The Intellectual Wank Dad [ ot ] jordan peterson Jordan Peterson JORDAN PETERSON

[Oblivion]

Never would have expected this from a guy who hates the idea of women complaining about sexual harassment:

U of T professor and clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson is engaging with the College of Psychologists of Ontario, the province’s governing body for psychologists, to address an allegation of professional misconduct.

https://thevarsity.ca/2018/03/23/jordan-peterson-addressing-professional-misconduct-allegation-with-psychologists-governing-body/

[etiolate]

Oblivion did you actually read that? It's basically telling him to spend more time with his clients. He's said the recent celebrity has taken away his time for working with clients and he needed to stop seeing them. (Ethical responsibility to be there for clients at moment's notice.) Maybe he still has a client or maybe it's just the board wanting him to go back to clinical work.

It's not about harassment.

[Oblivion]

He complained in one of his videos a few weeks ago that he's been accused by at least 3 of his female patients for sexual harassment. Given the timing, it wouldn't be surprising if these two stories were connected.

[etiolate]

 

It says in the article you linked dude

Peterson’s undertaking includes two steps: the “formulation of a plan to prioritize clinical work with clients above other competing interests, including appropriate client communications” and a self-report on the development and implementation of that plan.

[benjipwns]

https://samharris.org/ezra-klein-editor-chief/

Needless to say, I knew that having a friendly conversation with Murray might draw some fire my way. But that was, in part, the point. Given the viciousness with which he continues to be scapegoated—and, indeed, my own careful avoidance of him up to that moment—I felt a moral imperative to provide him some cover.

In the aftermath of our conversation, many people have sought to paint me as a racist—but few have tried quite so hard as Ezra Klein, editor in chief of Vox. In response to my podcast, Klein published a disingenuous hit piece that pretended to represent the scientific consensus on human intelligence while vilifying me as, at best, Murray’s dupe. More likely, readers unfamiliar with my work came away believing that I’m a racist pseudoscientist in my own right.

After Klein published that article, and amplified its effects on social media, I reached out to him in the hope of appealing to his editorial conscience. I found none. The ethic that governs Klein’s brand of journalism appears to be: Accuse a person with a large platform of something terrible, and then monetize the resulting controversy. If he complains, invite him to respond in your magazine so that he will drive his audience your way and you can further profit from his doomed effort to undo the damage you’ve done to his reputation.

Since then, Klein has kept at it, and he delivered another volley today. I told him that if he continued in this way, I would publish our private email correspondence so that our readers could judge him for themselves. His latest effort has convinced me that I should make good on that promise.

Below is our unedited email exchange. I believe patient readers will learn the following from it: (1) I can still get angry; (2) Klein gave me very good reason to be angry.

The list of prominent people on the Left who are willing to behave unethically in order to silence others continues to grow. If nothing else, readers of this exchange will understand how much harm these people are doing to honest conversation, both in public and in private.

[curly]

Oblivion did you actually read that? It's basically telling him to spend more time with his clients. He's said the recent celebrity has taken away his time for working with clients and he needed to stop seeing them. (Ethical responsibility to be there for clients at moment's notice.) Maybe he still has a client or maybe it's just the board wanting him to go back to clinical work.

It's not about harassment.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/after-misconduct-complaint-jordan-peterson-agrees-to-plan-for-clinical-improvement

Celebrity psychology professor Jordan Peterson was the subject of a professional misconduct complaint for his work as a clinical psychologist, resulting in a written promise that he respects his patients’ boundaries and will address how he communicates with them.

nah breh

[Mandark]

resulting in a written promise that he respects his patients’ boundaries

It's about setting boundaries, something y'all wouldn't understand.

[curly]

[naff]

I'm all for Peterson critique, but that seems like nothing.

[etiolate]

Ezra is a real piece of shit and Vox is trash.

Vox uses rhetoric to imply nasty things and then act awe-shucks when people complain.

[Mandark]

Charles Murray, smh.

If that dude was on holiday in Europe he'd wind up counting the number of whites vs. non-whites he saw out in public.

[Momo]

Ezra is a real piece of shit and Vox is trash.

Vox uses rhetoric to imply nasty things and then act awe-shucks when people complain.

A lot of these places should get their asses Hulk Hogan'd

[curly]

harris did the "publish the secret e-mails that EXPOSE you" thing with Chomsky too

Ezra is a real piece of shit and Vox is trash.

Vox uses rhetoric to imply nasty things and then act awe-shucks when people complain.

