Sekiro Shadows Die Twice (translator's note: Sekiro means ninja fuckery)

[Himu]

I just don’t know. On one hand the game looks amazing. On the other, Souls. So while this game looks great I am split on buying it. Leaning heavily on buy.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Well, you might like 3 and Bloodborne. Especially 3. 3's bonfire density is crazy. Also, they peeled back a lot of the obtuse RPG stuff.

[Himu]

I might start with Souls 3 then, get it for cheap, see how it is, and pick up Sekiro later.

[Himu]

Also, funnily, I loved Demons Souls but not Dark Souls. Putting the Souls in a level is much more manageable than the full world environment of Dark Souls. Plus Demons manner of unlocking shortcuts was faster.

[Himu]

[Himu]

How has Dark Souls 3 made 1 obsolete?

[BobFromPikeCreek]

3's also my favorite personally. It's a nice synthesis of the best of Bloodborne and DS1.

[Don Rumata]

How has Dark Souls 3 made 1 obsolete?

I still prefer 1.
The lack of 8-way rolling is the biggest problem with it, but the pace and progression up until the end of Anor Londo is still the best in any of these games so far, in my opinion.

Besides, in later entries (Bloodborne included) the health pool of enemies just because a chore to grind down.
Bosses in DkS1 were tough, but they didn't take 40 minutes to take down, because of their massive health bar.
It's actually why i stopped playing halfway through the first DkS3 dlc, and am thinking of skipping their future games.

Even in games like Ninja Gaiden, i like that bosses don't take that many hits to go down, but it's just hard to find an opening and they punish you dearly for mistakes.
Nothing worse, to me, than attacking an enemy, and see a miniscule sliver of health go down in their HP, fuck that shit.

Healthbars aside though, DkS3 does have some of the best bosses in the series.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

The bottomless health thing is mostly DLC bosses though, isn't it? Main game DS3 and Bloodborne bosses were pretty reasonable.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Also, funnily, I loved Demons Souls but not Dark Souls. Putting the Souls in a level is much more manageable than the full world environment of Dark Souls. Plus Demons manner of unlocking shortcuts was faster.

Me too

[Don Rumata]

The bottomless health thing is mostly DLC bosses though, isn't it? Main game DS3 and Bloodborne bosses were pretty reasonable.

Yeah that's true, most are either DLC or optional (like Chalice Fire Dog is the worst one, i think).

[Himu]

How has Dark Souls 3 made 1 obsolete?

I still prefer 1.
The lack of 8-way rolling is the biggest problem with it, but the pace and progression up until the end of Anor Londo is still the best in any of these games so far, in my opinion.

Besides, in later entries (Bloodborne included) the health pool of enemies just because a chore to grind down.
Bosses in DkS1 were tough, but they didn't take 40 minutes to take down, because of their massive health bar.
It's actually why i stopped playing halfway through the first DkS3 dlc, and am thinking of skipping their future games.

Even in games like Ninja Gaiden, i like that bosses don't take that many hits to go down, but it's just hard to find an opening and they punish you dearly for mistakes.
Nothing worse, to me, than attacking an enemy, and see a miniscule sliver of health go down in their HP, fuck that shit.

Healthbars aside though, DkS3 does have some of the best bosses in the series.

This sounds so badly designed, the bosses I mean. It sounds like my definition of difficulty and their definition is completely different.

[paprikastaude]

Bloodborne is gotg. Haven't played Souls because high fantasy is boring - though I still want to try Demon's, that at least looks a little bit cooler in its settings. Bosses weren't ever my favorite part of it, but I don't remember them as particularly uncomfortable. Just go explore somewhere else if you don't want to do it at that point, because BB level design is GOAT.

[toku]

excited for this one

[Himu]

Bloodborne is gotg. Haven't played Souls because high fantasy is boring - though I still want to try Demon's, that at least looks a little bit cooler in its settings. Bosses weren't ever my favorite part of it, but I don't remember them as particularly uncomfortable. Just go explore somewhere else if you don't want to do it at that point, because BB level design is GOAT.

I admit that the Japanese setting and art direction has made me far interested in this than any From game made since Demon’s.

