Author Topic: The coming console war  (Read 34301 times)

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bork

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #180 on: April 11, 2021, 11:08:07 AM »
Tim Schafer did some cult classics for Lucas Arts like Monkey Island and Full Throttle. And although he's made some 6's and 7's he never shit the bed the likes of Warren Spector have nor did he show hubris like Cliffy B. His games are still pretty good and he's a likeable dude.

Monkey Island is Ron Gilbert's baby.
:ufup

Tim did help make the first two, though.
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MMaRsu

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #181 on: April 11, 2021, 11:40:05 AM »
He did make Grim Fandango
What

paprikastaude

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #182 on: April 11, 2021, 11:54:25 AM »
Psychonauts is good. Part 2 is still multiplat though, because it was crowdfunded.

naff

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #183 on: April 11, 2021, 06:41:56 PM »
Fuck Sony.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1380476925811032065

 ???

i don't get it.

there should be nothing surprising in this piece, media corps have been incredibly risk averse for decades, not to mention in the middle of their most loss leading period (console launch) after a pandemic. sounds like bend was put to work on another project because they had nothing to work on and were allowed to be autonomous when they had something to pitch, t1x was disbanded because... who knows? very vague. sounds like the project was considered unnecessary and expensive. wholeheartedly agree with hermen on this one, canning the studio wanting to remake a remaster of TLoU sounds like a solid decision to me. terrible idea. another screecher from schrier. also hope ND don't push ahead with such a dumb remake.

should put that visual arts team to work on more important projects like the bb 60fps patch  8)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 06:51:40 PM by naff »
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MMaRsu

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #184 on: April 12, 2021, 04:47:29 AM »
Schreier the screecher 😂
What

bork

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #185 on: April 12, 2021, 07:35:39 AM »
https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1381534570273722370

This is also the case with PS3.  I wonder if this is the same on PS5? :thinking
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 07:39:54 AM by bork »
ど助平

MMaRsu

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #186 on: April 12, 2021, 08:34:07 AM »
What if you have a CFW ps3 tho ???
What

Svejk

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #187 on: April 12, 2021, 10:10:35 AM »
PS3 game patches have already been pulled from the store it seems.  I can only be optimistic that this is all part of their scheme of transferring it into this new service they're going to unveil.   :awesome

spoiler (click to show/hide)
that optimism was short lived when reality set in :fbm
[close]

Pissy F Benny

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #188 on: April 12, 2021, 10:25:50 AM »
Sony are pissing away the good will they've accumulated over the past gen by the day it seems :neogaf

krazy Ken back in charge by e3 2022 :rejoice
(ice)

who is ted danson?

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #189 on: April 12, 2021, 10:38:02 AM »
Aren't the vast majority of patches from the PSWii60 gen pretty small though, like <100mb? Why would they want to nuke them when they are still (I assume) going to host peoples digital game downloads which are several GB? WTF??
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bork

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #190 on: April 12, 2021, 11:18:19 AM »
PS3 game patches have already been pulled from the store it seems.

Are you serious!?  :dizzy

:dead

EDIT: 

https://www.ign.com/articles/players-reportedly-unable-to-download-essential-ps3-game-patches-ahead-of-store-closure
https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/105801-no-patches-for-some-ps3-games/

Quote
A growing thread on ResetEra is corroborating the list, with some users confirming that their owned games are not receiving updates. "Just popped in Lords of Shadow and sure enough, no update. This sucks because I literally just bought the DLC for it last week," Liam Allen-Miller said.

Man, fuck this company.  :lol
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Svejk

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #191 on: April 12, 2021, 11:31:12 AM »
And I thought I had a hate boner for Nintendo.  :lol  Again, this is me just being optimistic, but it seems like they're doing something to redistribute a revised infrastructure.  It's too early to tell.  From the surface, yeah, it does look like they're shutting it all down, but let's wait and see. 

Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

If people want to play these older games so bad, just emulate them... the emulators probably provide a much better experience anyways with upscaling, widescreen support, save states, etc..   :brain

HardcoreRetro

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #192 on: April 12, 2021, 11:42:58 AM »
Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

Except you can still redownload the games you already own on the Wii.

paprikastaude

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #193 on: April 12, 2021, 11:52:44 AM »
Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

Except you can still redownload the games you already own on the Wii.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/27560/~/wii-shop-channel-discontinuation

In the future, we will be closing all services related to the Wii Shop Channel, including redownloading purchased WiiWare, Virtual Console titles, and Wii Channels, as well as Wii System Transfer Tool, which transfers data from the Wii console to the Wii U console.

mormapope

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #194 on: April 12, 2021, 12:06:03 PM »
E3 would be the absolute perfect time for Microsoft to add more BC games to the catalog
 :lawd

OH!

