Persona 5 Thread | "Let's call it a day and go to bed."

[demi]

[Himu]

Thought this game sucked and stopped playing it 25 hours in. Honestly makes me not wanna touch another non-DQ rpg for a few years. The fact I waited nearly ten years for this game and it sucked balls is too depressing to bear but it'll give me all the time in the world to prepare for Shenmue III. But at least Shenmue III won't waste my time with 20 hour tutorials.

Shocked that people found the first dungeon hard. The only "hard" part was balancing sp. That was fun when you ran out and had no sp healing items but it was rare and all you had to do was make it to the save room and head out. Dungeon was as easy fuck and the design was lacking for Atlus standards. And the only reason anyone likes them is because they aren't random like P3/4. You can tell most of the people who like them don't like actual Atlus dungeon crawlers. Atlus going from Digital Devil Saga's castle or Nocturne's Amala Labyrinth to that linear train wreck made me smh hard.

People can probably argue "it gets better" but when it takes a game 30 hours to get good, that's when I put it in its case. As it is, the future of SMT is worrying. Now feels like a pretty good time to duck out and the ps4 rpgs so far have been mostly sell out city. Honestly makes me worry for DQ11.

[Bulleta©™®]

I liked the game, but I like P4 better. And Nocturne, and DDS1, and P4G, and SMT4, and SMT4:A.

I'm going to replay it later, but I hear the Merciless difficulty is actually easier than hard?

[Himu]

i'm considering putting it on easy and cruising through the game because it wants to be a visual novel instead of an rpg so badly, i might as well satisfy it.

[demi]

I busted out my 3DS. Still havent played smt4 apoc or dq7, now i get to rectify that

[Himu]

i haven't played smt4A. I hear it suffers from the same problems and that they have Persona-fied SMT.

[demi]

FF12 in just a few weeks too 

[Bulleta©™®]

I liked Apocalypse. The 'happy' path is a bit sappy but the game play-wise was enjoyable to me. Except the last dungeon, that felt longer than the Tower of Kagutsuchi from Nocturne.

[Himu]

i have ff12 on my amazon list order. I love the game to bits but i worry that I just won't have the time and it'll sit on my shelf because I'd much rather be playing a fighting game.

[Bulleta©™®]

FF12 in just a few weeks too 

Or right now, some of the changes make me wonder how a particular couple of boss fights are going to be done (namely the multiple spell animations at once).

[Himu]

iirc they changed some stuff so ff12 int. is different when speed running it compared to normal ff12 right, bulleta? No Vaan taking out monsters in the desert trick?

[Bulleta©™®]

When I ran both games, I just used the speed-up function and played through faster (but not fast enough for SDA I guess). I think 'real runs' now for both games abuse reflect and spells. If you mean grinding xp/LP/gil from that Dustia guy, it worked in International too. I had a big post at gaf talking about the main differences many years ago.

[demi]

Is FF12 early? Havent seen any streams for it.

[Himu]

Oh shit. I'll do the dustia trick then and get the game over in a jiff.

[Bulleta©™®]

Is FF12 early? Havent seen any streams for it.

Nah, I just meant that I have the Intl. one already.

Oh shit. I'll do the dustia trick then and get the game over in a jiff.

There's a POSSIBILITY that maybe Dustia can hit you with its Dark spell or whatever it tries to cast sometimes, since I imagine the 'using a Phoenix Down' animation and his spell could go off at the same time now. You'd probably just have to switch screens, but that could result in wasting a Phoenix Down.

[Human Snorenado]

The game isn't really hard, no. Not even on "harder" difficulties.

I enjoyed it, not as much as the other two "modern" Persona games though. I could see if what you want is "dick punchingly difficult" why it wouldn't satisfy you, but, you know, to each their own.

[Himu]

It isn't just the difficulty.

It's the handholding. It's the lack of choice. It's the guided feel. It's the fact it feels more visual novel than rpg. P3/4 had its flirtations with VN gaming but they still balanced it with rpg. P5 went more in the VN side of things. Everything about it besides presentation turned me off. From its awful bloat and snail paced progression, to its poor dungeon design. Quite clearly the game, and its reception, shows that RPGs are for the birds, or more specifically the ones of the modern bent. The long tutorial and lack of trust towards the player to figure things out in a Megaten side game made me want to pull out an evoker and go ham. The cat that wouldn't shut up. The constant dialogue. Do a story scene that day? Well fuck you, you don't have choices. Go to bed.

Oh man, and I'm remembering the poor enemy variety. Still fighting pixies in hour 20. What a dreadful, awful game, and I waited almost ten years for it.

