US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[Nola]

I care very little about Trump's vacations, simply because the less he's involved in policy, the better I feel.

We say that, until that day Trump catches a triple bogey and a rain delay, then all of the sudden we're setting off a trade war and trying to order MOAB strikes with a hundred and forty characters.

[FStop7]

Over/under on Trump setting foot in the state of California by the end of 2017?  Within the first 6 months of 2018?

Kind of crazy that the President won't visit the most populous state in the country because he knows the protests will be epic.  Pussy.

[Mandark]

Not visiting the UK for the same reason. Guy does not play away games.

[Trent Dole]

What are the odds of any of the three west coast states? They all went to Hill.

[Boogie]

Not visiting the UK for the same reason. Guy does not play away games.

I doubt he'd be coming to Canada at all either if it weren't for the fact that we're hosting the G7 next year.

[benjipwns]

http://www.npr.org/2017/09/15/551163406/fox-news-has-yet-to-explain-what-what-wrong-in-seth-rich-story

On Monday, lawyers for Fox News must submit court filings addressing how the network mishandled a story about the unsolved killing of a young Democratic Party staffer named Seth Rich.

Assuming Fox answers those questions in any detail, it would be the first time the network has done so publicly.

Fox News was compelled to retract the story, which involved presidential politics, international intrigue and a man's murder.

When a story of this scale crumbles, most news organizations feel obligated to explain what happened and why.

Not so far at Fox, which stands apart journalistically from its competitors in many ways. Unlike the other networks or major newspapers, for example, Fox has no office or executive dedicated to standards and practices. That falls within the larger portfolio of the network's general counsel, Dianne Brandi.

And that gap is reflected in the response to the Rich story as well. In the four months since its retraction, Fox News has not apologized for what it reported. Nor has it explained what went wrong.

So this is why Hillary released her book, promoted Verrit and started her tour at this exact particular time.

[Human Snorenado]

I expect etoilet will pop in to take a victory lap and hand out a bunch of L's

[Joe Molotov]

It's almost like Fox isn't a real news channel. 

[Mandark]

In the past, Fox News' reporters have gotten indignant about being lumped in with their gasbag prime time hosts, and I remember the company defending those hosts by explaining that they weren't in the news division and wouldn't be held to the same standards, etc.

Really not a good look to avoid talking about the story after retracting it, especially given the subject matter and how Hannity kept running with it on their channel.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

For reals, how the hell has Fox dodged any sort of libel or defamation suit for this long?

this Seth Rich is really pushing it, right? Is such a thing more difficult to bring to fruition then what's available on any given week of Hannity? Because this shit looks like low hanging fruit to me.

[Mandark]

Libel laws in the US are pretty famously tilted towards the defendant. IIRC you have to prove that what they said was false, that they knew at the time it was false, and that they had malicious intent. So "our reporter actually believed it, cause she's dumb and a bad reporter" is a really solid defense in this case.

At the time, it was pretty weird how Fox handled it. There was no public defense of the story from the reporter or any spokespeople, even as other outlets contradicted it, no follow-up stories. They were just silent for a week, pulled the story down, then right back to silence.

[Great Rumbler]

Why would Fox News issue and apology/explanation? Their audience doesn't care that it was wrong, and probably doesn't even know.

[FStop7]

Putting Spicer on during the Emmys was lame as fuck.  Here's the white supremicist mouthpiece, folks!  Isn't he lovable? Please clap!

[Tristam]

I expect etoilet will pop in to take a victory lap and hand out a bunch of L's

Not gonna happen. He knew too much. RIP etoilet.

[Mandark]

I like this tweet a lot.

]https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/909853541006757889]

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/09/06/no-newsweeks-kurt-eichenwald-didnt-predict-hurricane-irma-math-11791

[curly]

eichenwald is the dude who got caught with hentai on his browser, right?

[zomgee]

eichenwald is the dude who got caught with hentai on his browser, right?

This is part of the problem.

[Mandark]

who explained that he was showing it to his family, yeah.

[seagrams hotsauce]

And the dude who got a grand jury indictment based on a gif. Friend of the famed Louise Mensch too

[Nola]

So, yeah, it seems like zombie-care is once again back from the dead:


Vox explaining the hurdles it needs to pass over.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/18/16327468/senate-republicans-obamacare-repeal-cassidy-graham-4-steps

I will say, the confidence people have that this will fizzle out has me a bit worried. Also seems like some of the moderates that were wishy washy are in the process of somehow convincing themselves an even shittier bill is now tolerable.

