Sekiro Shadows Die Twice (translator's note: Sekiro means ninja fuckery)

[BlueTsunami]

That difficulty jump. Theres a point in this game where certain enemies are best dealt stealth kills otherewise you'll be in a slog of a swordfight. Which is fine, if youre sloppy with your stealth youre penalized with some hard ass swordfights.

[Svejk]

Tenchu 2 was good for the time.  No way it was the DMC2 of the series- that's Tenchu DS. 

Tenchu 2 was really that bad.  Like what the hell happened type bad.  Glad I never tried the DS one though. 

[Don Rumata]

Im pretty happy its not an rpg actually. Not every game needs to be one.

I mean it is, you’re just much more constrained. There’s still “souls” and purchased items to grind. Health and attack power to increase. Basically this is Parry Dex Souls with a sprinkling of build variety via the prosthetic tools and skill texts.

Sekiro has as much "health and attack upgrades" as Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta.
Unless those are also RPGs.

BTW these genre discussions are always pointless. 

Tenchu 2 was good for the time.  No way it was the DMC2 of the series- that's Tenchu DS. 

Tenchu 2 was really that bad.  Like what the hell happened type bad.  Glad I never tried the DS one though. 

I still don't understand this opinion of yours, i think Tenchu 2 was the peak of the series, despite all of it being made obsolete by ShinobiDo.

[Svejk]

I suppose this is one of my more stubborn gaming opinions; about Tenchu (just ask bork. Lol)

Tenchu 2 grapple hook was nerfed beyond belief; couldn't latch on and hang on a ledge unless you're perpendicular with the wall/roof.  Environments we're smaller with even less draw distance, the ambient noise was horrible audio with literal 2 second loops, the draw/sheath sword was completely useless and only made the gameplay even more tanky than the first was.  Nevertheless, T3 and Kurenai made up for everything T2 stumbled on. 

[Let's Cyber]

After 10 hours: wow, this game is amazing.

Stuck on a boss 2 hours: Fuck this dumb shit @#$%#%&&*$&^#%#%@%#$%!!!

Finally beat boss: WOW THIS GAME IS AMAZING

[AdmiralViscen]

This game fuckin rules

[Himu]

This game fuckin rules

As a Souls hater how Souls is it? Give deets Admiral-san

[Rahxephon91]

https://twitter.com/UprightOrc/status/1108907867095158785

This is me. Really liked Bloodbourne and enjoyed Dark Souls 3. This game is too hard for me. Probably won't trade it, but it's shelved for now.

NiOh 2 can't come soon enough.

[Freyj]

Lots of games are RPG-like nowadays. Bloodborne constrained things quite a bit and Sekiro constrains them further.

This game still has souls in its DNA as much as any other. It’s an evolution / reinvention of a sub genre.

[AdmiralViscen]

This game fuckin rules

As a Souls hater how Souls is it? Give deets Admiral-san

I wouldn’t say I hate Souls but so far I am liking this more than what time I spent with DS1 and BB. I really like the stealth and maneuverability, and the quickness of the combat. It’s much easier to carve up or avoid mooks (I also didn’t like wasting time on them when repeating sections).

The death penalty doesn’t seem so bad, if you earn enough exp to earn a skill point then that’s banked. You can also buy gold pouch items with your loose gold for permanence, though I imagine the pouch is worth less than you paid for it? I paid 110 and I don’t know how much I get back for opening it.

[Rman]

Yes, it follows some superficial conventions such as bonfires, estus and stuff like that.  But this has stealth, vertical traversal, jumping, smoother and ninja-like mobility, posture system, and the combat system requires way more precision than Souls. 

Plus it doesn't have Souls staples like PvP and summoning. 

[Himu]

Can you only use estus if you’re in a certain mode? In DS1 you can only take it if you’re hollow iirc? Idk

[Rman]

Can you only use estus if you’re in a certain mode? In DS1 you can only take it if you’re hollow iirc? Idk

You could use Estus in all forms in DS1.

In Sekiro, you could use it at all times as well.  I haven't gotten all status effects, though, so I'm not sure if there is a status effect that blocks it.

[Himu]

Thanks for the correction

[Coax]

posture system

The posture system is the most curious thing since it doesn't require you to get an enemy's health down to zero. Like with that demon general boss for example, from memory I barely scratched his HP yet following enough attack deflections and a few hits here and there managed to break his posture twice for the deathblows despite him having near full health.

