Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 7186660 times)

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Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11640 on: December 06, 2017, 12:50:29 AM »
itt, we see once again that nothing is as fragile as the straight white male ego, thank you etoilet
yar

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11641 on: December 06, 2017, 12:52:14 AM »
ANWER ME ANSWER ME

*answers*

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11642 on: December 06, 2017, 12:52:54 AM »
itt, we see once again that nothing is as fragile as the straight white male ego, thank you etoilet
Here etoilet, let me save you the effort.

"Ahem....something something human snorenado something something shit something something most something on the forum."

Done and done. No more need for you to post.

edit: damn it! I was too slow!!
que

CatsCatsCats

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11643 on: December 06, 2017, 12:54:38 AM »
Breh your answer does not provide a point of view that explains my only interaction with the ordeal, which has been angry shut in white boys losing their shit

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11644 on: December 06, 2017, 12:55:22 AM »
You better denounce me and pray to their god, too.

You don't understand the hell you brought upon yourself.

After all, I did prove them wrong. No sinner greater.

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11645 on: December 06, 2017, 12:59:16 AM »
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Fixed.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11646 on: December 06, 2017, 12:59:53 AM »
You better denounce me and pray to their god, too.

You don't understand the hell you brought upon yourself.

After all, I did prove them wrong. No sinner greater.

WORDS AND DEEDS

Freyj

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11647 on: December 06, 2017, 01:36:04 AM »
A few things. The initial drama of a journalist sleeping with a game dev. The discovery of bigger conflicts of interest.

Oh my god who gives a god damn?

The biggest game retailer in the country owns and runs GameInformer and you’re worried about who fucked who half a decade ago? Let us all weep for the lost sanctity of gaming journalism where AAA loot box ridden trash gets 10/10s every day.

Dumbest time for nerd shit.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11648 on: December 06, 2017, 01:45:46 AM »
Graduated on the Deans list from a prestigious college.
Need PD to place this within the context of the masters degree ranking system.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11649 on: December 06, 2017, 01:48:19 AM »
God fucking damnit, etoilet is like King Midas in reverse, everything he touches turns to shit

So he's a Donald Trump?  :trumps

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11650 on: December 06, 2017, 02:00:36 AM »
I'm too lazy to look it up but is there anything in the presidential succession act that says it has to be applied if the president goes to jail?
I would assume those empowered under the 25th Amendment would decide that the President is no longer able to perform his duties.

Though I don't see why he couldn't.

Hell, probably most White House staffs in history would have loved that kind of control over their President.

http://communicationtheory.org/the-johari-window-model/

Learn this.
Quote
American psychologists Joseph Luft and Harry Ingham developed this model in 1955. The idea was derived as the upshot of the group dynamics in University of California and was later improved by Joseph Luft. The name ‘Johari’ came from joining their first two names.
Somebody let Harry get a little carried away in his "half" of the name.

On another note, seems like the right-wing echo chambers have really latched onto Mueller firing Peter Strzok to spin a whole slew of conspiracies and advance the whole "partisan witch hunt" nonsense.

It's in the wheelhouse of the sort of Seth Rich, Uranium One type conspiracies I can see getting a Trump tweet bump or two in the next few days(If it hasn't already and I missed it).  Which of course probably just moves us a little closer to the fairly probable Trump firing of Mueller as his base and media continues to radicalize on it.
Look at the typical lieberal fake news reporter leaving out Andrew Weissmann, not to mention all the people who sent e-mails supporting Sally Yates, NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT THE FBI KNEW ABOUT THE TARMAC MEETING WITHIN EIGHT MINUTES AND COMEY WITHIN A HALF HOUR, and then the FBI tried to "Seth Rich" (their official term) the whistleblowers who exposed that and that Comey EXONERATED Hillary Clinton before ever starting the e-mail investigation THAT HE PUT STRZOK ON WHO ALTERED THE ANNOUNCEMENT, all while Hillary was buying a Dossier from the Russians to try and influence the 2016 election and selling Uranium One at the same time!!!

