The core issue here isn't that interesting and I thought it was dead after Sophia basically said the mods/admins were probably totally already discussing this and anyone who wanted an answer should approach them in private because lol like they're going to interact in the constructive thread but
I swear they're getting less self-aware in there
Weiss seriously arguing 'they started it':
https://www.resetera.com/threads/constructive-community-discussion.270630/page-101#post-69990777You're right. It's their own damn fault if they're dying. And these people are so awful on so many levels, including because they're helping the propagation of the disease. But does it mean it gives anybody a duty to spit on their dead bodies? Definitely not.
Like I said in another post above, I think there's a huge difference between lacking sympathy for obvious reasons toward someone's death, and creating posts playfully shitting all over their dead body. The latter accomplishes nothing, except a very brief sense of self-righteous superiority for the people creating these posts. Was anything gained from this except for nurturing a spiteful and vindictive environment? I don't see anything positive coming out of this kind of thing. Quite the opposite actually, I think it can create a lot of damage to the community in the long term.
And I think the logic in what you're saying is interesting, and it's the same logic everybody trying to justify this behavior also have. If I understand correctly, because these people are so awful and because we're "not people to them", it's our right to become as awful as they are. They're horrible people, so it gives us the right to become horrible too. Am I understanding correctly?
It's a bit cliché (OK, really cliché...) but you know: "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you." It has never been so true.
Why should we transform into awful people just because they are? Is it some kind of competition? Is it for the short and vacuous joy it can provide? Is it really worth it? I personally don't think so. Nothing good can come out of this, and it's definitely not something that needs to be encouraged and nurtured within a community like ResetEra, with the identity and values it claims to have.
No see, I'm never going to be as horrible as them until I actually become an antivax immigrant hating everythingphobic bootstrappers, and that ain't happening. Despite what schoolteachers tell you it does, actually, matter who started it.
Maybe the reason these rules you want aren't hardcoded into the site is that questions of morality are more complex than "be nice all the time even to the people who make life worse for everyone."
Oh my god......... This is all blowing my mind. I can't believe what I'm saying can be seen in any way as controversial. WTF.
Sure, go wish death on people and spit on their graves all you want.
I'm out.
It's not controversial at all, and I think, at least nominally, we should be at a point where it's not up for question.
But, that's where we are right now in an age of right wingers and plutocrats creating a neverending propaganda machine that treats everyone not like them as the enemy, and we're at this point because they dragged us all to this point. I don't think there's a way to stay upright through that, let alone when the moral conundrum is "some randoms on the internet aren't sympathetic to people who marched to their deaths, infecting who knows how many others."
But then deep flaw shows up to outdo him with, basically, people are too tired to not grave-dance, it's
cruel to ban grave-dancing those we've deemed the enemy, and also the rule doesn't even apply because these are just normal people:
I think you are viewing this always being some extremely willfully petty "fuck you too then, I'll be a monster right back" when that's usually not the case. People only have so much energy to spend caring about others. It isn't infinite. People seeing these deaths and instead thinking more of the people they hated, the people they hurt, the people that are now at risk due to them spreading the virus further... pretty hard to fault harsh reactions. I may find some of them personally frustrating to see too for various reasons, as I said previously, but it's not like I don't know why many of them are made.
Now, you do say you think just lacking sympathy is different than "playfully shitting". Yet you also seem taken aback by Weiss describing their thought process even though it is not really related to the latter; you don't seem to be absorbing what they're saying. This conversation has been very concerned about how falling into this behavior is only bad for the community, but there are people in the community who will be a done a disservice by that line of thought. Is there not a point at which it becomes cruel to demand you be eternally respectful of people who view you and people like you as less than human, people who may be actively trying to make your lives worse if not outright cause you harm? Who, in this case, are also keeping this deadly pandemic going and going for inane reasons? Is this burden being placed on people really any good for the community either?
Of course, Weiss already put it well enough too; morality is not so simple. Like I'm not going to say it's perfectly healthy mentally to indulge in that kind of thinking, sure. But no, please, come on, that quote is not all that true here. Anyone indulging in that is absolutely not in some competition with actual bigotry. Even if we're just talking about other civilians without any real power, there are some very key differences between viewing someone as the monster they chose to be and viewing someone as lesser because of who they are. There is a great deal of nuance and context here and it cannot be boiled down into everyone deciding to be "awful".
...also, there is something about this entire discussion around this rule that I want to point out. None of the threads you're talking about here are actually "obituary threads". While I guess the rule probably more or less applies to these threads by default, as written it's not really intended for news articles about random civilians like these because they're not public figures. They're inherently going to be a different kind of discussion than that rule is meant to govern because nobody actually knows anything about the people they're about - nobody has an existing connection with them that needs to be worked through. And meanwhile, it's true that rule hasn't been perfect when it comes to actual obituary threads. But the problems with it were mostly, like, letting people talk about how totally great and noble people some conservative politicians really were while effectively shutting down anyone pointing out that they did horrible things that affected tons of people's lives, that any surface level good things they did for very selfish and longterm harmful reasons, etc. etc. I think the vague part of it that allows for moderation discretion has now actually been used to some good results since back then - certainly having a lot less patience for mindless praise of bad people who abused their power - but I admittedly haven't been in every obituary thread to see if that's remained the case, I guess.
Era members currently supporting the Leopards Eating Jerk's Faces party, not really remembering how the other part of that joke goes.
