, nothing in my mind so clearly exposes the hypocrisies and bullshit of the Republican parties double-speak then their positions on internet rights and propping up oligopolies at the expense of consumers....an oligopoly universally hated across the country by a majority of people.

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4625 on: April 04, 2017, 02:22:21 PM »
Even his faithful troll brigade doesn't like it.

I dunno what they expected, Trump was always shady as fuck and him withholding his taxes was way more worrisome than Hillary e-mails. The guy never cared about privacy rights if they'll are not his own.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4626 on: April 04, 2017, 02:46:41 PM »
$15 is stupid as a national minimum wage anyway. Sure it works in Seattle. It would work a lot less well in places with much lower average incomes and much lower cost-of-living.

Isn't the natural retort to this, why is $12 workable either? What makes $12 optimal and not $9 or $13.50?

In either case, it comes down to net benefit right?

The real question should be(at least to a liberal like myself) where should that baseline be set at to maximize the net benefit to workers while retaining American economic health and not crashing local economies?

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4627 on: April 04, 2017, 02:54:25 PM »
Trump hit sub-40 in the RCP average today.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

ACA still with a net positive rating, Trump still with a net positive economic rating though.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4628 on: April 04, 2017, 03:12:45 PM »

Speaking of polls...







I wonder why  :huh

Quote
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
:jeanluc

You have to hand it to the right wing propaganda chambers though, they are good at what they do

They are just built perfectly for a president like Trump.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 03:20:13 PM by Nola »

Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4629 on: April 04, 2017, 03:22:34 PM »

Speaking of polls...


(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)


I wonder why  :huh

Quote
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
:jeanluc

You have to hand it to the right wing propaganda chambers though, they are good at what they do

They are just built perfectly for a president like Trump.
Do you want some gloom and doom with that?
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/uw-professor-the-information-war-is-real-and-were-losing-it/

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4630 on: April 04, 2017, 03:46:24 PM »
Trump can't get reelected. Bush's approval ratings were around 50% in fall 2004. Trump is already hovering near 40 with multiple polls putting him at 35 or 36.

No one is getting reelected with a sub-40 approval rating.
Not to pick on you Jack, but I mean, how about we wait three years or so before deciding the election still over six months away from that date.

Saddam being captured in December 2003 arguably altered major dynamics of the Iraq debate, and two years earlier Bush had this little event* that put his approval in the 80s for months that didn't fade instantly like his dad's. Obama never had anything that punted him up into the 60s for an entire year, his election didn't even keep him there for more than a few months.

Not to mention see what kind of competition there is.

I expect his numbers to sky rocket when he declares the Freedom Caucus to be enemy combatants for one based on my watching Lou Dobbs Tonight recently.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*investigate 311
[close]

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4631 on: April 04, 2017, 03:55:00 PM »
The GOP wasn't supposed to run the table in 2014 like they did either, and that's just based on the polling aggregates not the expert picks, they were looking at maybe a tie or one seat in the Senate for example but they nearly swept everything.

There's a set of far more complex dynamics at work here that pulled the GOP out of the mud, one of which probably being polling sample problems after all, if not just to the extent of the unskewed polls expectations.

Phoenix Dark

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TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4633 on: April 04, 2017, 04:05:34 PM »
lol
püp

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4634 on: April 04, 2017, 05:00:04 PM »
Franken 2020
As long as it's not a Clinton they may have a chance.
Hi

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4635 on: April 04, 2017, 05:08:34 PM »
Sherrod Brown

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4636 on: April 04, 2017, 05:13:12 PM »
McAuliffe!

Trurl

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4637 on: April 04, 2017, 05:17:00 PM »
Sherrod Brown
Do you want people on SNL to destroy their vocal cords?

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4638 on: April 04, 2017, 05:20:45 PM »
Pretty sure it's impossible for democrats to nominate someone as disliked as Clinton so
:yeshrug

[insert name] 2020  :american
010

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4639 on: April 04, 2017, 05:22:48 PM »
Pretty sure it's impossible for democrats to nominate someone as disliked as Clinton so
:yeshrug

[insert name] 2020  :american

Give Debbie Wasserman Schultz enough airtime and she'll get there.


Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4640 on: April 04, 2017, 05:23:50 PM »
If the economy stays on track, no reason Trump couldn't get re-elected.

ALso, sort of dreading the possibility Martin O'Malley vs. Trump.

The attacks on O'Malley would be all some version of Failed To Control The Darkies (the Baltimore riots, the Baltimore jail, the Rockville HS rape, etc.). Do not want.

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4641 on: April 04, 2017, 06:54:10 PM »
Not to pick on you Jack, but I mean, how about we wait three years or so before deciding the election still over six months away from that date.

If he wins reelection (...) I'll give you $10,000. Not even looking to make a bet. I'll just give it to you.
ὕβρις

brawndolicious

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4642 on: April 04, 2017, 07:11:00 PM »
One thing you guys are forgetting is that in 2020, whether or not Trump is running, the election is going to be a choice between two parties and not just two candidates.

For Democrats with a minority/no veto override power, all they have to do to seem functional is oppose whatever GOP legislation pops up.

Republicans on the other hand are running a total shit show with deep divides in their own party and the guy at the top of the ladder is literally an Internet troll. I expect every large piece of legislation to crash and burn like the AHCA, demoralizing conservative voters.

The other issue is that overt racism is going to go way up in the next few years so you need to capitalize on that with an Obamaish, minority/non-white candidate who is both attractive/fit and very intelligent and qualified. I know people mention Kamala Harris a lot for 2020 but she really would be a good candidate if you want to really fight Trump straight on rather than politely ignoring his views and history. The best thing to do is show young women and minorities that the Donkey Party hasn't been scared back to Good Ol' Boys or else they won't turn out to vote.

Atramental

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4643 on: April 04, 2017, 07:30:41 PM »
That's a lot of money to throw away.

We wouldn't want you going back & editing it later when ...I mean if Trump gets re-elected. :trumps

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4644 on: April 04, 2017, 08:59:20 PM »


Apparently a real thing?

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4645 on: April 04, 2017, 09:05:08 PM »
One thing you guys are forgetting is that in 2020, whether or not Trump is running, the election is going to be a choice between two parties and not just two candidates.

For Democrats with a minority/no veto override power, all they have to do to seem functional is oppose whatever GOP legislation pops up.

Republicans on the other hand are running a total shit show with deep divides in their own party and the guy at the top of the ladder is literally an Internet troll. I expect every large piece of legislation to crash and burn like the AHCA, demoralizing conservative voters.

The other issue is that overt racism is going to go way up in the next few years so you need to capitalize on that with an Obamaish, minority/non-white candidate who is both attractive/fit and very intelligent and qualified. I know people mention Kamala Harris a lot for 2020 but she really would be a good candidate if you want to really fight Trump straight on rather than politely ignoring his views and history. The best thing to do is show young women and minorities that the Donkey Party hasn't been scared back to Good Ol' Boys or else they won't turn out to vote.

We are 3 months into this presidency. Making any proclamations or prescriptions this far out seems a bit silly.

Would anyone of expected that the solution to John Kerry's defeat in 2004, when most people thought the Democratic party needed to find a person of rural or southern heritage, in the mold of a more liberal Bill Clinton, in order to connect to rural voters and make a dent in key swing states, would be best achieved by a black guy from Chicago with a Muslim sounding name?



Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4646 on: April 04, 2017, 09:05:13 PM »
We haven't begun to speak enough about what Fox & Friends was reporting about  Susan Rice, tho. Stay tuned for further comment.
©@©™

chronovore

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4647 on: April 04, 2017, 09:25:27 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Apparently a real thing?
Do you mean the missile, or Tillerson's ennui?


$15 is stupid as a national minimum wage anyway. Sure it works in Seattle. It would work a lot less well in places with much lower average incomes and much lower cost-of-living.

I'm not an economist, but I wonder if having that kind of minimum wage would effectively get a lot of people to move to more affordable areas, where increase the local population with spending cash increases the microeconomy, improving money's general overall "velocity," and improving the national economy on the whole.


