Is the world burning?

[Don Rumata]

#NoChill

https://twitter.com/YEOJNl/status/1268220755994607617

Getting kicked off the cheerleader team hardly seems to be your "life ruined" anyway. 

[Mr Gilhaney]

those racist girls 

[Mandark]

I'm just waiting for a plot twist where Mayor De Blasio runs NYT. Would encompass all new york fuckery this week if they can somehow rope in James Dolan.

Funny thing is NYT reporters typically avoid sharing political opinions on social media but have no compunction openly shitting on De Blasio.

[Positive Touch]

haven't seen anything that pathetic since Ted Cruz

[Propagandhim]

https://twitter.com/danlicatasucks/status/1267975543066103814

[team filler]

When did the right wing weirdos afraid of government overreach and tyranny become the fassy cucks crying for police and military to save their streets? Did 9/11 do this?

conservatives have always praised and worshiped both military and law enforcement, for helping them live out their fantasies of brutalizing black and brown bodies 

[team filler]

When did the right wing weirdos afraid of government overreach and tyranny become the fassy cucks crying for police and military to save their streets? Did 9/11 do this?

conservatives have always praised and worshiped both military and law enforcement, for helping them live out their fantasies of brutalizing black and brown bodies 

I"m not talking about conservatives, I'm talking about the militia movement types evolving into Trumpers that support the same jackboots in riot gear and the military marching the the streets, the very thing they were killing and blowing shit up in protest of in the 90s.

their only real problem was that the blacks and browns weren't being punished enough. they were always willing to suffer more if it means the blacks and browns will get the worst of it.

[Madrun Badrun]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AngelaMWilhelm/status/1268056986102444033

[Tripon]

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1268338060762255360

[Himu]

It's great to have such a press that offers such a wide variety of viewpoints to accommodate the full spectrum of American politics.

I too like to judge the press based off opinion section articles I disagree with. It's all FAKE NEWS in the end.

Pushing hyper-reactionary bullshit in the opinion section is a classic nyt tactic but i agree, we need spaces and places for fascist voices and that includes the newspapers. free speech.

There are so many different takes in the NYT opinion section that your reaction seems the reactionary one to me.

Just as bad as Trump staff calling the entire gassing "media" lies. What is the "media"? Is it one organization? Because the paper aired that opinion does that mean they endorse it?

Just as bad as any right winger take on the media imo. Critique all you want, but when you talk about how the liberal paper is endorsing sending in troops because they had something in the opinion section makes no sense to me. And yes, it is free press.

[thisismyusername]

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1268338060762255360

So, what does that mean? Was he cured of it by the time of the murder? Did the scarring in his lungs from it cause the problem?

[Madrun Badrun]

Bad take, that I have already been called out on this page, but criticizing the few last principled media outlets as an institute for an isolated issue or article in a world of fake news contributes to the problem.  The main criticizing should be focused on the article not the fact that they ran it. 

[Himu]

I agree with you. I actually think the NYT shouldn't stop at Tom Cotton calling for military force to be used on (largely) peaceful protestors, they should take it to the next level and maybe bring on Richard Spencer or Nick Land for an opinion slot.

On one hand, the right is calling NYT dangerous and leftist because a writer said property damage is not violence.

https://twitter.com/TPPatriots/status/1268286361720717316

On the other, the left is calling NYT fascist and Nazi enablers because they ran an opinion piece.

Which is it? 

I deleted the link, but I'll repost it.

https://whorulesamerica.ucsc.edu/change/media.html

[jakefromstatefarm]

how is choosing to run a fashy piece not enabling fascism?

[curly]

I agree with you. I actually think the NYT shouldn't stop at Tom Cotton calling for military force to be used on (largely) peaceful protestors, they should take it to the next level and maybe bring on Richard Spencer or Nick Land for an opinion slot.

On one hand, the right is calling NYT dangerous and leftist because a writer said property damage is not violence.

https://twitter.com/TPPatriots/status/1268286361720717316

On the other, the left is calling NYT fascist and Nazi enablers because they ran an opinion piece.

Which is it? 

I deleted the link, but I'll repost it.

https://whorulesamerica.ucsc.edu/change/media.html

On the one hand your argument is stupid, on the other it's dumb as fuck!

[Cauliflower Of Love]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AngelaMWilhelm/status/1268056986102444033

This image keeps making me laugh.

Dude suited the fuck up cutting up water bottles.