[Himu]

So Bloodbone > Souls 3?

[BlueTsunami]

The Tenchu influence in this is turning my nips into diamond cutters. Tactical stealth killing the chaff, then taking out one of the lives of the mid-boss to make it easier. Plus the vertical nature of the environment lends to more exploration.

[Himu]

The Tenchu influence in this is turning my nips into diamond cutters. Tactical stealth killing the chaff, then taking out one of the lives of the mid-boss to make it easier. Plus the vertical nature of the environment lends to more exploration.

Big mood.

[Don Rumata]

So Bloodbone > Souls 3?

Bloodborne is good, but i think i still prefer the bosses in DkS3 mechanically.
Plus not being able to play it in 60fps (and with that awful frame pace) is really a turn off for me, it give me nausea after a bit (the muddy color scheme and awful IQ don't help).
I was really hoping for a Pro patch to fix BB's biggest issue, tbh.

I think each game in the series has its ups and down, Blooborne is very consistent and, arguably, the more solid one in terms of art direction, but i think the weapon (and build) variety is lacking for example, and the "trick" aspect isn't enough to make up for it.
Although Sekiro will be even worse in that sense, lol.

Though people loved God Of War, and that one literally has two weapons in the whole game, so...

[naff]

revisiting DkS1 though :phew

just a much more well realised, well paced world than DkS3. 3 did modernise a lot of things, and generally just plays better. i definitely feel the pain with gargoyles. from there the game opens up, and despite having some difficulty spikes, feels a lot fairer for the solo player (imo) from that point on. the thing with gargoyles is it's intended to be the first hurdle that make you lrn 2 summon. you can summon in the church in the lead up to the fight, smush through the enemies with your crew and the gargoyles are a cakewalk.

edit: there are a lot of other ways to make the fight a hell of a lot simpler - use gold pine resin, kill a black knight for a black knight sword. but summoning (talking NPCs like Solaire that are guaranteed summons, not real ppl, but that too) is the obvious winner for that fight. if you ever go back to it, just holla at Solaire and/or Lautrec and you will laugh as they get dunked on. im not particularly good or patient with games, but nearly all DS bosses have some puzzle solution (read: cheese) which makes 'em a hell of a lot easier than just relying on brute force/gaming dexterity. DS allows either avenue, but the tactical avenues with many bosses I see as a concession to average players not getting road blocked.

[naff]

[Don Rumata]

Also DkS3 has a terrible start, the initial castle is one of the worst areas in the game, and every other room is a gank squad.
Thankfully after that, it gets better.

[Svejk]

The Tenchu influence in this is turning my nips into diamond cutters. Tactical stealth killing the chaff, then taking out one of the lives of the mid-boss to make it easier. Plus the vertical nature of the environment lends to more exploration.

You're not helping my wallet.

[naff]

Also DkS3 has a terrible start, the initial castle is one of the worst areas in the game, and every other room is a gank squad.
Thankfully after that, it gets better.

i never thought about this/found the initial area v fun and enjoyably tense with a lot of fun stuff to explore rolling a knight, though i heard that was the easiest starting class (hence my choice). i know it's against some unspoken gaming code of honour or something, but just checking the wiki or a yt vid when you get stuck on parts of these games always sorts me out.

[Don Rumata]

Also DkS3 has a terrible start, the initial castle is one of the worst areas in the game, and every other room is a gank squad.
Thankfully after that, it gets better.

i never thought about this/found the initial area v fun and enjoyably tense with a lot of fun stuff to explore rolling a knight, though i heard that was the easiest starting class (hence my choice). i know it's against some unspoken gaming code of honour or something, but just checking the wiki or a yt vid when you get stuck on parts of these games always sorts me out.

Knight is the best in DkS3 because of the good shield and, especially, the long sword, which is inexplicably massively OP in the game (might've been balanced now though, idk), but still, i think the difficulty curve is kind of fucked at the start, which is why i think DkS1 is a better game, in how it handles its progression.
If you think about it, every other room has 3 to 6 enemies, and some of them (the lance knights for example) are incredibly hard to deal with alone, let alone in group.

After that (the village for example) the difficulty drops significantly.