A lot of these places should get their asses Hulk Hogan'd

dat commitment to free speech

[Momo]

harris did the "publish the secret e-mails that EXPOSE you" thing with Chomsky too

Ezra is a real piece of shit and Vox is trash.

Vox uses rhetoric to imply nasty things and then act awe-shucks when people complain.

A lot of these places should get their asses Hulk Hogan'd

dat commitment to free speech

Fuck are you on about curly, this has nothing to do with freeze peach, you're free to say whatever you will, but if you are willfully playing stupid games with truth and interpretation thereof like 'depends what is is' shit that traditional news media is doing daily at this point you deserve to get got, get fucked for trying to make this partisan bullshit.

[curly]

 

[Momo]

 

[curly]

The media is as honest or dishonest as it's ever been. "Getting Hulk Hogan'd" is a billionaire abusing his wealth and the legal system to shut down outlets he doesn't like, so yeah it is an issue of free speech. And if you read that email exchange and thought Harris came out looking good...

[Momo]

a billionaire abusing his wealth and the legal system to shut down outlets he doesn't like

That's not at all my interpretation of what happened.

[Mandark]

what are you on about

[etiolate]

Gawker was publishing revenge porn. A lot of effort was put into spinning that into an evil rich man shutting down the press. (That invaded his private life for no reason of public interest.)

Gawjer was trash and it cost them.

This isn't intellectual wankery, but it's Tim Pool, a lawyer and another reporter that works with Tim discussing the recent protest and (relevantly) the whims of defamation.

[Momo]

what are you on about

If you guys are so deep up your own asses you're going to defend gawker style jurnalism and vox hit pieces, you can just go back to posting in the US politics thread 


EDIT: I'm not interested in having dishonest conversations, and for some small part I was kinda hoping this thread could be a place where ideas could be challenged and mocked/cheered without needing to bring partisan bullshit into it. I cant fathom why anyone could defend the kind of blatant misrepresentation vox and other media engages in except for when it's happening to 'the other team'. It's fucking nasty man.

[curly]

 

You sound like Harris, whining about silencing or dishonesty or partisanship because somebody disagrees with you. All over Charles "I Didn't Know Cross Burning Was Racist" Murray.

[Mandark]

partisan bullshit

be precise please

[Momo]

You sound like Harris, whining about silencing or dishonesty or partisanship because somebody disagrees with you. All over Charles "I Didn't Know Cross Burning Was Racist" Murray.

Tip to help with reading comprehension, at no stage did I defend anything about Charles Murray, I attacked the style of media Vox engages in, something I would hope all people with sense can agree upon. You immediately trying to attribute my post as a defence of Charles Murray is exactly what I consider to be the most cancerous style of argument on the internet, I understand you're used to people being disingenuous because of the partisan bubble you live in, but when it comes to anything I post you can be assured it's about exactly what I'm saying and nothing else. I have no dog in your dumb fight.

[etiolate]

The aim of poisoning the well against someone is to silence that someone. You isolate them, encourage others to disassociate from them and label them as untouchable.

It's a weird mix of classism and high school girl bullying.

And now an old Taleb bit

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577

[Mandark]

momo you keep saying "partisan" when nobody else brought up a political party

so if you wanna talk reading comprehension

[Momo]

momo you keep saying "partisan" when nobody else brought up a political party

so if you wanna talk reading comprehension

You're being intentionally dense, my premise is obvious. I'm saying there is no way a sane logical person could defend gawker/vox style media unless it's because they are fine with it because the person is on 'the other side'. And then you're being even more dense if you're going to deny that the split in the way people are treated online in heavily US spaces isnt along party lines or perceived party lines.

[Mandark]

i don't read vox but they seem pretty milquetoast tbh

if you don't rock with murray then what's bothering you about what they wrote about him?

[curly]

You sound like Harris, whining about silencing or dishonesty or partisanship because somebody disagrees with you. All over Charles "I Didn't Know Cross Burning Was Racist" Murray.

Tip to help with reading comprehension, at no stage did I defend anything about Charles Murray, I attacked the style of media Vox engages in, something I would hope all people with sense can agree upon. You immediately trying to attribute my post as a defence of Charles Murray is exactly what I consider to be the most cancerous style of argument on the internet, I understand you're used to people being disingenuous because of the partisan bubble you live in, but when it comes to anything I post you can be assured it's about exactly what I'm saying and nothing else. I have no dog in your dumb fight.

Making assumptions about people based on zero evidence is some high level argumentation

I don't think you even know what you're mad about. "The style of media Vox engages in," what is that? Wonky milquetoast center-leftism?