[agrajag]

Watch McCain vote for this shit now.

[Nola]

Watch McCain vote for this shit now.

If I'm remembering correctly, he initially signaled backing for it(probably because of his friendship with Graham), and then walked it back a little by saying he basically wants to see the meat of the plan, but then the Arizona governor now backs this plan, which apparently may or may not signal some influence on McCain, since apparently he used state opposition last time as a component of his dissent.

Would be kinda "mavericky" in the real John McCain way to ultimately go along with an even worse form of a bill/position he once claimed to be against.

[agrajag]

Watch McCain vote for this shit now.

If I'm remembering correctly, he initially signaled backing for it(probably because of his friendship with Graham), and then walked it back a little by saying he basically wants to see the meat of the plan, but then the Arizona governor now backs this plan, which apparently may or may not signal some influence on McCain, since apparently he used state opposition last time as a component of his dissent.

Would be kinda "mavericky" in the real John McCain way to ultimately go along with an even worse form of a bill/position he once claimed to be against.

His whole big thing is that he wants things done according to standard procedure, instead of ramming the bill through on a party line basis. He'd be quite hypocritical if he supports it now.

[Nola]

Watch McCain vote for this shit now.

If I'm remembering correctly, he initially signaled backing for it(probably because of his friendship with Graham), and then walked it back a little by saying he basically wants to see the meat of the plan, but then the Arizona governor now backs this plan, which apparently may or may not signal some influence on McCain, since apparently he used state opposition last time as a component of his dissent.

Would be kinda "mavericky" in the real John McCain way to ultimately go along with an even worse form of a bill/position he once claimed to be against.

His whole big thing is that he wants things done according to standard procedure, instead of ramming the bill through on a party line basis. He'd be quite hypocritical if he supports it now.

My hope is that you are right, he isn't that hypocritical, and that Graham will allow a CBO score(though seems like intentional or not, they are cutting that window of possibility really close without even having the legislation fully drafted and having til the 30th to vote on it). Since inevitably that CBO score will show roughly just as many millions losing coverage, since re-upholstering chairs on the Titanic isn't ever gonna stop the iceberg.

[agrajag]

The CBO said that they only have enough time to score how much money the repeal will save before they vote on it. All according to plan.

[Nola]

The CBO said that they only have enough time to score how much money the repeal will save before they vote on it. All according to plan.

That certainly doesn't raise my confidence

[chronovore]

Putting Spicer on during the Emmys was lame as fuck.  Here's the white supremicist mouthpiece, folks!  Isn't he lovable? Please clap!

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/sean-spicer-emmys-2017-cameo-normalization-thigh-high-politics-lauren-duca

TEEN FUCKING VOGUE calling the straight dope once again. How is it that Teen-freaking-Vogue is one of our best consistent sources of cultural insight?

[agrajag]

I can't be bothered to watch the Emmy's. What was the context of Spicer being there?

[chronovore]

I can't be bothered to watch the Emmy's. What was the context of Spicer being there?

You could RTFA and find out without watching the Emmys, but: He rolled out with Melissa McCarthy's SNL Spicer-Podium and mocked his own lies.

[VomKriege]

At the risk at sounding like a Gaffer, I also expected Spicer would lay low for a handful of months. Instead of that he's treated like an actor having left a popular show ? Also had the same feeling with Scaramucci. The media is enabling Trump dumbing down politics.

[benjipwns]

that anti-American Russian agent bigot illegal immigrant taco says NOTHING TO SEE HERE, TRUMP IS AMAZING yet again: https://theintercept.com/2017/09/18/sean-spicer-is-honored-because-as-bush-officials-showed-dc-elites-always-thrive/

spoiler (click to show/hide)

SEAN SPICER’S playful, glamorous appearance at last night’s Emmy Awards and being honored as a visiting fellow at Harvard’s Kennedy School (the honorific which the CIA vetoed for Chelsea Manning) has prompted a mix of shock and indignation. Former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau wrote: “Harvard fellowships, Emmy appearances, huge speaking fees: there’s just gonna be no penalty for working in Trump’s White House, huh?” Slate’s Jamelle Bouie added: “The degree to which Sean Spicer has faced no consequences is a glimpse into the post-Trump future.”

