Author Topic: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back  (Read 7269 times)

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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2020, 02:32:09 PM »
NtGay

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2020, 02:32:20 PM »
NtGay

D3RANG3D

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2020, 02:35:00 PM »


This is actually pretty well done. :lawd

Killua's dad was in Star Trek. :o

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2020, 02:39:08 PM »
remember watching trek movie and finding the borg queen alluring, but not knowing why  :lol



just want her to mommy dom me  :noah





 :nope no, not like that  :oreilly
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Tasty

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2020, 02:40:01 PM »


This is actually pretty well done. :lawd

Killua's dad was in Star Trek. :o

:lol I usually see the opposite comparison, that Killua's dad is Khan. :lol
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D3RANG3D

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2020, 02:42:13 PM »


This is actually pretty well done. :lawd

Killua's dad was in Star Trek. :o

:lol I usually see the opposite comparison, that Killua's dad is Khan. :lol

That's the joke.  :-[

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2020, 02:44:28 PM »
 :lol
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2020, 02:46:26 PM »
NtGay

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2020, 02:52:46 PM »
I guess II would be considered the best movie?

Not sure if I ever saw all of it.   :-[  I remember thinking III was kind of boring, enjoyed IV, V was...a thing, and I always just kind of forget about VI apart from Klingon Christopher Lloyd.

Edit: He was in III.   :lol  OK, what was VI?  Kirk gets framed and goes to prison?
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2020, 03:07:55 PM »
I never watched any of the old ST movies, which ones are good? :idont

1 - flawed but good Star Trek. Watch Directors Cut.
2 - great but might hit less if you haven't seen Space Seed. Do so before watching.
3 - I like it but it's not perfecr, much less good. It's enjoyable and crucial for Kirk's later development.
4 - my personal favorite Trek movie. It has 80's SAVE THE WHALES all over it and it's totally of its times but it's fucking hilarious and I'm a sucker for time travel shit.
5 - we don't talk about this one.
6 - the best Trek film. A culmination of the entire series as Kirk's character fights the racism he has towards Klingons. This is pure Trek and by far the best film the franchise has to offer.

TNG's First Contact is good. Generations is fun. The rest are forgettable.

JJ Trek, I like the original Star Trek. It gets dumb but I still like it. Into Darkness does not exist. Beyond is okay and the best Trek movie since First Contact not that means anything.
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bork

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2020, 03:09:35 PM »
OK, wow, didn't know that V was so reviled.   :o

Beyond felt like more of a long TV episode than a movie, if that makes sense.  Some of the TNG movies feel that way to me, too.  Not that it's a bad thing, but I guess they just don't seem as epic.
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Esch

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2020, 03:13:24 PM »
Aren't the TNG movies reviled? Most trekkies I know seem to hate them.
given how shit the new ones are I can't imagine they're that bad

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2020, 03:16:39 PM »
Aren't the TNG movies reviled? Most trekkies I know seem to hate them.
given how shit the new ones are I can't imagine they're that bad

They're pretty bad, even compared to the Abrams stuff imo.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2020, 03:18:31 PM »
Aren't the TNG movies reviled? Most trekkies I know seem to hate them.

No. First Contact is regarded as among the best Trek movies and is (or was) the finale to the Borg story for Picard.

Generations is ok but it's not awful.

Insurrection has okay ideas but poor execution. I like it a lot. It feels like a higj budget TNG ep and I love it for that.

It's mostly Nemesis that gets the ire. Imagine last gen gray Gears of War color palette in Star Trek.
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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2020, 03:18:54 PM »
The TNG films veer away from what people liked about TNG to make them more movie like, but as standalone movies they're just not that good.

Voyage Home is probably the best movie in terms of standing on its own feet as a movie and not needing to know shit about anything going in.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2020, 03:27:15 PM »
Anyways, apologies to MMrasu. Sorry for calling you names and a snitch. Turns out Nintex is the snitch.