Tasty

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #195 on: April 12, 2021, 12:08:12 PM »
Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

Except you can still redownload the games you already own on the Wii.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/27560/~/wii-shop-channel-discontinuation

In the future, we will be closing all services related to the Wii Shop Channel, including redownloading purchased WiiWare, Virtual Console titles, and Wii Channels, as well as Wii System Transfer Tool, which transfers data from the Wii console to the Wii U console.

Wii games didn't have DLC or full game downloads though. The max on each download was like 40 MB.

Nor does it have some asinine forced-obsolescence DRM check on your own disc games. :doge

Also Nintendo giving a public heads up years ahead of time is MILES ahead of Sony's sneaky shit. Short of Svejk's theory about an architecture move being true, this is incredibly shittier than how Nintendo's handled their shop wind-downs. Not sure how that's arguable...

mormapope

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #196 on: April 12, 2021, 12:14:20 PM »
There's no architecture move, if there was, Sony would absolutely make a big deal about backwards compatibility regarding this. There have been issues with cross gen versions of games on PS5, it would be absolutely miraculous if they've been working on BC software in the past couple of years.

They were sending out Vita development kits to a few developers right before these store closures were announced. They absolutely don't give a fuck.
OH!

Tuckers Law

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #197 on: April 12, 2021, 12:16:57 PM »
Yeah all this stuff kind of solidifies for me a decision to not bother with PS5.  I guess PC and Nintendo is my future for now.

paprikastaude

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #198 on: April 12, 2021, 12:50:01 PM »
Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

Except you can still redownload the games you already own on the Wii.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/27560/~/wii-shop-channel-discontinuation

In the future, we will be closing all services related to the Wii Shop Channel, including redownloading purchased WiiWare, Virtual Console titles, and Wii Channels, as well as Wii System Transfer Tool, which transfers data from the Wii console to the Wii U console.

Wii games didn't have DLC or full game downloads though. The max on each download was like 40 MB.

:confused

Say that to the now inaccessible Contra and Castlevania Rebirth.

Quote
Nor does it have some asinine forced-obsolescence DRM check on your own disc games. :doge

??? Can't say I've ever had any game with this either. Not like you'd know anything about most gaming platforms that goes beyond fanboy hearsay :doge And as someone who plays offline and unpatched whenever possible, in the entire HD era I've found less than five games really problematic unpatched from the disc. Let alone be blocked out of playing them.

Quote
Also Nintendo giving a public heads up years ahead of time is MILES ahead of Sony's sneaky shit. Short of Svejk's theory about an architecture move being true, this is incredibly shittier than how Nintendo's handled their shop wind-downs. Not sure how that's arguable...

Ok, they announced it earlier, but PSN games are announced to be downloadable still at this point. Wii is just dead. As will be DSi, 3DS and WiiU not that long into the future. lmao trying to spin the shitshow that is Nintendo online into anything desirable, just because it relates to other bad news rn. Reminds me of the goofballs that tried to chime in with prequel praise when the new Star Wars movie were also bad.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 01:01:00 PM by Spieler1 »

paprikastaude

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #199 on: April 12, 2021, 01:17:06 PM »
Sony are pissing away the good will they've accumulated over the past gen by the day it seems :neogaf

krazy Ken back in charge by e3 2022 :rejoice

Jimbo is the new Krazy, except not even meme-able and just terrible.

Nintex

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #200 on: April 12, 2021, 01:49:41 PM »


"Why?"

"Because fuck you, that's why!"
🤴

bork

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #201 on: April 12, 2021, 01:53:28 PM »
Also Nintendo giving a public heads up years ahead of time is MILES ahead of Sony's sneaky shit. Short of Svejk's theory about an architecture move being true, this is incredibly shittier than how Nintendo's handled their shop wind-downs. Not sure how that's arguable...

Exactly.  This is why I don't like what they're doing, unless the PS3 issue was some unintentional side effect, it's just being handled and communicated poorly.

https://in.ign.com/ps3/156762/news/ps3-drm-kills-digital-games-ps4-discs-report

OK, good to see that PS3 physical games will work in the future, at least.  Still sucks for PS4.
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Svejk

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #202 on: April 12, 2021, 02:05:15 PM »
PS4 doesn't play ANY legacy PS games and it still sold a metric ton...  some people complained, but it didn't seem to matter in the overall grand scheme of things..  I think the alarm bell is getting hit a bit too early...  Sure, on the surface, it looks fucked up (especially with the lack of communication. sounds like my employer), but surely there's a reason..  First, why would Cerny even mention how the PS5 is capable of legacy play and how it would achieve that?