Came here to post this:
https://twitter.com/McJesse/status/842481727419420674

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4648 on: April 04, 2017, 10:03:53 PM »
We haven't begun to speak enough about what Fox & Friends was reporting about  Susan Rice, tho. Stay tuned for further comment.
Susan Rice’s White House Unmasking: A Watergate-style Scandal:
Quote
The thing to bear in mind is that the White House does not do investigations. Not criminal investigations, not intelligence investigations.

Remember that.

Why is that so important in the context of explosive revelations that Susan Rice, President Obama’s national-security adviser, confidant, and chief dissembler, called for the “unmasking” of Trump campaign and transition officials whose identities and communications were captured in the collection of U.S. intelligence on foreign targets?

Because we’ve been told for weeks that any unmasking of people in Trump’s circle that may have occurred had two innocent explanations: (1) the FBI’s investigation of Russian meddling in the election and (2) the need to know, for purposes of understanding the communications of foreign intelligence targets, the identities of Americans incidentally intercepted or mentioned. The unmasking, Obama apologists insist, had nothing to do with targeting Trump or his people.

That won’t wash.
Quote
The most telling remark that former Obama deputy defense secretary Evelyn Farkas made in her now-infamous MSNBC interview was the throw-away line at the end: “That’s why you have all the leaking.”

Put this in context: Farkas had left the Obama administration in 2015, subsequently joining the presidential campaign of, yes, Hillary Clinton — Trump’s opponent. She told MSNBC that she had been encouraging her former Obama-administration colleagues and members of Congress to seek “as much information as you can” from the intelligence community.

“That’s why you have the leaking.”

To summarize: At a high level, officials like Susan Rice had names unmasked that would not ordinarily be unmasked. That information was then being pushed widely throughout the intelligence community in unmasked form . . . particularly after Obama, toward the end of his presidency, suddenly — and seemingly apropos of nothing — changed the rules so that all of the intelligence agencies (not just the collecting agencies) could have access to raw intelligence information.

As we know, the community of intelligence agencies leaks like a sieve, and the more access there is to juicy information, the more leaks there are. Meanwhile, former Obama officials and Clinton-campaign advisers, like Farkas, were pushing to get the information transferred from the intelligence community to members of Congress, geometrically increasing the likelihood of intelligence leaks.

By the way, have you noticed that there have been lots of intelligence leaks in the press?

There’s an old saying in the criminal law: The best evidence of a conspiracy is success.

The criminal law also has another good rule of thumb: Consciousness of guilt is best proved by false exculpatory statements. That’s a genre in which Susan Rice has rich experience.

Two weeks ago, she was asked in an interview about allegations by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R., Calif.) that the Obama administration had unmasked Trump-team members.

“I know nothing about this,” Rice replied. “I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that count today.”

Well, at least she didn’t blame it on a video.
Remember that.

CNN GOES ON RAMPAGE AGAINST SUSAN RICE BOMBSHELL, INSTRUCTS VIEWERS TO IGNORE STORY
Quote
Since news broke Monday that the Obama Administration's National Security Adviser, Susan Rice, directed the "unmasking" of NSA intercepts of Trump associates, CNN has raced to shoot down the blockbuster report.

CNN Tonight's Don Lemon went so far as to announce he would ignore the news at all costs.

While interviewing a Democratic congressman, CNN's Chris Cuomo claimed it was "demonstrably untrue" Rice sought surveillance of the Trump team, even as that's exactly what yesterday's reports prove.

Over the last 24 hours, the network has also repeatedly called on its chief national security correspondent -- who was also a political appointee in the Obama White House -- Jim Sciutto, to dismiss the reports as a non-story; Sciutto has even excused Rice claiming ignorance of the unmasking scandal two weeks ago, arguing Rice "wasn't aware" what unmasking Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) was referring to.

And on Tuesday's "New Day," anchor Alisyn Camerota openly pleaded with Sen. John McCain to write-off the news as unimportant.

Last night, Lemon began "CNN Tonight" with an announcement that the Rice report a "fake scandal ginned up by right-wing media and Trump" that he would not be baited into justifying with coverage.