At the time it came out I went to play Wonder Boy: Dragon's Trap instead. To be able to play a game with no story shit, just pure gameplay and puzzle solving and correcting your mistakes was heaven after hours of time wasting tedium that is Persona 5. Honestly, it's hard to see RPGs as any but that at this point. I should probably sell my unopened copy of The Witcher 3 to gamestop because Lord knows a westaboo rpg isn't going to have good gameplay and will put storytelling above that.

[tiesto]

P5 definitely opens up a bit more after the first dungeon, but there are still some parts where it really railroads you with story scenes or stretches of time where nothing happens or dungeons that go on a bit too long. I am nearly at the end of it (halfway through final dungeon) and really liked it but pacing definitely isn't one of its strong points and after 105 hours I'm definitely ready to move on.

Of course the next game I'm gonna play is Trails the 3rd, and those games have slow-ass pacing too

[Bulleta©™®]

Yeah, the beginning was way too long, it felt like there was too much to do later on, and I still needed to do night links and stat gains.  I did like the game and some of the characters, but as before, I prefer a lot of the other Atlus/SMT games over P5.

[Human Snorenado]

The hand-holding thing is a real complaint and one I share. I went back and started a P3 playthrough almost immediately after and was struck by how much freedom you have: you can do something in the afternoon, evening, AND choose to study most nights to improve your stats unless you've been to Tartarus.

Contrast that with the cock blocking cat in P5 and it's laughable.

Again, though, it was an annoyance but didn't ruin the game for me.

[Great Rumbler]

It was kind of annoying when you wanted to do something but couldn't, but I managed to accomplish basically everything I wanted to do during my first playthrough without too much difficulty, so it didn't bother me too much.

[tiesto]

Also another thing with P5 is how some of the S-Links are locked behind really high stat gates. And that you have 5 different stats to train, 5 levels in each, and each level seems like it takes a while to go up.

[Himu]

I understand it not bothering people. A few years back I would have tolerated it. But now I'm 30 and time is already limited for games so I noped out. If it truly does get better eventually I might pick it back up later this year. But as an Atlus vet it didn't make a good first impression.

[Himu]

Also another thing with P5 is how some of the S-Links are locked behind really high stat gates. And that you have 5 different stats to train, 5 levels in each, and each level seems like it takes a while to go up.

It's easier to level up your stats in p5 than p3. Don't remember 4.

[bluemax]

Power Intuition can suck all the dicks.

 

When I ran both games, I just used the speed-up function and played through faster (but not fast enough for SDA I guess). I think 'real runs' now for both games abuse reflect and spells. If you mean grinding xp/LP/gil from that Dustia guy, it worked in International too. I had a big post at gaf talking about the main differences many years ago.

Vanilla FFXII runs make use of Dustia grinding, reflect abuse, immobilize abuse and traveler manipulation.

I've never seen a run of IZJS though to know what setups that game uses.

[a slime appears]

Persona 4 is better

[tiesto]

Power Intuition can suck all the dicks.

I like how that's a Power Instinct reference... Probably the best fighting game where one of the characters is an old Japanese granny.

[bluemax]

Power Intuition can suck all the dicks.

I like how that's a Power Instinct reference... Probably the best fighting game where one of the characters is an old Japanese granny.

All I know is that last move will keep me from getting a trophy because I suck at fighting games. Only thing I have left to do for a first play through is beat the Reaper and the game. I think I'm gonna skip the Reaper and just end it, I've had about all I can take of this game. Persona games are far too long for how repetitive they are.

[demi]

You can just do the Flu trick to kill the Reaper if you have a save before a Flu day.

Also the fighting game wasn't that bad, but doing the "Hadouken" hardly worked for me.

[MMaRsu]

Persona 4 is better

Having been playing P4 After P5 I disagree entirely

[Bulleta©™®]

And having played P4 after P5 I also think P4 is better.

[archie4208]

Having played PQ and P5, I think 5 is better. 

[Kurisu]

So I'm 75 hours in,

spoiler (click to show/hide)

got the five letters and ready to send the calling card for the ship dungeon.

[close]

...but I still have ony one skill at 5/5 (one is even 3/5 still) and I only completed two or maybe three confidants. I'm trying not to spoil the rest of the game, but will I have the time!? I feel like I'm running out...

[Bulleta©™®]

No, you won't be able to max them all.

[a slime appears]

And having played P4 after P5 I also think P4 is better.

That's been the general consensus, I've noticed.

[Himu]

P3 is still the best and P4 is overrated.

