Author Topic: Learning Music OT  (Read 11888 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
sounds like a guitar player

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
  • Senior Member
que

agrajag

  • Senior Member
another favorite of mine I want to share.



he has so much knowledge and so engaging, even people that don't know a lick (har) about music watch his videos.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
I love old timey instruments with nylon (or better yet gut) strinfs. Classical guitars, lutes, harpsichords, they instantly transport you go a long gone era.

 :lawd


Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member


It seems like I suck 10% more when the camera's on, but that's just one more skill to learn. :idont

My first "complete" song at full speed. :D You can really tell the differences compared to the vid a week ago. I'm really happy with my progress so far. :heart
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Also been listening to chunks of this:



Puts the fear of God into me like little else has.
🕊

agrajag

  • Senior Member
well Scriabin did try to initiate the apocalypse and raise the old ones with his music..

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
  • Senior Member
I love old timey instruments with nylon (or better yet gut) strinfs. Classical guitars, lutes, harpsichords, they instantly transport you go a long gone era.

 :lawd


True story. When I was in college I was approached by the early music ensemble because they needed a lute player and they were asking me to help them. I said OK, and they gave me a lute to use and some tablature. I had to learn to teach myself to learn lute tab (no small feat) and I honestly rather enjoyed it. Not as much as the guitar, but it was a nice diversion. Anyhoo, we play a bunch of concerts and all that then one day I get a letter from the Utah Shakespearean festival offering me a job to come and dress up like a minstrel and play the lute for people at the festival. 

Right after that I put down the lute and never picked it up again. If the end game is becoming a professional m'lady-er I didn't want to spend more time on it.
que

agrajag

  • Senior Member
yeah, next thing you know you're an alcoholic living in the trailer behind the renaissance festival

Snoopycat_

  • Member
I once dated this girl who was in an "experimental" band which made her seem all cool and mysterious. One night I went to see her and her band playing a gig in a half empty pub. It turned out it was just her and 3 Yokos hitting things with spoons. I had to be all supportive and pretend she wasn't a total spaz so I could get into her panties, which turned out to be not worth it. The next day she took me to see some chamber orchestra. I was stuck with her and a bunch of beards watching some divs playing cellos like it mattered. Anyway, the point is you don't even need to learn to play anything cos you can just say your avant garde and nobody will say shit.

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
There's always room for self-improvement. :)
🕊

Snoopycat_

  • Member
This is my favourite YT music guy. I like Jak because he's coked to the gills and looks like Bill Murray in drag, but he knows his stuff and he's down to earth. A lot of YT music guys are boring or precious as fuck. Ask James James why he only plays boring 70s shit and it's guaranteed she'll have a mental breakdown and threaten to quit.


headwalk

  • brutal deluxe
  • Senior Member
This is my favourite YT music guy. I like Jak because he's coked to the gills and looks like Bill Murray in drag, but he knows his stuff and he's down to earth. A lot of YT music guys are boring or precious as fuck. Ask James James why he only plays boring 70s shit and it's guaranteed she'll have a mental breakdown and threaten to quit.



this is what i'm talking about. i get nothing out of the modern eductated youtube guitarist who goes into aspergic detail about the pick slant slash uses or whatever while having no emotion behind it. if you're teaching rock or metal, there needs to be a rawness there. a piss stained pair of drainpipes that you haven't been able to squeeze into for a decade and a trembling disposition that tells its own story.

i mean, you don't have to go that far, but you have to understand that it's as much about projection of energy as it is notes on a page.

quite like ben eller for that reason. he splits the difference. he's def of the new school but still gets it.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
ITT old rocker man yells at cloud

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
  • Senior Member
I once dated this girl who was in an "experimental" band which made her seem all cool and mysterious. One night I went to see her and her band playing a gig in a half empty pub. It turned out it was just her and 3 Yokos hitting things with spoons. I had to be all supportive and pretend she wasn't a total spaz so I could get into her panties, which turned out to be not worth it. The next day she took me to see some chamber orchestra. I was stuck with her and a bunch of beards watching some divs playing cellos like it mattered. Anyway, the point is you don't even need to learn to play anything cos you can just say your avant garde and nobody will say shit.
In college there were several times I was asked to perform with the modern music ensemble. 80% of the performances I did with them I was sight reading/just making it up on the fly. They were always like "Oh man, that was soul touching! Such artistry!" 80% of modern/avant garde music  ::)
que