YES I LISTENED TO AN HOUR OF SEAN HANNITY TODAY WHILE SICK WHY DO YOU ASK

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11651 on: December 06, 2017, 02:10:36 AM »
Goober Grape discourse :holeup
Hi

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11652 on: December 06, 2017, 02:17:51 AM »
Benji, you spend so much time listening to demagogues and partisans for the lulz, do you actually have any time at the end of the day to consume content you appreciate and agree with? (and if so, what)

Presuming that Benji agrees with people.  :ufup

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11653 on: December 06, 2017, 02:28:30 AM »
So I was watching segments about Trump's Lawyer John Dowd and it was bothering me that he reminds me of something, like a cartoon character, but I couldn't place it. And it just finally hit me. Dude looks just like Ben Guadinaros, a pod racer from The Phantom Menace!






It's like poetry, it rhymes

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11654 on: December 06, 2017, 02:32:52 AM »
Goober Grape discourse :holeup

I have to be honest, to this day I still don't know what the fuck it was all about.

Outside of the fact white males that like to use racial epithets and harass women in game chats really seemed to get passionate over it, and GAF would lose its collective mind over it and play 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon to every ill in America with it.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11655 on: December 06, 2017, 02:37:34 AM »
Dodd could also be a stand in for Droopy the dog.


agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11656 on: December 06, 2017, 02:38:52 AM »
Goober Grape discourse :holeup

I have to be honest, to this day I still don't know what the fuck it was all about.

Outside of the fact white males that like to use racial epithets and harass women in game chats really seemed to get passionate over it, and GAF would lose its collective mind over it and play 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon to every ill in America with it.

I feel like I'm groundhog daying here because this happened before, but I read etiolate's lengthy explanation and I still don't get it. A bunch of basement dwellers reeed over a series of unrelated events which resulted in doxxing and harassing of people. That's the most sense I can make of it.


Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11657 on: December 06, 2017, 02:40:18 AM »
Goober Grape discourse :holeup

I have to be honest, to this day I still don't know what the fuck it was all about.

Outside of the fact white males that like to use racial epithets and harass women in game chats really seemed to get passionate over it, and GAF would lose its collective mind over it and play 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon to every ill in America with it.

I feel like I'm groundhog daying here because this happened before, but I read etiolate's lengthy explanation and I still don't get it. A bunch of basement dwellers reeed over a series of unrelated events which resulted in doxxing and harassing of people. That's the most sense I can make of it.

Women started talking in gaming culture.

Chaos Reigns.  :doge

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11658 on: December 06, 2017, 02:40:33 AM »
  :doge

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11659 on: December 06, 2017, 02:48:05 AM »
Benji, you spend so much time listening to demagogues and partisans for the lulz, do you actually have any time at the end of the day to consume content you appreciate and agree with? (and if so, what)
probably? i dunno, seems more unnecessary? prefer coverage of different things than people who should know better taking seriously the nonsense of the beltway obsessives cycle

plus know thy enemy and all

spoiler (click to show/hide)
or historical things, or like contemporary accounts of past beltway nonsense

or reading about double agents on wikipedia because i looked up one from a book and there was a list of them

i suppose i'm working my way forward in the canons...you wouldn't believe what this LBJ dude is doing to our civil liberties, and this war built on lies! And Nixon might be the one to run against him?!? Hopefully there's a third party option in 1968 worth supporting, I bet people are fed up with the duopoly for good this time!!!
[close]

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11660 on: December 06, 2017, 02:49:25 AM »
Presuming that Benji agrees with people.  :ufup
I DO TOO!

bluemax

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11661 on: December 06, 2017, 03:41:08 AM »
A few things. The initial drama of a journalist sleeping with a game dev. The discovery of bigger conflicts of interest. Then the censoring of the discussion about it on various platforms. The Gamers are Dead aticles ignited it the most, since it was a talentless group of writers acting like their audience was human filth in comparison to them. Nerds are apt to be exploited financially, but if you treat them in any way like they got treated growing up? Prepare for some angry motherfuckers. And the superiority felt by these media folk mostly came from the Social Studies Warrior cult mentality, which most people reject. (That's not an alright thing. Everyone hates them, because they act like twats.) Within this, there was trolling, harassing and doxxing that went back and forth on every side but comitted by a small minority and often by outsiders. Something a troll loves is to attack someone and have the person they attack blame it on someone else. The FBI wasted money investigating all this, found a bunch of nothing besides a few SA forum goers copy-pasting memes to people.