[Himu]

posture system

The posture system is the most curious thing since it doesn't require you to get an enemy's health down to zero. Like with that demon general boss for example, from memory I barely scratched his HP yet following enough attack deflections and a few hits here and there managed to break his posture twice for the deathblows despite him having near full health.

It honestly sounds similar to Ninja Gaiden 2’s dismemberment system which you could apply to enemies to make them weaker combined with Obliteration Attacks which are bloody, gore-ish attacks that act as deathblows, also from the same game (Ninja Gaiden 2).

[AdmiralViscen]

Yes, it’s a bit like that. Really lets you approach things differently.

The 110-coin bags give you 100 back so they are a good way to avoid death penalties. You can also warp back to a bonfire at any time.

[BlueTsunami]

First sour note for me

Spent an hour trying to kill this boss, took everything I had. Finally got it, flipped off the screen... and oh hey, its a multistage boss who's final form wiped its ass with me within 10 seconds. I went back to the stage to see if I have to it all over again and yep, I do. Thats not difficulty, thats straight up sadism. Getting Ornstein and Smough flashbacks.

[bork]

Tenchu 2 was good for the time.  No way it was the DMC2 of the series- that's Tenchu DS. 

Tenchu 2 was really that bad.  Like what the hell happened type bad.  Glad I never tried the DS one though. 

I still don't understand this opinion of yours, i think Tenchu 2 was the peak of the series, despite all of it being made obsolete by ShinobiDo.

Can't say it's the peak of the series either.  I like the original Tenchu (especially Shinobi Gaisen- the J-version with all the American content, plus a level editor) more than 2, but I think from the 'old-school' games I'd give it to Fatal Shadows as the best, but Acquire came back and did it all better with Shinobido anyway.  I like their more stealth-focused take with Tenchu 4, too- sucks we didn't get a planned trilogy out of it.

Bringing it all back around, I just played through a section of Sekiro and stealth-killed all the enemies in the area.  That was fuckin' great.  Tenchu vibes in that sense. 

[bork]

https://twitter.com/UprightOrc/status/1108907867095158785

This is me. Really liked Bloodbourne and enjoyed Dark Souls 3. This game is too hard for me. Probably won't trade it, but it's shelved for now.

NiOh 2 can't come soon enough.

This seems easier than Nioh to me.

[Freyj]

First sour note for me

Spent an hour trying to kill this boss, took everything I had. Finally got it, flipped off the screen... and oh hey, its a multistage boss who's final form wiped its ass with me within 10 seconds. I went back to the stage to see if I have to it all over again and yep, I do. Thats not difficulty, thats straight up sadism. Getting Ornstein and Smough flashbacks.

This game fucking loves that shit. Speaking of...

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I managed to go straight from the Guardian Ape to Ashina Depths after who knows how many attempts and I had a mild existential crisis when I almost immediately ran into the headless Guardian Ape again with its enraged Ape wife. Well played you fucks.

[close]

[paprikastaude]

Using Samurai Leroy Jenkins tactically

[Coax]

It honestly sounds similar to Ninja Gaiden 2’s dismemberment system which you could apply to enemies to make them weaker combined with Obliteration Attacks which are bloody, gore-ish attacks that act as deathblows, also from the same game (Ninja Gaiden 2).

Made a GIF of the Mikiri Counter ability. Enemy at full health but with the spear stomp counter he's completely vulnerable to an insta-kill deathblow (breaking his posture). It's those little moments of badassery the game is pretty good at.

[The Sceneman]

This game looks very cool, but sounds nutso hard! Is it as hard as Ninja Gaiden?

[Raist]

https://twitter.com/UprightOrc/status/1108907867095158785

This is me. Really liked Bloodbourne and enjoyed Dark Souls 3. This game is too hard for me. Probably won't trade it, but it's shelved for now.

NiOh 2 can't come soon enough.

This seems easier than Nioh to me.

NiOh was stupidly easy IMO. Could just use the exact same tactic on most enemies. The "training" NPCs were the most challenging.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

It honestly sounds similar to Ninja Gaiden 2’s dismemberment system which you could apply to enemies to make them weaker combined with Obliteration Attacks which are bloody, gore-ish attacks that act as deathblows, also from the same game (Ninja Gaiden 2).