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
Tasty doing good :heartbeat
weed

Stro

  • #SaturnSquad
  • Senior Member
Many if not most of the greatest guitar players of all time never even figured out how to read music, let alone deep dive into theory and shit. Knowing the root 5th augmented minor pentonic platonic sweeping 9th step diminished bullshit and why it sounds the way it sounds and how it interlocks with 14 other notes and chords is fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean you're going to produce good music from it. And if you aren't producing good music with your knowledge, what's the point?

That knowledge makes more sense to have for classical writers and orchestral music. A guitar player doesn't need to learn any of that to still be a great player, imo. You don't even really have to learn scales to be a great guitar player. GOAT instrument for herbs  :noah

agrajag

  • Senior Member
that depends on your taste.

According to some very well respected musicians and composers, theory is more of an "after the fact" analytical tool. The real trailblazers create theory. But, all the greats were students of the craft in one way or another.

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
  • Senior Member
For every guitarist that actually doesn't need theory there's 20,000 playing wonderwall baldy and thinking they're hot shit.

Never understood the "I don't need theory!" people. Unless you're Jimi or Stevie or Randi (who btw he actually knew his theory) why would you not want more insight into your craft?
que

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
🕊

agrajag

  • Senior Member
For every guitarist that actually doesn't need theory there's 20,000 playing wonderwall baldy and thinking they're hot shit.

Never understood the "I don't need theory!" people. Unless you're Jimi or Stevie or Randi (who btw he actually knew his theory) why would you not want more insight into your craft?

True. At the end of the day, all those theoretical terms Stro ridiculed are just names for musical sounds. If you just want to play blues-based riffs it's fine to stay in the rock bubble, and it's true that you don't need a whole shit ton of theory for that.

A lot of oldschool jazz guitarists have a very simple approach to theory. For example, Jimmy Bruno rejects any kind of modal analysis, he just trained his ear very well and knows how each note will sound over any given chord, how intervals resolve, etc. That's theory in itself, but more like theory in practice and very stripped down.

I think theory should be looked at as an educational tool, not a rigid template for composing music.

Stro

  • #SaturnSquad
  • Senior Member
For every guitarist that actually doesn't need theory there's 20,000 playing wonderwall baldy and thinking they're hot shit.

Never understood the "I don't need theory!" people. Unless you're Jimi or Stevie or Randi (who btw he actually knew his theory) why would you not want more insight into your craft?

Mostly because it's boring and turns music into a mechanical process.

"A lot of oldschool jazz guitarists have a very simple approach to theory. For example, Jimmy Bruno rejects any kind of modal analysis, he just trained his ear very well and knows how each note will sound over any given chord, how intervals resolve, etc. That's theory in itself, but more like theory in practice and very stripped down."

That makes sense to me and I feel like really that's more than good enough for most players, and actually the natural way to learn it over time on your own without really needed to actually study up on theory itself. If you stick to it long enough you'll likely just kind of figure out most of this stuff and likely in a more intuitive and memorable way than studying definitions and vocabulary.

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
  • Senior Member
Yup. And it takes different kinds. I understand that I dissect pieces and like to follow theory and all that. But that's why I stay away from composition. I'm too held by rules by the way my mind works. That's fine. I can take someone's piece and make it mine. Others can go and create new. I just can't stand though people that are like "I don't need theory!" and all they can come up with is the same insipid stuff everyone else who thinks they don't need theory comes up with. Just as much as I can't stand the people that are like "Well, I learned in theory class that I should write it this way..."
que

Stro

  • #SaturnSquad
  • Senior Member
I just kind of feel like there's a hyper focus on theory over the past few years in online discussion, in the internet sense of anything you do has a million tutorials on how to do it the "best" way and people get too tied down to that being the way it has to be done. Especially when it comes to creative endevours like music, writing, or even cooking. Get this rigidity outta my face  :donot

agrajag

  • Senior Member
For every guitarist that actually doesn't need theory there's 20,000 playing wonderwall baldy and thinking they're hot shit.