"On this program tonight, we will not insult your intelligence by pretending," it's legitimate, he said. "Nor will we aid and abet the people trying to misinform you, the American people, by creating a diversion. Not going to do it."
That won't wash.

Why Men and Women Can Never Be ‘Just Friends’
Quote
To destroy the Friend Zone, women must accept the following truths: you don’t have any guy friends and, in fact, you can’t have any guy friends.
Quote
So, apart from tearing down America’s institutions of higher education, which tend to slow down the recitation of wedding vows, how do we do that? It’s quite simple. We tear down the Friend Zone.

Every year, countless young men find themselves trapped in the Friend Zone, a prison where women place any man they deem worthy of their time but not their hearts, men they’d love to have dinner with but, for whatever reason, don’t want to kiss goodnight.

Being caught in the Friend Zone is an inarguable drag on fertility rates, as a man who spends several years pledging his heart to a woman who will never have his children is also a man who most likely won’t procreate with anyone else during that time of incarceration. Free him to find a woman who actually wants to marry him, however, and he’ll have several more years to sire children who will laugh, create, sing, fill the world with love and, most importantly, pay into Social Security.

Quite simply, for the sake of our future, the Friend Zone must be destroyed. For the Friend Zone to be destroyed, women must accept the following truths: you don’t have any guy friends and, in fact, you can’t have any guy friends.
Remember that.

bluemax

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Phoenix Dark

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I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4651 on: April 04, 2017, 11:34:54 PM »
It's okay, Dumbledore's army is gonna save us: http://thehill.com/homenews/news/327343-harvard-graduate-students-form-dumbledores-army-to-fight-against-trump-agenda
The cynic in me is like "Oh look at these snowflakes. Are they gonna color Trump away?"

But then most of me is like, "Hey, they're actually doing something and educating people. You shouldn't belittle that. It's more than nearly anyone is doing."

I'll go with, "It's LeviOsa. Not LevioSA."
que

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4652 on: April 05, 2017, 01:28:49 AM »
I'll go with, "It's LeviOsa. Not LevioSA."

leviosaaaaaa~
dog

Syph

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4653 on: April 05, 2017, 01:33:39 AM »
After spending about 2 hours last night reading on the so-called ( :trumps) "nuclear option", I've concluded both parties and their supporters can stfu. It's another case of things being blown out of proportion. Maybe (probably) more-so because it's Trump, but at the end of the day, this is an "issue" that history demonstrably shows is supported/protested by whichever party is the majority/minority.

However it is unfortunately once again a relevant commentary on the times and how there has been no boomerang in bipartisanship, only a widening of the gulf.

Meanwhile you got attacks in Russia and chem attacks in Syria that don't even make the front page of CNN other than a sidebar sentence anymore.
 :shaq2
XO

chronovore

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« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 02:04:10 AM by chronovore »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4655 on: April 05, 2017, 02:35:54 AM »
He was talking about the "nuclear option" which kills the filibuster, not regular rejection of nominees. Bork and Garland's nominations were killed the good old fashioned way, calendar management and public disinterest.

No Supreme Court nominee has ever been filibustered unless you're counting the shifting of Fortas to Chief Justice and even that's not what did him in, that was an intentional ploy to get him a plurality vote before he withdrew.

Estrada was the first federal judicial nominee at any level to be successfully filibustered. And we assume had a majority in the Senate. Though that couldn't be done now after the rule change.

I wonder if you could even get the votes to eliminate the multi-track system and require actual filibusters instead of just a threat.

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4656 on: April 05, 2017, 02:38:18 AM »
I don't get it. You quoted me and changed the font... how is that a post?

This is only slightly better than benji block quoting with no commentary like he's making a point.

Loosen up, love  :-*
I'm jokingly quoting for posterity.
I don't even disagree that Trump is doing terrible (to the point of losing soft supporters) or even that he might burn out at any moment now.

But claiming with absolute certainty he cannot win an election 40+ months away is... an arresting sight. Or cute. Especially on the heels on a vote he was never ever gonna win, trust me the [journalist/analyst/expert/pundit/poliGAFfer]. You might as well vow 10k$ if the first car you see in the morning 1000 days from now is green.