[Tripon]

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/1268324398462668800

Oh my gawd x 10

[Positive Touch]

nyt has sucked balls long before the trump era. and you can present a nearly endless variety of opinions without giving space to fascism, racism, genocide, etc. running a piece by congressperson calling for the military to slaughter it's own countries citizens is some dumb-ass shit, but then again this is a paper that has wanted the world to read david brooks musings for almost two decades.

edit fucking dammit this thread moves too fast fuck me

[Positive Touch]

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/1268324398462668800

Oh my gawd x 10

jesus christ lady i'm trying to be outraged here please shut the fuck up for a second

[Positive Touch]

oh my god

[Himu]

That said, I thoroughly disagree with the opinion piece and I'm saddened they ran it so I do get the disappointment and don't begrudge anyone for unsubscribing.

https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/status/1268334601166106624

I'm interested in seeing where it goes from here now that the employees are actually disagreeing openly.

[Madrun Badrun]

I mean we both know that there is clearly a balancing game between moderation, platforming and powerful people being newsworthy solely because they are powerful.  Its the same shit twitter is dealing with now with Trump.  I think we'd also both tend to the side of moderation of extreme-right opinions.  But I also think this isn't 2002 and the cause of moderation is less worthwhile than the cause of actually having foundational media that can be trusted (most of the time).

how is choosing to run a fashy piece not enabling fascism?

It is.  The issue is when an instance of enabling fascism becomes 'this is an institute which enables fascism'. 

[jakefromstatefarm]

quick back of the napkin hot take: if your media outlet is supposed to be some bulwark for liberal democracy, yes, it makes total sense to filter out voices that are illiberal or antidemocratic

[Himu]

FWIW, I'm suffering from massive cognitive dissonance. I stan NYT because of stuff like the 1619 project but stuff like this and the 2016 coverage of Trump often make me reconsider. This is how Tasty must feel with Google and their spying.

My brain doesn't know how to deal with it.

[Madrun Badrun]

quick back of the napkin hot take: if your media outlet is supposed to be some bulwark for liberal democracy, yes, it makes total sense to filter out voices that are illiberal or antidemocratic

I agree.  They should have done that, and as I said its a balancing act and understandable why it happened.  What I'm saying is the contrapositive of that is dangerous in a time of fake news: fairly isolated instances of failing to be that filter does mean we should question the validity of them being that bulwark. 

because it leads to this

FWIW, I'm suffering from massive cognitive dissonance. I stan NYT because of stuff like the 1619 project but stuff like this and the 2016 coverage of Trump often make me reconsider. This is how Tasty must feel with Google and their spying.

My brain doesn't know how to deal with it.

which is fine, but remember that next-level version of this feeling is not to become more educated and just stan contributors but to declare the paper as whole fake news.

[Himu]

Don't stan the paper/brand then. Stan the contributors you like.

But the Lens section.

[Madrun Badrun]

More than anything I dislike the idea that the nyt must be defended because what, they aren't fox news? FWIW I've been reading them since I was a child, my parents had it on the table every morning, the New York Times is a part of my life for better or worse and i've seen them at their best (1619 project) and at their worst (defending indefensible wars). There's a hard limit to the "so...but what if we nuked iran" type content as a kooky  thought piece but that limit will be stretched over the next 5-7 years of economic ruin.

I dislike my position too, but I genuinely think fake news is one of the scariest things of our times, and I have no other solution than to defend the few papers that haven't fallen to the disease.   

[Himu]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-york-times-staffers-in-open-revolt-over-running-tom-cottons-send-in-the-troops-column?via=twitter_page

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Imagine being a senator and arguing about using military against your own people

[Himu]

More than anything I dislike the idea that the nyt must be defended because what, they aren't fox news? FWIW I've been reading them since I was a child, my parents had it on the table every morning, the New York Times is a part of my life for better or worse and i've seen them at their best (1619 project) and at their worst (defending indefensible wars). There's a hard limit to the "so...but what if we nuked iran" type content as a kooky  thought piece but that limit will be stretched over the next 5-7 years of economic ruin.

I dislike my position too, but I genuinely think fake news is one of the scariest things of our times, and I have no other solution than to defend the few papers that haven't fallen to the disease.

Defend good people and good journalists, not papers owned by gajillionaires who don't give a flying fuck about you. The masses are stronger and smarter than overpaid ivy league grads getting posting orders from a bunch of chodes

My graduate school program will give a paid internship at NYT. They are/were my pick.

I don't know how to feel or how to handle it.