But mostly, thanks to a wonderful, little game called Astro’s Playroom, never before has there been such a showcase honoring the PS legacy than before… I feel there’s a reason for that.  They've even restructured their studios to focus all on Team Asobi. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1 BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1
[close]

Let's Cyber

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #203 on: April 12, 2021, 02:06:15 PM »
And I thought I had a hate boner for Nintendo.  :lol  Again, this is me just being optimistic, but it seems like they're doing something to redistribute a revised infrastructure.  It's too early to tell.  From the surface, yeah, it does look like they're shutting it all down, but let's wait and see.
Maybe but I have a feeling they'll lock it behind a paywall. Maybe a revised PSNow thing with lots PSX, 2 and 3 games added in.

Svejk

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #204 on: April 12, 2021, 02:17:07 PM »
And I thought I had a hate boner for Nintendo.  :lol  Again, this is me just being optimistic, but it seems like they're doing something to redistribute a revised infrastructure.  It's too early to tell.  From the surface, yeah, it does look like they're shutting it all down, but let's wait and see.
Maybe but I have a feeling they'll lock it behind a paywall. Maybe a revised PSNow thing with lots PSX, 2 and 3 games added in.
Oh they absolutely will put it behind a paywall.. But that's the only way they'll be able to compete in this generation of KONSULL HWARZ it seems.  I hate the paid subscription route, but it is what it is. 

MMaRsu

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #205 on: April 12, 2021, 04:20:01 PM »
PS4 doesn't play ANY legacy PS games and it still sold a metric ton...  some people complained, but it didn't seem to matter in the overall grand scheme of things..  I think the alarm bell is getting hit a bit too early...  Sure, on the surface, it looks fucked up (especially with the lack of communication. sounds like my employer), but surely there's a reason..  First, why would Cerny even mention how the PS5 is capable of legacy play and how it would achieve that?

But mostly, thanks to a wonderful, little game called Astro’s Playroom, never before has there been such a showcase honoring the PS legacy than before… I feel there’s a reason for that.  They've even restructured their studios to focus all on Team Asobi. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1 BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1
[close]

Because let's face it its defacto the better console if you like to play games
What

Himu

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #206 on: April 12, 2021, 04:24:22 PM »
PS4 doesn't play ANY legacy PS games and it still sold a metric ton...  some people complained, but it didn't seem to matter in the overall grand scheme of things..  I think the alarm bell is getting hit a bit too early...  Sure, on the surface, it looks fucked up (especially with the lack of communication. sounds like my employer), but surely there's a reason..  First, why would Cerny even mention how the PS5 is capable of legacy play and how it would achieve that?

But mostly, thanks to a wonderful, little game called Astro’s Playroom, never before has there been such a showcase honoring the PS legacy than before… I feel there’s a reason for that.  They've even restructured their studios to focus all on Team Asobi. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1 BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1
[close]

Any time anyone resorts to "but it sold well" argumentative metrics they've already lost. I'm not a Sony board member. I don't give a shit how much it sold.
IYKYK

Don Rumata

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #207 on: April 12, 2021, 04:40:46 PM »
PS4 doesn't play ANY legacy PS games and it still sold a metric ton...  some people complained, but it didn't seem to matter in the overall grand scheme of things..  I think the alarm bell is getting hit a bit too early...  Sure, on the surface, it looks fucked up (especially with the lack of communication. sounds like my employer), but surely there's a reason..  First, why would Cerny even mention how the PS5 is capable of legacy play and how it would achieve that?

But mostly, thanks to a wonderful, little game called Astro’s Playroom, never before has there been such a showcase honoring the PS legacy than before… I feel there’s a reason for that.  They've even restructured their studios to focus all on Team Asobi. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1 BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE :hans1 :hans1 :hans1
[close]

Any time anyone resorts to "but it sold well" argumentative metrics they've already lost. I'm not a Sony board member. I don't give a shit how much it sold.
I am, that's why i was defending Last of Us 2 so much.

who is ted danson?

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #208 on: April 12, 2021, 05:04:14 PM »
Its time for Sony to distract us all by announcing The Last of Us 3 Remastered.
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naff

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #209 on: April 12, 2021, 06:02:44 PM »
guessing i won't be able to claim the codes for the MGS Legacy Edition if i picked that up then. been meaning to for ages. decommissioning their servers is pretty shitty. seems wild given how cheap storage is when you're working on such a large scale, and you could probably support the bandwidth required to serve ps3/vita titles with a few shoestrings.

hermen hulst is dutch right? as always, the dutch are to blame
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Tuckers Law

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #210 on: April 12, 2021, 07:24:00 PM »
The codes in the Legacy Collection are just for MGS1 and VR Missions, right?  Whole reason I bought the damn thing ages ago was to have MG1 and 2 on physical...

naff

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #211 on: April 12, 2021, 07:36:02 PM »
i have mg1 physical psx already, but idk what i did with my good psx  :doge have a pretty dodgy looking one sitting in the garage. i just wanted to replay the series from the comfort of my couch instead of my pc through a janky emulator. seems like i probably need to cfw my ps3. have the old bc ps3 and a more recent slim but i reflowed the old bc unit with a hair dryer back in the day and it melted the temp control unit too, so it's now set to maximum fan constantly which is loud af and annoying (and tbh, it's prob liable to YLOD again at any point)
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Tuckers Law

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #212 on: April 12, 2021, 07:41:52 PM »
That makes sense.

