I wholly recognize the DNC has it's failings as does the democratic party but those of you on the left ignoring how evil, vile and depraved the current administration is with weak false equivalence and lamenting prior admins failures as being the same are fools.
Take care of the demons you can first, then focus on the sinners next. The DNC and the domestic issues within our own pale in comparison to the failures of the RNC and the GOP.
The difference is they now turned it on the US. Which is not something that is a nothing-burger IMO. If other countries are the map to what Russia seeks in America, that is not something you can just scoff at and brush off. It is a major threat, which is different from saying it is the ultra causation to Trump's ascent.
but it really just talks around the core issue here. Which is Russia's escalatory actions and how to deal with them.
Except I have no reason to believe any of this as being true. Especially considering the last near hundred years of Russian foreign policy and actions within the United States. They infiltrated our intelligence agencies and weren't caught for decades. Russian spy larping was caught multiple times this century, most infamously Anna Chapman's Illegals Program. An incident which suggests we're just getting better at picking up on it. Not that there's any actual increase in demonstrable ability.
Remember, the same people making these claims have a vested interest in there always being justifications for their neverending war.
You think the asylum he got didn't come with strings attached?
Ya'll really are gullible fools if you think Russia's interference in 2016 was minor or simple distraction by democrats for losing.
If it was so major, why hasn't any evidence...nay, even claims or accusations...come out about what exactly they did that was so major?
Why would Snowden want to be in Russia practically as a prisoner or even mostly free? Plus where else is he going to go?
I mean yes America has it's faults, and we can and we should try to fix them and never fall into our old ways. That said to compare our crimes as a nation to what Putin and the Checkist are doing is naive at best and showing ulterior motives at worst.
The Iraq war was worse and more destructive than anything perpetrated by the Russian government on domestic American politics. It's basically impossible to argue against that.
I hope that's a concrete example of part of what benji's trying to get across.
I maintain it's up to a nations people do decide their fate; while yes Americans have done far worse to their own democracy it's natural that would happen.
Undue influence on the scale of the Russians is morally wrong. And I condemn the U.S. for having done it in the past.
You completely missed the point. A Presidential administration, their entire party, most of the opposition party, and large chunks of the media sold a war based on lies. I think that probably has done a lot more to erode the trust in American "democracy and institutions" than Russians posting stuff on the internet could ever do.
The most transparent administration in history led the largest crackdown on whistleblowers in modern history. They not only continued and expanded illegal domestic spying, but the DNI perjured himself in Congress over it. And then to top it all off the President declared he had the authority to murder American citizens in which their due process was himself (because he's "really good at killing people") and this was his defense as to having done it to two American citizens. All while assisting in the overthrowing of regimes across the Middle East including ones that were cooperated in turning over WMD, drawing red lines in the sand that were then ignored, expanding the ongoing global war to even more battlefields and playing a role in any nation that has an election.
Toss in all the domestic issue anger, such as bailouts, no prosecutions on Wall Street, everything regarding immigration, etc. and you can see why Americans might be lacking faith or trust in their institutions or democracy at a level that the Russians tossing more garbage into the mow of the internet does not signal any kind of actual threat on the scale that Americans themselves pose.