[Mandark]

i don't read vox but they seem pretty milquetoast tbh

"The style of media Vox engages in," what is that? Wonky milquetoast center-leftism?

ezra klein mildly annihilated

spoiler (click to show/hide)

or: milqueroasted

[close]

[curly]

Another great method of argumentation, assuming your opponents couldn't possibly be arguing in good faith

Also Vox and Gawker are about as far apart in style as you can get, so don't know why Momo is talking about them like they're the same

[Momo]

Fine, i'll concede vox (except polygon, fuck polygon) isnt near gawker that's all im giving you, the rest I stand by.

[Oblivion]

Ezra Klein is like the most uncontroversial leftist in existence.

Vox makes those little weird explainer videos on where shit like E. Pluribus Unum came from or whatever.

The level of invective directed towards an otherwise milquetoast person/outlet is a bit...overkill.

edit: heh. Didn't even see Mandark and Curly's posts

[Mandark]

getting mad at vox is like getting mad at steely dan

[etiolate]

the Hilary campaign saw Ezra (and Vox by extension) as their go to attack dog

vox IS partisan trash

[Mandark]

The aim of poisoning the well against someone is to silence that someone. You isolate them, encourage others to disassociate from them and label them as untouchable.

It's a weird mix of classism and high school girl bullying.

vox IS partisan trash

Ezra is a real piece of shit and Vox is trash.

[Oblivion]

Seeing Ezra described as an "attack dog" is a new one, I'll admit.

[etiolate]

When I see a man stealing, I do not mislead others upon his character to say so.

When I see a man and say he has the face of a thief then I do.

[Mandark]

mislead others upon his character to say so.

upon's definitely not the right word there

[etiolate]

And when I see Mandark's face, I urinate upon it, for I hear he pays for that sort of thing.

[Mandark]

wow, your dad said he wouldn't tell anyone

i want my five bucks back

[etiolate]

was that an attempt at jab?

a parry?

or something?

I know you've never been in a fight. I can help you here.

The key is that the blow has to land.

[Oblivion]

Just finished reading that article on Vox. Ezra spent most of the time basically just trying to explain that there is a an entire history of black subjugation and its effects that both Harris and Murray ignored in their conversation. He doesn't call either of them racist at all, but was just trying to point out that when they have discussions on topics like these that they're not really helping people understand the issue any better, as well as their own positions on the matter.

THIS is why Ezra should be dragged into the street and shot?

I mean, I guess I'm not surprised but still..

[agrajag]

Who knew, the intellectual dank wad is just etoilet slinging poo at everyone.

[team filler]

Who knew, the intellectual dank wad is just etoilet slinging poo at everyone.

[Momo]

Man I can sometimes get heated over dumb shit, but I really hope we call all stop before calling each other namez. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

filler will not like this post since it's anti-filler entertainment

[close]

[team filler]

 

[HardcoreRetro]

Everything other people do gets me heated. That's why I come here to rub out an intellectual dank wad.

[Rufus]

https://samharris.org/ezra-klein-editor-chief/

Needless to say, I knew that having a friendly conversation with Murray might draw some fire my way. But that was, in part, the point. Given the viciousness with which he continues to be scapegoated—and, indeed, my own careful avoidance of him up to that moment—I felt a moral imperative to provide him some cover.

In the aftermath of our conversation, many people have sought to paint me as a racist—but few have tried quite so hard as Ezra Klein, editor in chief of Vox. In response to my podcast, Klein published a disingenuous hit piece that pretended to represent the scientific consensus on human intelligence while vilifying me as, at best, Murray’s dupe. More likely, readers unfamiliar with my work came away believing that I’m a racist pseudoscientist in my own right.

After Klein published that article, and amplified its effects on social media, I reached out to him in the hope of appealing to his editorial conscience. I found none. The ethic that governs Klein’s brand of journalism appears to be: Accuse a person with a large platform of something terrible, and then monetize the resulting controversy. If he complains, invite him to respond in your magazine so that he will drive his audience your way and you can further profit from his doomed effort to undo the damage you’ve done to his reputation.

Since then, Klein has kept at it, and he delivered another volley today. I told him that if he continued in this way, I would publish our private email correspondence so that our readers could judge him for themselves. His latest effort has convinced me that I should make good on that promise.

Below is our unedited email exchange. I believe patient readers will learn the following from it: (1) I can still get angry; (2) Klein gave me very good reason to be angry.

The list of prominent people on the Left who are willing to behave unethically in order to silence others continues to grow. If nothing else, readers of this exchange will understand how much harm these people are doing to honest conversation, both in public and in private.

