Author Topic: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)  (Read 14737 times)

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shosta

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Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« on: May 30, 2019, 04:48:53 PM »


Tongue in cheek title. Damon Lindelof posted a long (five page!) letter on instagram about what he's planning on doing with the series (edit: in 2018). In short, he's not going to adapt the original comics because they're sacred and untouchable for him, they're set somewhere in the future. Original link and I've transcribed it below, too, although personally reading the letter was a waste of time

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Dear Fans of Watchmen,

Hello there. My name is Damon Lindelof and I am a writer. I am also the unscrupulous bastard currently defiling something that you love.

But that's not all that I am.

I am a twelve-year old boy being handed the first two issues by my father. "You're not ready for this," he growls with a glint of mischief in his eye. My parents have recently divorced and he has gone rogue, so there I am in my bed, flashlight beam illuminating pages, watching the Comedian fall again and again and again. The old man was wrong. I am ready for this. Because this was written just for me.

I am thirty-eight. A man offers me the opportunity to adapt Watchmen for television. The filmed adaptation came out less than a year ago, but that doesn't matter. I tell him I am not interested and that perhaps he should let sleeping dogs lie with hopes they will eventually be run over by a car tire, bursting their stomachs. He does not get the reference.

I am watching my father haggle with a man in a wheelchair. I am fifteen years old and we are at a comic book convention in New York City, long before attending a comic book convention was something anyone wanting to ever have sex with another person would admit to. I definitely want to have sex with another person. My father finally harangues the merchant down to thirty dollars for a guaranteed authentic screenplay of Watchmen, soon to be a major motion picture! Now, he reads aloud from the script as "The Watchmen" battle terrorists at The Statue of Liberty. Something is wrong. The old man's brow furrows, scanning the text in a mixture of disappointment and rage, a child who has just been told that Santa didn't bring him presents this year, then robbed the hosue and beat up his parents. "What the fuck is this?" my father mutters. It is the first time he swears in front of me.

Another man offers me the opportunity to adapt Watchmen for television. I am forty now. I tell him someone else asked me to do this a year ago and I declined. He inquires as to why I said no. I tell him that Alan Moore has been consistently explicit in stating that Watchmen was written for a very specific medium and that medium is comics, comics that would be ruined should they be translated into moving images. The Another Man pauses for a moment, then responds - "Who's Alan Moore?"

I am twenty-three and living in Los Angeles. My father flies out from New Jersey for my birthday and gives me a present, a new edition of the "graphic novel" that is Watchmen. He explains to me that this is the publisher's way of retaining the rights to the characters. He tells me that Dan and Adrian and Jon and Walter and Laurie are all serfs, working the land for a Feudal Lord that will never grant them freedom. My father is more than a little drunk.. More so, he is a hypocrite for buying me the new edition. "I know, I know..." he says, that same mischievous glint from years ago obscured by now thicker lenses, "But it's so goddamned good."

Yet Another Man offers me the opportunity to adapt Watchmen for television. "Just a pilot," he says, "Let's not get ahead of ourselves." I am forty-three now and I am thinking about something I read about Orthodox Judaism. While most religions are cultivated by evangelizing and conversion, Orthodox Judaism doesn't solicit. If someone from another faith wishes to become an Orthodox Jew, they are rejected. If they are stubborn enough to ask again, they are denied even more harshly. But should they have the audacity to ask a third time? The door cracks open. And if they're willing to invest an immense amount of time and effort and sacrifice and faith, they are embraced into the fold. Why am I thinking about this? I have said no to Watchmen twice now. This makes me Orthodox Judaism. I crack the door. And now I'm a hypocrite too.

I am standing over my father's hospital bed. I am twenty-nine, the last age at which I will consider myself "young." The breathing tube was removed two hours ago and they said he wouldn't last longer than fifteen minutes. It's a cliché. I'm living a trope. He is unconscious and unable to impart final wisdom nor tell me he was proud all along, even though he never said it out loud. There is no beeping machine showing his weakening heartrate. My father is beyond machines. I hold his cool hand and try not to pray to God because he detested the very idea of God so instead I pray to his gods. I pray to Cthulhu. I pray to 42, the Eternal Cosmic Number. I pray to Dr. Manhattan, far away in a galaxy less complicated than this one. The television is on and the Lakers win the championship. My father never cared about basketball. He didn't even know the rules. When he dies, I finally understand that I don't know the rules either. No one does.