[Human Snorenado]

I would probably need to play P4 again to say one way or another, but there are some mechanical things it does that are better than P5.

P3 is better than either, though.

[Rahxephon91]

I like Persona 4 , but I've never understood the insane love for it. Enjoyable characters and good olde Persona 3+ mechanics and gameplay sure, but I found the overall story and general senerio pretty whatever.

Persona 5's story, setting, tone, and overall personality are more appealing to me. Weakness in pacing and some characters doesn't hurt the game enough.

[Bulleta©™®]

P3 is still the best and P4 is overrated.

Forced A.I. party members makes that untrue. Or do you mean P3P?

[Himu]

P3P takes all the best things from p3 IMO. I never cared that the party members are AI. not that big of a flaw IMO.

[Bulleta©™®]

No! Forced A.I. party members is always bad. ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLWAYS 

[bluemax]

I think P5 has a lot of mechanical improvements to the dating sim stuff (fast forwarding text is a big one) but that aspect is still the weaker part of the game, and it really drags on.

[Human Snorenado]

I was shocked when I replayed P3 earlier this year after playing P5 how little I cared what my AI party members did.

Would I have preferred to have direct control? Of course. Was it awful? Nah, not really.

[Bulleta©™®]

TENTARAFOO TENTARAFOO MARIN KARIN MARIN KARIN

[Bulleta©™®]

Fuckin' right.

[Himu]

P3 is the best because of the simulation/rpg mix. In P3 you have to make conscious choices. "Do I grind it out for another night and risk my party getting fatigued and limiting the things I can do?" You balanced the sim with the rpg. It's very hard doing everything in the game and maxing every s link. The amount of choices makes every choice have weight in how much it affects the simulation to the rpg. There's also the fact that there's after school and Tartaros. This allows a nice balance between choosing what activity to do after school and at night. You essentially have two choices a day. In P4 and 5, you have one. People had a problem with P3's fatigue system which forced you to actually weigh choices and they were wrong.

Furthermore, I think P3 had the best slinks. In P4 there's far too many s links that are tied to main story characters. In P5, every slink is tied to the story. It was great how in P3 you had stories like Maya and the mmo, or meeting a dying man in a park. You used these people to grow better Persona through your high charisma for selfish reasons. It felt like your actual characters person was himself a persona, or rather, using a facet of his personality to use people for power. In P3 it's sunshine and rainbows (literally given the games aesthetic).

Now we have P5 and the simulation has been neutered into shit. What really makes it worse off is the fact that like in P4, you go into dungeons only in the day time and can't do anything after the fact due to being too tired. It's been a while since I've played P4 so correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't happen in P4. You can do a dungeon and then at night time, go to your job or do an slink. By limiting my amount of choices (slinks or dungeon) you don't really have much of a choice, because dungeon will almost always take precedence. So because you only have one choice per day, the developers are obviously going to make leveling up slinks easier. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I got out of my time with P5. The simulation X rpg part was downsized when it was originally the main hook of modern Persona. They opted to take it more in a visual novel direction instead.

For that reason I don't mind that P3 has party AI. The simulation X rpg aspect (the main hook) made it the most fun to play. Maybe P5's simulation opens up better later on in the game. I don't know. All I know is they neutered everything I loved about modern Persona to appeal to people who want to max every slink in one play through.

[Rahxephon91]

I feel like I'm the only person who never cares about is controlled party members.

[Bulleta©™®]

You got too tired to go out after a dungeon in P4.
You can go out after a dungeon in P5 if you max one of the S-links. I didn't max that particular one until November or so so it didn't help that much by then.

[Himu]

You can go out after a dungeon in P5 if you max one of the S-links. I didn't max that particular one until November or so so it didn't help that much by then.

Another problem with P5: locking content behind slinks.

[bluemax]

You can go out after a dungeon in P5 if you max one of the S-links. I didn't max that particular one until November or so so it didn't help that much by then.

Another problem with P5: locking content behind slinks.

Yeah, a ton of the battle system stuff gets locked behind S.Links as well. It's not all super important, but it still sucks that things like in battle party member swapping doesn't kick until super late in the game because of S Links.

[Human Snorenado]

You can go out after a dungeon in P5 if you max one of the S-links. I didn't max that particular one until November or so so it didn't help that much by then.

Another problem with P5: locking content behind slinks.

Yeah, a ton of the battle system stuff gets locked behind S.Links as well. It's not all super important, but it still sucks that things like in battle party member swapping doesn't kick until super late in the game because of S Links.