The speechwriter who churned out some of George W. Bush’s worst lies and most obscene justifications, David “Axis of Evil” Frum, is a senior editor at The Atlantic, a CNN contributor, and one of the most beloved and cited commentators by the self-styled, anti-Trump “Resistance.” With a straight face, he wrote a long, somber Atlantic article earlier this year, which the magazine put on its cover, in which he postured as someone qualified to warn of the dangers of authoritarianism when his only real qualification would be to write a manual on how to implement it.

In a recent interview with Vulture, the weekend MSNBC host Joy Reid, a former Obama campaign aide, gushed about the favorable views she now holds about, and the alignments she has now formed with, the Bush-era neocons who helped justify and usher in some of the most repugnant abuses and war crimes in American history:

Vulture: On the flip side, it has to be a bit heartening that some conservatives who used to be sort of MSNBC “villains” are now on your network trashing a Republican president.

Reid: One of the most amazing outcomes of the Trump administration is the number of neo-conservatives that are now my friends and I am aligned with. I found myself agreeing on a panel with Bill Kristol. I agree more with Jennifer Rubin, David Frum, and Max Boot than I do with some people on the far left. I am shocked at the way that Donald Trump has brought people together. [Laughs.]

So if initiating an aggressive war (which the Nuremberg Tribunal called “the supreme international crime”), instituting an international torture regime (which Ronald Reagan called “an abhorrent practice” that no circumstance can justify), and embracing the full model of presidential lawlessness does not result in ostracization, sanction, or exclusion from polite society, why on earth would anyone expect that Sean Spicer would face any sort of actual recrimination or consequence?

[close]

[benjipwns]

Also surprised Verrit doesn't have anything up for this yet:

But in an interview Monday with NPR's Terry Gross, Clinton raised that critique up a notch -- not only questioning the legitimacy of Trump's presidency but refusing to rule out the possibility of contesting the results if Russian collusion is proven by special counsel Bob Mueller.

Here's the full text of the back-and-forth, courtesy of CNN's Dan Merica:

Gross: I want to get back to the question, would you completely rule out questioning the legitimacy of this election if we learn that the Russian interference in the election is even deeper than we know now?
Clinton: No. I would not. I would say --
Gross: You're not going to rule it out?
Clinton: No, I wouldn't rule it out.

But Verrit commenters were already on the ball last week:

Lorie Gibbons
September 14, 2017 at 5:41 pm
Thank you Peter for your thorough analysis. I pray every day they find evidence of vote tampering/flipping so that they can #Nullify2016

Much of America owes Hillary a huge apology.

Marian G.
September 14, 2017 at 9:55 pm
I would die a happy person if evidence of vote tampering is discovered and I’m still a youngish person.
I have actually lit many candles in my local church that this will be discovered, not because it is a pie in the sky idea but I believe it to be true.

Judy Solomon
September 14, 2017 at 10:29 pm
Thank you, Peter. You wove together the sorry story of the 2016 election. Sadly and maddeningly true. I agree with Lorie above. #Nullify2016.

Myra Slotnick
September 15, 2017 at 9:25 pm
I will go to my grave knowing that the actual vote of the 2016 presidential election was manipulated. The statistics of Clinton’s advantage going into election day just DOES NOT ADD UP, namely Trump’s (Russia’s) virtually uniform 1% margin win in swing states.

Gina Gordon
September 15, 2017 at 10:20 pm
I am absolutely certain that Hillary would have won if the Russians didn’t hack into U.S. voting machines and flip votes electronically.

Bill Bertram
September 15, 2017 at 10:55 pm
You should see the statistical anomalies that Mike Farb has uncovered.

Kathy Shifter
September 15, 2017 at 11:42 pm
I agree 100%. The fraudulent results should be nullified and the Presidency should be assumed by Hillary. I will never stop praying for this outcome.

Helene Goldberg
September 16, 2017 at 12:39 am
I’ve read that there is no evidence of voting machines being hacked, but is there evidence of voting machines being examined? The reason nobody believed that Trump won, was that he didn’t.

Gloria Harmon
September 16, 2017 at 9:16 am
Thank you! This is the following-up question EVERY journalist/interviewer should ask and never does. They are all quick quick to mutter, ‘no evidence of vote tampering’ but, for unexplained reasons, never curious enough to ask if anyone has actually audited to machines!