It was Gamers are over, cmon: https://archive.is/l1kTW

Also people getting mad enough to threaten to kill someone over this? Good grief.
NO

Oblivion

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11662 on: December 06, 2017, 05:15:04 AM »
Goober Grape discourse :holeup

I have to be honest, to this day I still don't know what the fuck it was all about.

Outside of the fact white males that like to use racial epithets and harass women in game chats really seemed to get passionate over it, and GAF would lose its collective mind over it and play 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon to every ill in America with it.

I feel like I'm groundhog daying here because this happened before, but I read etiolate's lengthy explanation and I still don't get it. A bunch of basement dwellers reeed over a series of unrelated events which resulted in doxxing and harassing of people. That's the most sense I can make of it.

Yeah, it's been 3 years, and I'm still not exactly clear on what exactly "ethics in journalism" is supposed to mean. As someone mentioned, I figured this might encompass the issue of the biggest gaming retailer owning one of the biggest gaming magazines, but I've never seen a single article on that (or any issue similar to that) on Breitbart. On the other hand, I have seen thousands of articles complaining about women and minorities in the industry.  :thinking

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11663 on: December 06, 2017, 08:22:22 AM »

You're a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow if you really think it was that. It was lied about by the press it was criticizing. You can think gaming press is too much of a joke to care about, but if that's so

I'll posit that the distinguished mentally-challenged person is the one who engages more than 10 minutes of their life on this topic.

Guess which group you fall in?

--- // ---

Moving on ..



Quote
A rep for Alabama GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore said Tuesday that the women who accused him of sexual misconduct are “criminals” who are “seeking revenge” — arguing that there were plenty of “non-accusers that did not accuse the judge of any sexual misconduct.”



agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11664 on: December 06, 2017, 09:40:42 AM »
Roy Moore has close to eight billion non-accusers. His nine accusers are statistical noise.

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11665 on: December 06, 2017, 09:44:34 AM »
It's one of the dumbest excuses I've ever heard a person say out loud.
©ZH

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11666 on: December 06, 2017, 10:12:43 AM »
Quote
Doug Jones' new campaign slogan should be, "Doug Jones - Not kidding around"

:noah
©ZH

zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11667 on: December 06, 2017, 11:37:25 AM »
Let's dust off the Anti-Pinkerton Act.
rub

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11668 on: December 06, 2017, 11:47:50 AM »
Read about that a couple of days ago. If this shit is true, Pompeo needs to resign from the CIA.

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11669 on: December 06, 2017, 11:58:43 AM »
I don't know how it's even legally possible for the office of president to maintain an unaccountable network of spies.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Other than the CIA.
[close]
:whew
que

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11670 on: December 06, 2017, 12:08:10 PM »
SOOOOORRRROOOOOOOOS

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11671 on: December 06, 2017, 12:13:18 PM »
The burner was an Obamaphone, supplied by ACORN.
©@©™

Brehvolution

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©ZH


kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11674 on: December 06, 2017, 01:44:12 PM »
Starting to sound like maybe Flynn has some information about this whole Russia thing.

That McMaster Soros thing sounds like a fever dream conspiracy to get one of the more level-headed members of the administration out of their position, probably to replace them with a total incompetent like KT McFarland.

Syph

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11675 on: December 06, 2017, 06:06:15 PM »
Jerusalem
H I S T O R I C
 :preach

XO

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11676 on: December 06, 2017, 06:22:03 PM »
Franken gotta go

Check that date. DNC needs to listen to PD.

Trent Dole

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Hi

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11678 on: December 06, 2017, 06:56:15 PM »
Franken gotta go

Check that date. DNC needs to listen to PD.

When was the last time a noteworthy public person was accused of sexual assault by ONE person? There's (almost) always someone else. When the Moore story first broke it was so obvious that more women would come out, and the same applies here.