I said I liked Picard. Not love. I love Star Trek and saw many things I like about Trek in it. I don't think it was all that great but it was enjoyable enough for me to get a Star Trek fix. I have plenty of criticisms but enjoy it enough to let them slide.
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2020, 03:30:25 PM »
May I make a suggestion? No more general trek thread, make a thread for each series (group old and new maybe) and everyone can successfully stay out of each others way. No one is going to go into the Picard thread and just start talking mad shit months after they are done with it for example while people who enjoyed it will stick around.

I like this suggestion.
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2020, 03:53:43 PM »
All I want is one thread to post memes in and talk about how good Picard is.  Maybe that should be a separate thread.  Also, make a sperate thread for TNG movies and a seperate thread just for Nemisis.
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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2020, 10:46:10 PM »
I unironically love Star Trek V.  Yeah a lot of it is really dumb, but I am always entertained each time I watch it.

For best though, my vote would be still go to one of the Meyer movies, probably Wrath of Khan.

benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #80 on: May 24, 2020, 02:05:02 AM »


This is actually pretty well done. :lawd
for comparison, since it has essentially the same Kirk/McCoy conversation snippet, followed by shots of every single crew member:

benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #81 on: May 24, 2020, 02:45:59 AM »
if you're really going to split threads (lol) just make a Classic Trek thread for random shit, VomTrek and StosTrek logs, memes, etc. and then a thread for currently airing Trek where you can all argue about who the biggest taco is

benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #82 on: May 24, 2020, 02:58:01 AM »
not director's cut/extended cuts:
Star Trek: The Motion Picture - one star
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan - five stars
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock - three stars
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - three stars
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier - one star
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - five stars
Star Trek Generations - one star
Star Trek: First Contact - four stars
Star Trek: Insurrection - two stars
Galaxy Quest - four stars
Star Trek: Nemesis - two stars
Star Trek - one star
Star Trek Into Darkness - one star
Star Trek Beyond - three stars

ToxicAdam

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2020, 03:51:43 AM »
That’s a good list, I agree with all of it.

There is something about the original movie that I find compelling though. It’s such an oddly paced movie with weirdo choices in it that I can’t help but watch it every time it’s on (which isn’t often, tbh).

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2020, 07:37:32 AM »
Ok well I apologize to Cindy, to be honest the first thing I read when I woke up was her post, and it triggered me inmensly. Especially when she talked about shit I never even said.

but whatevs. Trek is the shit. Picard sucks shit through a straw.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2020, 09:49:45 AM »
That’s a good list, I agree with all of it.

There is something about the original movie that I find compelling though. It’s such an oddly paced movie with weirdo choices in it that I can’t help but watch it every time it’s on (which isn’t often, tbh).

I very much like the original movie. I understand why some people don't care for it, but for me it feels like the path not taken. A more mature version of trek ditching some of the campier aspects of the earlier show. It actually feels like a science fiction movie. A slow one albeit but one nonetheless. By the comparison the Star Trek 2009 reboot movie is exactly the direction I don't especially care for by comparison. I'm down to watch the old one at the drop of a hat because I find it really interesting. I struggle to sit through the 2009 one at all as there just isn't any meat on those bones for me.

I'm also against splitting the thread anymore. It's fucking Star Trek. You don't need 20 threads dividing it like its some super important topic. There aren't 20 star wars threads covering the different variants in the star wars universe. What you need is a more mature post style that shows that just because you don't like something, you don't need to endlessly spam post about how much you don't like something. Try talking about something you do like in the star trek universe. Instead of how much you can't shut your mouth about something you don't like. That's a good  start.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 09:56:14 AM by Stoney Mason »

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2020, 11:39:55 AM »
Nah I disagree. Legitimate criticism has as much a place in a discussion about a long running tv series, as positivity does.

Im not looking for a Star Trek safe space where all we talk about is shit we liked. There is plenty to make fun of in shit that's not as good. Wether that be Troi and Lwaxana episodes, or Picard, or Disco or whatever really.

If it's someone legitimate opinion that one thing is bad, they shouldnt be withheld from the thread simply because someone doesn't like to read negativity surrounding things that maybe they did like.