Andrey
September 17, 2017 at 9:23 pm
Totally agree that fraudulent election results should be nullified. It was cheating. What do we do to athletes that cheat, what happened to Lance? What happens to any fraud in business, art, science? You cheat, you lose your medal, your award, your status. The election is such an important event, so why shouldn’t the same standard apply. It is getting more and more clear that Trump used performance enhancement in a way of Russian help. There is a reason most of us walk with after-election PTSD. To most reasonable people it is obvious that injustice or fraud was committed but some people want to us to look the other way and suppress it. That’s hard to if you have any sense of decency.

#NullifyElections #AssumePower #RESIST #SaveDemocracy

[Raist]

This blows my mind every fucking time.



Muhrica wtf are you doing.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

France, for comparison:

[close]

[zomgee]

It's not apples to apples. First off, the US doesn't even have a department called Autre.

[nudemacusers]

Yes it blows my mind when we compare total to discretionary budget 

[VomKriege]

I never looked at it like that but the US education budget proposal being only 150% or so the French equivalent is  . I guess private schools are a ton more prevalent but still.

[seagrams hotsauce]

I finally got around to listening to the new Death From Above record cuz I saw it on itunes and it's worse than I ever expected. Whoever itt said this was good is terrible and I hate them for tricking me into listening to it

[benjipwns]

Once the rest of the federal budget is factored in, and we include all the states and local governments, assuming Trump gets his defense bump, defense spending will be less than 15% of total government spending. (~12%)

Slashing it by a sixth to match France's 10% share is far too little for my tastes but it's a start I suppose.

Even letting it atrophy by lack of continual increase (aka slashing it to and through the bone, leaving America weak, disrespected, defenseless and demoralized as Obama did) is almost acceptable at this point.

I never looked at it like that but the US education budget proposal being only 150% or so the French equivalent is  . I guess private schools are a ton more prevalent but still.

That's the federal government which barely plays any financial role in K-12 public education. Total government spending on education for 2017 should exceed $1 trillion.

[Raist]

Yes it blows my mind when we compare total to discretionary budget 

The point being the enormous difference in the military vs. science+education ratio (6-7:1 for the US) that is never rebalanced to more reasonable levels with the President's discretionary (regardless of political affiliation, I don't think Obama's looked much different).

[benjipwns]

Education spending has exceeded military spending in probably every year since the end of the Cold War.

You're looking at one fraction of one fraction of the government spending in the U.S.

[Raist]

?



Is there something I'm missing?

[benjipwns]

Yes, state and local governments, which is where education spending is done.

[Raist]

Yes, state and local governments, which is where education spending is done.

Well I mean, there are regional and departmental spendings in France as well. Which likewise is focused on infrastructures, education and the like.

[VomKriege]

I never looked at it like that but the US education budget proposal being only 150% or so the French equivalent is  . I guess private schools are a ton more prevalent but still.

That's the federal government which barely plays any financial role in K-12 public education. Total government spending on education for 2017 should exceed $1 trillion.

Makes sense, thanks for the heads up. Federal government is alien to me () so I didn't think it through.

[benjipwns]

The government in the U.S. is expected to spend around $7 trillion this year, $4 trillion by the federal government and $3 trillion by state and local governments. Over $1 trillion will be spent on education, almost entirely by the latter. Conversely military spending will almost be done entirely by the former.

Back during the hellscape of Hillary Clinton's reign as First Lady 20 years ago, the federal government spent $2 trillion and state and local governments spent $2 trillion. (In constant dollars.) Yet we almost let her back into power if not for the timely intervention of our allies in Moscow.

[Raist]

Here's an example of a regional budget (Ile-de-France, essentially Paris+suburbs).

https://www.iledefrance.fr/sites/default/files/medias/2017/03/essentiel-2017-budget-fr.jpg


Nothing related to defense etc either, and for instance over 1B euros for education (regions focus on senior high schools primarily), 3rd largest just behind transports and employment.

That's just one of 18 regions - although this one has the largest population, obviously.

[benjipwns]

California is expected to spend $94 billion of its $532 billion on education. Texas will spend $98 billion of its $275 billion on education. Michigan will spend $23 billion of its $91 billion on education. (First is $164b, $57b and $25b on health care. Third is $86b, $24b and $13b on state employee pensions.)

Notice that both California and Texas alone spend more than the federal government does on education under the proposed budget. And they both nearly top the discretionary health care spending with Texas coming in just under.

[Raist]

Yes I get that. My point is that "but the states' budgets" doesn't make a whole lot of difference, since there is a very similar situation in France (with regions spending 25-30% of their budget on education).

The US federal and French National budgets are extremely different in terms of balance.