That's why defending these dudes is ludicrous. If you jump on the defense bandwagon after accuser #1...accuser #2 shows up a week later. Then accuser #3. etc.
:snoop

I get the impression democrats (and republicans) are afraid of the precedent this could set. Accusations are hurled, a senator is forced to resign, and the governor calls for a special election. In this case, democrats have nothing to worry about because Minnesota is a blue state with a democrat governor and a deep bench of replacements. But what if this happened to a democrat senator in a state with a republican governor? Suddenly you're looking at the possibility of losing a vote in congress. Even still, that political calculus is NOT more important than doing the right thing. He gotta go and shoulda been gone.


010

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11679 on: December 06, 2017, 07:16:43 PM »
I get the impression democrats (and republicans) are afraid of the precedent this could set. Accusations are hurled, a senator is forced to resign, and the governor calls for a special election. In this case, democrats have nothing to worry about because Minnesota is a blue state with a democrat governor and a deep bench of replacements. But what if this happened to a democrat senator in a state with a republican governor? Suddenly you're looking at the possibility of losing a vote in congress. Even still, that political calculus is NOT more important than doing the right thing. He gotta go and shoulda been gone.
giving em a scalp will just encourage them to drag more hundred dollar bills through trailer parks :ufup

it's almost like you don't want Democratic men (especially minority icons like John Conyers and their chosen heirs*) to ever hold political power again :thinking

*
Quote
The son of scandal-plagued Michigan Rep. John Conyers was arrested, but not charged, for body slamming and stabbing his girlfriend in California earlier this year, records show.

John Conyers III, a Detroit hedge fund manager possibly contending for his father's vacant Congress seat, was cuffed at a Los Angeles residence on Feb. 15, according to case paperwork obtained by the Daily News. His girlfriend, who is not identified in the paperwork, had called the cops after her 27-year-old beau grew violent and accused her of cheating on him.

The girlfriend told investigators that Conyers “body slammed her on the bed and then on the floor where he pinned her down and spit on her.”

After the girlfriend tried to call the cops, an enraged Conyers allegedly took her phone and chased her into the kitchen where she grabbed a knife and screamed at him to leave. Instead, she said, Conyers took the knife and swung it at her, slashing her arm.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11680 on: December 06, 2017, 07:30:28 PM »
Franken gotta go

Check that date. DNC needs to listen to PD.

When was the last time a noteworthy public person was accused of sexual assault by ONE person? There's (almost) always someone else. When the Moore story first broke it was so obvious that more women would come out, and the same applies here.

That's why defending these dudes is ludicrous. If you jump on the defense bandwagon after accuser #1...accuser #2 shows up a week later. Then accuser #3. etc.
:snoop

I get the impression democrats (and republicans) are afraid of the precedent this could set. Accusations are hurled, a senator is forced to resign, and the governor calls for a special election. In this case, democrats have nothing to worry about because Minnesota is a blue state with a democrat governor and a deep bench of replacements. But what if this happened to a democrat senator in a state with a republican governor? Suddenly you're looking at the possibility of losing a vote in congress. Even still, that political calculus is NOT more important than doing the right thing. He gotta go and shoulda been gone.

At this point he absolutely should, and for his own self-preservation should of done it at least a week ago, if not sooner since he knew this was the possible outcome.

At the same time, there has to be a set of standards and process that Democrats and the left ultimately broadly adhere to when these allegations crop up. I still would advice against just assuming more will come out, therefore operate as such, since it is a really faulty decision-making tool. It's the sort of mental shortcut where people start decrying others as alt-right simply because they share one viewpoint that can be loosely construed as in that wheelhouse, so therefore assume they share additional views. As a certain message board likes to point out, mobs aren't always good at using those tools effectively.

On the other hand, Pelosi's approach to start questioning the victims was really damaging, and absolutely the wrong way to go. The representatives have to figure out a set of standards and principles because the other side is never going to have them and if you want to genuinely be a voice for this issue, you can't run around using the Republican's tools. Having your heart in the right place means jack shit when the tough choice comes and you skirt.

