Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5391727 times)

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agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28920 on: January 03, 2019, 01:30:27 AM »
you're a vault toilet

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28921 on: January 03, 2019, 01:32:30 AM »
I have no idea how the shutdown ends
每天生气

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28922 on: January 03, 2019, 01:39:06 AM »
I have no idea how the shutdown ends

with toilets overflowing everywhere

james

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28923 on: January 03, 2019, 02:54:01 AM »
I have no idea how the shutdown ends

When Schumer folds like always
:O

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28924 on: January 03, 2019, 03:12:04 AM »
I admit I haven't really been paying attention to any of the ever shifting positions or rational after the first weekend. But just from the point of view of it being related to walls and wheels. Caving on wall funding to finish it isn't the worst move to make really, especially if they can bring the amount down by anything. It will take too long to get the process started, it's just a throw away of money on a vanity project anyway and everyone in the D camp knows its symbolic action more than anything real. And they can argue that it's worth the cost of restoring everything else if they need to.

Paying for a stupid wall is arguably a better deal than any kind of actual increased enforcement programs. And if they structure the funding right, they can basically punt it until 2020 and hope they win then kill it if they really need to. Plus a few House members can vote for it to use as cover. Maybe even some Senators. And that's just related to immigration/border security/whatever; an issue that only one party really cares about and will still go for the economy over.

Dragging it out in hopes of hurting Trump I think is a bit silly, he has a locked in group near 40% that seemingly won't abandon him, especially over his most important platform item. Congress has a built in 80% dislike rate no matter what they do. Bill and Barack wore down stronger Congresses because of this kind of power imbalance and they actually cared about maintaining their image some. Trump assumes he's invincible.

I like how they always seem to pick the dumbest thing on the table to shutdown over. Though it'll be hard to ever top Cruz's attempt at it over an already passed law, especially while shit talking his "allies" in the fight. :lol

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28925 on: January 03, 2019, 03:13:58 AM »
But the most important thing is subpoenaing Ryan Zinke to just have everyone on the committee ask him "what the fuck?" about that illegible letter.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28926 on: January 03, 2019, 03:24:40 AM »
I admit I haven't really been paying attention to any of the ever shifting positions or rational after the first weekend. But just from the point of view of it being related to walls and wheels. Caving on wall funding to finish it isn't the worst move to make really, especially if they can bring the amount down by anything. It will take too long to get the process started, it's just a throw away of money on a vanity project anyway and everyone in the D camp knows its symbolic action more than anything real. And they can argue that it's worth the cost of restoring everything else if they need to.

Paying for a stupid wall is arguably a better deal than any kind of actual increased enforcement programs. And if they structure the funding right, they can basically punt it until 2020 and hope they win then kill it if they really need to. Plus a few House members can vote for it to use as cover. Maybe even some Senators. And that's just related to immigration/border security/whatever; an issue that only one party really cares about and will still go for the economy over.

Dragging it out in hopes of hurting Trump I think is a bit silly, he has a locked in group near 40% that seemingly won't abandon him, especially over his most important platform item. Congress has a built in 80% dislike rate no matter what they do. Bill and Barack wore down stronger Congresses because of this kind of power imbalance and they actually cared about maintaining their image some. Trump assumes he's invincible.

I like how they always seem to pick the dumbest thing on the table to shutdown over. Though it'll be hard to ever top Cruz's attempt at it over an already passed law, especially while shit talking his "allies" in the fight. :lol

okay but you forgot to log into your nintex alt

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28927 on: January 03, 2019, 03:34:18 AM »
that bad huh? at least i tried to cover my tracks with distracting disclaimers and near unhinged randomness at the start and end of the post, and embedded zero twitter posts XD

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28928 on: January 03, 2019, 03:40:19 AM »
Well, nowhere near that bad. But still.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28929 on: January 03, 2019, 03:52:19 AM »
In any case, main point is I don't think caving on the wall should necessary be seen as some kind of defeat for the Dimms, even at $5 billion, to get everything else. Simply because it's not like they'll get to building the thing right away at superfast speeds and it won't really matter anyway other than symbolically. And I'm not sure it hurts the Dimms too much in their plan to pass a resolution making Elsa gay.