I am forty-five and I am writing a letter to the fans. The fans of Watchmen. It's unnecessarily wordy and an exercise in oversharing but nothing gets people on your side more than telling them about the moment your father died. Sharing such intimate details with strangers feels needy and pathetic and exploitative and yucky and necessary and freeing. I am also looking for an elegant way to escape from this device of quantum observance, a device appropriated from Mr. Moore so that I can speak to those fans from the bottom of my cold, thieving heart. Perhaps I could switch from referring to them in the third person and shift into the second, thus bringing them closer to the first?

Would that be amenable to you?

First and foremost, if you are angry that I'm working on Watchmen, I am sorry. You may be thinking I can't be that sorry or I wouldn't be doing it. I conede the point, but I hope it doesn't invalidate the apology, which I offer with sincerity and respect.

Respect. That's second and twicemost. I have an immense amount of respect for Alan Moore. He is an extraordinary talent of mythic proportion. I wrote him a letter, parts of which are not dissimilar to this one, because I owed him an explanation as to why I'm defying his wishes and to humbly ask him not to place a curse on me because he knows magic and apparently, he can do that. His response, or whether he responded at all, is between he and I. Suffice to say, even before I sent it, Mr. Moore had made it abundantly clear that he doesn't want anyone to "adapt" his work. To do so is hubris. Worse yet, it's unethical.

There are a million ways to rationalize unethical behavior - I could argue that Mr. Moore's partner, the brilliant artist, Dave Gibbons, is equally entitled to authorize access to his masterwork and that he has been kind enough to offer us his blessing to do so. Or could I offer that Mr. Moore cut his veined teeth on the creations of others; Batman, Superman, Captain Britain, Marvelman (he'll never be "Miracleman" to me), Swamp Thing and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, not to mention The Charlton characters upon whom his Watchmen characters are based... So am I not allowed to do the same?

No. I am not. I am not allowed. And yet...

I am compelled.

I am compelled despite the inevitable pushback and hatred I will understandbly receive for taking on this particular project. This ire will be maximally painful because of its source. That source being you.

The true fans.

I once said that if one were a true fan of something, they weren't allowed to hate it. A prominent writer took me to task for such heresy, arguing that just because one was the creator of a show, this did not permit them to pick and choose who was and wasn't a fan of it.

The writer went on to win a Pulitzer for television criticism. I went on to get snubbed by the Razzies for Prometheus.

As such, I concede this point, too. After all, even the most fervent lifelong fan of, oh, let's say the New York Jets, is allowed to shout at the top of his lungs, "YOU SUCK OH MY GOD YOU SUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!" and do so while wearing a replica Namath Jersey he purchased for an ungodly sum of money that may or may not have constituted his entire first paycheck on Nash Bridges. But the point.

The point is, you love Watchmen. That gives you the right to hate it, too. Because no matter what...

You're still true fans.

But to quote the immortal P.W. Herman...

"I know you are... But what am I?"

What am I?

I'm a true fan, too. And I'm not the only one.

What I love most about television is that the finished product is a result not of singular vision, but the collective experience of many brilliant minds. I have the pleasure of sitting in a Writers Room each and every day that is as diverse and combative as any I'e ever been a part of. In that room, Hetero White Men like myself are in the minority and as Watchmen is (incorrectly) assumed to be solely of our domain, understanding its potential through the perspectives of women, people of color, and the LGBTQ community has been as eye-opening as it has been exhilarating. We've committed to doing the same in front of and behind the camera. And every single person involved with this show absolutely adores Watchmen. But in the spirit of complete honesty, we also sorta want to... uh...

Disrupt it?

Except I hate that word because now it's not disruptive anymore. And how can I present as punk rock when I'm now cozy in bed, spooning with Warner Brothers, HBO and DC? Truth be told, everyone there, particularly Geoff Johns (who is as true fan as it gets) has been extraordinarily supportive. Sure, it's fun to kick around the comic corporate overlords for exploiting writers and artists, but we all know what happened to Jack Kirby and we're still first in line for every Marvel film. So... how do we answer the challenge of when it is appropriate to appropriate?

Which brings us to the most important part. Maybe the only part that really matters. Our creative intentions.