You gotta hand it to Sony, somehow they managed to already take their currently abysmal legacy support and make it even worse.  Fucking dickweeds.

naff

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #213 on: April 12, 2021, 07:46:36 PM »
i agree with svejk, this has got to be a precursor to consolidating their platform and offering a bc collection they can monetize and support more effectively going forward. can understand why they'd want to leave their ps3 / vita legacy behind them but this also seems a very callous and poorly organised move.
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headwalk

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #214 on: April 12, 2021, 07:52:44 PM »
didn't jim reaper literally say something like "the old gran autismos look like shit and no sane person would want to play them today"

naff

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #215 on: April 12, 2021, 07:54:53 PM »
if this is just the beginning of a move to push psnow more..... lol. sure, if they make actual ps1, 2 and 3 games playable via download instead of just streaming that's a step in the right direction but streaming games will always be a miss for me. i don't see how they can break the laws of physics to remove the client server lag.
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Rahxephon91

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #216 on: April 12, 2021, 08:16:19 PM »
Sony is stupid. MS isn’t working on BC because they care about their legacy or whatever shit. They are doing it because it helps them. Gamepass wouldn’t have shit if it was just current MS first party which is laughable. Having BC boosts the library of what’s possible on Gamepass. It allows them to have a digital copy of something whenever a dude watches a YouTuber talk about some hidden gem.

On the whole I doubt many people use BC. I think this whole outrage over BC is a enthusiasts concern and honestly kind of a fake one. The people that really care have the old hardware, already have the game, and or also know how to emulate it. It’s a shame maybe new fans won’t be able to play Lunar for cheap, though they will because PC emulation can come through. But what Sony should realize is having BC means you can have your sub and that dude is going to subscribe to it because he can play Lunar and Digital Devil Saga, Dark Cloud, and God of War. Unlike MS, Sony has the games and the relationships to get them.

Follow the Marvel Unlimited idea. New first party games debut 3 months later. Yeah it won’t be as good as Gamepass in that regards, but people will be fine because your first party is stronger and the possible legacy of games is greater.

naff

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #217 on: April 12, 2021, 09:30:32 PM »
a lot more people care about psx/ps2 era than og xbox or 360 bc. a lot of people that like games don't want a pile of consoles lying around their tv. it's not hard. sony would be leaving too much obvious money on the table to not be actively working on a solution imo
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mormapope

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #218 on: April 12, 2021, 09:33:20 PM »
Quote
On the whole I doubt many people use BC

You're telling me most PS5 users and Series X users aren't playing last gen games on their consoles right now?  :lol



OH!

Rahxephon91

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #219 on: April 12, 2021, 09:56:11 PM »
Come on man, that’s a technicality. PS4 and One are still current and will be until maybe the end of 2022 at this rate. We're obviously talking about retro titles.

And we know Sony has claimed in the past that BC is not used as much. I think MS even claimed that back in the 360 days when they gave up on fixing BC. There was talk in the past that the reason PS classics and Wii’s Digital console stopped was that the cost to get them up and running plus rated by the ESRB outweighed the profit. Even now the BC push from MS is pushed by MS. Not the actual publishers who just agree to it. I mean you’d think EA would try and make sure all its 360 titles were on EA access but there are plenty of holes.

So no I think it’s pretty obvious this is a very specific core gamer issue.

Then again retro game stores seem too trendy right now. And yes I’ve also noticed how PS3 software seems to go for a bit more than 360. Also pretty much every Disc Replay or whatever I’ve busted in the Midwest has an awful PS2/PS1 section, so there may be a hunger out there regardless of how small it is.


But my point was that offering BC is a long game, as having those titles ready to go and on a subscription service is going to help. In the end, I think most would be happy with simple rom drops that a supposed PS5 emulated just scale to 1080p and call it a day.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 11:33:07 PM by Rahxephon91 »

HardcoreRetro

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #220 on: April 13, 2021, 06:03:40 AM »
I have the old bc ps3

In case you didn't know. All PS3s have PS1 backwards compatability. It's not perfect though since it's emulation.