Plus maybe it kills off the issue for a while!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:fbm
[close]

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28930 on: January 03, 2019, 03:53:17 AM »
I don't think Dems in Congress care about the generic Congressional approval, they care about their constituencies. Dem voters hate the wall (Trump's done all he can to make it a wedge issue), and the party just gained 40 seats in an election where the GOP did their best to hammer the southern border as an issue in the last month. They're not feeling pressure on this. The first polls show people blaming Trump more than Congress, which is different from the Obama and Clinton test cases.

Even if you put all that aside, "give Trump what he wants when he threatens to shut down the government" isn't a great precedent to set.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28931 on: January 03, 2019, 03:59:54 AM »
Well, yeah, but if they get past this one, there's only one more opportunity for him to do it, and it's during the election year. I guess I don't know how long or how much they want to have this fight now, especially with the other things they've been wanting to get to. It seems like being able to give the wall funding is a huge advantage rather than actually being "caving" or whatever. Depends on their calendar I suppose.

But I guess I am also thinking that there may be value in playing relatively nicely with Trump the first couple months, like they did W. in 2007, see if he's actually willing to work on those things he claimed to be seen as a deal maker, etc. just to slowly ratchet it up as we move into the election year.

edit: I'm probably being way too pollyannaish. I thought similar things at the start of other recent Congresses. :derp
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 04:04:45 AM by benjipwns »

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28932 on: January 03, 2019, 04:04:12 AM »
It seems like being able to give the wall funding is a huge advantage

okay THAT is some nintex stuff

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28933 on: January 03, 2019, 04:11:05 AM »
Again, I will admit to seeing the wall as mostly distraction, not an actual thing that truly matters, especially considering the already existing border patrol presence. I don't like the wall, but it seems like an easy trade off that you can potentially kill with a thousand paper cuts type deal. I don't understand it as a deal-breaker from the Dimms point of view, unless they don't think the base can see it as not as valuable as Trump and the restrictionists think it is.

I do see how I could be way off here with my biases.

edit: also really do apologize if I'm coming off like concern trolling by dismissing the importance of the wall funding

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28934 on: January 03, 2019, 04:23:45 AM »
Democratic politicians care about what Democratic voters care about, and Democratic voters see it as a giant monument to racism, because of *sweeps hands indicating the last three years of American politics*.

September 2017 was the time to try to convince the Dem base that the wall was a symbolic nothing worth trading for substantial policy gains. Trump took that deal off the table now we've had 16 more months for acrimony and distrust to build.

Now, he's demanding they give him what he wants on his signature issue, something he couldn't get when the GOP had both houses, not in return for anything but just to sign some version of a bipartisan funding bill, and for them to do this as their first major act after they won an election fueled by rabidly anti-Trump volunteers and donors who would be some combination of deflated and enraged by this.

It's really not that complicated.


edit: I wouldn't say you're coming off as concern-trolling so much as being a bit  :doge

Trurl

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28935 on: January 03, 2019, 04:36:14 AM »
who's all the people shitting in national parks suddenly at increased rates
Poopers paid by Soros

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28936 on: January 03, 2019, 05:21:45 AM »
You're right I probably have been not grasping the true hatred towards the wall versus just seeing it as a dumb and silly obsession by Trump and his supporters thinking they have a one-size-fits-all solution. I've been thinking of it more as a shiny toy where Trump and Fox can get into a self-reinforcing cycle of Wall Updates as it slowly rolls out over many years. (Plus some shameful optimism that the hype and visibility of the meaningless wall will lessen chances of other more restrictive measures being taken until the wall obviously fails.)

Which actually is kinda quite distressing when it's all laid out like that. >:(

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28937 on: January 03, 2019, 05:59:58 AM »
Benji is too ideologically pure to think like a politician

 :uguu

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28938 on: January 03, 2019, 06:14:34 AM »
Even if you consider the wall as being completely valueless, Trump's overweening desire for it is reason enough to set a very high price.

"Give him his top priority, which he couldn't get when his party had the House, in exchange for nothing, at the very moment he's lost a ton of leverage" is not good politics!

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need wall!
« Reply #28939 on: January 03, 2019, 08:25:52 AM »
All white men look alike. I call all of them Bill.

Only if older than 45.

Between 30 and 45 they are all Mike or Chris.

Younger than that it’s Noah or Aiden.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28940 on: January 03, 2019, 08:34:48 AM »
I think wall funding in exchange for a DACA Fix, Mueller Protection, and some other pound of blood would be worth considering... but I think McConnell is smart enough to know he is getting rollled.