We have no desire to "adapt" the twelve issues Mr. Moore and Mr. Gibbons created thirty years ago. Those issues are sacred ground and they will not be retread nor recreated nor reproduced nor rebooted.

They will, however, be remixed. Because the bass lines in those familiar tracks are just too good and we'd be fools not to sample them. Those original twelve issues are our Old Testament. When the New Testament came along, it did not erase what came before it. Creation. The Garden of Eden. Abraham and Isaac. The Flood. It all happened. And so it will be with Watchmen. The Comedian died. Dan and Laurie fell in love. Ozymandias saved the world and Dr. Manhattan left it just after blowing Rorschach to pieces in the bitter cold of Antarctica.

To be clear. Watchmen is canon.

Just the way Mr. Moore wrote it, the way Mr. Gibbons drew it and the way brilliant John Higgins colored it.

But we are not making a "sequel" either. This story will be set in the world its creators painstakingly built... but in the tradition of the work that inspired it, this new story must be original. It has to vibrate with the seismic unpredictability of its own tectonic plates. It must ask new questions and explore the world through a fresh lens. Most importantly, it must be contemporary.

The Old Testament was specific to the Eighties of Reagan and Tatcher and Gorbachev... ours needs to resonate with the frequency of Trump and May and Putin and the horse that he rides around on, shirtless. And speaking of Horsemen, The End of The World is off the table (THE LEFTOVERS! NOW STREAMING ON HBO GO!) which means the heroes and villains -- as if the two are distinguishable -- are playing for different stakes entirely. The tone will be fresh and nasty and electric and absurd. Many describe Watchmen as "dark," but I've always loved its humor - worshipping at the altar of the genre whilst simultaneously trolling it. As such...

Some of the characters will be unknown. New faces. New masks to cover them. We also intend to revisit the past century of Costumed Adventuring through a surprising, yet familiar set of eyes... and it is here where we'll be taking our greatest risks. Risk is imperative. I need the feeling in my stomach  before I leap from a great height without knowing the depth of the water below. If my body should shatter upon impact, at least it was in pursuit of glory. And let's be honest... Isn't there a small part of you that wants to see me explode like a fleshy watermelon?

But hopefully, there's also a part that wants to experience something sort of amazing. As for what I want? I want your validation. I also want not to want it. I've given up the opioid highs of Twitter, but continue to score my methadone in the threads of Reddit and the hot takes of morning-after recappers. I'll be reading and watching and listening to what you have to say because even though I wish I didn't...

I deeply care about what you think.

Which brings us, Thank God, to the end of this missive. Endings. I'm GREAT at them.

A wise, blue man once said that nothing ever ends.

But maybe he wasn't wise. Maybe he was just scared and alone and sad that he would outlive everything and everyone he ever loved. So I hope this isn't the last time we correspond, fellow fans... after all, it's just a pilot and we don't want to get ahead of ourselves. But maybe... if everything works out the way I hope it does... and if your'e willing to give me a chance, it's not the end at all...

It's the beginning?

With Respectful Hubris,

Damon
[close]

selected quote:
Quote
The Old Testament was specific to the Eighties of Reagan and Tatcher and Gorbachev... ours needs to resonate with the frequency of Trump and May and Putin and the horse that he rides around on, shirtless.
:yuck
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 05:21:17 PM by shosta »
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agrajag

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 04:55:21 PM »
Fucking up Watchmen

 :nope

Fucking up the Alien franchise

 :ohyeah

Don Rumata

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 05:01:25 PM »
Fucking up Watchmen

 :nope

Fucking up the Alien franchise


 :ohyeah
Don't bring James Cameron into this.  8)

benjipwns

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2019, 05:06:57 PM »
Quote
Respect. That's second and twicemost. I have an immense amount of respect for Alan Moore. He is an extraordinary talent of mythic proportion. I wrote him a letter, parts of which are not dissimilar to this one, because I owed him an explanation as to why I'm defying his wishes and to humbly ask him not to place a curse on me because he knows magic and apparently, he can do that. His response, or whether he responded at all, is between he and I. Suffice to say, even before I sent it, Mr. Moore had made it abundantly clear that he doesn't want anyone to "adapt" his work. To do so is hubris. Worse yet, it's unethical.