Anyways, if the guy has any chance at a future he should own up to it, stay in the public life in other ways and try and be the type of rare person that takes ownership  of his actions, takes his licks, and tries to be proactive and helpful where he can.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11681 on: December 06, 2017, 07:41:10 PM »
John Conyers sexually harassed my cousin almost 20 years ago. But I can happily report, Benji, that she also met John Dingell and said he was very nice/funny.
010

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11682 on: December 06, 2017, 07:42:23 PM »
The first accusation against Franken you could maaaaybe paint as an isolated incident, ie an entertainer pushing someone's boundaries for the sake of a gag, rather than his own gratification. When the next woman said he grabbed her ass during a photo and he came back with "oh gosh I don't remember" that was a wrap.

Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11683 on: December 06, 2017, 07:44:29 PM »
I think largely, the dem power structure in the Senate did the right thing. Ask for an ethics investigation, sit and wait for more accusers (oh hey, what do you know, there were more accusers) and now we're at the "demanding his resignation" phase of the process.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/schumer-calls-for-al-franken-to-resign

When your caucus leader is joining in the chorus, you're toast.
yar

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11684 on: December 06, 2017, 07:49:24 PM »
Kirsten Gillibrand slowly eliminating her opposition...but she'll need a different tactic if she hopes to stop 2020 Democratic frontrunner Terry McAuliffe.

Unless that alligator is still alive and reveals there's more to that tale.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11685 on: December 06, 2017, 08:03:03 PM »
I think largely, the dem power structure in the Senate did the right thing. Ask for an ethics investigation, sit and wait for more accusers (oh hey, what do you know, there were more accusers) and now we're at the "demanding his resignation" phase of the process.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/schumer-calls-for-al-franken-to-resign

When your caucus leader is joining in the chorus, you're toast.

Yeah, I think by and large, if I'm not nitpicking, given the relative newness of society giving a shit about this writ large(well, at least left-leaning society and Republicans when it is politically advantageous) they have put together a decent roadmap to improve upon.

On the flip side, Republicans have also given a powerful roadmap of how to exploit it when needed, and power through it with deny deny, deny. Of course helps when you have a massive propaganda structure to back you up and a shameless leader.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11686 on: December 06, 2017, 08:13:22 PM »
Ah, yes, you're talking about the Clinton/Weissmann/Strzok/Franken/Comey/Weinstein/Loretta Lynch On The Tarmac/Russian Dossier/Obama/ABC/MSDNC/Clinton/Soros machine I see.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 08:19:18 PM by benjipwns »

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11687 on: December 06, 2017, 08:34:31 PM »
I still would advice against just assuming more will come out, therefore operate as such, since it is a really faulty decision-making tool. It's the sort of mental shortcut

It's actually pretty statistically sound, as heuristics go.

Using this* as an example, while over a third of rapists are one-time offenders, less than 10% of all rapes are committed by those men. A victim coming forward is super likely to have been attacked by a serial offender.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
*This is a quick google result to grab some actual numbers, but the point stands if you accept that 1) serial offenders make up a significant portion of all offenders and 2) they average at least 5-10 incidents each. Open to other data, but this jibes roughly with what I'd expect.
[close]

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11688 on: December 06, 2017, 09:28:43 PM »
I still would advice against just assuming more will come out, therefore operate as such, since it is a really faulty decision-making tool. It's the sort of mental shortcut

It's actually pretty statistically sound, as heuristics go.

Using this* as an example, while over a third of rapists are one-time offenders, less than 10% of all rapes are committed by those men. A victim coming forward is super likely to have been attacked by a serial offender.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
*This is a quick google result to grab some actual numbers, but the point stands if you accept that 1) serial offenders make up a significant portion of all offenders and 2) they average at least 5-10 incidents each. Open to other data, but this jibes roughly with what I'd expect.
[close]

My original, longer post, mentioned that while it is probably good as a 85-95% mental shortcut generally(more or less depending on who is using it) - and perhaps heavily so in male sexual assault cases if your study on rape can be more broadly interpreted - that when it comes to something like publicly elected officials, and public process, that 5-10% gap plus context should be accounted for in whatever process. Normative or otherwise.

And I was gonna point out that the initial context of Franken's was somewhat unique in that he reached out to the woman and the woman had forgiven him(albeit after the fact). And the whole first two accusations were a bit of a hard call compared to other recent ones.

In personal message board banter? Yeah, whatever, heuristics galore. We all sort of do it. Its unavoidable. in terms of a structural process? I don't think beyond a reasonable doubt is needed, but at least something that inches toward a normative process of deliberation that addresses context and establishes something like at least a preponderance of certainty.

