Final Fantasy VII Remake |OT| The Unknown Journey Will Continue

[Himu]

SMT games also have auto battle. Who cares. Auto mode does not a bad battle system make. It's to make battles with mooks go by as fast as possible. No different than auto-attack in FFXII or setting AI in DQ to "don't use magic" until you need to control your party.

More evidence they lifted from ps2 era SMT games when making FFXIII though. Bunch of hacks.

FFXIII's problems had nothing to do with the battle system and everything to do with it barely being a jrpg. Real bad game. Turrible.

[Himu]

Bringing back magic have a charge time like in IV/X-2/XII

Tying the higher damage spells like Ga spells to long charge time

Any FF that with ATB that doesn't have magic charges One of the best innovations of FFIV completely wasted. VIIR truly is the next evolution of X-2 combat I've always wanted.

[Positive Touch]

the knockdowns can get frustrating, but it forces you to pay a lot more attention to battles. if you could rip out an attack with full iframes every time you got an atb charge this game would be braindead easy.


i'm making my way through the shinra tower now; hopefully i'll be able to see the wacky new twist by tomorrow.

[Himu]

I'm finished up with quests and should be finished with the game tomorrow myself.

Despite claims it's an action rpg, the combat is very much about taking turns. Don't cast a spell if the enemy has used their turn yet and make sure you're in good position to cast.

battle system.

[Himu]

I'm with you, Cindi. I feel like they kept the turn based strategy and ideas from the og just turning the time bar into melee attacks, blocks and dodges, and it works.

It's essentially a turn based game where instead of holding down attack on a menu you hold down attack button. It achieves the same purpose. Then when you guard and switch to another character they guard for a while, essentially using a "turn". Enemies stop attacking entirely. There's an exchange of blows. Guarding is much better and more reliable than evading as well.

Even when you attack or use an ability the character runs to the enemy first. No different than in say, KOTOR, FFXII, or an infinity engine RPG. To say it's a pure action rpg is pretty hilarious to me.

FFVIIR's battle system is essentially a combination of Valkyrie Profile 2, FFX-2/XII/XIII into a blender. It's muy bueno.

[Himu]

See, when I think of an arpg, I think of a game where I can use hitbox knowledge and avoid attacks. In FFVIIR so many attacks are unavoidable and so little of the combat feels anything to do with reflexes. Say, being hit with a spell from a Sahagin to get Toaded as a quick example. In something like Kingdom Hearts enemies have clear attack patterns to avoid. It's the same for something Dark Souls or Ys. FFVIIR doesn't feel like that at all. Reno's still going to put Trine on you.

Like those dudes in Kingdom Hearts. The fat Heartless. You can't damage them from the front so you have to hit them in the back.

In FFVIIR if you are attacking body parts, it's by manually selecting the body part like in Vagrant Story or some strategy game.

So little of the actual strategy has anything to do with positioning like that and you're in a menu half the time. I guess you can say it's a hybrid, but I think in hindsight a lot of the action rpg concerns that I and others had completely missed the mark.

[Positive Touch]

there's still a lot that requires you to move around during the fights. hell, Tifa gets bonus damage for back attacks. gameplay to me feels like a combo of FF7 and crisis core that was massaged into something much much better than either of those.

[Himu]

there's still a lot that requires you to move around during the fights. hell, Tifa gets bonus damage for back attacks. gameplay to me feels like a combo of FF7 and crisis core that was massaged into something much much better than either of those.

I can agree there, but it still doesn't feel like a pure action rpg to me. It's not like it's a requirement to beat them by hitting them from the back.

It's cool we all have different takes on it while still liking the combat though.

[Bebpo]

Yeah, so I spent the night doing about half the last set of quests, most with sidequest bosses. Played a ton as Tifa using the recommendations here. Her little jabs do really build up stagger quickly (and atb) even though they don't do a lot of damage. These helps a lot on non-magical staggers (especially without Aerith in the party) and the constant atb being full lets her be really useful as support. I got the time materia and put it on her and have haste on all 3 characters within the first 10 seconds or so.