There are a million ways to rationalize unethical behavior - I could argue that Mr. Moore's partner, the brilliant artist, Dave Gibbons, is equally entitled to authorize access to his masterwork and that he has been kind enough to offer us his blessing to do so. Or could I offer that Mr. Moore cut his veined teeth on the creations of others; Batman, Superman, Captain Britain, Marvelman (he'll never be "Miracleman" to me), Swamp Thing and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, not to mention The Charlton characters upon whom his Watchmen characters are based... So am I not allowed to do the same?

No. I am not. I am not allowed. And yet...

I am compelled.

I am compelled despite the inevitable pushback and hatred I will understandbly receive for taking on this particular project. This ire will be maximally painful because of its source. That source being you.

The true fans.

I once said that if one were a true fan of something, they weren't allowed to hate it. A prominent writer took me to task for such heresy, arguing that just because one was the creator of a show, this did not permit them to pick and choose who was and wasn't a fan of it.

The writer went on to win a Pulitzer for television criticism. I went on to get snubbed by the Razzies for Prometheus.

As such, I concede this point, too. After all, even the most fervent lifelong fan of, oh, let's say the New York Jets, is allowed to shout at the top of his lungs, "YOU SUCK OH MY GOD YOU SUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!" and do so while wearing a replica Namath Jersey he purchased for an ungodly sum of money that may or may not have constituted his entire first paycheck on Nash Bridges. But the point.

The point is, you love Watchmen. That gives you the right to hate it, too. Because no matter what...

You're still true fans.

But to quote the immortal P.W. Herman...

"I know you are... But what am I?"

What am I?

I'm a true fan, too. And I'm not the only one.

What I love most about television is that the finished product is a result not of singular vision, but the collective experience of many brilliant minds. I have the pleasure of sitting in a Writers Room each and every day that is as diverse and combative as any I'e ever been a part of. In that room, Hetero White Men like myself are in the minority and as Watchmen is (incorrectly) assumed to be solely of our domain, understanding its potential through the perspectives of women, people of color, and the LGBTQ community has been as eye-opening as it has been exhilarating. We've committed to doing the same in front of and behind the camera. And every single person involved with this show absolutely adores Watchmen. But in the spirit of complete honesty, we also sorta want to... uh...

Disrupt it?

Except I hate that word because now it's not disruptive anymore. And how can I present as punk rock when I'm now cozy in bed, spooning with Warner Brothers, HBO and DC? Truth be told, everyone there, particularly Geoff Johns (who is as true fan as it gets) has been extraordinarily supportive. Sure, it's fun to kick around the comic corporate overlords for exploiting writers and artists, but we all know what happened to Jack Kirby and we're still first in line for every Marvel film. So... how do we answer the challenge of when it is appropriate to appropriate?
jfc

shosta

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2019, 05:13:41 PM »
You disrupted yet, benji?
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headwalk

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 05:17:17 PM »
i wonder if he read this after he posted it and discovered what a massive wanker he is.

shosta

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2019, 05:21:43 PM »
I just realized the letter is from May 22 of last year, not last week. Trailer is from earlier this month though
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Akala

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2019, 05:29:15 PM »
 :yuck

Rufus

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2019, 06:01:45 PM »
If you can stand his tedious style, Film Critic Hulk had some things to say about Lindelof that resonated with me... 6-fucking years ago? Fuck.
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2012/06/17/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-damon-lindleof-intervention

Quote
SO OF COURSE PROMETHEUS TAKES AIM AT THOSE IDEAS, BUT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS GIVEN A BRIEF WHISPER OF MENTIONING AND... NOT MUCH MORE THAN THAT. SERIOUSLY, IT'S JUST LIP SERVICE. AND WORSE, NONE OF THESE THEMES ACTUALLY PLAY INTO ANYONE'S STORY.... THINK ABOUT THAT. THESE CRITICAL NOTIONS IN A MOVIE ABOUT CREATION ARE PRETTY MUCH LEFT TO BEING A BRIEF, UNREFERENCED OBSTACLE OR JUST A MATTER OF DISCUSSION ALONE... WHICH IS A FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION OF "SHOW DON'T TELL." BUT FAR MORE PROBLEMATIC THAN THE FACT THAT THESE THEMES ARE BOILED DOWN TO VERBAL DISCUSSIONS, IT'S THAT THE CONVERSATION THAT TAKES SHAPE IS NOT ONE THAT FEATURES NUANCE OR UNDERSTANDING ON THE GRAY SCALE. IN FACT, THE ENTIRE THEMATIC APPROACH OF THE FILM IS BOILED DOWN TO A LONG SERIOUS OF EXCHANGES THAT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THIS:

PERSON A: "I want to know the answers!"