Never understood the "I don't need theory!" people. Unless you're Jimi or Stevie or Randi (who btw he actually knew his theory) why would you not want more insight into your craft?

Mostly because it's boring and turns music into a mechanical process.

"A lot of oldschool jazz guitarists have a very simple approach to theory. For example, Jimmy Bruno rejects any kind of modal analysis, he just trained his ear very well and knows how each note will sound over any given chord, how intervals resolve, etc. That's theory in itself, but more like theory in practice and very stripped down."

That makes sense to me and I feel like really that's more than good enough for most players, and actually the natural way to learn it over time on your own without really needed to actually study up on theory itself. If you stick to it long enough you'll likely just kind of figure out most of this stuff and likely in a more intuitive and memorable way than studying definitions and vocabulary.

Actually a lot of like I mentioned, old school jazz players will agree with you. A lot of them resent the modal approach (which scale and mode should I play over this chord) and call it unmusical and the two approaches do have different characteristics. But these differences really boil down to improvisational playing.

Actively studying music does help a lot if you want to compose stuff beyond popular genres.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
I think modal harmony is the term I am referring to. It is the preeminent approach to soloing in the jazz circles nowadays, but the older bebop guys reject it and focus on chord tones. The modal harmony approach was developed in music conservatories.

headwalk

  • brutal deluxe
  • Senior Member
getting circa 2003 musicianforum flashbacks.

Stro

  • #SaturnSquad
  • Senior Member
Shut the fuck up you stupid cunt

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Music theory is coming along a little bit, although I'm rushing through some of the memorization stuff (like all the key signatures) for now -- a cheat sheet over the course of a few months will likely be how I learn those.

As for practice, life's been crazy so I've been missing it, which is on me. What's also stunted things is I accomplished my first real goal and so I'm sort of in search of the next one.

Whatever it is, after I complete it, I intend to get a teacher afterwards.

Great reading your progress man. :)
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Even 15 minutes a day is better than zero minutes.

My lack of keyboard has been an issue more days than not, although that balance could flip this weekend I think... :-\

You're totally right tho.
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Also tried playing on an actual piano for the first time tonight... holy fuck I need weighted keys so bad what the fuck
🕊

agrajag

  • Senior Member
I am not good at fingerpicking and doing percussive things with my thumb.


Tasty:

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
So like, I want to get started on my classical guitar stuff. I don't have an acoustic or classical guitar yet but have my trusty tele here. Can I learn classical guitar (baroque, flamenco, folk) on my telecaster?

Yesterday trashuman posted this great video of Nancy playing a solo to Heart's Crazy On You live, and as said earlier in this thread, I LOVE folk, baroque, flamenco, classical inspired guitar styles and I've been listening to folk rock all day. I've finally got the motivation to get started thanks to that video, which is here:



I guess I can get started learning those arpeggios Puppy posted.
weed

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
This video gives me hope I can hack learning classical without a classical guitar until I get one.



Just gotta remember guitars are just tools.
weed

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
Yeah, I really need a classical guitar. :(

It seems this book is good for self learners.

https://www.amazon.com/Solo-Guitar-Playing-Book-4th/dp/0825636795/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=frederick+noad&qid=1551415137&s=gateway&sr=8-1

I'll have a teacher check up on my progress every few months. Need that classical guitar first.



Guitar is the most beautiful instrument (my opinion). :uguu
weed

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
weed

Bore Expert

  • Member
Open tunings are fun if yr bored of standard tuning on guitar. Chord shapes are different and it also works well for slide playing if you’re into that. Capos too. Lots of possibilities

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Been way too long since I had an update here so here's what's been going on with me:

Jan: Probably practiced the same 2-3 songs I picked up from Flowkey every other day. Was partway through Music Theory for Dummies. Was doing a popular Udemy course to learn piano.

