Other Forums Containment Thread

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Also I guarantee you some of the loudest voices complaining about this, don't see a single thing wrong with the Wu Tang Clan

[marrec]

. Everything that's come out about the game in regards to cultural representation has me feeling like the game just won't be for me, which sucks because I really dig the premise...

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thegamer-written-by-khee-hoon-chan-sifus-brawler-is-a-soulless-caricature.549553/

The same guy that said this:

. loved Ghost of Tsushima but it being well received in Japan doesn't make it free of criticism regarding orientalism and romanticizing Japanese history...

https://www.resetera.com/threads/sifus-lets-say-problematic-creator-kit.548534/page-2

What gives?

They need offense to feed the blood machine. They appropriate imagined offense so that they can pretend to be offended on behalf of people who don't exist.

Y'all remember when Guacamelee originally came out in 2013 and we got articles like this:

https://kotaku.com/im-mexican-am-i-supposed-to-be-offended-by-guacamelee-476018607

When the game's concept and core story beats/design was created by this guy:

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/i-made-guacamelee-to-create-a-mexican-hero/

But for the longest time nobody cared because the studio was Canadian? Nobody (except me) wrote about the appropriation of offense at that time, and it's since been accepted that Guacamelee is a loving tribute to the creators childhood home, but it still makes me upset that people TRIED to be offended by what was clearly a cultural love letter made by someone who wanted to share a part of his culture with the world.

[Boredfrom]

Man, I really love Guacamelee.

And talking about this kind of stuff, most people here love Pixar’s Coco.

[marrec]

Meanwhile Lana Wachowski is walking around with an appropriated hair style, a style that almost got my wife fired from her job and is still seen more as an "unclean" style rather than the protective styling it is.

[Uncle]

I don't understand why this group of people chose to tell this story. I also wouldn't understand if these people chose to tell a different story that didn't feature non-white characters. I also wouldn't understand if they made a game that did feature non-white characters.

Can white people please stop making things?! That's all I'm asking for in 2022. God. Ugh.

https://criticalmediaproject.org/louis-ck-on-being-white-explicit/

[Transhuman]

Dreads are pretty gross but they're gross in a cleanliness sense, not a moral sense.

[HardcoreRetro]

I remember someone here falling for that Guacamelee trap.

[marrec]

Dreads are pretty gross but they're gross in a cleanliness sense, not a moral sense.

On white people who don't have the right kind of hair, yes.

[tiesto]

Complain about an indie studio actually providing game diversity as 'inauthentic' and 'appropriation' because wypipo, then go right back to complaining how there aren't enough 'diverse' characters in videogames neoxon, you fucking plank

Exactly, I mean... more diversity in game characters and settings is something most definitely needed... but people will find a way to bitch all the same. These people just love to wallow in misery and there's no making them happy.

[HaughtyFrank]

Meanwhile China does something which could legit be called cultural appropriation during the opening ceremony...

A leading South Korean presidential candidate has accused China of "cultural appropriation" after a performer wearing a traditional Korean dress appeared at the opening ceremony of Beijing Olympics.

Friday's grand opening of the Games featured a young woman carrying a Chinese flag in a pink and white Korean traditional dress -- known as hanbok -- as part of a group of other performers representing the country's ethnic groups.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/sports/china-accused-of-appropriation-over-korean-dress-in-olympic-opening-ceremony/articleshow/89363314.cms


...and Era sleeps

[Taco Bell Tower]

So this is a thing

My review.

I couldn't ignore the cultural conversation surrounding the game, but I fell in love with Sifu as a game. I've never been one to enjoy difficult games, I've never understood Souls games but uh... I think I do now. And I have quite the library to work through.

I can't get over the rush I felt after beating some of these bosses, especially after genuinely thinking I wouldn't be able to pull it off. Sloclap have found something special here, but that doesn't erase all the issues we had surrounding cultural authenticity.

https://twitter.com/SophNar0747/status/1490572441399308291

(Image removed from quote.)

The funny part is that no one seems to point to the parts that are actually wrong or insensitive. The whole argument is just "They're white"

Sounds like the game is difficult. It's a pass for me then. Glad to see the good reviews though!