PERSON B: "You can't know the answers!"

... SOUND FAMILIAR?

JESUS FLIPPIN' FUDGE DAMON! ARE YOU KIDDING HULK? YOU WENT BACK TO THAT DYNAMIC? THE ONE THAT YOU ALREADY DRAGGED OUT AND EXHAUSTED? THE ONE THAT WAS SO BLACK AND WHITE IT DROVE PEOPLE CRAZY? ARE WE SERIOUSLY GOING TO KEEP DOING THIS? YOUR OBSESSION WITH THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT OF FAITH IS NOW, OFFICIALLY, A PROBLEM. YOU HAVE ENTRENCHED YOURSELF IN THE DICHOTOMY BETWEEN ADORING THE POWER AND ALLURE OF THE UNKNOWN, BUT ALSO DWELLING ON THIS WEIRD HATE/ACCEPTANCE OF ITS CRUELTY. AND YOU JUST CAN'T SEEM TO ESCAPE IT. YES, YOU SEEMED TO COVER THIS ARENA OF FAITH RATHER WELL IN THE EARLY STAGES OF LOST, WHERE IT WAS GROUNDED IN YOUR OWN DISTINCT MYTHOS AND SCIENTIFIC CONVENTIONS. IT ALSO HELPED THAT THE WRITING AT LEAST WAFFLED BETWEEN POIGNANT SUBTEXT AND SOME ON-THE-NOSE SYMBOLISM, BUT NOW... NOW THE ENTIRE SITUATION HAS SLID RIGHT INTO OUTRIGHT, CRIPPLING FIXATION.

Don Rumata

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 06:14:58 PM »
If you can stand his tedious style,
I really can't.

Though you don't need a particularly deep analysis to see how bad the screenplay in Prometheus is, and i say this as a fan of all Alien movies (including Prometheus).
I'll say i liked the direction Scott went with in general, though the execution was lacking.
It would take some relatively minor changes to make Prometheus and Covenant into really good cosmic horror movies, in my opinion.

Tasty

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2019, 06:43:36 PM »
LOL at that all-caps blog post, what a butthurt simp.

Tasty

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2019, 06:45:10 PM »
There was an abbreviated parody Prometheus script a while back that had me laughing my ass off, particularly the line "With the alien extraction complete, Shaw exits the room and stumbles into the third act." :lol

Rufus

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2019, 06:48:31 PM »
tl;dr Expect a variation of "but you CAN'T know the truth" from this one.

Don Rumata

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2019, 07:36:41 PM »
tl;dr Expect a variation of "but you CAN'T know the truth" from this one.
Twin Peaks, the best TV show ever made, thrives on that premise.
Storytelling is all about bamboozlement, anyway.

Steve Contra

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2019, 07:38:56 PM »
The Leftovers was the best show on tv since Enlightened. I'm pumped.
vin

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2019, 07:41:52 PM »
and here i was about to ask why i should care about the leftovers

Nola

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2019, 07:51:25 PM »
The Leftovers was the best show on tv since Enlightened. I'm pumped.

Still need to get around to watching that.

Just hard to work myself up to get past two themes that don't ever really intrigue me: eye-rolling biblical premises/themes and seemingly a lot of intense grief porn.

But it's praise like that about the show that prevents me from totally writing off what so far looks mixed at best on the Watchmen stuff.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 07:56:03 PM by Nola »

Momo

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2019, 01:04:23 AM »
Have you guys been reading how Dr. Manbluepenis has been fucking up the DC universe?

shosta

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2019, 11:21:06 PM »
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Tasty

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2019, 11:43:17 PM »
Eh.