He hasn't even won in the wake of something like 9/11 or someone trying to burn the House so you can't even plead temporary insanity from citizen crowds.

(Still better than benji though :smug).
ὕβρις

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4657 on: April 05, 2017, 02:42:27 AM »
Bork and Garland's nominations were killed the good old fashioned way, calendar management and public disinterest.

wut


Brehvolution

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©ZH


I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4661 on: April 05, 2017, 12:46:30 PM »
Whoa. That's out of left field. Wonder if the Syria thing had anything to do with it.
que

samfish

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4662 on: April 05, 2017, 01:27:48 PM »
This is one victory for the adults, finally. I wonder who Bannon pissed off to get thrown off?
At any rate, this feels like we lost a good quarter of a secret me off the Doomsday Clock.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4663 on: April 05, 2017, 01:38:11 PM »
We're going to pretend that not holding a vote isn't the majority equivalent of a filibuster?

Why should the minority's tools be held to a different standard than the majority's? They could have done it clean and held a hearing, but voted him down on the floor.
Since when is the Senate majority under obligation to bring to the floor anything any size minority wants? The main advantage a majority wants to maintain is control of the schedule. Reid practically mastered the modern evolution of it, Senate version of Joe Cannon up in there.

All the shit I wrote is relevant too, because it all led directly to our current situation in a series of escalations.
Your history of the "nuclear option" started with Bork being defeated on the floor (not even in committee!) by a near supermajority and then jumps 20 years into the future to the first actual filibuster of a judicial nominee before finishing with one of many nominees that were allowed to have the clock run out on them.

I don't care for the "both sides" narrative but in the case of appointees, dismissals and the filibuster not only have both major parties but more importantly the same exact people have been swapping back and forth on the argument this century enough that it's maybe the lone good example of the trope.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4664 on: April 05, 2017, 03:16:48 PM »
I think when someone is asking a bit of a question (i.e. mentioning that they were trying to learn about something), and a rather technical one at that, those distinctions are important. Garland wasn't filibustered, the majority just never scheduled anything, which they do all the time on all sorts of stuff. A filibuster is a specific "power" and the "nuclear option" that Syph was inquiring about is related purely to that, there was no "nuclear option" (aka reducing to simple majority) to force Garland through on the say of the "minority."

If the majority never brings up Goursch and the term runs out, it's not a filibuster, it's a filibuster if the minority actively blocks him until the term runs out after he's been brought to a floor vote.

It's the same deal on legislation, the majority controls what comes to the floor. The distinction has been the notion that the President gets to appoint whoever he wants as its in his purview, while legislation is Congress' purview first. Only the former has never really been the case, especially at the end of Presidential terms even with friendly Congresses.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4665 on: April 05, 2017, 03:53:34 PM »
So now we're talking about "reasonable time" left and only Supreme Court seats? Which the triggered "nuclear option" doesn't even apply to.

The Fillmore nomination of Micou, Bader, and Bradford along with the Tyler nominations are the only really relevant instances because in all of them an opposing party in majority denied the President during an election year so as to wait him out. (All of those Tyler nominations were for two seats until Nelson got confirmed.) There's just as few instances of a leaving President facing a hostile Senate getting his nominee confirmed. (Nelson and Woods.)

The Fortas nomination was blocked by the President's own party (via filibuster!) which then let Nixon appoint Warren Burger instead. Also the first time a SC candidate agreed to testify to Congress. Much better precedent than Bork.


Steve Contra

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4667 on: April 05, 2017, 06:18:24 PM »
Wow yeah that's not what that letter says at all. Can that guy even read?
vin

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4668 on: April 05, 2017, 07:36:59 PM »
https://twitter.com/cspan/status/849670167646707713

what kind of libertarian wants to enact laws banning things? what a joke phony

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
Jazz‏ @circuitsurgeon  5h5 hours ago
Replying to @cspan @RandPaul @DHSgov
Search All Forigners Phones.
Search US Cutizens Phones If
They Traveled To A Known Terrorist Country.
#MAGA
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Michael Willette‏ @mjw09328  4h4 hours ago
Replying to @cspan @RandPaul @DHSgov
Yes. It is a priviledge to enter my country and we can make you do anything we want before we let you in
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Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4669 on: April 05, 2017, 07:57:00 PM »
$15 is stupid as a national minimum wage anyway. Sure it works in Seattle. It would work a lot less well in places with much lower average incomes and much lower cost-of-living.