Of course, theoretically I think McConnell is smart enough to know that the shutdown will be completely untenable for them in about a week and a half. So I don’t know.

At this point, for the most part, I’m pretty sure most employees have at least gotten a partial pay check for their last pay period because the federal government pays in arrears like everyone else. So all of this TSA people being forced to work for free all got paid st least a portion of a paycheck on the 28th.

They won’t get paid at all on the 11th (or thereabouts). That’s when shit will start to get real because all those people will not continue to come to work for free indefinitely. Strand some people in DCA for a couple of days because the TSA is not manned, and the public pressure will be prettay high.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28941 on: January 03, 2019, 08:41:12 AM »
I also think pelosi’s plan was not all that brilliant. If I were McConnell I would have looked at those 7 bills and introduced the ones they would alleviate the most pressure for me while leaving some of the agencies shutdown.

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28942 on: January 03, 2019, 08:47:42 AM »
This is really a case of who blinks first and there's no reason at this time for Trump to blink.

The Democrats need to find something/anything that makes him think the government shutdown is bad for him.
As long as Trump sees a shuttered government as a good thing he's not going to reopen it.

I had this idea that seeing the empty White House when he remained over the weekend might change his mind.
But apart from the people with machine guns not waving back he didn't seem to care much.

As he sees it if there is no wall, there is no border and if there is no border there is no country anyway.
🤴

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28943 on: January 03, 2019, 08:58:13 AM »
Meanwhile

"So guys, the media says I'm not likeable any ideas"

"Well Bush was popular because they wanted to have drinks with him and Obama because people liked his family. If we combine those two you can't possibly lose!"

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1080554654352793609

"That'll be $1,000,000 in consultancy fees please"
🤴

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28944 on: January 03, 2019, 09:04:09 AM »
Even if you consider the wall as being completely valueless, Trump's overweening desire for it is reason enough to set a very high price.

"Give him his top priority, which he couldn't get when his party had the House, in exchange for nothing, at the very moment he's lost a ton of leverage" is not good politics!

Doesn't that mean the gop wants open borders? :thinking
©ZH

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28945 on: January 03, 2019, 09:38:00 AM »
This Democratic Party argument over the Paygo rules reminds me of the paygo law that Democrats passed on a party line vote in 2010.

How stupid were these motherfuckers to pass a law that allows the White House to unilaterally cut spending when a bill doesn’t pay for itself? It’s like it’s a thing that actually only hampers Democrats because Republicans always want to cut spending anyway.

They have veto proof majorities and choose spending cuts as the pain point instead of some sort of unilateral tax increase.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28946 on: January 03, 2019, 10:51:18 AM »
Meanwhile

"So guys, the media says I'm not likeable any ideas"

"Well Bush was popular because they wanted to have drinks with him and Obama because people liked his family. If we combine those two you can't possibly lose!"

tr.com/CBSNews/status/1080554654352793609]https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1080554654352793609

"That'll be $1,000,000 in consultancy fees please"

Fucking fake news not even reporting on the important part. What beer did she drink?

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28947 on: January 03, 2019, 11:21:50 AM »
Even if you consider the wall as being completely valueless, Trump's overweening desire for it is reason enough to set a very high price.

"Give him his top priority, which he couldn't get when his party had the House, in exchange for nothing, at the very moment he's lost a ton of leverage" is not good politics!
And after he fulfilled practically all of his other campaign promises, too. Like, hell no.
每天生气

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28948 on: January 03, 2019, 11:28:50 AM »
Couldn't the Republicans have passed the wall through reconciliation? Would that have violated Byrd rule?
每天生气

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28949 on: January 03, 2019, 11:51:44 AM »
Quote
And after he fulfilled practically all of his other campaign promises, too.
Fucking hilarious that after decades Trump finally 'cracked the code' to politicians dissapointing their voters.
Just promise shit that is easy to do or will happen even if you do nothing yourself.  :lol

Anyhow we somehow missed this
https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1079869309910900736

 :dead
🤴

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28950 on: January 03, 2019, 11:55:02 AM »
He didn't "crack the code", he made dangerous, stupid promises, got elected by dangerous, stupid people, and then fulfilled most of them. Things like renegotiating NAFTA, dropping more bombs on ISIS, taking a hammer to NATO, trying to ban Muslims, giving Russia lots of concessions for deals on "terrorism", all of these were easy to do but bad for the world.
每天生气

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28951 on: January 03, 2019, 12:01:23 PM »
Meanwhile

"So guys, the media says I'm not likeable any ideas"

"Well Bush was popular because they wanted to have drinks with him and Obama because people liked his family. If we combine those two you can't possibly lose!"

tr.com/CBSNews/status/1080554654352793609]https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1080554654352793609

"That'll be $1,000,000 in consultancy fees please"

Fucking fake news not even reporting on the important part. What beer did she drink?