Fifstar

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #221 on: April 13, 2021, 07:20:08 AM »
Sony is stupid. MS isn’t working on BC because they care about their legacy or whatever shit. They are doing it because it helps them. Gamepass wouldn’t have shit if it was just current MS first party which is laughable. Having BC boosts the library of what’s possible on Gamepass. It allows them to have a digital copy of something whenever a dude watches a YouTuber talk about some hidden gem.

On the whole I doubt many people use BC. I think this whole outrage over BC is a enthusiasts concern and honestly kind of a fake one. The people that really care have the old hardware, already have the game, and or also know how to emulate it. It’s a shame maybe new fans won’t be able to play Lunar for cheap, though they will because PC emulation can come through. But what Sony should realize is having BC means you can have your sub and that dude is going to subscribe to it because he can play Lunar and Digital Devil Saga, Dark Cloud, and God of War. Unlike MS, Sony has the games and the relationships to get them.

Follow the Marvel Unlimited idea. New first party games debut 3 months later. Yeah it won’t be as good as Gamepass in that regards, but people will be fine because your first party is stronger and the possible legacy of games is greater.

Yeah, that topic is basically "I like to go online and complain about missing features that I wouldn't actually use in the first place".
Gulp

tiesto

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Re: The coming console war
« Reply #222 on: April 13, 2021, 12:10:20 PM »
Sony is stupid. MS isn’t working on BC because they care about their legacy or whatever shit. They are doing it because it helps them. Gamepass wouldn’t have shit if it was just current MS first party which is laughable. Having BC boosts the library of what’s possible on Gamepass. It allows them to have a digital copy of something whenever a dude watches a YouTuber talk about some hidden gem.

On the whole I doubt many people use BC. I think this whole outrage over BC is a enthusiasts concern and honestly kind of a fake one. The people that really care have the old hardware, already have the game, and or also know how to emulate it. It’s a shame maybe new fans won’t be able to play Lunar for cheap, though they will because PC emulation can come through. But what Sony should realize is having BC means you can have your sub and that dude is going to subscribe to it because he can play Lunar and Digital Devil Saga, Dark Cloud, and God of War. Unlike MS, Sony has the games and the relationships to get them.

Follow the Marvel Unlimited idea. New first party games debut 3 months later. Yeah it won’t be as good as Gamepass in that regards, but people will be fine because your first party is stronger and the possible legacy of games is greater.

Speaking as someone who plays retro games more than most on this forum...

I have PS1 and 2 (of course), but only have my PS3 hooked up and play PS1/2 BC on the PS3, just because the space under my TV is already a mess of wires and consoles.... and in fact I think PS3's upscaling makes PS1/2 look better than even the original hardware with RGB and an OSSC.

Of course, due to my genre tastes I have way more games for PS consoles than Xbox, but it's super appealing that I can run the og Xbox copy of Burnout 3 (which I recently purchased thanks to watching an interesting youtube on Criterion and Burnout) on a Series X... and I won't need to have my Scorpio and og Xbox up (still need the 360 hooked up since I don't think a lot of the Cave shmups are BC compatible yet). A PS5 that allows you to play everything from PS1 onwards, disk based, would be an absolute dream for me.

And Rahx, the physical retro market has been hot for a while, though post pandemic it exploded even more, although Xbox games are still overall pretty cheap. Even the ones you think would be more sought-after like Panzer Dragoon Orta.  Ironically enough I was looking through my FB memories and one of them was me complaining in 2013 about how overpriced retro games were getting... if only I knew  :P Even the fucking Pokemon games, which sold gazillions of copies, are soaring. Even DS is going crazy now (I saw a DQ5 DS recently go for $200!)

I'm acquaintances or friends with a lot of local retro store owners and resellers, the most popular/fastest-value-accumulating retro games tend to be:
-shmups
-survival horror
-Japanese RPGs
-first party platformers (especially anything Nintendo)

So I think that's why people don't care about Xbox/360/One retro as much since MS consoles aren't known for aforementioned genres. Which is ironic, since right now MS has the best BC.
^_^

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #223 on: April 13, 2021, 01:03:01 PM »
The dumbest thing I ever did as a young adult was trade my DS rpg collection. I was young and needed money.

But I had everything. Dragon Quest 5, that Platinum Games space rpg, the Cyber Connect one for furries...

bork

  • おっぱいは命、尻は故郷
  • Global Moderator
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #224 on: April 13, 2021, 01:19:46 PM »
A PS5 that allows you to play everything from PS1 onwards, disk based, would be an absolute dream for me.