This is the same psychopath who went apeshit on an old couple for asking about light up dog collars. ResetEra is seriously the only site with majority manchildren who can't even play video games, huh?

[HaughtyFrank]

Those Sifu devs even tried to be slick and consulted people in China!

The Verge article that was just posted has this bit in it:

"Our intention is to make something that is as authentic and respectful of Chinese kung fu culture as possible," Tarno said. "Although we've got one concept artist on the team who's of Chinese culture and descent, [who] was that first layer of how to get certain texts and details of the environment, right. But that was not enough for us. We wanted to go deeper."

To do that, Sloclap engaged others of Asian descent, including Anlu Liu of Kowloon Nights, a video game investment fund, and Richie Zhu of Kepler Interactive, Sloclap's publishing partner. "Throughout the entire development of Sifu, we have constantly played builds and provided feedback," Liu told The Verge.

Both consulted on a number of issues related to gameplay and cultural elements, like correcting the order of characters on the coin talisman that holds your resurrection power. For the game's pending Chinese localization, they helped select the Chinese voice actors and sat in on recording sessions to ensure the dialogue was representative of how Chinese people speak to each other. Liu and Zhu were also responsible for connecting Sloclap with consultants in China who provided feedback on everything down to the smallest detail. There's an anecdote both Tarno and Liu shared about washing machines in the background of the game's first level being swapped from front loading to top loading since the latter is the kind most Chinese would be familiar with.

Based off that, it looks like there were at least two people of Asian descent that were consulted. And I guess these two people also reached out to consultants in China "who provided feedback on everything down to the smallest detail." But if this was the case, then why are there still issues concerning the language still in the game? Did the dev team just choose to ignore the feedback that was solicited? It kinda seems like it.

Or what if... the complaints brought up in the article are quite minor and actually don't hold up to scrutiny? No that you could actually put any argument under scrutiny on RE as you'd just get banned for "downplaying racism"

[porkbun]

Sounds like the game is difficult. It's a pass for me then. Glad to see the good reviews though!

This is the same psychopath who went apeshit on an old couple for asking about light up dog collars. ResetEra is seriously the only site with majority manchildren who can't even play video games, huh?

They don't but claim "accessibility" issues.  A game being hard isn't a point of accessibility.  Something like games not offering the option for subtitles so hard of hearing people can play them is, or having the onscreen text being adjustable.  Even something more minor like being able to adjust colors in shooters and sports games so color blind people can tell the difference in team indicators is.  You being shit at a game but still wanting to see the story isn't.

[Pissy F Benny]

death stranding and metal gear are racist cuz they're games about America developed by mostly Japanese men

[Straight Edge]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thegamer-written-by-khee-hoon-chan-sifus-brawler-is-a-soulless-caricature.549553/

Not a problem, I'm always important to highlight these kinds of issues.

quite the Freudian slip

[Transhuman]

Dreads are pretty gross but they're gross in a cleanliness sense, not a moral sense.

On white people who don't have the right kind of hair, yes.

I was excluding Zoe Kravitz obvs

[Joe Molotov]

death stranding and metal gear are racist cuz they're games about America developed by mostly Japanese men

Now that Kojima has disparaged noted capeshit director Christopher Nolan, it's okay to cancel him.

[Rahxephon91]

death stranding and metal gear are racist cuz they're games about America developed by mostly Japanese men

I know you’re joking but we’ve all played plenty of Japanese games that just take from tons of cultures to apply them to their setting or whatnot and no one complains.

Hell I just played FFXIV Endwalker which has a country that is basically India. Stereotypically so. Where are the cultural appropriation articles for that?

At the end of the day these people just want to pat themselves on the back and the easiest way to do that now is finding a problematic element of a current thing. There’s no money or points in making fun of an old thing that may have aged, tearing down our current stuff is the key to twitter success.

[Uncle]

shin megami tensei / persona uses mythological and religious figures from everywhere on the globe, making it the most problematic series in history

[joeboy101]

I wish Kane and Lynch 2 was re-examined from this cultural critique. Does that exist already?