That honestly made me slightly less interested in the show than the teaser.

benjipwns

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2019, 11:53:39 PM »
i don't get it

Tasty

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2019, 12:03:56 AM »
One thing they could do to get me to watch this is saying both Before Watchmen and Doomsday Clock are canon to the show.

benjipwns

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2019, 12:05:56 AM »
iirc not even Watchmen is canon to the show

Tasty

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2019, 12:08:03 AM »
iirc not even Watchmen is canon to the show

The movie or the book?

benjipwns

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2019, 12:08:21 AM »
both

Tasty

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2019, 12:09:25 AM »

shosta

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2019, 12:09:51 AM »
iirc
You didn't remember correctly. Please reread the five page letter I transcribed in the OP (SEE OP). And keep up the good work.
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benjipwns

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2019, 12:13:58 AM »
trust, but verify

bluemax

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2019, 12:24:35 AM »
This is gonna be such a train wreck.
NO

shosta

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2019, 12:27:47 AM »
trust, but verify
did you mean verifly?
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Tasty

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2019, 09:08:25 PM »


"Veidt confirmed dead"

Takes place in the Watchmenverse that Veidt left behind in Doomsday Clock CONFIRMED #itsallconnected #unitetheseven

Tasty

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2019, 09:15:57 PM »
Lol I watched the same trailer twice and thought it was a new one, apologies everyone.

Dunno why DC just added this to their account tho.

shosta

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2019, 10:40:32 PM »


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Great Rumbler

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2019, 10:56:31 PM »
Tulsa? Weird flex but okay.
dog

kingv

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2019, 11:23:55 PM »
What does this even have to do with the watchmen except for the costumes?

shosta

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2019, 11:31:42 PM »
clearly you didn't read the 4000 word letter I hand transcribed in the OP
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HardcoreRetro

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2019, 04:41:11 AM »
Since TLDR, I'm gonna guess the screed comes down to:

"I'm gonna adapt it to modern politics. The Watchmen name is basically just brand recognition."

Nintex

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2019, 11:03:29 AM »
It looks stunning, hopefully the story holds up just as well.
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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2019, 07:07:01 PM »
It's got Space Squids, Laurie, Veidt, Owl Ship, Dr. Manhattan, Robert Redford as president, etc.

Tulsa? Weird flex but okay.

Lindelof is apparently using Tulsa to tie it into the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921. I'm impressed he's doing that since no one seems to give a fuck that it ever happened.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 07:13:18 PM by Mr. Gundam »
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Yeti

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2019, 08:12:36 PM »


Every time there’s a Watchmen reboot this should be posted
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bluemax

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2019, 02:42:21 AM »
So uh, how about that first episode?
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shosta

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2019, 03:33:20 AM »
You first.
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jorma

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2019, 07:16:01 AM »
Watchmen is such a god awful franchise, i will probably skip this even though Lindelof has made some goat tier stuff.

ToxicAdam

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2019, 09:11:16 AM »
NY Times review headline: Exhilarating confusion.


Great Rumbler

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2019, 09:13:58 AM »
NY Times review headline: Exhilarating confusion.

Yep, sounds like a Lindelof production.
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Joe Molotov

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2019, 09:46:49 AM »
*lindoff motion*
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Coffee Dog

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2019, 10:09:53 AM »
Literally every attempt to prequel/sequel this book has been fucking embarrassing. I don't expect this to be any different than the prequel comic where the comedian flings shit like an ape or that eternally long doomsday clock shitshow where moustache twirler doctor manhattan strung up Jor-El in a clockwork orange chair to make him an edgelord

Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2019, 11:59:48 AM »
The first episode was fantastic, but damn I wish they would've made the premiere two hours.

Nerds are the worst sometimes. Do you want your hand held and everything explained immediately?
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bluemax

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2019, 04:11:47 PM »
You first.

Okay I'll bite. It was a lot more action packed than I thought it would be and a lot less on build up and world building. The trailers we've seen so far showed a lot of what happens in this episode, so you don't have to worry about having seen the whole season via trailers already. The show does not hold your hand so if you don't know who the fuck the Watchmen were or what happened then you might be fairly lost. Despite starting with a flash back the show is almost completely unconcerned with telling you a lot of back story. You get maybe a minute of that when one of the main characters explains to a class of elementary school kids why she is "retired" as a police officer and now owns a bakery that is seemingly never gonna open.

The A plot line is about retired cop lady in Tulsa Oklahoma (who also is from the great state of Vietnam!), who is actually not retired and is a bad ass masked police vigilante. Apparently after 3 years of peace a white supremacist group known as the 7th Cavalry has decided to resurface for unknown reasons. The 7th Cavalry wear Rorschach masks. Also they have a fascination with collecting an old type of watch battery that are hard to come by and used to give people cancer. Cars are all electric now. Most police wear yellow mouth covers to protect their identities, but there are also a good 4 or 5 with special masks/costumes, including the incredibly unsubtle Russian guy in red and yellow named Red. Oh and Robert Redford is president and he gave out Redforations to African Americans. Also police lady has 3 kids, 2 of whom I remember seeing, that are clearly not her biological children. At one point the sky opens up and weird squid stuff rains down on people. This is apparently a common occurrence.