Would have been day one for me, even if I didn't care about any PS5 releases.  A digital store with PS1-PS5 games for sale would have been amazing, too.
ど助平

Trent Dole

  • the sharpest tool in the shed
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #225 on: April 13, 2021, 02:26:43 PM »
Wow so Sony is not just apathetic regarding games preservation but outright hostile towards? :doge
Hi

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #226 on: April 14, 2021, 12:58:04 AM »
It's a trite statement to call Microsoft a software company and Sony a hardware company, but there is something to viewing this discussion through that kind of ideological lens. BC is where Microsoft's advantages as one of the world's most powerful software companies allows them to outperform Sony in a battlefield that Sony doesn't want to expend the cost to fight on. If we use this lens we can see where Microsoft might inherently view software as hardware independent because that's their ultimate model for Windows and everything else. Sony sees it all tied to the hardware because that's what they can control most easily. It's a fun ideological gambit by Microsoft that they can ultimately make Xbox into something that you just get a new revision of every so often and still can play all the stuff on. Not dumping the old hardware install base and offering GamePass services gives the impression that they're pumping value into their hardware for down the road when that won't actually be the case, it's a win-win for those of us who do want to always play that old stuff and Microsoft even if most people will just upgrade anyway.

The original Xbox One pitch was almost 180 degrees opposite from this, Microsoft wanted the Xbox One to be the center of everything, now they want the Xbox to just be another addition to your TV setup almost on the sly. Where you're like "okay, I've got Netflix setup and Disney+ setup, now I need to setup Xbox (Live) for games" and then you get the hardware for that rather than buying the hardware and then hopping into the ecosystems down the road. Microsoft is arguably faster to realize the software possibilities even when and where they fail and discard them.

Sony, by contrast, still seems to view the PlayStation venture as ultimately something that will sit at the center of your entertainment. It makes plenty of sense because the PS2 got there as a DVD player and a games player. But they still see the hardware as the key thing and they're less willing than Microsoft to simply eat the costs on the hardware to push the software. (Ironic considering this is what Sony famously did to both Nintendo and Sega!) This factors into the BC discussion because Sony sees each generation as separate because I assume they ideologically look at the specific hardware first and Microsoft much more easily sees the "software" sitting on top of all that hardware. Sony, if we apply this lens, would feel it's a waste to chase old and outdated hardware for fringe profits when they can push the newest hardware, Microsoft sees the potential advantages from having all that software available like software is available on Windows and especially the ability to sell it again for fringe profits.

As for exclusives, Microsoft has always gone through droughts where it loses the first-party push before going on a binge, buying up a bunch of developers, and "committing" to a round of releases just to let the developers "slack off" on Microsoft's dime. I'm not talking about just their Xbox stuff, look at Microsoft in the PC gaming sphere too, before Xbox even, they had this cycle ever since Ed Fries left. Hell, they had it with Ed Fries on PC. I think it's a factor of that "slacking off" which doesn't actually happen but because these developers no longer have the outside pressures, the standard time tables of getting releases out every two to three years slips and slips. And then when Microsoft has a corporate directive like "cancel everything on PC we're starting Xbox" or "cancel everything we're doing sports" or "cancel sports we're doing the 360" it creates another void and pushes things out further. I'd like to think that Xbox Games Studio is simply too large for this now, especially with Bethesda added, so we can have the best of both worlds in terms of Microsoft funding and quality releases at a good time table for PC/Xbox.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #227 on: April 14, 2021, 01:13:43 AM »
It's a trite statement to call Microsoft a software company and Sony a hardware company, but there is something to viewing this discussion through that kind of ideological lens. BC is where Microsoft's advantages as one of the world's most powerful software companies allows them to outperform Sony in a battlefield that Sony doesn't want to expend the cost to fight on. If we use this lens we can see where Microsoft might inherently view software as hardware independent because that's their ultimate model for Windows and everything else. Sony sees it all tied to the hardware because that's what they can control most easily. It's a fun ideological gambit by Microsoft that they can ultimately make Xbox into something that you just get a new revision of every so often and still can play all the stuff on. Not dumping the old hardware install base and offering GamePass services gives the impression that they're pumping value into their hardware for down the road when that won't actually be the case, it's a win-win for those of us who do want to always play that old stuff and Microsoft even if most people will just upgrade anyway.

The original Xbox One pitch was almost 180 degrees opposite from this, Microsoft wanted the Xbox One to be the center of everything, now they want the Xbox to just be another addition to your TV setup almost on the sly. Where you're like "okay, I've got Netflix setup and Disney+ setup, now I need to setup Xbox (Live) for games" and then you get the hardware for that rather than buying the hardware and then hopping into the ecosystems down the road. Microsoft is arguably faster to realize the software possibilities even when and where they fail and discard them.