Isn't the natural retort to this, why is $12 workable either? What makes $12 optimal and not $9 or $13.50?

In either case, it comes down to net benefit right?

The real question should be(at least to a liberal like myself) where should that baseline be set at to maximize the net benefit to workers while retaining American economic health and not crashing local economies?

Forgot to reply to this. It's kind of a Sorite's paradox, and I'm not sure what the methodology was to arrive at an ideal number, if there even is such a methodology. But studies of the minimum wage which have shown no significant job loss, like Card and Krueger, dealt with instances where the minimum wage increase wasn't that big as a percentage of the previous minimum. The data we have on very large increases are limited to high income areas. Increasing it from $7.25 to $12 is already a pretty massive increase in the states that don't have their own higher minimum wages. Now you're talking about something like a 105% increase in every state?

The higher minimum seems to be doing well in Seattle, but that's a high income city bolstered by a huge tech sector, so there's less price elasticity of demand for things like restaurants, coffee shops, retail outlets, etc. It's not realistic to assume that the low-end food and service sectors in places like Tulsa or Bloomington or Scranton could absorb those kinds of price increases. At least not based on current research.

I hate sounding like Thomas Sowell, but if you aren't careful with a policy like this, a lot of people could end up making zero dollars an hour.

We have other available policy mechanisms, like a larger EITC, which is less distortionary because the cost is borne more by high income taxpayers than middle or lower income restaurant customers.

TBH, I really just had an internet :snob moment yesterday and for some reason felt compelled to nitpick/devils advocate that rationale because it sort of eats away at the position it is trying to defend.

But to respond to what you just wrote. What you say above reads sound enough to me. Short of some pie-in-the-sky reform like a UBI or a Job Guarantee system that could make the minimum wage less pertinent, the evidence we have internationally, domestically, or academically on minimum wages imposed that are above 60% of the average income in an area are limited to non-existent. Which the $15 national minimum wage would push us past.

That seems to be the absolute ceiling on where most developed countries have set it nationally. So on the one hand it would be wrong to say going above that number is guaranteed to be harmful, but since there is little or no evidence on pushing past that barrier(or just doubling the minimum wage for that matter), even if phased in over a good number of years, it makes policies that do go past that threshold - and pretty far past it - obviously risky.

With that said, even at $12 an hour you would be theoretically pushing past that 60% threshold in many areas of the country. So the risk is still there.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 08:01:11 PM by Nola »

Steve Contra

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4670 on: April 05, 2017, 07:58:42 PM »
If I ever come close enough to sounding like Thomas Sowell that I have to say anything will one of you kill me.
vin



Brehvolution

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©ZH

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4674 on: April 06, 2017, 10:05:28 AM »
The dominos are falling like a house of cards. Checkmate.
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zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4675 on: April 06, 2017, 11:36:49 AM »
rub

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4676 on: April 06, 2017, 01:07:58 PM »
Quote
Senate Republicans invoked the "nuclear option" to gut the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees, paving the way for Neil Gorsuch's confirmation and ensuring that future high court nominees can advance in the Senate without clearing a 60-vote threshold.

The historic vote was strictly along party lines, with 52 Republicans in support.

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4677 on: April 06, 2017, 01:31:14 PM »
Bannon calling Kushner a "cuck" this is a fucking fever dream we're living in, right?  :lol

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4678 on: April 06, 2017, 02:16:33 PM »
the anti-democratic filibuster is no more, Donald Trump draining the swamp and returning the power to the people :rejoice

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Twilight in America
« Reply #4679 on: April 06, 2017, 02:23:41 PM »
the anti-democratic filibuster is no more, Donald Trump draining the swamp and returning the power to the people :rejoice

More like giving our government over to (((globalist))) cucks, smh.
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