Made a GIF of the Mikiri Counter ability. Enemy at full health but with the spear stomp counter he's completely vulnerable to an insta-kill deathblow (breaking his posture). It's those little moments of badassery the game is pretty good at.

(Image removed from quote.)

Is that GIF from 1999?

[Coax]

Is that GIF from 1999?

Didn't want to be potentially slowing the page for anyone. Either I halved the framerate or have a GIF twice the filesize but smoother. If no one minds though I can replace it with the smoother version.

[Svejk]

This game looks very cool, but sounds nutso hard! Is it as hard as Ninja Gaiden?

I wanted to ask that as well.  If someone could beat NG Black, should this be about the same, or is it straight up another level of difficult?

[Don Rumata]

This game looks very cool, but sounds nutso hard! Is it as hard as Ninja Gaiden?

I wanted to ask that as well.  If someone could beat NG Black, should this be about the same, or is it straight up another level of difficult?

This game looks very cool, but sounds nutso hard! Is it as hard as Ninja Gaiden?

From what i've seen (several hours of my brother playing) and played (just a bit) this game is significantly harder than Ninja Gaiden (on normal).

It's mostly against bosses/mini bosses, whereas Ninja Gaiden tends to have a more balanced/spread-out difficulty curve, but you'll die over and over here against a single boss, whereas Ninja Gaiden might've taken you 5 or 6 tries at best.
Also NG introduced "Ninja Dog mode" whereas this one doesn't have any easy option (nor way to summon help).

Most of the difficulty comes from dying in 1 or 2 hits, and the parry being 90% of your defensive arsenal.

[Himu]

Also NG introduced "Ninja Dog mode" whereas this one doesn't have any easy option (nor way to summon help).

If ninja dog mode counts why don’t hard and master ninja?

Also how is dying to a boss 5-6 times not over and over?

[bork]

This game is harder than Ninja Gaiden.  A regular 'grunt' or a *chicken* (lol) could even kill you if you're not careful.   

But it feels fair to me.  I haven't played as much as some of you guys, but I wasn't like "RAGE!!!!!!! GRRRR!!!!" when I died, more psyched to try again.  It's fun! 

[Svejk]

This game looks very cool, but sounds nutso hard! Is it as hard as Ninja Gaiden?

I wanted to ask that as well.  If someone could beat NG Black, should this be about the same, or is it straight up another level of difficult?

This game looks very cool, but sounds nutso hard! Is it as hard as Ninja Gaiden?

From what i've seen (several hours of my brother playing) and played (just a bit) this game is significantly harder than Ninja Gaiden (on normal).

  I felt good back in the day being able to beat NG Black... I was at my peak then..  My patience level has gone down, accompanied with my playtime.  Plus I enjoy having a drink or 2 while gaming only on weekends.  Maybe this isn't gonna be too good a match for my play style now.     I can only re-fight a boss/enemy so many times before I say fuck it.

This game is harder than Ninja Gaiden.  A regular 'grunt' or a *chicken* (lol) could even kill you if you're not careful.   

But it feels fair to me.  I haven't played as much as some of you guys, but I wasn't like "RAGE!!!!!!! GRRRR!!!!" when I died, more psyched to try again.  It's fun! 

And that's the thing!  The gameplay looks sooooo good!    Feel so torn.

[Don Rumata]

Also NG introduced "Ninja Dog mode" whereas this one doesn't have any easy option (nor way to summon help).

If ninja dog mode counts why don’t hard and master ninja?

Also how is dying to a boss 5-6 times not over and over?

What would be the point of mentioning Hard and Master Ninja in the context of what game has the hardest Skill floor?

5 or 6 times is nothing compared to dying 15 or 30 times to a boss like in Sekiro.

I didn'ìt say NG wasn't hard, just that Sekiro is harder (again, talking about skill floor, not skill ceiling).

[AdmiralViscen]

Beat the first miniboss and got up to the first boss. Both of them had a save point right there so you don’t have to go through a bunch of guys. Going through guys is easier anyway with all the stealth options and aerial shortcuts, and the quick combat. Like this much better than Souls

[BlueTsunami]

I dont understand, with all the UI hand holding Activision suggested, they couldnt have gone the extra mile and implemented a boss rematch option. The tedium of having to wait for a whole level you wont be playing in to reload just to get back to the same boss youre gonna fight another ten times makes no sense. But hey, the things we do for love. I'm having a blast in spite of this.