 I think as Human Snorenado pointed out, I think broadly they handled this better than I was initially expecting(Pelosi notwithstanding): trust the victim, start an ethics investigation(which as a side note probably needs to be revamped significantly after reading up on it during all this), and wait to see what evidence follows, as more evidence arises, calls for resignation become pretty justifiable as it was with Franken. And frankly, if I'm honest, if a few innocent people get shamed out wrongly or from over-correction of a systemic problem, I wouldn't go red-pilling over it.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11689 on: December 06, 2017, 10:00:33 PM »
Quote
A Democratic official who has spoken to Al Franken and key aides says Franken will resign his Minnesota Senate seat on Thursday, the official tells MPR News.

The official spoke to Franken and separately to Franken's staff. A staff member told the official that Franken had gone to his Washington home to discuss his plans with family.
Quote
Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton is expected to appoint his lieutenant governor and close ally, Tina Smith, to Al Franken’s seat if the Democratic senator resigns on Thursday, three people familiar with the Democratic governor’s thinking said.

But that appointment would be just the start of an upheaval in Minnesota. Part of the reason Smith could be heading to the Senate, the sources said, is that she has indicated no interest in running for Congress in the past and would not run for the remainder of Franken’s term, which expires in 2020, in a 2018 special election. That would clear the way for a wide open Democratic primary next year if Franken steps down.
Quote
Earlier in the afternoon, a Warren aide told the Globe that the senator had talked to Franken privately and told him he should step down.

Though Franken's office is denying:
https://twitter.com/SenFranken/status/938532408525246464

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11690 on: December 06, 2017, 10:08:03 PM »
Meanwhile the Hillary Clinton scandal continues: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/06/over-10000-texts-between-ex-mueller-officials-found-after-discovery-anti-trump-messages.html
Quote
Justice Department officials are reading through “over 10,000 texts” between FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, Fox News has learned, after it emerged Strzok was removed from Special Counsel Robert Mueller's Russia probe following the discovery of anti-Trump messages between them.

Department of Justice officials told Fox News they are in the process of going through the texts so they can hand them over to the House Intelligence Committee.

Strzok, who was an FBI counterintelligence agent, had worked on the Mueller probe, but was reassigned to the FBI’s human resources division after the discovery of anti-Trump text messages with Page, with whom he was having an affair. Page was briefly on Mueller’s team, but since has returned to the FBI.
Quote
The review process comes as the committee also threatens to move forward with a contempt resolution against top DOJ and FBI officials barring an imminent breakthrough — after the agencies did not comply with a deadline to hand over long-sought information that goes well beyond text messages.

Strzok is a focus of their efforts. House investigators have long regarded him as a key figure in the chain of events when the bureau, in 2016, received the infamous anti-Trump "dossier" and launched a counterintelligence investigation into Russian meddling in the election that ultimately came to encompass FISA surveillance of a Trump campaign associate.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., has sought documents and witnesses from the DOJ and FBI to determine what role, if any, the dossier played in the move to direct the surveillance.

Strzok briefed the committee on Dec. 5, 2016, sources said. But within months of that session House Intelligence Committee investigators were contacted by an informant suggesting that there was “documentary evidence” that Strzok was purportedly obstructing the House probe into the dossier.
Quote
Fox News has learned that Strzok also oversaw the bureau’s interviews with ousted National Security Advisor Michael Flynn – who pleaded guilty Friday to lying to FBI investigators in the Russia probe.

He also was present during the FBI’s July 2016 interview with Hillary Clinton
This is why we need a special prosecutor investigating Hillary Clinton, Sean was right that this (Hillary Clinton) should be a top priority investigation, investigating Hillary Clinton that is.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
He actually was arguing for that the other day and even his guest from Judicial Watch or whatever was like "umm maybe not? just let her go man, focus on the now"
[close]
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 10:13:02 PM by benjipwns »

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11691 on: December 06, 2017, 10:58:56 PM »
But the emails!

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11692 on: December 06, 2017, 11:57:32 PM »
Interesting take from Preet Bharara.