Also the whole movement, play field being important is a very good thing. It's been good since Grandia 1 and every turn-based rpg where movement mattered was better for it. Now it works super well here. For example I did the ghosts sidequest for the missing children and I was getting my ass kicked, I'd fire spells and the ghosts would disappear and it would miss. Hell, I couldn't land a fucking assess on them because they would disappear and dodge assess! So I quit out and adjusted equipment accordingly and lured the ghosts to disappear and reappear with a set of slashes which I dodged and then countered with fire magic and physical to their face and when they did that death aura thing while it is highly damaging and your AI friends are dumb and will get murdered by it, since it gets them to stop vanishing and moving you just back out and shoot fire magic and boom they're staggered and you unload on them (I love using Cloud's infinity end wind up on staggered enemies to finish them off).

Then I did one of the lost chocobos with the gravity & black hole shooting dragon. I lost my 2 allies and was stuck with just Tifa so instead of reviving them I was like let me see if I can learn how to dodge the patterns and do this 1 on 1 and yeah once I took in all the attack patterns and learned how to avoid them (since gravity in FF will never kill you), I beat the dragon with like 10hp just by not taking any damage from the non-gravity attacks and keeping pressure on until I got a stagger and then finishing it.

I like that the battles have you consider you typical weak points, buffs, debuffs, etc... but also consider positional and timing and movement in attacking and defending. I feel like FFVIIr's battle system is more strategic than a ton of turn-based rpgs and that's something I never thought I would say about an arpg. I've always felt arpgs were less strategic than turn-based and just mindless mashing and dodging. VIIr's battle system has more depth and is better than XII's gambit system.

Bringing up FFXIII is weird too, the battle system is pretty good (I'd take VIIr's battle system over it), but the battle system was the highlight of XIII and not one of the many problems. The nonsense unengaging plotline, lame cast, and copy & paste dungeons that just went on and on and on until you were drained of all motivation to keep playing are XIII's issues. XIII tries to be FFX and VIIr but totally failed in game design and writing and the battle system on its own wasn't enough to save it. XIII's battle system in a good game with a good story would've been fine.

[Himu]

VIIr's battle system has more depth and is better than XII's gambit system.

Nah. Combat aside your Ally ai and options are far more limited than XII. Hard disagree. In XII you can allocate AI to tell them strategically when and where to apply a specific strategy. If you want heals at < 25% hp you can do that. You can get a Decoy Gambit, set it to a high hp character like Basch, equip self: hp < 50% -> Berserk when things get hairy to increase his power. Now he will use himself as a Decoy, allowing you to target the enemy tactically from afar. You can buy gambits depending on enemy type and even weakness type. In FFXII International you have every Gambit unlocked at the shop from the beginning. It is not any way more in depth than XII's gambit system. FFVIIr does not have that level of customization of Ally behavior and micromanagement of the minute to minute decision making in battle.

The battle system itself is debatable. I personally think they're probably on par with each other with XII getting an edge. XII hunt fights are incredibly in-depth for a final fantasy game.

[Bebpo]

I'll give you that the AI is much better in XII. Putting gambit-like AI for your teammates in FFVIIr would be great.

But on the controlled character I'd put VIIr over XII's combat. Obviously the spells and enemy count are a lot smaller in VIIr so less unique battle situations, but I think generally they're better here.

[Bebpo]

One thing I keep forgetting to mention is how it's cool even the magic spells have an extra layer of strategy to them. Like how blizzard spells have a delay as the crystal forms before the pop damage, so if it's a moving enemy you're probably going to miss the bulk of the blizz damage and it makes sense to try to stagger them and save your MP to blast blizzard spells on stagger in that case.

Or if lightning works, since that's instant vertical, it's always safe to pull off and hits moving targets. Fire series has generally good horizontal tracking but if an enemy runs behind you're gonna miss so you have to keep that in mind. And Aero, I don't use much, but I like that it has a wind knock back which I could see having some use.

Also the game definitely borrows stuff from FFXIV's battle system, which is great. Like the Aero pushback above is straight out of Garuda, I like how Barrett can literally be an MMO tank where you put on steelskin damage reduction buff and lifesaver taking damage in place of your teammates. Give him some more DEF buffs, and he has the highest HP and a cure spell and Barrett is basically a Paladin.

Nomura's biggest weakness seems to be he gets lost in scope and keeps wanting to add and add and add, which seems to have doomed Versus along with internal politics at SE, as long as he keeps the scope reigned in like KH and VIIr he's a great gameplay designer for battle encounters and cutscene action.