In other words, your government should start worrying less about having 1 soldier per 100km2 around the world, and more about the pitiful state of the USA's level of education and science funding.

[benjipwns]

Yes I get that. My point is that "but the states' budgets" doesn't make a whole lot of difference, since there is a very similar situation in France (with regions spending 25-30% of their budget on education).

The US federal and French National budgets are extremely different in terms of balance.

Except it does make a difference because education is not in the purview of the federal government like military is not in the purview of the state governments. Hence, why 95+% of all spending in either category falls within one or the other.

In other words, your government should start worrying less about having 1 soldier per 100km2 around the world, and more about the pitiful state of the USA's level of education and science funding.

I'm not sure how spending over $1 trillion a year on anything is a pitiful state of funding. Only four nations in the world spend more per-pupil on secondary education according to the OECD. And none of them should count as they're Luxembourg, Switerzland, Norway and Austria. France spends half what the United States does on primary education and 2/3rds to 3/4ths as much on secondary education. On all education (excluding research activities) France spends half what the U.S. does annually per student. Talk about pitiful.

In any case you're relating two issues that have nothing to do with each other and are under entirely different control systems as if they were somehow linked by a simple switch that a President could make.

This all ignores that the U.S. does not have the same budgetary or legislative process or system as France.

edit: not to mention the education system, which the French once boasted they could tell you at any time what page of what book any class in the country was on...while the U.S. "system" is not even fifty designs but thousands tenuously strung together in multiple ways

[nudemacusers]

Don’t worry raist, going by the gaf thread, americans dont understand the US budget either.

[benjipwns]

Don’t worry raist, going by the gaf thread, americans dont understand the US budget either.

Going by the U.S. Congress and/or President, Americans don't understand the budget either.

[Raist]

I said "pitiful level of education" (and science funding).
It's not a secret that by pretty much any metric the USA are ranking "shit tier" in the education department. Despite those sweet dollars invested, apparently.

As for my other point, I still stand by it. There is nothing preventing the Federal Government from rebalancing the budget, and having a bit more centralized control over education, as opposed to the current shitshow. I always thought the whole "well see it's different around here" argument was rubbish when it came to the lack of serious railway network in the US, I don't think it's any better here.

[TakingBackSunday]

trump is blowharding again today in case you were wondering

[agrajag]

U.S. education system sucks because you can opt out of all the hard classes. Free market economy is all about choices right 

[benjipwns]

As for my other point, I still stand by it. There is nothing preventing the Federal Government from rebalancing the budget, and having a bit more centralized control over education, as opposed to the current shitshow.

Other than the law of course.

And you say "rebalancing" like there was some past time in which military spending was not the dominant discretionary outlay of the federal government.

I'm not sure why more centralized control over education would improve it considering it would be placed under the charge of the same people you're complaining about not having their shit together.

I always thought the whole "well see it's different around here" argument was rubbish when it came to the lack of serious railway network in the US

Well that's probably because that person isn't aware that there already is a massive railway network in the United States, the largest in any nation by far. It's just like the other top five countries in a huge size nation so other more advanced forms of travel have been able to outmaneuver it as corporate subsides/monopolies for rail and limitations on those newer technologies were withdrawn. But it still has highly dominant areas like in Canada.

[Mandark]

In any case you're relating two issues that have nothing to do with each other and are under entirely different control systems as if they were somehow linked by a simple switch that a President could make.

Bro that's your exact argument for not doing shit about climate change.

[Mandark]

Sanders-esque absolutism is going to be the death of the left.

Bernie Sanders voted for basically every major "incrementalist" liberal piece of legislation in the Senate.

[Nola]

In any case you're relating two issues that have nothing to do with each other and are under entirely different control systems as if they were somehow linked by a simple switch that a President could make.

Bro that's your exact argument for not doing shit about climate change.

Is Benji one of those libertarians/contrarians that contorts himself over addressing the problem of market externalities? 

Say it ain't so Benji!!

[benjipwns]

I don't know how much clearer I can be that while it may useful shorthand I'm not a libertarian as I don't support setting up a corporation with a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. Especially not for the purposes of financially supporting the proponents of some apocalyptic death cult in their religious agenda.

I have no idea what Mandark's cowardly, vile and worthless post is supposed to mean with the context of what he quoted so I take my fill of all your filth and exit.

[chronovore]

https://news.vice.com/story/here-are-some-pictures-of-john-kelly

…at the UN speech.