Feb: Baaaaaaasically finished Music Theory for Dummies, very insightful book up until it started getting into what I consider reference material (or at least, material much too advanced for me to worry about memorizing right now.) Got 29% of the way through my Udemy course before putting it on pause.

Mar: Too busy, unfocused and depressed to even keep up practicing the couples songs I had finally learned. Near total degradation of muscle memory, though a lot of the concepts in the Music Theory book have surprisingly stuck around in my head. Joined TakeLessons Live intending to cancel after the trial period, but I've kept it up even though I rarely attend the group classes. Just having them available at different skill levels and at different times is a cognitive load off.

TakeLessons Live is the scheduled-livestream group class offering, but the original use of TakeLessons was finding online or local language/music teachers. After literally weeks of research, weighing options including in-person vs. online factoring in cost and convenience, and a bunch of last-minute bookmark checking, I chose a 1-on-1 private piano teacher and paid for ten 45-minute lessons, to be attended online every Thursday. In addition, he agreed that the last 15 minutes of each lesson can instead be focused on vocal and singing training, as he offers lessons for that too. What can I say, I want to kill karaoke. :-[

Apr: Lesson #1, my first real piano (and vocal) session, was April 4th. :D I was nervous but in the end I fucking love my teacher, he's so chill, he had to give me extra time since we spent 10 minutes geeking out about Linux and The Matrix. :doge ...:lol I attended Lesson #2 on the 11th, but didn't really have much to practice although we did make some good progress. Unfortunately, due to events I may post in the Struggle Thread, I had to cancel the next three weeks of classes. :( I didn't practice either.

May: I knew I was in danger of losing this passion if not forever, then at least for a long time, and that scared me more than the anxiety of facing my teacher after three weeks of no practice and in fact full regression of our first two lessons. So I sucked it up and signed on for Lesson #3, we recapped and got back up to speed much quicker than I expected, and I was honest with him about my possible need for concrete "homework" to practice on. All good stuff and after this first lesson "back" I bought the book he was teaching from: Adult Piano Adventures (Volume 1.)

From my perspective, I was playing some pretty complex songs in December/January, especially compared to the early material my teacher and I are working through now, but I'm honestly happy to be going through the basics a bit more deliberately and with a guide to boot. In addition, I feel like I've gotten a good grasp at some of the various methods of teaching piano playing, or possibly music in general, after: having a real teach, taking an impersonal online video course, attending group livestream classes, watching YouTube videos, using the Synthesia-like app's guided "courses," and reading Music Theory for Dummies. For instance, only one of those "sources" introduces black keys immediately, which I find interesting.

I didn't practice in the week leading up to Lesson #3, but I vowed to rectify that. And I have -- between Lessons #3 and 4 I practiced almost every day for more than 20 minutes, though there was a day I only did 3 mins. :lol Lesson #4 was where I felt like we finally moved past the really babby stuff and now we're onto like, kindergarten concepts like ottavas, thirds/skips, and sheet music comprehension.

I'm really excited about that last one (sheet music.) After Lesson #4 I skipped ahead in my book to the next song ("Camptown Races," doo-dah) after my current homework, and it was the first song since I started learning last December where the sheet music was guiding my hands more than just my raw muscle memory, and it wasn't half bad for a first-time stumble-through. My familiarity with the song may have helped too, but for the first time I'm really associating the notes on the staff with the keys on the keyboard.

Now I just need to get faster. :P

Aaaaand that's my update for now, Lesson #5 is in three days and I've moved ahead of my homework by another song, "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" by a little guy called Mozart. This one's pretty hard for my stupid fingers, so I'm taking it slow and doing each hand at a time. I'm hoping I can learn it and surprise my teacher Thursday. I also plan to attend an online group lesson by my same teacher tomorrow.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 01:10:23 AM by Tasty Meat »
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Thanks. :D

Lesson #5 was great, I asked about a couple things that I couldn't really put in words to Google, and I really came to grips with 2nds and 3rds and ottava notation. Nightmusic by Mozart is a fun ditty, like Camptown Races. I can see using it as a warmup or exercise song even down the road.