Just seems like an odd way to start the game.

[Himu]

Watched this and those scarecrow enemies are insane.

[Himu]

Also this game looks ninja gaiden as fuck

[chronovore]

You would have hated Ornstein and Smough goddamn that fight. But I personally love that about this series. Every step in a new area is precarious with ever increasing interesting loot thats enough of a carrot to carry on. Overcoming a boss also feel momentous. Almost as if its an entire game in its own right.

I very much /did/ hate that fight. Not only because they're horrible and the path to get to them is long and problematic, but the Blacksmith just before them is the first one in the game which can Elemental Enchant your weapon. He provides a Lightning enchantment.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ornstein and Smough are immune to electrical damage.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Game is straight-up trolling its players.

[close]

[close]

Jesus that sounds horrible.

Yeah, that was the last time I quit the game. It was my fourth start-from-the-beginning playthrough. I determined to never play it again.

...Even now I know I will eventually go back to playing it.

PROTIP: The game doesn't allow online interaction while in an XBLA party, also meaning you can't be invaded, so I'd start a Private, me-only Live Party to prevent other players from invading me during Boss Fights.

[Raist]

Team Ninja: Hi guys, here's a souls like with more complex combat.
FromSoft: Hold my beer.

But I can’t stand the tedium of Souls 1 of dying at a boss and traveling all that way just to refight them.

Can you recall where this happened? Genuinely curious, because I don't recall every encountering this problem, so maybe you missed a bonfire?

https://darksouls.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Gargoyles

I know you're going to clown me for complaining about such an early boss, but that's specifically why it's horrible. There's the run-up from the nearby tower's bonfire, across the courtyard with a four strong-ish enemies for that player-level of strength, so I may end up using a Flask before I get to the boss, the hallway full of crazies that are easy to get through but sometimes get past my guard. IF THE PLAYER SUMMONS SOLAIRE, it means they're Living which means other players also like to invade at that juncture. They'll grief players there, it's happened to me twice.

For me, there was a lot of travel and incidental battles to repetitively wear through before getting to that Gargoyle fight.

The next one was pretty bad, too. The one in the little courtyard at the base of the tower walls. Looked like a goat-head on the boss, and the camera gets REAL twitchy. There's something of a troubled hike to get to that one, too.

Git gud, gramps :p

[toku]

[paprikastaude]

Team Ninja: Hi guys, here's a souls like with more complex combat.
FromSoft: Hold my beer.

I wasn't feeling the announcement at first, because we already had Nioh (and I was already expecting Nioh 2). But then thankfully they made this much more of an action adventure. Now I can look forward to this and Nioh 2

[I'm a Puppy!]

Bloodborne is probably is in my top 3 games of the gen. I didn't care much for Demon's souls. Dark Souls I sorta got and will get to, they just seem a little slow after Bloodborne. But I'm definitely getting this.

[toku]

this game is gonna break ppl

[Svejk]

I dunno... isn't failing by dying penalty enough in video games? 

[BlueTsunami]

That sinking feeling when you find out you just can't perfect parry consistently or you just don't want to be engaged in the combat THAT much. I'm down to clown tho.

Watching Soulsborne maniacs fumble in the early level play through vids were hilarious to see.

[paprikastaude]

I could've already picked it up, but the store overpriced it. I might still give in if there's no better deal tomorrow, but at least there should be reviews by then (though at this point I'm not expecting anything to be fundamentally broken, other than Souls hardcores whining that it's different).

[Don Rumata]

I could've already picked it up, but the store overpriced it. I might still give in if there's no better deal tomorrow, but at least there should be reviews by then (though at this point I'm not expecting anything to be fundamentally broken, other than Souls hardcores whining that it's different).

I'm considering whether 45€ is too much for it or not (lowest i could find on PC), i feel like it'll go cheaper in just a month or two.

[paprikastaude]

I need it now

[Himu]

I might skip Bloodborne and just get this day one. It looks too dope.

[Raist]

That sinking feeling when you find out you just can't perfect parry consistently or you just don't want to be engaged in the combat THAT much. I'm down to clown tho.

Watching Soulsborne maniacs fumble in the early level play through vids were hilarious to see.