[Himu]

I still ultimately think FFXII has better gameplay due to the size of the world/dungeons and encounters. VIIR's encounters are too pre-made and lack an organic feel. Tonight I went through collapsed highway twice to find some Corneo door to finish off his stash. The enemies reloaded all in their usual places and none chased me beyond their starting point. In XII, if you run away you might end up having 6-8 different monsters tailing you. XII also has more hazardous monsters. Sleeping T-Rex's, dungeons with entirely different set of monsters depending on the weather (sunny vs rainy). You might encounter a super strong enemy that's level 40 at level 5. That type of thing adds a sense of danger and adventure to the game. Once, I went into a cave where there were flans 30 levels above me and i had to survive the getaway. XII is full of grest personal gameplay stories like that. In terms of exploration, encounter design, monster variety, dungeon design, world design, VIIR isn't even close to XII.

That doesn't mean it's bad. It's actually very great stuff. But put together, XII is still my gold star for FF gameplay. I disagree entirely that VIIR is better than XII's systems whole heartedly.

None of this takes away from VIIR being a great game. But when you say the systems are better than XII, I just ..well, I disagree.

[Himu]

Also the game definitely borrows stuff from FFXIV's battle system, which is great. Like the Aero pushback above is straight out of Garuda, I like how Barrett can literally be an MMO tank where you put on steelskin damage reduction buff and lifesaver taking damage in place of your teammates. Give him some more DEF buffs, and he has the highest HP and a cure spell and Barrett is basically a Paladin.

I love this too. It's also why I love playing Aerith. Can play from afar and micromanage battle with the menu. Very FFXII/XIV esque. Barret is fun af to play as well.

[bork]

https://twitter.com/ThisIsXel/status/1255496381650866176

[TakingBackSunday]

God this game fucking rules

[bork]

https://twitter.com/GenePark/status/1255959882601299970

[Pissy F Benny]

the weirdest one has to be lightening and louis v

[Himu]

The FFXIII LR fashion ads

[Himu]

https://twitter.com/GenePark/status/1255964690775146497

[Joe Molotov]

When's the FF7 x JNCOs collab?

[Himu]

whoever wins, we lose. Both suck.

[Tasty]

Final Fantasy vs. Capcom when

[Rahxephon91]

Eh I like Lightning. I like the cast of XIII because they didn't feel too over the top. I know popular opinion is that they and the game were bad, but I don't care. I did'nt find them annoying like most jrpg casts. But playing VIIR, I can see a bit more how the cast in that game flattered. Yet, as much as I think VIIR is a much improved take on XIII, I don't dislike XIII. Fun battle system, I think on ok if poorly told story, and fantastic visuals.

I don't remember liking Tifa so much. I loaded up my old PS1 save for VII and my party was Cloud, Cid, and Tifa. I probably used her because she was the girl and I remember I got Yuffie purely by accident and late, so I was already comfortable with my party. I probably would have used her as she reminds me of Selphie from VIII and I usually like the nerdy girl characters in these games.

That said, I don't really have fond memories of the main party of the original VII. I like Cloud, Cid, and Red XIII a lot. The supporting cast is really good though.

In the Remake I still find Tifa kind of boring, but everyone else is far more engaging now. I just feel like Tifa feels like the boring good girl you will end up with compared to Aerith who is far more entertaining.

But I don't have a rich history with VII like the rest of you. FFX was the first FF I played as during the PS1 days my dad bought me an N64 and honestly the whole PS1 generation is such a blur to me. I would have only been 7 when FFVII came out and none of my friends had PS1s. It was a pure N64 life. So I played mostly Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. Now during the 90s I would see ads and whatnot and they all looked cool to me, but I mean as a kid living in the suburbs I spent most of my days outside anyway so I wasn't too into video games. My first real Final Fantasy experience was the Spirts Within and the Toonami review of FFX.

So like it's 2001 and well I'll be honest white flight is fucking real. So going into my pre-teens and with my friends moving away I did start playing games more. My dad got me a PS2 for Christmas and my mom got me GTA3. Going to blockbuster was a huge thing my family did during Holidays and the summer. So the first post Xmas visit there I rented FFX and Zone of the Enders as I was aware of FF(thanks to commercials, the movie, and toonami and also I was getting into anime). And I really liked it because it felt like some grand adventure. But I also remember getting to that first battle with Sin and getting my ass kicked because I thought since it was an rpg you just automatically leveled, so I never touched the sphere grid.

But yeah before going back to school I bought with my Xmas money the GH version of FFVII from Blockbuster and played it and somehow beat it. But looking at my save file now I don't fucking know how I did. People's materia is all messed up and I'm using some weak weapons.