It's not like we (the people who don't like Picard) were filling the thread with nonsensical hate posts regarding Discovery (which was a turd imo) or Picard (which had its good moments, but overall the story is also a giant turd).

And me personally, I don't like it when legitimate criticism or faults are laid out, people who did like it go "Oh lord another RLM parrot blablabla", when in actuallity, most of my personal opinions were such before any RLM related content appeared. I'm pretty sure that goes for most posters in the Trek thread. We don't think RLM is infallible, or that everything they say is gospel. So to see some responses being boiled down to "oh lol you think the same as RLM so you must be a parrot go watch another of their vids and stay out of this thread".

So in a lot of cases, Cindy and or Nacho has been acting like that, even you Stoney. I don't like that because we aren't in the Trek Thread to shit on Star Trek. But just because RLM also finds a lot of the same faults that other posters did, doesn't mean we parrot RLM. That's just insulting.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2020, 11:51:59 AM »
edit: I regret this post.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 01:36:56 PM by Stoney Mason »

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2020, 12:05:44 PM »
Quote
I'm not gonna spam the thread with videos that try to validate my singular viewpoint. That is why the last thread became shit.

Noone was spamming the thread to prove their viewpoint. Noone was spamming the thread in general. This is the untrue bullshit I was referring to earlier. I barely ever saw you in the Star Trek thread, and now all of a sudden it's being spammed? Please show some receipts man.

It's perfectly fine to speak about shit you liked and also speak on things you didn't like. I'd be curious to know why you didn't enjoy Voyager that much. For me that makes interesting discussion. Im rewatching it now and I like it more than I did before.

Wtf? Now you are going to block me? For what?

Now that's insulting.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2020, 12:12:05 PM »
For best though, my vote would be still go to one of the Meyer movies, probably Wrath of Khan.

I once was at library where he (Nicholas Meyer) came to give a talk about trek. It was really interesting. He basically said before the movies he had no knowledge nor any interest in trek. And that he was basically making Horatio Hornblower movies. It's more complicated than that of course but that's basically the simplified version of what he was saying. I think sometimes it takes somebody with an outsider view on a franchise to do something interesting with a franchise instead of going inside baseball with it.

But I think all the meyer trek films are really fun. Star Trek 4 is also pretty magical to me even though he didn't direct that one. It's the one that dates itself the most, but it also feels like a perfect time capsule of that particular moment in time.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 12:22:24 PM by Stoney Mason »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2020, 12:20:16 PM »
I like Discovery and Picard. I don't like Voyager for instance.

Ummm please accompany me to discord so I can insult you and your family.  I like Picard and Voyager but I don't like Discovery very much. 
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MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2020, 12:22:26 PM »
Just FYI I actually sort of enjoyed the first few episodes of Picard.

But gotta push the narrative that mmarsu is an annoying poster who won't agree with anyone or listen to reason, nevermind have a decent discussion about it all. No mmrsu is a RLM parrot and his opinions are shit.



I also went through about 20 pages, no spamming there, no RLM videos being spammed. But hey Stoney you do you man. If you want to ignore me based on obvious bullshit, instead of actually trying to have a normal discussion ( which I dont think you ever did in the Star Trek thread, you were on the RLM hate train as much as others ) this could have been solved in a fine manner.

I hate it when people try to make shit stick that's certainly not true, and then try to insult me on top of it with unbased shit that has no basis in reality. I like you Stoney, we never had issues beyond the Trek stuff. So if you want to block me that's your perogative but I will perceive it as a personal insult. We could still talk Skyrim?

That's the last I'll say on it, I probably won't post in here no more since I don't feel like having this constant discussion with people who either don't read posts, have preconceived notions build on nothing in reality.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 12:33:34 PM by MMaRsu »

MMaRsu

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Re: Alternate Star Trek thread
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2020, 12:26:37 PM »
Anyways, apologies to MMrasu. Sorry for calling you names and a snitch. Turns out Nintex is the snitch.