That's another thing that makes the first dungeon... "hard" is not the right word, but I guess "annoying" is closer to what I'm trying to say. But yeah, you can't follow up with your entire party in that dungeon and it's bullshit.

[Bulleta©™®]

I saw most of those as bonuses, but a small handful like the one you mentioned wasn't. And here's where I go "but I never swapped people so it did not bother me". 

I will say that for me, for absolute sure, Ryuji's "bonus" of not getting into a fight was really, really, really, really annoying. If I don't want to fight, I'll avoid the enemy. If I do, I go after it. I really wish that his "bonus" could've been toggled on or off.

[Let's Cyber]

TENTARAFOO TENTARAFOO MARIN KARIN MARIN KARIN

I know this was annoying (to the point of becoming a meme) but it isn't game breaking or anything. But yes I agree, player controlled teammates is clearly superior.

The ultimate dream would be a P3 remake in the P5 engine with FES extras and the option of Female lead + the P3P music. 

[Bulleta©™®]

I dunno, I've lost at least a couple of battles in 3 due to the A.I. doing stupid things instead of what would have been what I'd have them do.

[TVC15]

My general impressions on P5: played for 60ish hours, and I think I've had my fill of this formula. To me, it's like P4 with less compelling characters, a less compelling plot, and a few welcome gameplay refinements. The presentation is killer, but I hope they mix it up more next time. Knowing game development though, any further sequels will hew very closely to this formula since its now proven very successful. I can only hope that there are some inspired developers out there that will rip it off and change things up.

[TVC15]

Well, if it makes you feel better the guy behind the last three Persona games and Catherine is moving on to some fantasy JRPG so if a P6 happens soon it'll be likely be under a different team.

I'm kinda disappointed because fantasy JRPG's are a dime a dozen, and I would have much rather had a Catherine like game that follows different characters and a different story. My dream of having the Golden Playhouse turn into a Japanese Twilight Zone like videogame series is probably not gonna happen.

I knew this about the Persona director/producer/whatever-they-have-in-japan bailing after this game, but given the reception of Persona 5, I expect the pedal to be to the metal. This is a franchise borne to be devoted to anime-tards and pedophiles, not to people of taste. Persona is dead. It won't change again. Maybe in a decade.

[Bulleta©™®]

I went back and read the whole thread. I wasn't able to read all the books and some of the other stuff. Maxed all the links, played on normal. No guide.

While I'll have to politely disagree with White Man's last half of his previous post, what would "revive" it again to you?

[a slime appears]

I knew this about the Persona director/producer/whatever-they-have-in-japan bailing after this game, but given the reception of Persona 5, I expect the pedal to be to the metal. This is a franchise borne to be devoted to anime-tards and pedophiles, not to people of taste. Persona is dead. It won't change again. Maybe in a decade.

Definitely not changing considering that formulaic design for franchises is the status quo in the Japanese RPG market and is also heavily desired by consumers. Sega needs a guaranteed influx of new cash at this point so screwing with their RPG golden child is a stupid gamble to take.

There's potential for a (yet another) spin-off though.

[Himu]

Yeah, this is my last persona. I said last time that I hoped after p4 that p5 didn't use the same formula. I love the formula. It's addictive. One more day and all that. But it's limiting and repetitive after so many games. Now that Persona is mainstream, the formula will become even further neutered and a far cry from the goals the team made when they created persona 3. Now that we actually have p5 now, I feel the same way I did after p4 nearly ten years ago. The formula has worn thin.

I agree that persona is dead. Or at least, what I liked about it.

As an old Atlus fan, the future of the company for me kind of rests on what they do with the next SMT. If they betray their old customers by making it a typical modern rpg with all the handholding, poor pacing, lowered difficulty, grueling amount of text dump for "narrative" purposes;etc. then stick a fork in it. It's done. Atlus will have finally become a success but they will have killed off any reason I became a fan in the first place: hard as ball games, amazing dungeon design, unique settings and stories, minimalist stories told through limited dialogue and heavy symbolism.

The fantasy game has no interest to me. Maybe it will after details are revealed.

and to think Demi nicknamed Persona games after me in "himusona."

What's most striking is how much Atlus sold out despite stuff like Souls games showing there is a market for the type of software they make without necessarily ruining what made them so special. Would modern Atlus be able to make something like Digital Devil Saga? Doubt it.

[fistfulofmetal]

I stopped playing and probably won't go back. For me it's the amount of dungeons there are that kills it. There's just too many and knowing that they start to employ a lot of specific gimmicks later on kill my enthusiasm entirely. I just don't have it in me to go through 5 or 6 more dungeons.

The same game, with fewer dungeons would be ideal.