She’s Indian, so Kingfisher.

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28952 on: January 03, 2019, 12:02:23 PM »
the madman went beast mode again and cracked da code

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28953 on: January 03, 2019, 12:24:03 PM »
https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-democrats-take-the-united-states-congress-today.91035/

How is it possible that they still don’t understand the difference between the Senate and the House?

Be so woke that you can’t be bothered to learn the most basic things about the government.

Nintex

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🤴

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28955 on: January 03, 2019, 12:33:29 PM »
LMAO even Era thinks Warren is done.  :lol

She's a shoe-in for the nomination then.
dog

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28956 on: January 03, 2019, 12:38:38 PM »
They also fucking hate Biden, shocking.
püp

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28957 on: January 03, 2019, 12:53:05 PM »
They also fucking hate Biden, shocking.

Don't see the problem tbh

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28958 on: January 03, 2019, 12:57:50 PM »
If they didn't before outright, they really really hate Bernie now too.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28959 on: January 03, 2019, 12:57:54 PM »
I'm not going to vote for Biden in the primary, but he's polling the best currently and is, I think, the best chance for winning states like PA , MI, and WI.
püp

CatsCatsCats

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28960 on: January 03, 2019, 01:02:07 PM »
Idk if I’d vote for him but I’d invite him to a crab boil picnic

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28961 on: January 03, 2019, 01:31:26 PM »
Ocasio Cortez voted for Pelosi as speaker.

So much for the revolution  :idont
🤴

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28962 on: January 03, 2019, 02:10:10 PM »
National parks are now shutting down with no notice because the piles of human feces have gotten out of control

That's never stopped Congress, amirite fellas?
©@©™

El Babua

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28963 on: January 03, 2019, 02:24:44 PM »
We'll get a competent version of Trump in 2024 if Biden gets elected :doge

Akala

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28964 on: January 03, 2019, 02:39:19 PM »
I still haven't forgiven Biden for the RAVE act.  :maf

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28965 on: January 03, 2019, 02:54:11 PM »
I don't think Dems have a chance of winning 2020 :doge
que

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28966 on: January 03, 2019, 03:22:11 PM »
hot take
püp

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28967 on: January 03, 2019, 03:25:56 PM »
Absolute predictions about who's going to win an election that's just under two years away are really stupid

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28968 on: January 03, 2019, 03:27:06 PM »
That's it, I'm voting for curly.
每天生气

team filler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28969 on: January 03, 2019, 03:30:06 PM »
*****

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28970 on: January 03, 2019, 03:51:41 PM »
is filler shitposting more than normal?
püp

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28971 on: January 03, 2019, 03:54:05 PM »
He was dead for like an entire month until Creepy Stalker started wearing his skin.
每天生气

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28972 on: January 03, 2019, 04:05:21 PM »
I think the best chance of getting rid of Trump before 2024 is to deny him the nomination in 2020.  I wasn't a fan of Romney in 2012 and I voted for Obama, but I would take him in a heartbeat over Donald fucking Trump and his cavalcade of grifters and white supremacists. 

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28973 on: January 03, 2019, 04:32:24 PM »
And after he fulfilled practically all of his other campaign promises, too. Like, hell no.

no he didn't, nintex

Nintex

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« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 05:32:48 PM by Nintex »
🤴


brawndolicious

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28976 on: January 03, 2019, 06:32:50 PM »
https://grrm.livejournal.com/141683.html

That reminds me of how much GRRM liked Obamacare.

Dickie Dee

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___

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28978 on: January 03, 2019, 06:38:09 PM »
Oh my god a FEMALE HAVING FUN CALL THE POLICE  :quark

These fucking halfwits

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| We need John Wall!
« Reply #28979 on: January 03, 2019, 06:39:36 PM »
I love how much they hate her