Before I even think about reading the exchange, has anyone else? Is it as good as the Chomsky one?

Also, it's a bit rich to say you're being smeared and then publish this and their email conversation. I don't believe in being the 'better man' myself, so I understand, but Harris talks like he's above it.

And now an old Taleb bit

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577

It's a good polemic.

Read this, too. (Not necessarily for it's conclusions, though, because he doesn't make a clear case for why the 'empty suits' can't serve a useful function exactly because they are removed from consequences.)
https://medium.com/incerto/what-do-i-mean-by-skin-in-the-game-my-own-version-cc858dc73260

[Oblivion]

https://samharris.org/ezra-klein-editor-chief/

Needless to say, I knew that having a friendly conversation with Murray might draw some fire my way. But that was, in part, the point. Given the viciousness with which he continues to be scapegoated—and, indeed, my own careful avoidance of him up to that moment—I felt a moral imperative to provide him some cover.

In the aftermath of our conversation, many people have sought to paint me as a racist—but few have tried quite so hard as Ezra Klein, editor in chief of Vox. In response to my podcast, Klein published a disingenuous hit piece that pretended to represent the scientific consensus on human intelligence while vilifying me as, at best, Murray’s dupe. More likely, readers unfamiliar with my work came away believing that I’m a racist pseudoscientist in my own right.

After Klein published that article, and amplified its effects on social media, I reached out to him in the hope of appealing to his editorial conscience. I found none. The ethic that governs Klein’s brand of journalism appears to be: Accuse a person with a large platform of something terrible, and then monetize the resulting controversy. If he complains, invite him to respond in your magazine so that he will drive his audience your way and you can further profit from his doomed effort to undo the damage you’ve done to his reputation.

Since then, Klein has kept at it, and he delivered another volley today. I told him that if he continued in this way, I would publish our private email correspondence so that our readers could judge him for themselves. His latest effort has convinced me that I should make good on that promise.

Below is our unedited email exchange. I believe patient readers will learn the following from it: (1) I can still get angry; (2) Klein gave me very good reason to be angry.

The list of prominent people on the Left who are willing to behave unethically in order to silence others continues to grow. If nothing else, readers of this exchange will understand how much harm these people are doing to honest conversation, both in public and in private.

Before I even think about reading the exchange, has anyone else? Is it as good as the Chomsky one?

Also, it's a bit rich to say you're being smeared and then publish this and their email conversation. I don't believe in being the 'better man' myself, so I understand, but Harris talks like he's above it.

I read it. Not sure why he thought to post it since it doesn't make him look good at all. It starts off well enough, but he goes from zero to unhinged at breakneck speed. Even his own subreddit isn't siding with him!

https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/87myd2/sam_harris_responds_to_ezra/

[etiolate]

I read the exchange. It mostly repeats itself. Sam's point is that the articles and the promotions of the articles used slanderous language and that Nisbet is small time. He linked another scientist's take and scolded Ezra for the language use. Ezra kept playing dumb in response.

[agrajag]

Sure, that's what happened

[Nola]

The aim of poisoning the well against someone is to silence that someone. You isolate them, encourage others to disassociate from them and label them as untouchable.

It's a weird mix of classism and high school girl bullying.

vox IS partisan trash

Ezra is a real piece of shit and Vox is trash.

Etiolate distilled.

[Rufus]

His intentions are pure, therefore it's both justified and morally neutral, if not good.

[seagrams hotsauce]

a billionaire abusing his wealth and the legal system to shut down outlets he doesn't like

That's not at all my interpretation of what happened.

please explain what skin in the game Thiel had RE: hogans dick

[seagrams hotsauce]

That sure sounds a lot like a billionaire using his wealth to exploit the legal system to shut down an outlet he doesn't like to me

[etiolate]

It sure sounds like you're oddly more concerned with Thiel's money rather than the terrible things Gawker was doing that got them destroyed.

[seagrams hotsauce]

what are you even talking about

[etiolate]

I am not sure I can overcome your reading comprehension problems, so I'll yell things in caps like a goofball thinking it will help a deaf person understand.


GAWKER GOT GAT CUZ GAWKER DID BAD THINGS

WHY ARE YOU FOCUSED ON THIEL USING HIS MONEY TO FUND HOGAN

[curly]

A billionaire using his wealth to game the legal system and shut down media orgs he doesn't like is of much greater importance than Gawker being trashy

You can say Gawker deserves what they got and I don't really have an issue with it, but the way it happened is scary as hell and absolutely has had a chilling effect on the press as a whole