 

[porkbun]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thegamer-written-by-khee-hoon-chan-sifus-brawler-is-a-soulless-caricature.549553/

Not a problem, I'm always important to highlight these kinds of issues.

quite the Freudian slip

LOL he has 56K tweets and any of his non-retweets have maybe 1 or 2 likes.  Yeah, bro, you're definitely an influencer.

 

[BisMarckie]

The most egregious thing is that all these vidya journalists looked at the course description of critical theory 101 and think their reviews are some groundbreaking stuff

[CHOW CHOW]

My Top 5 Other Forums Thread posters:

1. Benji
2. SmokyDave
3. Marrec
4. Unc
5. The Ghost of Filler

[Joe Molotov]

My Top 5 Other Forums posters:

1. Morrigan
2. Slayern
3. Cerium
4. KSweeney
5. The guy that hates his mom (not Amir0x)

[Uncle]

My Top 5 Joe Molotovs:

1. Joe Molotov
2. Jo Molotov
3. Joseph Molotov
4. Joey Molotov
5. Jimmy "the Greek" Molotov

[HardcoreRetro]

[HaughtyFrank]

Suggesting that white folks don't put any non-white cultures or representation to avoid criticism is a bit of taking your ball and going home. Instead, what's more useful is having diverse teams from the jump. Hiring the representative folks on the team for the project that will be relevant, even. Especially if the studio will be inspired from cultures not their own. Guerilla Games with Horizon and non-white tribal cultures, Sloclap with martial arts, and many more.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thegamer-written-by-chan-khee-hoon-sifus-brawler-is-a-soulless-caricature.549553/post-81669511

"I'm not saying white people should avoid non-white cultures, what I'm saying is you should fire those white people and hire people who are non-white to work on the game" 


And oh no, someone discovered how paperthin the article is

I have to admit, I don't think the article in OP does a good job of providing examples as to why the game is soulless.

I understand the occasional off translation sucks, but, the examples of "no money, no goods" or use of the word "Sifu" aren't enough to convince me of any malice. It then, by design or not, leads many to believe the all-white studio had zero Chinese consultants on the issue. But, the Verge article details that they did, and those consultants also worked on the localization, cultural elements, and, to top it off, it's been well-received in China.

Genuinely willing to be further educated here, but, I feel like I'm reading two pretty different stories about the development of the game, and only one of them is based on conjecture, with no good examples other than it's made by a white team.

Poor soul doesn't know that asking questions is not allowed

[clothedmacuser]

15 Stories From Formerly "Creepy" Men That Are Actually Really, Really Important
"I realized: They aren't laughing because I'm funny — they're laughing because they're scared."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/shelbyheinrich/men-creepy-women-stories

Excel RN

[Jansen]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/village-roadshow-sues-warnermedia-over-matrix-day-1-streaming.549631/

The ree's are not taking criticism of the matrix 4 well and are a few posts away from just straight-up calling anybody who didn't like it a transphob

[Rahxephon91]

I’ll happily be a transphobe if I can say M4 was bad.

[HaughtyFrank]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/village-roadshow-sues-warnermedia-over-matrix-day-1-streaming.549631/

The ree's are not taking criticism of the matrix 4 well and are a few posts away from just straight-up calling anybody who didn't like it a transphob

After the thread where people said every cis-male director under the sun(almost all white) should take over the franchise, it really doesn't baffle me at all.

When someone forgets that the Wachowskis are also white

[Drainage]

Can we ban stop with all the criticism of this trans-led AAA movie franchise? The gravedancing feels super sus and folks are already feeling unsafe here as is...

[Maiden Voyage]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/people-joke-on-the-insane-clown-posse-but-they-actually-get-it.549757/

[Boredfrom]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/village-roadshow-sues-warnermedia-over-matrix-day-1-streaming.549631/

The ree's are not taking criticism of the matrix 4 well and are a few posts away from just straight-up calling anybody who didn't like it a transphob

I liked the movie (but it was a bad film) but it is funny that the people defending it are the same guys that make every single blockbuster a social issue (Ghostbusters and Last Jedi).

Feels like a pattern. 