In addition to those songs for homework, I'm practicing a song on Flowkey just for me. I've learned RH the opening couple measures, and those are beautiful and compelling enough that I feel a compulsion to keep learning the rest of the song every time I play them. Will post a vid of my stupid fingers progress soon.

Honestly, I'm pausing and reading the sheet music in Flowkey more often than the interactive "here's when you play each note" modes, but I think it's good to have those there since I find them more easy to grok than a straight metronome to keep pace.

A bonus I realized earlier today is I have like $125 in Amazon credit right now... it'll be a week or two before I can justify it to myself, but I think I can spring the additional $275 it costs for a Yamaha P45/71. The creaky plastic keys of my Casio are beginning to get to me, as is the thought I'm still incapable of playing anything I know on a "real" piano. Plus my teacher warned that even towards the end of the beginner section, some songs start to get into the 88-key-specific octaves, and I'm stuck on 61-keys. Hopefully not for much longer though. :)
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Good luck. I have a lot of respect for drummers. My early musical career was basically:

~ begin flashback ~

Mom: "I'm signing you up for music lessons right now on the phone! What instrument do you want to learn?"

8-year old Tasty: "Uhhh guitar??" [having basically been reinforced through various 90s media how "cool" an instrument it was]

Mom: "...they don't have that. What about drums?"

8yo Tasty: "Umm... OK." [internally: I guess drums are still apart of rock bands...]

~ end flashback ~

I had weekly drum lessons for a few school years afterwards, but I could never wrap my head around the drum... as a white boy, I really had no rhythm. :doge So it was difficult for me to keep time, and I was also drum-tone-deaf(?) since the notes sounded the same to me, even though they're played for differing intervals. (From what I remember anyways, it was so long ago.)

I was also adverse to loud noises and music, and practicing the drum at home was more the former than the latter to my ear.  :-\

Once I gave up on the drums I gave up on ever learning an instrument... until high school, and I became enchanted by the piano. And then it took about a decade after that for me to finally sign up for lessons...

So to reiterate, yeah, respect for drummers.  :tophat
 
Part of that is still creeping up in my piano practicing now; it's difficult for me to keep time without mouthing out the 1-2-3-4 as I go. But I think as I learn the song and the notes, I'll instinctively know when to "hold back" on playing, when to draw things out, when to add and not add legato, etc.

Lol this turned out way longer than I thought. :P
🕊

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
  • Senior Member
I was friends with a guy who was getting his masters in percussion performance and I asked him how it was, he said, "Playing Percussive instruments is less a talent or skill, and more an attitude." Gotta say I can't really say he's wrong.
que

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
I was friends with a guy who was getting his masters in percussion performance and I asked him how it was, he said, "Playing Percussive instruments is less a talent or skill, and more an attitude." Gotta say I can't really say he's wrong.

Yep... Whatever it is, I don't got it.
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Metronome is really hard for me, since I'm concentrating more on the timing than the notes... but the advice there is to slow it down to 30bpm and work upwards from there. Just have to throw myself against it until I get it.

As an additional perspective, I talk about Flowkey a lot, and it's a lot like Synthesia except with sheet music. I bring it up because Flowkey's "slow mode" is like a 45bpm metronome... but with the notes of the song instead of a dull "tick." With that, I'm able to concentrate on the notes at the same moment as the timing.

Flowkey's downside is that only vetted songs that have been specifically written for the platform are available, so you're stuck with their library (kinda like Rock Band), but they surprisingly have a decent collection of songs IMO... maybe a bit too much popular music and, weirdly, k-pop though.
🕊


Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Due to other things in my life I've been settling on 25-minute "blocks" of productivity and using various tools to help me focus during those blocks. I've been using it for some coding projects, but started applying it to my practicing and I'm noticing some improvement already.