I said I liked Picard. Not love. I love Star Trek and saw many things I like about Trek in it. I don't think it was all that great but it was enjoyable enough for me to get a Star Trek fix. I have plenty of criticisms but enjoy it enough to let them slide.

Dang I missed this post. Yeah also sorry to you for being a dick. And I did report Nachobro by the way, which is why Bork came in the thread in the first place I think. So I am a snitch in some way. But hey that report button isn't there for nothing.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2020, 12:26:39 PM »
I like Discovery and Picard. I don't like Voyager for instance.

Ummm please accompany me to discord so I can insult you and your family.  I like Picard and Voyager but I don't like Discovery very much.

Absolutely fine with that. Picard was an okay to good first season for me and I have hopes for the future but I found significant sections of it kinda boring or waiting for something to happen in the plot that was significant. Voyager I watched a couple of years ago after skipping it during its original run. It's fine. I like all trek to a degree. But I have zero desire to rewatch the good episodes of it and its the trek I like the least by far. I much prefer enterprise to it by comparison. I like Discovery fine. Nice action. Plot move forwards. It has the action parts that kind of remind me of tos instead of the stuffy boring bits I didn't especially like from TNG. But its all opinion. I like all trek so for me its simply a sliding scale. 

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2020, 12:28:46 PM »
Honestly, the only thing I dislike about Discovery is the time setting.  Think I'm only interested in Trek that pushes the world-building forward. 
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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2020, 12:33:15 PM »
I'm in a minority in that I liked Enterprises temporal cold war stuff, but it was probably more in the concept than the execution.

There's a fucking great sci fi show waiting to be made based on that premise.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2020, 12:33:56 PM »
Honestly, the only thing I dislike about Discovery is the time setting.  Think I'm only interested in Trek that pushes the world-building forward.

Honestly the time setting is kinda a non-factor for me. Enterprise is a pretty flawed show but I found that time setting honestly the most interesting as it kind of told stories before everything was all setup. I'm fine with future stuff of course where you can build out on the lore but in the end it all comes down to execution for me. It can be in any time period as long as they tell compelling stories that make me care in the moment. I get the desire for new stuff (new races and new conflicts) but most stuff in trek tends to be superficial so I'm cool with a deep dive on the existing stuff that adds depth.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #97 on: May 24, 2020, 12:46:19 PM »
Enterprise I was good with but it scratched that itch for me already.  I really enjoyed the temporal cold war stuff and thought it was a shame the show ended when it did.
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2020, 12:47:46 PM »
I'm in a minority in that I liked Enterprises temporal cold war stuff, but it was probably more in the concept than the execution.

There's a fucking great sci fi show waiting to be made based on that premise.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43352954-this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war

I haven't read it yet but its got a lot of praise last year. 
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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #99 on: May 24, 2020, 03:42:36 PM »
not director's cut/extended cuts:
Star Trek: The Motion Picture - one star
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan - five stars
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock - three stars
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - three stars
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier - one star
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - five stars
Star Trek Generations - one star
Star Trek: First Contact - four stars
Star Trek: Insurrection - two stars
Galaxy Quest - four stars
Star Trek: Nemesis - two stars
Star Trek - one star
Star Trek Into Darkness - one star
Star Trek Beyond - three stars

Mostly agree, but I might bump Insurrection up to a 3 because Picard gets to add another hot milf to his harem.
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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #100 on: May 24, 2020, 04:23:53 PM »
I think it would be acceptable to call an Aunt I'd Like To Fuck an ALF, right?

benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #101 on: May 24, 2020, 11:18:41 PM »
I once was at library where he (Nicholas Meyer) came to give a talk about trek.
But have you ever brought him into the courtroom to establish plot details of Star Trek II vs. Star Trek IV?