But I spent a lot of those PS2 days actually trying to play a lot of PS1 games. FFVIII I bought with some birthday money from best buy in 2002. I thought I was lucky as fuck to find a copy of it for some reason. I also thought it was one of the best FF games back then for some reason. I still think it has some of the coolest aesthetics and music in the series. I swear I spent a lot of my teens with limited money hunting down Square's PS1 games.

[Rahxephon91]

Coolest shit I ever saw.

[BIONIC]

 

[Positive Touch]

well i enjoyed the shit out of the end of this game. can't fucking wait to see what they're gonna do next.

[Rman]

Tifa is nasty. Use Chi Trap or Starshower, plus her "build up" attacks increase stagger percentage for free.

I thought Aerith was dead weight personally.

Just speaking from a high and mighty platinum trophy player

Aerith is a beast, though.

[demi]

She was pretty useless for me. What do you want me to say? I beat the game on Hard, I got the plat. Aerith wasn't "a beast" I used pretty much everyone else over her (considering she's not in the game for half of it)

[Rahxephon91]

She’s a potential beast, but hardly in your party.

Like I’m at the split party dungeon and I see all her weapons that I have and their abilities. But what’s the point of taking the time to earn them? Games almost over and I won’t even be able to use the combat simulator to grind for them until pretty much the end of the game.

Maybe for a hard mode run, but I’m not really into that.

[Rman]

She was pretty useless for me. What do you want me to say? I beat the game on Hard, I got the plat. Aerith wasn't "a beast" I used pretty much everyone else over her (considering she's not in the game for half of it)

The double spell stuff is super broken.

[demi]

Its also super useless on hard mode where you can't use items or restore MP in battle or in the field

[bluemax]

I actually like Barrett more as the healer in this game. He builds ATB so much faster and he has the ability to draw damage to himself and cut damage. If you use Prayer then his lower MP isn't as much of an issue. As long as you don't get interrupted. Interrupts and stuns from enemies are so annoying.

Also I beat the game on normal barely using attack magic in all honesty. Shit most of the time my materia setups were terrible because I was just juggling things around trying to max everything out (which I didn't). I kinda cut back on magic midway through the game when it felt like I was always out of MP. I just went with elemental on Cloud's weapon and used chakra and prayer a ton.

I was kind of annoyed that some parts of the end game didn't give you good opportunities to swap materia. Getting into a boss fight with only Aerith and Barrett and having a kinda poop set of materia made that fight drag (and I was afraid of retrying and having to fight the previous boss again). There was some weird and inconsistent check pointing at the end of the game.

Still, it's cool to read back the past few pages and see how many different play styles the game accomodated.

[Himu]

Lmao at Shinra still having that tacky self fellatio museum at Shinra building entrance

[Bebpo]

Got to the Shinra building. Kinda weird that the game has been really thorough on every step of the trip and then you climb the stairs and then it just cuts to being at Shinra building. Feels like a section is missing of running top-side to Shinra HQ. Would've rather had you play out getting to the HQ than some of the stuff before Pillar Assault where it stretched out a ton.

[Rahxephon91]

Would have been nice to have more upper plate stuff. Easily could have had more more world building with you passing through on you way to the Shinra Building.

[Bebpo]

Actually one other thought I have.

I think the character redesigns are GREAT
The background/environment redesigns are GREAT
the enemies/mecha redesigns are pretty good usually

But I don't like the summon redesigns (+Behemoth). Like this isn't really unique to VIIr, ever since we hit "realistic HD graphics" with FFXIII I've felt like the classic summon monster redesigns each game have been pretty hit or miss. I get that they want to mix it up so it's not just doing the same designs over and over and over, but like Ifrit here is fine, but Leviathan looks kinda off/ugly and I wasn't too big on Shiva (then again I can't think of the last Shiva design I liked), and I saw in the tips section (because the tips loading section keeps spoiling summons before they're introduced for some weird reason) the picture of Bahamut and it looked pretty disappointing too. Moogle & Chocobo and Fat Chocobo are good. I don't even mind the Carbuncle redesign making him a kawaii pet.

I feel like a lot of the tried and true classic summons though worked better as stylized colorful designs. FF8 & FF10 were some of my favorite. Diablos in FF8 is amazing and FF10's Yojimbo is the best.