Quote
“We know from public reports that Flynn has a ton of criminal exposure, and yet he’s pleading guilty to a relatively minor crime,” Savannah Law School professor Andy Wright told my colleague Sean Illing. “I’m confident Flynn is singing like a bird to Mueller.” (Eight other law professors made similar arguments to Illing.)

Quote
Not so sure: Preet Bharara, the former US attorney for the Southern District of New York who was fired by President Trump earlier this year.

Quote
“I don’t know that I believe that,” Bharara said.

In particular, Bharara disputes the common argument that the relatively light charge against Flynn (one false statements count) clearly shows he must have agreed to provide especially valuable information to Mueller’s investigation. (Flynn’s clearly offering some information, but the question is just how important it will be.)

Bharara refers to his own experience supervising similar high-profile investigations and prosecutions. “When we had evidence against somebody and wanted them to flip, we made them plead guilty to every bad act that they had ever done,” Bharara said. “Especially if we were later gonna be alleging other people had engaged in that activity as well.”

Doing that, Bharara argues, makes a witness like Flynn more credible in court if he has to testify against someone else. “Otherwise, the only thing the jury will know for a fact about your witness is that he is an admitted, convicted liar,” he said.

So what does Bharara think could be going on? One possibility, he suggests, is that Mueller doesn’t have anything else on Flynn that might stand up in court: “People need to really consider the possibility that this might be it.”

But Bharara also suggests another scenario: that Mueller is “holding back on other charges to which Michael Flynn will plead guilty if and when they form the basis of charging some other folks.”

That is — certain potential charges against Flynn could implicate others in Trump’s orbit as well, and Mueller’s team just isn’t ready to make those charges yet (and might never be).


https://www.vox.com/2017/12/5/16735480/michael-flynn-plea-preet-bharara

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/special-episode-michael-flynns-guilty-plea

in the podcast he offers three possible scenarios that include the initial consensus many observers have speculated. But he is pulling form his own experience and why he is hesitant to jump on board with that. Though he doesn't mention Pap, and I wonder how two light deals would change his perception and if he would see it as a trend? He doesn't mention it I don't think.

I would be curious to hear from anyone more familiar with the Sammy Gravano deal. I know he got off incredibly easy considering 19 murders and all. But i think he did admit to taking part in them, so that might add to what Preet is saying.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 12:08:55 AM by Nola »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11693 on: December 07, 2017, 12:24:18 AM »
You can't look at prior cases because they likely all had crimes alleged triggering the investigation. Mueller's empowering as special counsel came with no crime to investigate, possibly for the first time in history (I couldn't find any other special counsels or IC's with such a grant in a cursory search), he's to determine if there was "collusion" and if there even were any crimes committed.

I've seen it suggested that even Flynn's obviously dirty dealings with Turkey may not violate any laws or not violate any laws to the clear extent that it's worth prosecuting.

Like I said, based on the public information Flynn's deal makes no sense for either side as part of something leading to testimony regarding a conspiracy of further crimes. And like Preet, I noted the oddity of having your "star" witness plead guilty to lying at least three times to the government (not to mention the news stories where Flynn is alleged to have mislead Pence, etc.) before he testifies.

Which is why one scenario I'm not tossing out is that Mueller's essentially done, and this is part of wrapping up with handful of tiny procedural crimes found, before writing his report indicating that there's no vast criminal or even shady international conspiracy to uncover, especially since Hillary Clinton's e-mails, DNC Debates/Primaries Theft and murder of Seth Rich are all well known crimes she committed and personally ordered.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11694 on: December 07, 2017, 12:31:04 AM »
You can't look at prior cases because they likely all had crimes alleged triggering the investigation. Mueller's empowering as special counsel came with no crime to investigate, possibly for the first time in history (I couldn't find any other special counsels or IC's with such a grant in a cursory search), he's to determine if there was "collusion" and if there even were any crimes committed.

I've seen it suggested that even Flynn's obviously dirty dealings with Turkey may not violate any laws or not violate any laws to the clear extent that it's worth prosecuting.