Sony, by contrast, still seems to view the PlayStation venture as ultimately something that will sit at the center of your entertainment. It makes plenty of sense because the PS2 got there as a DVD player and a games player. But they still see the hardware as the key thing and they're less willing than Microsoft to simply eat the costs on the hardware to push the software. (Ironic considering this is what Sony famously did to both Nintendo and Sega!) This factors into the BC discussion because Sony sees each generation as separate because I assume they ideologically look at the specific hardware first and Microsoft much more easily sees the "software" sitting on top of all that hardware. Sony, if we apply this lens, would feel it's a waste to chase old and outdated hardware for fringe profits when they can push the newest hardware, Microsoft sees the potential advantages from having all that software available like software is available on Windows and especially the ability to sell it again for fringe profits.

As for exclusives, Microsoft has always gone through droughts where it loses the first-party push before going on a binge, buying up a bunch of developers, and "committing" to a round of releases just to let the developers "slack off" on Microsoft's dime. I'm not talking about just their Xbox stuff, look at Microsoft in the PC gaming sphere too, before Xbox even, they had this cycle ever since Ed Fries left. Hell, they had it with Ed Fries on PC. I think it's a factor of that "slacking off" which doesn't actually happen but because these developers no longer have the outside pressures, the standard time tables of getting releases out every two to three years slips and slips. And then when Microsoft has a corporate directive like "cancel everything on PC we're starting Xbox" or "cancel everything we're doing sports" or "cancel sports we're doing the 360" it creates another void and pushes things out further. I'd like to think that Xbox Games Studio is simply too large for this now, especially with Bethesda added, so we can have the best of both worlds in terms of Microsoft funding and quality releases at a good time table for PC/Xbox.
lol GAMEPASS go brrrrrr

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #228 on: April 14, 2021, 09:40:06 AM »
It's a trite statement to call Microsoft a software company and Sony a hardware company, but there is something to viewing this discussion through that kind of ideological lens. BC is where Microsoft's advantages as one of the world's most powerful software companies allows them to outperform Sony in a battlefield that Sony doesn't want to expend the cost to fight on. If we use this lens we can see where Microsoft might inherently view software as hardware independent because that's their ultimate model for Windows and everything else. Sony sees it all tied to the hardware because that's what they can control most easily. It's a fun ideological gambit by Microsoft that they can ultimately make Xbox into something that you just get a new revision of every so often and still can play all the stuff on. Not dumping the old hardware install base and offering GamePass services gives the impression that they're pumping value into their hardware for down the road when that won't actually be the case, it's a win-win for those of us who do want to always play that old stuff and Microsoft even if most people will just upgrade anyway.

The original Xbox One pitch was almost 180 degrees opposite from this, Microsoft wanted the Xbox One to be the center of everything, now they want the Xbox to just be another addition to your TV setup almost on the sly. Where you're like "okay, I've got Netflix setup and Disney+ setup, now I need to setup Xbox (Live) for games" and then you get the hardware for that rather than buying the hardware and then hopping into the ecosystems down the road. Microsoft is arguably faster to realize the software possibilities even when and where they fail and discard them.

Sony, by contrast, still seems to view the PlayStation venture as ultimately something that will sit at the center of your entertainment. It makes plenty of sense because the PS2 got there as a DVD player and a games player. But they still see the hardware as the key thing and they're less willing than Microsoft to simply eat the costs on the hardware to push the software. (Ironic considering this is what Sony famously did to both Nintendo and Sega!) This factors into the BC discussion because Sony sees each generation as separate because I assume they ideologically look at the specific hardware first and Microsoft much more easily sees the "software" sitting on top of all that hardware. Sony, if we apply this lens, would feel it's a waste to chase old and outdated hardware for fringe profits when they can push the newest hardware, Microsoft sees the potential advantages from having all that software available like software is available on Windows and especially the ability to sell it again for fringe profits.

As for exclusives, Microsoft has always gone through droughts where it loses the first-party push before going on a binge, buying up a bunch of developers, and "committing" to a round of releases just to let the developers "slack off" on Microsoft's dime. I'm not talking about just their Xbox stuff, look at Microsoft in the PC gaming sphere too, before Xbox even, they had this cycle ever since Ed Fries left. Hell, they had it with Ed Fries on PC. I think it's a factor of that "slacking off" which doesn't actually happen but because these developers no longer have the outside pressures, the standard time tables of getting releases out every two to three years slips and slips. And then when Microsoft has a corporate directive like "cancel everything on PC we're starting Xbox" or "cancel everything we're doing sports" or "cancel sports we're doing the 360" it creates another void and pushes things out further. I'd like to think that Xbox Games Studio is simply too large for this now, especially with Bethesda added, so we can have the best of both worlds in terms of Microsoft funding and quality releases at a good time table for PC/Xbox.
lol GAMEPASS go brrrrrr







Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #229 on: April 14, 2021, 05:07:04 PM »
Sony is stupid. MS isn’t working on BC because they care about their legacy or whatever shit. They are doing it because it helps them. Gamepass wouldn’t have shit if it was just current MS first party which is laughable. Having BC boosts the library of what’s possible on Gamepass. It allows them to have a digital copy of something whenever a dude watches a YouTuber talk about some hidden gem.