The B plot line is mostly just a few weird scenes with a guy who is almost certainly Adrian Veidt (despite a newspaper saying he is dead) living at some kind of mansion with some weird servants. He is writing a play about a Watchmaker. One of his servants gives him a reassembled watch. Also they give him a cake that is apparently awful in celebration of his "anniversary" (which he has forgotten) and what this anniversary is is not explained.

The C plotline is the flashback to 1920s Tulsa getting shot up by white supremacists and a little boy who escapes. In the present he is an old man in a wheel chair who knows things about what's going on and the cop lady. He was likely a vigilante.

Anywho, it did feel like maybe it should've been 2 hours or they should've shown 2 episodes. The whole thing went pretty fast and was a lot more action oriented. The "this season on Watchmen" trailer afterwards made it seem like there's a lot more to be introduced and the scope will expand. The show is peppered with references and easter eggs to the comic (the police chief has an Owl mug and a copy of Under the hood on his desk for example). As a pilot it kind of leaves you wondering why you should want to watch more since they didn't establish any of the stuff that the post episode trailer shows as the more compelling elements. But I guess if you want to see some rednecks shoot up a bunch of cows with a mounted machine gun, it does have that!
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bluemax

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2019, 01:01:42 AM »
More world building in episode 2, less full on action. More questions added to the plot and only minor things answered so far.
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kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2019, 01:47:26 AM »
You’re expecting Lindelof to... answer questions?

It’s 2019 and I still don’t know what the Flame does.

bluemax

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2019, 03:09:12 AM »
You’re expecting Lindelof to... answer questions?

It’s 2019 and I still don’t know what the Flame does.

Fair. I thought about the episode a bit more during my drive to work this morning. It did answer some questions, it just opened up like two more for every question it answered.

I will say I think the show understands the source material better than the movie did, and they also have a meta "show within a show" about masked vigilantes that is obviously a meta commentary on many things (and either an homage or parody of the Zach Snyder style of superhero movies).

There's a lot about this show that feels like it is almost trying too hard to be cute with the mystery but I also wonder if they're trying to balance the slow burn of "a vast an insidious conspiracy" with people's expectations of a big budget HBO show.

Regina King is a pretty great actress though.
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Nintex

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2019, 05:59:49 PM »
Impressed so far interesting enough for me to keep watching at least.

It sorta mimics the movie in a strange way
spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you consider Judd "the comedian" and his murder and history the "catalyst"' of what comes next
[close]

As for Veidt
spoiler (click to show/hide)
It is not yet established that it is Veidt (but it probably is). It is also not established if the events are happening in the past(which would explain his death)/present or future.
[close]
🤴

bluemax

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2019, 11:57:40 PM »
Impressed so far interesting enough for me to keep watching at least.

It sorta mimics the movie in a strange way
spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you consider Judd "the comedian" and his murder and history the "catalyst"' of what comes next
[close]

As for Veidt
spoiler (click to show/hide)
It is not yet established that it is Veidt (but it probably is). It is also not established if the events are happening in the past(which would explain his death)/present or future.
[close]

Yeah the Man in the manor subplot is so fucking weird and there's a LOT of assumptions about who he is. Whoever he is he is clearly obsessed with Dr Manhattan's origin.
NO

Joe Molotov

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2019, 12:10:56 AM »
I enjoyed the first two episodes, I’ll keep watching.
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agrajag

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2019, 08:35:12 PM »
I tried watching this, it's fucking boring.

Nintex

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2019, 08:40:01 PM »
Please remove the corpse of Mr agrajag
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agrajag

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2019, 08:58:39 PM »
I don't know what that means. Is that a line from the show?

bluemax

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2019, 11:49:05 PM »
If you are into the show, the Petepedia stuff is super good to read: https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia
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Joe Molotov

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Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2019, 03:43:50 PM »
Silk Specter's giant blue dildo. :lol Sorry Nite Owl, once you've gone blue, nothing else will do.
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