With that said, the fights are so enjoyable that even fighting low level chumps is something you dont mind. It requires skill and rhythm which ultimately feels satisfying every single time.

[paprikastaude]

This feels harder than Ninja Gaiden to me, but mostly because of the (mid) bosses. Honestly, Bloodborne was much easier to play with my character action muscle memory. This game's flow is asking for very differing things that I'm not used to.

[paprikastaude]

I was just answering the question man, not complaining.

[AdmiralViscen]

Does anyone feel like the little red circle for an insta-kill can be really janky? Sometimes I’ll be in the flowers behind a guy just standing there, have the red dot, hit R1 and go into an attack animation instead of a kill. It’s even worse if you’re trying to land on someone’s head from above.

[BlueTsunami]

Does anyone feel like the little red circle for an insta-kill can be really janky? Sometimes I’ll be in the flowers behind a guy just standing there, have the red dot, hit R1 and go into an attack animation instead of a kill. It’s even worse if you’re trying to land on someone’s head from above.

This has happened to me and its always in controller throwing scenarios. It only really happens to when trying to stealth kill as the enemy is walking.

The biggest interesting thing about this game is how the posture meter is meant to keep you engaged in a fight. The only way to beat some of these bosses and mini bosses is to get their vitality down and just hammer them while timing the deflections. Its one of the most intense battle system I've played.

[I'm a Puppy!]

It's funny watching my son try to play this like Dark Souls and get his ass handed to him time and time again. I've really only seriously played (and finished) bloodborne so I don't have that propensity to block and roll that Dark Souls people have. It's funny he'll play for like 3 hours and make some progress. I'll play for like an hour and get to the same place and he's like "How did you get there that fast?!" I keep telling him it's because I don't play it like Dark Souls. Eventually this game will break him of his bad habits.

[Nola]

As much as a I love From and the Souls series(by far my favorite series right now), hearing the unforgiving difficulty of this game and the scaled back RPG elements(I.E. no way to grind levels to take some of the edge off the difficulty) I honestly think I'm gonna skip it.

I'm not opposed to difficulty still, but I'm just past a point where I think I can bring myself to play a game where the possibility of metaphorically(or occasionally in reality) throwing or breaking a controller is in the cards. At least with Souls you could grind a bit or go on a side mission to find some crazy weapon. From my reading and hearing of everything that is almost non-existent here.

[Himu]

Beat the first miniboss and got up to the first boss. Both of them had a save point right there so you don’t have to go through a bunch of guys. Going through guys is easier anyway with all the stealth options and aerial shortcuts, and the quick combat. Like this much better than Souls

[Himu]

As much as a I love From and the Souls series(by far my favorite series right now), hearing the unforgiving difficulty of this game and the scaled back RPG elements(I.E. no way to grind levels to take some of the edge off the difficulty) I honestly think I'm gonna skip it.

I'm not opposed to difficulty still, but I'm just past a point where I think I can bring myself to play a game where the possibility of metaphorically(or occasionally in reality) throwing or breaking a controller is in the cards. At least with Souls you could grind a bit or go on a side mission to find some crazy weapon. From my reading and hearing of everything that is almost non-existent here.

Pay day need to hurry tf up

[BlueTsunami]

Reached the Castle. Game opens up

The castle is where shit gets real. Update us on how you deal with the enemies in there lmao

[AdmiralViscen]

Ok, the walk to the spear dude in the castle is kind of long, but I don’t mind it.

As much as a I love From and the Souls series(by far my favorite series right now), hearing the unforgiving difficulty of this game and the scaled back RPG elements(I.E. no way to grind levels to take some of the edge off the difficulty) I honestly think I'm gonna skip it.

I'm not opposed to difficulty still, but I'm just past a point where I think I can bring myself to play a game where the possibility of metaphorically(or occasionally in reality) throwing or breaking a controller is in the cards. At least with Souls you could grind a bit or go on a side mission to find some crazy weapon. From my reading and hearing of everything that is almost non-existent here.