On the whole I doubt many people use BC. I think this whole outrage over BC is a enthusiasts concern and honestly kind of a fake one. The people that really care have the old hardware, already have the game, and or also know how to emulate it. It’s a shame maybe new fans won’t be able to play Lunar for cheap, though they will because PC emulation can come through. But what Sony should realize is having BC means you can have your sub and that dude is going to subscribe to it because he can play Lunar and Digital Devil Saga, Dark Cloud, and God of War. Unlike MS, Sony has the games and the relationships to get them.

Follow the Marvel Unlimited idea. New first party games debut 3 months later. Yeah it won’t be as good as Gamepass in that regards, but people will be fine because your first party is stronger and the possible legacy of games is greater.

Speaking as someone who plays retro games more than most on this forum...

I have PS1 and 2 (of course), but only have my PS3 hooked up and play PS1/2 BC on the PS3, just because the space under my TV is already a mess of wires and consoles.... and in fact I think PS3's upscaling makes PS1/2 look better than even the original hardware with RGB and an OSSC.

Of course, due to my genre tastes I have way more games for PS consoles than Xbox, but it's super appealing that I can run the og Xbox copy of Burnout 3 (which I recently purchased thanks to watching an interesting youtube on Criterion and Burnout) on a Series X... and I won't need to have my Scorpio and og Xbox up (still need the 360 hooked up since I don't think a lot of the Cave shmups are BC compatible yet). A PS5 that allows you to play everything from PS1 onwards, disk based, would be an absolute dream for me.

And Rahx, the physical retro market has been hot for a while, though post pandemic it exploded even more, although Xbox games are still overall pretty cheap. Even the ones you think would be more sought-after like Panzer Dragoon Orta.  Ironically enough I was looking through my FB memories and one of them was me complaining in 2013 about how overpriced retro games were getting... if only I knew  :P Even the fucking Pokemon games, which sold gazillions of copies, are soaring. Even DS is going crazy now (I saw a DQ5 DS recently go for $200!)

I'm acquaintances or friends with a lot of local retro store owners and resellers, the most popular/fastest-value-accumulating retro games tend to be:
-shmups
-survival horror
-Japanese RPGs
-first party platformers (especially anything Nintendo)

So I think that's why people don't care about Xbox/360/One retro as much since MS consoles aren't known for aforementioned genres. Which is ironic, since right now MS has the best BC.

I checked some games and holy fucking shit, prices have skyrockted in just the past few months. This is insane. Some games that have been on the bucket list and used to be cheap are expensive af now.
IYKYK

naff

  • someday you feed on a tree frog
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #230 on: April 14, 2021, 05:34:50 PM »
It's still amazing to me Sony have not only survived this long but are actively competing against m$

Microsoft paid more than Sonys market cap for that company Dragon that makes speech to text software recently.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 06:44:02 AM by naff »
◕‿◕

naff

  • someday you feed on a tree frog
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #231 on: April 14, 2021, 05:38:35 PM »
they've had a big hand in gaming even before Sony entered the market too. for as good as xbox is, it's baffling how the platform is still so bland
◕‿◕

tiesto

  • ルカルカ★ナイトフィーバー
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #232 on: April 14, 2021, 08:44:08 PM »
they've had a big hand in gaming even before Sony entered the market too. for as good as xbox is, it's baffling how the platform is still so bland

Sony and MS, together at last (at first):



^_^

who is ted danson?

  • ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀✋💎✋🤬
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #233 on: April 16, 2021, 05:07:01 AM »
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Pissy F Benny

  • Is down with the sickness
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #234 on: April 16, 2021, 05:17:02 AM »
epic pls :phil
(ice)

MMaRsu

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #235 on: April 16, 2021, 05:55:12 AM »
SE already denied it
What

Pissy F Benny

  • Is down with the sickness
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #236 on: April 16, 2021, 07:02:30 AM »
i wouldn't be overly shocked if they sold off their western trash division (eidos) tbh :win
(ice)

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #237 on: April 16, 2021, 10:46:35 AM »
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.
IYKYK

Don Rumata

  • Hard To Be A John
  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #238 on: April 16, 2021, 10:57:56 AM »
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.
That can still be patched out, as far as i understand.
In that case, you'd just need to swap the dead battery for a new one.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: The coming console war
« Reply #239 on: April 16, 2021, 12:27:55 PM »
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.
That can still be patched out, as far as i understand.
In that case, you'd just need to swap the dead battery for a new one.

This assumes Sony will patch it out. I doubt they will.
IYKYK