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #102 on: May 24, 2020, 11:43:12 PM »
not director's cut/extended cuts:
Star Trek: The Motion Picture - one star
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan - five stars
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock - three stars
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - three stars
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier - one star
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - five stars
Star Trek Generations - one star
Star Trek: First Contact - four stars
Star Trek: Insurrection - two stars
Galaxy Quest - four stars
Star Trek: Nemesis - two stars
Star Trek - one star
Star Trek Into Darkness - one star
Star Trek Beyond - three stars

I actually really like The Motion Picture. Yeah, I know it's more 2001: A Space Odyssey than Star Trek but it works for me. Only seen the Director's Cut, though, so maybe the theatrical cut is kinda garbo by comparison.
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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #103 on: May 29, 2020, 11:36:20 AM »
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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #104 on: May 29, 2020, 11:39:59 AM »
V good meme

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #105 on: May 30, 2020, 07:40:31 AM »
:applause


I'm in a minority in that I liked Enterprises temporal cold war stuff, but it was probably more in the concept than the execution.

There's a fucking great sci fi show waiting to be made based on that premise.

Netflix Travelers has aspects of the concept. It’s a great show.

chronovore

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #106 on: May 30, 2020, 07:44:23 AM »
DS9 is a good show.

“Defiant” with Riker is SUCH a fantastic episode! And then they unfortunately IMMEDIATELY follow up with a Lwaxana episode that also brings Keiko O’Brien at peak shrillness in.

SUCH HIGHS, SUCH LOWS. 

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #107 on: May 30, 2020, 11:27:25 AM »
:applause


I'm in a minority in that I liked Enterprises temporal cold war stuff, but it was probably more in the concept than the execution.

There's a fucking great sci fi show waiting to be made based on that premise.

Netflix Travelers has aspects of the concept. It’s a great show.

yeah, Travellers is good, but its mostly accidental - they fix a problem, and it creates new unintended problems. They stop an asteroid that would have caused a biodome in the future to be destoryed wiping out a big chunk of the population, and then all new travellers from that point on never experienced that dome being destroyed, but instead the people of that dome became a rebel faction trying to fuck up the original mission.

You also see some elements of it in Quantum Leap - the 'original mission' ostensibly being to tweak a bunch of variables in the past so that in the future Sam Beckett doesn't forget to carry the 1 or whatever, and the quantum leap experiment goes as planned rather than fucking up. But as the series progresses it gets a bit more biblical, and his job isn't doing things to salvage the original experiment at all, its to try and make the world better as a mission from god, and theres an opposed team (presumably from the devil) trying to make the world worse. But its only a couple of episodes and the finale that touch on that.

I'd really like to see something weaponising time travel and the military application of temporal mechanics doing spy vs spy shit but never big overt actions that tips 'the other side' off as to what they're up to, like obvious history book rewrites like killing hitler or whatever.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #108 on: May 30, 2020, 11:49:29 AM »
DS9 is a good show.

“Defiant” with Riker is SUCH a fantastic episode! And then they unfortunately IMMEDIATELY follow up with a Lwaxana episode that also brings Keiko O’Brien at peak shrillness in.

SUCH HIGHS, SUCH LOWS.

Lwaxana is much better on ds9. Don't get the complaint
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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #109 on: May 30, 2020, 12:05:08 PM »
I've always liked Lwaxana and Keiko because they are believably flawed. 
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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #110 on: May 30, 2020, 12:22:08 PM »
The only tolerable lwaxana episode is her and odo stuck in a turbolift, and thats because a really good character moment for odo offsets that its lwaxana

shosta

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #111 on: May 31, 2020, 05:09:12 PM »
IT IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE!  :ltg
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shosta

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #112 on: May 31, 2020, 05:51:36 PM »
Finishing up Maquis Part 1. They done kidnapped Gul Dukat :titus
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shosta

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #113 on: May 31, 2020, 10:19:07 PM »
"I'm not just any Cardassian. I'm Gul Dukat, Commander of the Second Order. You have 15 seconds to lower your shields or we'll destroy you."