FF14's been interesting in that at times they've been extremely authentic to taking classic summons like FF8's Diablos and just remaking it with a higher polygon count/textures/animations, other times they'll do their own re-designs and it's hit or miss. I thought their Leviathan was real good




In this FFVII remake Leviathan and Behemoth Type-0 felt more like Monster Hunter monsters, like Behemoth had the red energy effects on the horns straight out of Monhun.

[Bebpo]

I feel like they're trying to make the summons feel more ethereal in VIIr with all the translucent stuff. I just prefer the summons more solid looking. Ifrit looks solid in VIIr.

I actually really liked the cartoon-y summon monster designs in World of FF. That was such a great love letter to FF. Too bad it didn't sell well enough for a sequel.

[Bebpo]

Yeah, looking at this, I've never really liked any of the Shiva designs, so I guess this FFVIIr one's fine. Most of them are just a naked girl in blue 

Worst was the fucking FFXIII motorcycle though. Generally the XIII stuff was....ok in a weird way, but motorcycle Shiva was the low point there.

[Bebpo]

Actually I'm gonna throw my vote in for the recent re-design of Shiva in FF14. Maybe it's a little too goth warrior than elemental, but dual-ice sword Joan of Arc Shiva is pretty cool

[Positive Touch]

thinking about that last boss theme

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[El Babua]

The music in this game might be the best game soundtrack since Chrono Trigger ngl

[Himu]

Bahsmut is in this??

[tiesto]

Lmao at Shinra still having that tacky self fellatio museum at Shinra building entrance

A lot of the bigger companies I've been to/worked at have museums like this in their lobby.

[Positive Touch]

Bahsmut is in this??

finish the game so we can see your reactions to the ending

[Positive Touch]

Lmao at Shinra still having that tacky self fellatio museum at Shinra building entrance

A lot of the bigger companies I've been to/worked at have museums like this in their lobby.

look real closely at the museum too because there's a hilarious Easter egg in it

[Himu]

Bahsmut is in this??

finish the game so we can see your reactions to the ending

Just showered and now I'm going to finish it. Wanted to save the Shinra building for its own one long session. 

[Rman]

Shinra was really well done.  I loved that whole segment.  Scarlett is too good. 

[Himu]

Lmao at Shinra still having that tacky self fellatio museum at Shinra building entrance

A lot of the bigger companies I've been to/worked at have museums like this in their lobby.

look real closely at the museum too because there's a hilarious Easter egg in it

Well? We're waiting.

[Rman]

Lmao at Shinra still having that tacky self fellatio museum at Shinra building entrance

A lot of the bigger companies I've been to/worked at have museums like this in their lobby.

look real closely at the museum too because there's a hilarious Easter egg in it

Well? We're waiting.

Fun little fan theory about FFX's world being linked to FFVII.

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-remake-shinra-easter-egg-ffx2

[Himu]

Thought you meant the usual museum on the first and second floors but there's a literal museum on floor 61

[TakingBackSunday]

So I finished this last night and not gonna lie

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I thought the Shinra building was well done but I was a little bummed the eeriness of the party breaking out of the prison cell was gone.  Since we've been introduced to Seph many times before, the mystique would be gone I guess...but that was still my favorite part of the original midgar section

[close]

[Himu]

the X-2 connection. I've been Team Spira and Gaia are connected since I was 18. Finally, I get resolution

Ancients had airships

[Himu]

Personally I've been connecting that X and VII are connected the whole time because for the first time since X monsters are referred to as Fiends. That's a X trademark and unique to that game. It's not used in regularity in any other FF besides its sequel...until now.

[Himu]

Unpopular opinion: playing as Tifa is the opposite of fun. Her solo VR mission proves this.

[demi]

I'm so glad you said that because I totally thought the same when I played Aerith solo

[Himu]

I'm so glad you said that because I totally thought the same when I played Aerith solo

Not everyone has taste.

[Bebpo]

No, playing as Barrett with a physical attack weapon when there are flying enemies is the worst.

Against ground enemies, they're fun, but since there's so many flying enemies it's kinda a pain putting those weapons on Barrett to learn their moves so you can get back to shooting weapons.

[Himu]

Barrett, short range attack.

Barret with gun arm against flying enemies is like cheese in a grater.

[Himu]

Like in the OG you can buy melee weapons for Barret.

It's temporary though. I've honestly never had a situation against flying enemies with a short ranged weapon.