Honestly, I suspect this may be due to the fact that they clocked thousand of hours of gameplay on Soulsborne games. From what little I've seen of Sekiro, it looks like playing it "Souls-style" is a one way ticket to getting trampled.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Yeah I get the same feel here. Sorta like Bloodborne was made to make fun of the Dark Souls shield heavy/roll fest, in the videos I've seen so far it looks like that kind of trolling but on steroids. I can see a lot of Soulsborne fans rage quitting this.

[shosta]

I don't know how they're going to manage making a game better than Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3 but I'd be wrong to bet against From. Can't wait for the embargo to lift tomorrow.

[bluemax]

I don't know how they're going to manage making a game better than Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3 but I'd be wrong to bet against From. Can't wait for the embargo to lift tomorrow.

Easy, they make a game with an actual working third person camera and enemies that obey the same animation and physics rules as the player. How they're this successful without managing those things still baffles me.

[Dickie Dee]

[Coax]

Half an hour before review embargo lifts according to OpenCritic

[Coax]

IGN's review is up: 95. Reading the section on the death system it seems more reasonable than the impression I was under earlier from the previous tidbits of info.

You’re gifted with the ability to resurrect yourself upon death [...] if you die, you just lose half the experience and currency you’ve collected. (The only exception to this is a mechanic called Unseen Aid, which is essentially divine intervention giving you a penalty-free death.)

Every time you rest at an Idol you’re given a single-use resurrection (you can normally have a max of one at a time) which you can decide to use once you’ve been struck down [...] But if you die a second time before reaching another Idol there’s a chance [it] will cause the cosmic disease called Dragon Rot to affect NPCs throughout the world. [The] mechanical cost is that your chance to trigger Unseen Aid will be reduced, each time degrading from the maximum of 30% until you hit the minimum of 5%, mitigating that hail Mary effect on death.

There are ways to use additional resurrections beyond the first, tied to killing enemies or bosses with deathblow attacks and are fairly self-explanatory once you get into the swing of things

[kingv]

A more forgiving souls actually sounds right up my alley.

I probably won’t preorder since I have a ton of other games to play, but hope to eventually get to this one.

[Don Rumata]

A more forgiving souls actually sounds right up my alley.

I probably won’t preorder since I have a ton of other games to play, but hope to eventually get to this one.

I don't know how people can infer this is more forgiving, tbh.
Seems about the same to me, but this time you can't summon/level up, which are the main tools Soul gave you to lower the difficulty.

[kingv]

Well, my main beef with souls is less the difficulty and more the punishment when you lose. I just always feel like I was repeating the same sections over and over again to get another go at a boss.

[Svejk]

Sounds more like Ninja Gaiden type skill levels... no need to level, but get better tools and weapons.

[Himu]

NINJA GAIDEN vibes is why I'm buying this

Unfortunately it has a skill tree. I was hoping I could just rely on weapons and tools. Don't want to deal with skill tree RPG shit but oh well.

[AdmiralViscen]

I am gonna cum

[Don Rumata]

NINJA GAIDEN vibes is why I'm buying this

Unfortunately it has a skill tree. I was hoping I could just rely on weapons and tools. Don't want to deal with skill tree RPG shit but oh well.

In Ninja Gaiden you could "buy" moves anyway, no? All action games past (and including) DMC1 you can.
Not that different.

[Skullfuckers Anonymous]

Who else is buying the ultimate edition of the game?

https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/10379/_Sekiro_Shadows_Die_Twice__Steam_Controller/

[BlueTsunami]

 Been a while since ive catassed a game. 

[Himu]

if brad can do this i can do this

[Himu]

I am fucking pumped for this after the QL.

He mentions it's very fighting game esque. I'm really excited.

[Freyj]

I think I sequence broke things a bit but...

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lady Butterfly was really fucking difficult as a first boss. The posture mechanic really emphasizes aggression but the game still punishes aggression. Had to lookup a video to learn that Shuriken interrupts (some?) unparryable attacks.

[close]

Sekiro is a fucking difficult game in general.

[remy]

TFW i want to buy this but my ass is broke 

[AdmiralViscen]

Sekirual