[Madrun Badrun]

More than anything I dislike the idea that the nyt must be defended because what, they aren't fox news? FWIW I've been reading them since I was a child, my parents had it on the table every morning, the New York Times is a part of my life for better or worse and i've seen them at their best (1619 project) and at their worst (defending indefensible wars). There's a hard limit to the "so...but what if we nuked iran" type content as a kooky  thought piece but that limit will be stretched over the next 5-7 years of economic ruin.

I dislike my position too, but I genuinely think fake news is one of the scariest things of our times, and I have no other solution than to defend the few papers that haven't fallen to the disease.

Defend good people and good journalists, not papers owned by gajillionaires who don't give a flying fuck about you. The masses are stronger and smarter than overpaid ivy league grads getting posting orders from a bunch of chodes

Don't stan the paper/brand then. Stan the contributors you like.

E: basically this. for example i hate the intercept, but it has a couple contributors i like like aida chavez.

People's opinions will always coalesce based on the medium.   Keeping track of separate opinions for individual journalists is a big ask for most people.  It's the same reason we have (or at least one reason) why we have political parties and why people focus on federal politics over local.  It's the same argument as don't defend democrats, defend individual good politicians but this has consequences. 

[ToxicAdam]

Why not give bad opinions a platform? Let the public see it for what it is and that person has to live with the stigma  of that poor thinking for the rest of their career.

Quit being so afraid all the time.

[Madrun Badrun]

Why not give bad opinions a platform?

Because a hell of a lot of people don't think it's a bad opinion and will reinforce it. 

[ToxicAdam]

“ think of the children” and other variations of that argument don’t fly with me. We live in a wide open media landscape and anything Cotton printed there he could have transmitted in a thousand different ways with far more reach (collectively).

It’s not 1950 anymore where there’s 3 channels, 2 radio stations and 1 newspaper.

[Madrun Badrun]

People's opinions will always coalesce based on the medium.   Keeping track of separate opinions for individual journalists is a big ask for most people.  It's the same reason we have (or at least one reason) why we have political parties and why people focus on federal politics over local.  It's the same argument as don't defend democrats, defend individual good politicians but this has consequences.

Yeah but it's not a big ask for someone who's extremely online

TBF i feel that twitter makes this "style" of news consumption way easier because you develop a lot of familiarity with a journalist or perspective by subbing to them.

I don't have a twitter and I just want to get back what little lefty cred I have back by saying that I make that sacrifice solely because when the revolution happens, they will go for the people three degrees from the antifa leaders first while I'll be left to make your death meaningful.   

[Uncle]

trump isn't out there putting out opinion pieces but we see his dumbass opinions all the time and in the case of his most recent ones to "dominate" peaceful protesters it could actually be a major contributor to getting him out of there


the fear of "normalizing" the harmful is pretty shit

it's why we've got people saying they shouldn't put villains in media anymore because some crazy person out there might accidentally get the idea that it's a good thing to kidnap princesses

[Madrun Badrun]

Trump writes a few dozen opinion pieces a day and they are all 280 characters or less.  I think it's fair to say that they have normalized some pretty terrible things in less than a decade.

edit:  not to harp on the media still, but I am watching CNN for the first time in years because of the protests and WTF is up with the little banter that happens between Don Lemon and the white one before he hands it off to Lemon. 

[Himu]

trump isn't out there putting out opinion pieces but we see his dumbass opinions all the time and in the case of his most recent ones to "dominate" peaceful protesters it could actually be a major contributor to getting him out of there


the fear of "normalizing" the harmful is pretty shit

it's why we've got people saying they shouldn't put villains in media anymore because some crazy person out there might accidentally get the idea that it's a good thing to kidnap princesses

This is a bad argument.

Trump has normalized a lot of shit.

If anything, this opinion has put me squarely on the side of "running this was a bad idea".

 

[Himu]

10 buses worth of troops pulled up near WH

[team filler]

[Uncle]

trump isn't out there putting out opinion pieces but we see his dumbass opinions all the time and in the case of his most recent ones to "dominate" peaceful protesters it could actually be a major contributor to getting him out of there


the fear of "normalizing" the harmful is pretty shit

it's why we've got people saying they shouldn't put villains in media anymore because some crazy person out there might accidentally get the idea that it's a good thing to kidnap princesses

This is a bad argument.

Trump has normalized a lot of shit.

If anything, this opinion has put me squarely on the side of "running this was a bad idea".

 

if this particular opinion piece is the spark needed to light the fire to get people to rally against future bad opinion pieces like these, it would ironically prove the premise correct that a net positive can come out of such things

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/nrookie/status/1268240744525029376

 

[Madrun Badrun]

Biden was actually demonstrating the effect of a leg shot in that pic.