Mostly because before I just promised myself to do "10+ minute" sessions, trying to be flexible so that I at least practice *something* every day. And there may be days I just don't have 25 minutes, and 5 will have to do. But overall I've found that knowing the fixed amount of time let's me structure the practicing out in my head...

Dunno, could be total placebo, but it seems to be making a difference. I basically want to ideally do two "blocks" of practice per day, one for "homework" for my teacher and one for a song to learn on my own.

Btw my teacher said I'm progressing really well. :) Could be a ploy to just keep renewing with him but fuck it I'll let myself have this one.

im interested in a keyboard synthesizer cuz u get to make any sound but it would probably be also distracting to practice on :lol

A few months ago I got gifted a 66-key Casio from the mid-80s, the thing must weight more than some small cars and it has a *ridiculous* amount of wacky soundbanks and weird processing effects. It's pretty awesome. Not weighted either though. :/
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Homework for this week:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]

Fun song. Playing is still a bit rough but I have two days to shape things up before Thursday's lesson.


25 minutes of deliberate practice with a focus on getting better in your weakest areas is better than an hour of practicing on autopilot.

Between both "blocks" it's really more like an hour, though I've only been doing my homework block the last couple days.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 11:14:51 PM by Tasty Meat »
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
http://www.calnewport.com/blog/2011/12/23/flow-is-the-opiate-of-the-medicore-advice-on-getting-better-from-an-accomplished-piano-player/

Excellent excellent article! This seems to line up with my experience practicing...

HN has some good comments too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20185854

Quite a few people there saying a metronome is a must at all times, even if you don't consciously try to follow it. Also that playing slow can become a timewasting crutch if you're not careful.
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Absolutely! I've been trying to follow your advice and confronting the hard/"ugly" parts can actually be fun in its own way. At least you're engaged when practicing those parts.
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Frederick Hodges: "Ragtime is neither classical music nor jazz" (2009)

Fascinating article. Maybe I'll give ragtime another look.
🕊


Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
Struck some luck this year with my guitar playing. Gotten good book to help me learn guitar in a more structured manner similar to my classical education in middle school. Enjoying the instrument far more and trying my hand at learning to play some hard rock and metal.

I've been copying Nancy. My shero.



The good thing is the material I've been going over has basics in classical guitar and I've been implementing that (thanks to puppy) into my practice. It's helped learn to form a bond with the instrument which only recently felt like a massive wall because it's not like the instruments I'm used to learning (which are far more linear).

Unfortunately only have a telecaster for now which limits my guitar picking but isn't really stopping me. When I'm no longer poor I'm looking at getting an classical guitar for my guitar pickin' and a Les Paul for metal. Hopefully a Les Paul Standard can play metal.

My goal is to get a gig in a band as a guitarist next summer. Have to get good enough by then.

For the most part I've thrown youtube and apps in the trash as far as guitar learning goes unless I want to learn how to play a song or see how a hero/shero plays. Due to my classical training, I demand structure and unfortunately electric guitar teachers are way, way, way behind classical instrument teachers. So I've turned to books and taking the occasional guitar lesson to check on my progress.

Books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Youtube

One interesting tidbit is that I still think like a trombone player despite being 30+. I always look to F on sheet music because F is first position on trombone.

Another benefits to books is confidence. One problem I've had learning guitar is that with sax and trombone I learned the basics relatively quickly. My band teacher in middle school told my high school band teacher that I was the fastest learner he has ever met and that I could learn an instrument in a few months. I never really found playing music to be terribly hard. This prompted the fucker to try to get me to switch to Tuba junior year, which is an absolute shit instrument. So then I got a guitar and I had no idea what to do with it and the teachers don't know how to teach it, at least in the manner I'm used to being taught. So due to music being not too difficulty to not knowing what to do with an instrument, I was left with utter de-motivation. But thanks to the books, for the first time I feel I can actually learn guitar, and learn it well. Given guitars non-linearity (there’s like five ways to play each chord I think) this is helpful and helps me have fun. Going from a linear instrument that relies on sheet music  and basic music theory knowledge to guitar is so, so intimidating. Having structure makes learning guitar fun, which makes addictive like learning past instruments was, which allows me more fuel to get better.