You can still grind, but you just get new abilities and counters instead of stat buffs.

[BlueTsunami]

. From my reading and hearing of everything that is almost non-existent here.

Yeah I'm at a point where I have to face these bosses head on or devise strategies to deal with them if I cant just get their rhythm. You can grind for skills that will help buts its all about the abilities, tools, items, and grit.

One boss felt too fast for me so I used my spear tool to dive bomb from a distance, get slashes in, and repeat.

[bluemax]

I'll redbox it, but I doubt I'll enjoy it.

[Potato]

How closely does this follow the Dark Souls/Bloodborne formula?

I love the design and concept of this game's setting, but I just don't have the patience for the whole "git gud" gameplay thing.

[Freyj]

Final boss

spoiler (click to show/hide)

really really fucking takes the piss. 4 phases? Fuck you.

[close]

[Cerveza mas fina]

Borys, I liked Demon Souls and Bloodborne (finished both), but didn't get into Souls 1 or 2. Ill prib give Souls Remastered a go on Switch again though.

Is this a game for me?

[MMaRsu]

Borys, I liked Demon Souls and Bloodborne (finished both), but didn't get into Souls 1 or 2. Ill prib give Souls Remastered a go on Switch again though.

Is this a game for me?

yes

[Coax]

Senpou Temple

The visual design and lighting throughout is a treat itself. These barely touch on it.

[Himu]

TBH i'm happy to see soulsborne sluts get humbled by this game.

[Himu]

Game got. Impressions later.

[Himu]

Impressions so far:

Game is tight and zero From jank is found. Also 100 hours of Third Strike in the past two months has paid off.

[Rman]

As much as a I love From and the Souls series(by far my favorite series right now), hearing the unforgiving difficulty of this game and the scaled back RPG elements(I.E. no way to grind levels to take some of the edge off the difficulty) I honestly think I'm gonna skip it.

I'm not opposed to difficulty still, but I'm just past a point where I think I can bring myself to play a game where the possibility of metaphorically(or occasionally in reality) throwing or breaking a controller is in the cards. At least with Souls you could grind a bit or go on a side mission to find some crazy weapon. From my reading and hearing of everything that is almost non-existent here.

It's not impossible or that hard.  The issue is that Souls fans got too comfortable with their strats. It's been 5 games after all.

It doesn't work here at all. It's almost as Miyazaki told his designers to make a combat system and approach philosophy completely opposite from Souls.

It's why I hate that people are calling this a Souls game. Oh wow, it has bonfires and estus, whoop dee doo.

[Coax]

- blocking (guarding) instead of parrying... somehow works later on in the game. You can block whole (singular) enemies combos and punish them afterwards.

At the minimum one can also just rapidly press the block button if an enemy's attack isn't certain since it's likely to fall on one of the presses for a deflection which then contributes to breaking their posture more.

- Prosthetics are *worthless* and you can beat like 60-70% of the game only using your sword (feels like SL1 challenge, though). The only one I use a lot is Axe for breaking shields.

Some are more worthwhile than others but they certainly can be useful. I feel like the same could be said of most consumable/throwable items tbh. Axe, Sabimaru and Firecracker are the ones I'm getting the most mileage from lately. The latter I've used in three mini bosses for stunning, leaving a brief space to regen or get in a free attack if in a hurry. Flame was useful in the ogre mini boss, though it really needs like 2-3 attacks before a burn effect is triggered.

Edit: the Shuriken is most definitely useless though. Even its first tier upgraded form doesn't seem any better. Can't think of any enemy even from the beginning area that doesn't deflect them. The homing upgrade is probably where it starts getting useful.

[Himu]

It's like this game was made specifically for me.

- Deep combat with heavy emphasis on defense.
- Sengoku era samurai political story fuck yes
- Dororo inspired prosthetic
- Japanese history and folklore
- The general aesthetic

FUCK

I felt nothing for Dark Souls but this game hasn't captured my imagination like a From game since Demon's.

I love this A LOT.

[Himu]

Also, it's dope that Dororo is on air the same time this came out.

[naff]

TBH i'm happy to see soulsborne sluts get humbled by this game.

you are the saltiest poster 

[Himu]

TBH i'm happy to see soulsborne sluts get humbled by this game.

you are the saltiest poster 

nah just petty