:lawd
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #114 on: June 01, 2020, 01:27:13 AM »
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inglorious-treksperts/id1439126593


https://trekmovie.com/2020/05/29/bryan-fuller-describes-star-trek-voyager-serialized-year-of-hell-season-rejected-by-rick-berman/

Quote
Star Trek: Voyager was launched 25 years ago and continues to have a strong fan base, but it never achieved the same level of ratings as its predecessor, Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Bryan Fuller, who had worked on Deep Space Nine before writing for Voyager and eventually becoming a staff writer (then story editor, then co-producer), was the guest on the latest episode of the excellent Inglorious Treksperts podcast to celebrate Voyager‘s 25th anniversary, where he revealed some of the show’s inside drama.

Voyager chasing The Next Generation
Fuller spoke about how from its start, Voyager was “very much a reaction” to the more serialized Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, which had premiered two years before, adding the show was “in some ways an antidote to the vision of Deep Space Nine.” Fuller talked about how Voyager was pulled in different directions, trying to recapture the magic of TNG, while differentiating itself from DS9:

I think Voyager initially was trying to be The Next Generation and finally decided what it was going to be around season four. I think part of that in a strange way is we lost very quickly the dynamics of the Maquis interacting with a Starfleet crew. They were terrorists and committed terrorist acts and everybody was like, “It’s okay, let’s all go together.”… That’s not good storytelling. You need to know these characters are coming from a place that is culturally different, so they can’t just be regular members of the crew which it fell into very quickly to solve the problem of Deep Space Nine.

The podcasters and Fuller acknowledged that eventually Voyager found its voice and delved into some high-concept science fiction ideas. Fuller gave a lot of credit to showrunner Brannon Braga and Braga’s writing partner Joe Menosky, while pointing out their struggles with Voyager co-creator and executive producer Rick Berman:

Brannon Braga should be given a lot of credit – Brannon Braga and Joe Menosky – and it really was their two voices more commonly than anybody else’s. I think what was interesting in the evolution of the show was you could sense the creative struggle. I witnessed the creative struggle when I was working there. There was an appetite for these bigger, bolder science fiction stories. And there was a lot of resistance from Rick Berman in embracing them because he was chasing The Next Generation and was not allowing Voyager to be the show that it could be.

shosta

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #115 on: June 01, 2020, 01:04:23 PM »
Someone PLEASE tell me I get to see sexy Mirror Universe Kira again. :noah
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 01:10:47 PM by hhkcvaoitsso »
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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #116 on: June 01, 2020, 01:20:27 PM »
Someone PLEASE tell me I get to see sexy Mirror Universe Kira again. :noah

quite a few times if you're only on season 2

shosta

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #117 on: June 01, 2020, 03:46:16 PM »
Ok. I'm done with Season 2. You all were right, all the good eps were on the back end. Starting a war with a technologically superior civilization, shit's crazy :titus

Best episode was the absolutely Kafkaesque Tribunal.
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benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #118 on: June 02, 2020, 12:08:50 AM »
The funniest part of the Maquis stuff on Voyager is how they all forgive Tuvok for being a Federation spy within their ranks for months and probably why they got caught in the first place. I can see them accepting roles within the crew (i.e. all pawns of Janeway's madness) for the greater good had it not been dropped almost immediately, especially since they were given some pretty plum positions with first officer and chief engineer. But IIRC, Tom Paris openly mistrusts Tuvok more than the Maquis crew ever does. Not that you're given much of their views or even an idea of how many of the crew they are after that first season really.

Though I guess part of that is in character for Chakotay since he also totally forgives the other spy in his crew at least twice even after they hook up with the Space Mongols and try to kill everyone.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #119 on: June 02, 2020, 07:22:39 AM »
Yeah voyager was partially a victim of time and place. It still needed to be so traditionally trek but initially its trying to tell a darker story but it completely neuters itself in that regard.

I remember liking the pilot quite a bit back in the day but then being so turned off after the first episodes that I immediately dropped the show and didn't watch the series until this thread so many years later.

It does find itself later but voyager continues to be my least favorite trek ever although it was certainly interesting to watch it so many years late and there were certainly parts of it that hooked me.