Loving it.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 04:00:11 AM by Cindi Mayweather »
weed

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
OMG Queen how did I miss your post??

Quote
My goal is to get a gig in a band as a guitarist next summer. Have to get good enough by then.

Nice! What kind of composing are you drawn to? Or do you anticipate letting the rest of the band have more creative control? Have you played in a band before?

Quote
For the most part I've thrown youtube and apps in the trash as far as guitar learning goes unless I want to learn how to play a song or see how a hero/shero plays.

I've basically done the same, in order to try and improve my sheet reading. It's like trying to learn a language but then never visiting where it's used or speaking it day-to-day, you're just never going to be as good as someone who is "forced" to do it regularly.

So I've uninstalled Synthesia. I still use Flowkey as it still includes sheet music, but I wish I could turn off the rest of the UI so *only* shows sheet music (and not the real-time hand positions) as the "repeat a section on loop" part of the app is really useful for practicing, but I digress...

Basically I agree that pretty much all of these new-fangled "learn X easy with just an app!!!" apps are trash for actually learning any kind of long-term skill. But if they work for somebody than more power to them.

Quote
Due to my classical training, I demand structure and unfortunately electric guitar teachers are way, way, way behind classical instrument teachers. So I've turned to books and taking the occasional guitar lesson to check on my progress.

This is interesting, I didn't think this was a potential perspective... Why are electric guitar teachers "behind?" Is it just because classical has been around longer and teaching methods are more time-tested?
🕊

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Quote
Books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Youtube

Also, YES. YouTube is more trash than I thought for learning this stuff...

I've been listening to Decomposed (awesome classical podcast I linked above) when I take my smoke (#420) breaks, but I'm on the last episode for it now so I'm considering switching to trying audiobooks. I'm actually retaining much more information about each podcast episode despite the marijuana, and it's honestly been perfect for the 5-15 minute gaps I'm outside.

Anyways, just something that's working for me, might work for someone here too. :pimp

Like I said I'm gonna try it with audiobooks about classical music history next. I've always been interested, and have scraped the surface over the years via Wikipedia, etc., but Decomposed has given me an entirely new and exciting way to consider this stuff.
🕊

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
weed

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
Nice! What kind of composing are you drawn to? Or do you anticipate letting the rest of the band have more creative control? Have you played in a band before?

I'm attracted to anything but the ultimate goal is to have a heavy metal band full of black people. I need to work my way up to metal though because it's so technical, which means getting down other styes.

I have never played in one of those bands we're thinking of before but I was in band 6th grade to 12th grade. So for me, music = playing with others, and the competition that comes with that.

Quote
I've basically done the same, in order to try and improve my sheet reading. It's like trying to learn a language but then never visiting where it's used or speaking it day-to-day, you're just never going to be as good as someone who is "forced" to do it regularly.

So I've uninstalled Synthesia. I still use Flowkey as it still includes sheet music, but I wish I could turn off the rest of the UI so *only* shows sheet music (and not the real-time hand positions) as the "repeat a section on loop" part of the app is really useful for practicing, but I digress...

Basically I agree that pretty much all of these new-fangled "learn X easy with just an app!!!" apps are trash for actually learning any kind of long-term skill. But if they work for somebody than more power to them.

The only guitar app I have installed now is Guitar Tuna which is a tuner.

Quote
This is interesting, I didn't think this was a potential perspective... Why are electric guitar teachers "behind?" Is it just because classical has been around longer and teaching methods are more time-tested?

Guitar teachers, in my experience, are mostly bad. They are entirely too focused on chords. They're like, here's a D7, here's an A minor, here's a C chord. Nothing about songs. I'm sorry, but I was in band almost a decade, bro. I won music contests. I won first chair multiple times. We had to memorize songs. Instruments = playing music. Chords are not music but a way to play music. I imagined myself as an 11 year old learning guitar and I would have banged my head against the wall learning this shit. One time I took a class in community college for guitar and we did jack shit but learn chords. I did not learn one single song. It fucking sucked. It's so goddamn boring. I have multiple teachers since and they're all the same.