[Lonewulfeus]

My Top 5 Other Forums Thread posters:

1. Benji
2. SmokyDave
3. Marrec
4. Unc
5. The Ghost of Filler

Can you do a top 10 so we can all be included? 

[Jansen]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/village-roadshow-sues-warnermedia-over-matrix-day-1-streaming.549631/

The ree's are not taking criticism of the matrix 4 well and are a few posts away from just straight-up calling anybody who didn't like it a transphob

After the thread where people said every cis-male director under the sun(almost all white) should take over the franchise, it really doesn't baffle me at all.

When someone forgets that the Wachowskis are also white

ITT people show their ass because Matrix 4 turned out to be a personal story Lana Wachowski decided to tell with characters who represent large portions of her psyche and life experience rather than...whatever they wanted, I don't know what anyone expected from a fourth Matrix movie. I liked it a lot more than I would have liked some rehashed action romp, which was really the only other option.

The OT was wild in that respect. People talking about being heartbroken over it and coming weeks later to shit on it in random single line posts. Seemed to get under the skin of a fair few peeps.

It was disheartening TBH, and then weeks following it with various amounts of threads have been very sobering.



Like it wasn't the match to light the fire of that particular thought, but it definitely rekindled it.

Maybe there was no ulterior motive and people just didn't like it

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/steam-deck-valve-handheld-gaming-pc-revealed.457465/page-234#post-81547301

User Banned (3 Days): Sexist Generalziation

Awwww that’s really cute.
If I was a girl and pink was my favorite color I’d buy that as quick as possible.

[D3RANG3D]

[Potato]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/village-roadshow-sues-warnermedia-over-matrix-day-1-streaming.549631/

The ree's are not taking criticism of the matrix 4 well and are a few posts away from just straight-up calling anybody who didn't like it a transphob

After the thread where people said every cis-male director under the sun(almost all white) should take over the franchise, it really doesn't baffle me at all.

When someone forgets that the Wachowskis are also white

...and that the first three Matrix movies were made by two white guys

[Straight Edge]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/what-made-you-lose-complete-sympathy-respect-for-a-friend.1629838/

https://www.resetera.com/threads/what-made-you-lose-complete-sympathy-respect-for-a-friend.549718/


 

[Boredfrom]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/village-roadshow-sues-warnermedia-over-matrix-day-1-streaming.549631/

The ree's are not taking criticism of the matrix 4 well and are a few posts away from just straight-up calling anybody who didn't like it a transphob

After the thread where people said every cis-male director under the sun(almost all white) should take over the franchise, it really doesn't baffle me at all.

When someone forgets that the Wachowskis are also white

...and that the first three Matrix movies were made by two white guys

I remember rumors that Lana was Trans since Reloaded.

[Snoopycat_]

As usual Ree continues their tradition of taking their bullshit too far -

Oh god, it’s not looking so good. I contacted the Insurance Agency. They said that my mom submitted forms for me (and used my high school ASB card for identification…. 😭). They said that they DID send out a check for me. But they’ll let me know within 24 hours if the check was cashed or not.

[FUME5]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/what-made-you-lose-complete-sympathy-respect-for-a-friend.1629838/

https://www.resetera.com/threads/what-made-you-lose-complete-sympathy-respect-for-a-friend.549718/


 

Gottem.

[clothedmacuser]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/village-roadshow-sues-warnermedia-over-matrix-day-1-streaming.549631/

The ree's are not taking criticism of the matrix 4 well and are a few posts away from just straight-up calling anybody who didn't like it a transphob

Lol, kyuuji in that thread cheering it on.  I wonder if lil' miss "OMG This show Jeopardy is so amazing!" after thier team/side did it, even liked/watched The Matrix.series

[Lonewulfeus]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/what-made-you-lose-complete-sympathy-respect-for-a-friend.1629838/

https://www.resetera.com/threads/what-made-you-lose-complete-sympathy-respect-for-a-friend.549718/


 

One of my younger lady friends made a Facebook post back in like 2018 with a bunch of "All lives matter" BS and I called her out on that in the comments. She later PM'd me saying I don't know her life and she has plenty of black friends. I could t respect her after she doubled down on it, not being able to see what "all lives matter" rhetoric really means.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/DanODonnellShow/status/1488508181605228546

Poor whoopi is now suspended, #freewhoopi

[tiesto]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/what-made-you-lose-complete-sympathy-respect-for-a-friend.1629838/

https://www.resetera.com/threads/what-made-you-lose-complete-sympathy-respect-for-a-friend.549718/


 

When I found out one of my friends jumped into the shower with a drunk girl to try and console her.