[jakefromstatefarm]

Why not give bad opinions a platform? Let the public see it for what it is and that person has to live with the stigma  of that poor thinking for the rest of their career.

because people generally dont flock to the opinions that are best argued or have the best evidence, they flock to the ones that confirm their priors or serve their narrow interests. i also think the ideal of a newspaper being over and above the everyday political fray, acting as a neutral arbiter, is just dumb

We live in a wide open media landscape.

we really dont though

[Great Rumbler]

https://twitter.com/MikeBeauvais/status/1267945114955141126

[Uncle]

lmao no

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-poll-exclusive/exclusive-most-americans-sympathize-with-protests-disapprove-of-trumps-response-reuters-ipsos-idUSKBN239347

https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/06/03/majority-of-americans-disapprove-of-trump/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/03/joe-biden-trump-poll-monmouth-298470

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/politics/trump-campaign-virus-protests-polls.html

I don't think you get this without him repeatedly being an asshole on the national stage

yes it could drive other assholes to agree with him, but there's more and more evidence that it's doing him more harm than good

[Cauliflower Of Love]

10 buses worth of troops pulled up near WH

I wouldn't be surprised if they were called in because to protect FROM the local police and whatever the fuck no name"military"-esque wanna be soldiers are running around there.

[Great Rumbler]

lmao no

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-poll-exclusive/exclusive-most-americans-sympathize-with-protests-disapprove-of-trumps-response-reuters-ipsos-idUSKBN239347

https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/06/03/majority-of-americans-disapprove-of-trump/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/03/joe-biden-trump-poll-monmouth-298470

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/politics/trump-campaign-virus-protests-polls.html

I don't think you get this without him repeatedly being an asshole on the national stage

yes it could drive other assholes to agree with him, but there's more and more evidence that it's doing him more harm than good

Trump's approval went up a few points during the early days of the 'rona [what with all the national unity and such], but it's been trending back down again since his response to the 'rona has been pretty bad and I can't imagine what's going on right now is going to reverse that trend.

[team filler]

good thing you got that third leg 

[Don Rumata]

Why not give bad opinions a platform? Let the public see it for what it is and that person has to live with the stigma  of that poor thinking for the rest of their career.

Quit being so afraid all the time.

I'm not against the general sentiment, i don't like to have people do the critical thinking for me, but space is limited and if you give every random distinguished mentally-challenged fellow space for their shit, what's even the point of editorializing? Just go on Facebook or whatever.
Also not every issue (in fact, almost none) is on a binary spectrum, where you can just present "the two sides" and be done with it.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1268362601173581831

saints? more like taints 

[recursivelyenumerable]

https://twitter.com/muneytarz/status/1267966610226253826

[Madrun Badrun]

https://twitter.com/joshfoxfilm/status/1268366550475603969

[Madrun Badrun]

https://www.wave3.com/2020/06/03/officers-walk-out-louisville-mayor-greg-fischer-protest/

[Madrun Badrun]

more good news
https://deadline.com/2020/06/los-angeles-mayor-eric-garcetti-city-officials-cutting-100-150-million-from-lapd-budget-funds-to-be-reinvested-in-communities-of-color-1202950811/

and charged instead of just fired

https://www.cnn.com/webview/us/live-news/george-floyd-protests-06-03-20/h_0ecdf84fc9274a4b5a7f4632d74c1652

[Madrun Badrun]

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Attorney-identifies-SF-resident-fatally-shot-by-15315301.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Man fatally shot by police while kneeling.

And he was Latino.  I do feel like there is an intersectionality to police brutality and may resonate more with them.  That being said without video people identify less with tragedy. 

[Mandark]

Why not give bad opinions a platform? Let the public see it for what it is and that person has to live with the stigma  of that poor thinking for the rest of their career.

Quit being so afraid all the time.

obviously wrong and dumb viewpoints can get widespread traction throughout society if given the veneer of respectability by elite institutions, no matter how many times they're debunked

for example, climate change denial

[Madrun Badrun]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/comments/gvzqcx/the_nypd_is_disguising_as_taxi_drivers_and/

wtf that can't be right

[Steve Contra]

There was a guy yelling out his window at the SF protest to vote libertarian

spoiler (click to show/hide)

tell JayDubya we don't care

[close]

[Beezy]

Watching the whole world learn how fucked up the NYPD is has been pretty great.