Meanwhile, in classical land, we learned songs within days of getting our instruments. We couldn't wait to play music as kids! Emphasis - MUSIC. Chords are not music. They are not songs. If you are not teaching your student to play Mary Had A Little Lamb within a week you have failed. GOOD DAY. What motivation is there to keep going if you aren't learning songs? Songs give motivation. The electrical guitar teaching from my experience completely lacks structure.

I picked up a guitar book and played a song by the end my first session and have been hooked ever since. Why in the fuck would someone who has prior experience with music playing want to play chords for a few months? Don't get me wrong. Chords are important, and it's good to practice them, but a big problem with guitar teaching is that they tend to teach ONLY chords to beginners. Chords are not fun. I saw that many guitar teachers have low student retention and honestly, I know why.

Also they dive into chords too fast. The guitar book I've been reading teaches you individual notes on each fret. That is more far more logical to me as a saxophonist. 

Can you imagine some kid taking sax lessons and you don't learn how to play a single song after multiple lessons?

:stop

Quote
Books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Youtube

Also, YES. YouTube is more trash than I thought for learning this stuff...

I've been listening to Decomposed (awesome classical podcast I linked above) when I take my smoke (#420) breaks, but I'm on the last episode for it now so I'm considering switching to trying audiobooks. I'm actually retaining much more information about each podcast episode despite the marijuana, and it's honestly been perfect for the 5-15 minute gaps I'm outside.

Anyways, just something that's working for me, might work for someone here too. :pimp

Like I said I'm gonna try it with audiobooks about classical music history next. I've always been interested, and have scraped the surface over the years via Wikipedia, etc., but Decomposed has given me an entirely new and exciting way to consider this stuff.

Youtube is good if you find gold but it's mostly trash. It's good for looking up specific things, like the other day I looked up strum pattern videos and found this.



Also it feels good to read music again.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 06:38:09 PM by Cindi Mayweather »
weed

Tasty

  • 🌺 Neo Flower Child 🌸
  • Senior Member
Oh damn, yeah. Trying to memorize chords would be way over my head right now... might be different for guitars, but yeah. I understand the concept enough to see why songs are composed in certain ways, and I know there's basically a cheat sheet I can use to look things up, but that's definitely not super interesting to learn right now...
🕊

Cindi Mayweather

  • Senior Member
Another reason classical teachers are generally better besides having a superior structure is the fact you tend to play with others. They teach multiple people at the same time, so you get to learn things you otherwise wouldn't know or think about. It also helps you get used to playing WITH, and in front of others. Multiple times as a kid, the band teacher would hear a section and call us all out. We would be forced to play our bits of the songs individually in front of the entire class, by ourselves. Imagine public speaking but with an instrument. Playing in front of people is no longer scary then. There's also the camaraderie of learning an instrument with multiple people as you each get better. Never mind the rivalries and the drive to prove yourself the better musician.

Most guitar lessons are one on one and it lacks all of this. For many reasons, guitar teachers are just centuries behind.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 06:45:05 PM by Cindi Mayweather »
weed

Potato

  • Kipfler
  • Senior Member
I've been seriously considering buying an acoustic guitar and learning to play.

I played a little bit of piano as a kid and dabbled in bass guitar as a teenager, but never anything more than learning a few songs for amateur gigs.

I really want to just learn to play some Leonard Cohen songs and a few other things like that.

What is the chance of a middle aged man with two active young kids being able to learn to play at least semi-competently?
Spud

Trent Dole

  • the sharpest tool in the shed
  • Senior Member
I've been seriously considering buying an acoustic guitar and learning to play.

I played a little bit of piano as a kid and dabbled in bass guitar as a teenager, but never anything more than learning a few songs for amateur gigs.

I really want to just learn to play some Leonard Cohen songs and a few other things like that.

What is the chance of a middle aged man with two active young kids being able to learn to play at least semi-competently?
Can ya spare an hour or so a day? Then you can do it.
Hi