Like I said, based on the public information Flynn's deal makes no sense for either side as part of something leading to testimony regarding a conspiracy of further crimes. And like Preet, I noted the oddity of having your "star" witness plead guilty to lying at least three times to the government (not to mention the news stories where Flynn is alleged to have mislead Pence, etc.) before he testifies.

Which is why one scenario I'm not tossing out is that Mueller's essentially done, and this is part of wrapping up with handful of tiny procedural crimes found, before writing his report indicating that there's no vast criminal or even shady international conspiracy to uncover, especially since Hillary Clinton's e-mails, DNC Debates/Primaries Theft and murder of Seth Rich are all well known crimes she committed and personally ordered.

Well you do seem to be fairly alone on that one Benji. Same kinda goes with the hypothesis that things are shortly wrapping up, especially given the Deutsche bank thing yesterday. But like any hot takes on this, mine included, time will prove or disprove all theories.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11695 on: December 07, 2017, 12:37:41 AM »
From your own post:
Quote
Bharara disputes the common argument that the relatively light charge against Flynn (one false statements count) clearly shows he must have agreed to provide especially valuable information to Mueller’s investigation. (Flynn’s clearly offering some information, but the question is just how important it will be.)
...
“Especially if we were later gonna be alleging other people had engaged in that activity as well.”
Because I'm not a lawyer opining in my professional capacity, just a forum douchebag jerk asshole loser I don't have to temper my statements like that, I'm taking in other knowledge about Flynn (not to mention others like his son or the guy who hired him to be NSA) to wonder what information he could possibly have relating to a international criminal conspiracy that only he and the conspirators have which has been kept secret (so secret that we don't even know what the crime could possibly be!) for two years.

And why they couldn't just hammer out a standard plea deal if that was the case.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11696 on: December 07, 2017, 12:44:52 AM »
But like any hot takes on this, mine included, time will prove or disprove all theories.
Spoken like someone still living in the days of regular irony.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11697 on: December 07, 2017, 12:45:43 AM »
From your own post:
Quote
Bharara disputes the common argument that the relatively light charge against Flynn (one false statements count) clearly shows he must have agreed to provide especially valuable information to Mueller’s investigation. (Flynn’s clearly offering some information, but the question is just how important it will be.)
...
“Especially if we were later gonna be alleging other people had engaged in that activity as well.”
Because I'm not a lawyer opining in my professional capacity, just a forum douchebag jerk asshole loser I don't have to temper my statements like that, I'm taking in other knowledge about Flynn (not to mention others like his son or the guy who hired him to be NSA) to wonder what information he could possibly have relating to a international criminal conspiracy that only he and the conspirators have which has been kept secret (so secret that we don't even know what the crime could possibly be!) for two years.

And why they couldn't just hammer out a standard plea deal if that was the case.

Yeah, on the podcast though he makes it more clear than VOX that he is open to three possibilities. 1, the common theory going around law expert circles that Flynn has some serious goods(he is skeptical here). 2, the one that is in line with how he operates, how people he really respects see it, that Mueller is holding off on charging some other crimes til appropriate, til those cases get stronger and more relevant, not wanting Flynn to admit to a crime that would implicate other people that they are still building the case on, reducing their hand in the prosecution. Which is how they would of done it in that situation, maybe, but acknowledges its not the only way, but for him it makes sense. 3, that as you say, this might be it for Flynn. The case isn't as strong on that other stuff and Mueller isn't going to get a whole lot of cooperation. People may be over-excited and he cautions them to accept this as a possibility.

He's planning on a more extensive podcast tomorrow to flesh out his thoughts, so it should be interesting to hear.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 12:56:57 AM by Nola »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11698 on: December 07, 2017, 12:56:11 AM »
He's leaving out a fourth possibility because we like to assume corruption gets punished. That Mueller essentially hasn't found any new crimes. Or at least crimes that he wants to prosecute. (A special counsel can simply issue recommendations to the AG... also hand off the cases to standard Justice employees like I'd imagine he may do on Manafort and friend, as that's a fairly straight forward criminal case at this point, whether or not he has more to pursue as special counsel.)

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11699 on: December 07, 2017, 01:36:58 AM »
Ok Benji I gotta know why do you argue for the impossible? At least here.

You and I and anyone with a brain knows this isn't gonna end with lying to the FBI.