When I found out another one of my friends just made millions of dollars by selling his business, which I helped do a bit of unpaid maintenance work for a time out of the goodness of my heart, and then disappeared, not compensating me even a dime for my earlier work.

[BIONIC]

You’re friends with  ?

 

[tiesto]

You’re friends with  ?

 

Naah, just making a dumb joke

[Cauliflower Of Love]

You’re friends with  ?

 

Naah, just making a dumb joke

sure jan

[Superstar]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/people-joke-on-the-insane-clown-posse-but-they-actually-get-it.549757/

Whatever happened to those threads where everyone would dunk on the gathering of the juggles? They were some of the best gaf threads. Guessing they got No Fun Allowed.

[OnlyRegret]

Dreads are pretty gross but they're gross in a cleanliness sense, not a moral sense.

Think that has to do with them being somehow part of the smelly hippy character

[SmokyDave]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thegamer-written-by-chan-khee-hoon-sifus-brawler-is-a-soulless-caricature.549553/page-4#post-81695497

On the original article, calling drug users "junkies" in 2022 is pretty poor taste

This cat is correct, and is managing to outwake the other resetters at the same time. I like this poster.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thegamer-written-by-chan-khee-hoon-sifus-brawler-is-a-soulless-caricature.549553/page-4#post-81696055

Ban me for it, but I think being offended by cultural homages is a uniquely American take.

Oh they're gonna ban you for that, have no fear.

[HardcoreRetro]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thegamer-written-by-chan-khee-hoon-sifus-brawler-is-a-soulless-caricature.549553/page-4#post-81695497

On the original article, calling drug users "junkies" in 2022 is pretty poor taste

This cat is correct, and is managing to outwake the other resetters at the same time. I like this poster.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thegamer-written-by-chan-khee-hoon-sifus-brawler-is-a-soulless-caricature.549553/page-4#post-81696055

Ban me for it, but I think being offended by cultural homages is a uniquely American take.

Oh they're gonna ban you for that, have no fear.

You'll love the post that followed up that one.

[headwalk]

So this is a thing

My review.

I couldn't ignore the cultural conversation surrounding the game, but I fell in love with Sifu as a game. I've never been one to enjoy difficult games, I've never understood Souls games but uh... I think I do now. And I have quite the library to work through.

I can't get over the rush I felt after beating some of these bosses, especially after genuinely thinking I wouldn't be able to pull it off. Sloclap have found something special here, but that doesn't erase all the issues we had surrounding cultural authenticity.

https://twitter.com/SophNar0747/status/1490572441399308291

(Image removed from quote.)

The funny part is that no one seems to point to the parts that are actually wrong or insensitive. The whole argument is just "They're white"

i fully agree that game developers should limit themselves to writing "what they know". just think of the possibilities.

[Kurt Russell]

i fully agree that game developers should limit themselves to writing "what they know". just think of the possibilities.

Cannot wait for Virginity Simulator 2022: GOTY Edition.

[headwalk]

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

15 Stories From Formerly "Creepy" Men That Are Actually Really, Really Important
"I realized: They aren't laughing because I'm funny — they're laughing because they're scared."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/shelbyheinrich/men-creepy-women-stories

Excel RN

(Image removed from quote.)

>implying incelchief isn't a formerly creepy man

[marrec]

-> "Stop writing bland white bread male protagonists"

--> Devs start implementing diverse casts and settings

---> "White people shouldn't write and appropriate other cultures"

----> There isn't enough diversity currently in game development to continue to create games

-----> The games industry crashes and cannot recover

Jack Thompson: just according to keikaku

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I think you're giving old JT a lil too much credit there, given he's one of the few lawyers who has a certificate proving that he's legally sane, because a judge made him go and get one.