The Culture War Thread

[HaughtyFrank]

https://twitter.com/gabehudson/status/1561979209664368646

https://twitter.com/Misery_Addition/status/1562856661609779205

[Phoenix Dark]

The funny thing is that some of the HOTD creators went on a press tour a few months ago and basically shat on Game Of Thrones while stating the new show would be less misogynistic. I've read the book(s) so the minute that labor scene I immediately thought well there goes all that good will.

Art does not exist to reinforce our personal views or agree with our political principles. HOTD in of itself is largely going to be about a woman attempting to destroy the very system/order that led to her mother dying during childbirth.

[HaughtyFrank]

The funny thing is that some of the HOTD creators went on a press tour a few months ago and basically shat on Game Of Thrones while stating the new show would be less misogynistic. I've read the book(s) so the minute that labor scene I immediately thought well there goes all that good will.

Art does not exist to reinforce our personal views or agree with our political principles. HOTD in of itself is largely going to be about a woman attempting to destroy the very system/order that led to her mother dying during childbirth.

It's funny to me how this sort of almost revisionist history has become part of marketing (like how Disney announces their first gay character for the tenth time). Like there were several articles about how House of the Dragon finally "fixes what Game of Thrones did wrong" and will have strong female characters and address the sexism in that world, just completely ignoring the strong women that already were in Game of Thrones and that the show also had commentary on the worlds sexism.

All the funnier (but also for the better) that the show kept things exactly as they were.

[Potato]

Imagine thinking that "fixing" Game of Thrones meant putting more "strong female characters®©™" rather than not shitting the bed with the storytelling...

[Phoenix Dark]

GoT might have the strongest, most diverse female characters of just about any show over the last 20 years. Just a wild accusation. I get not following in the footsteps of the overly sexual shit in earlier seasons but still. The response to overly sexual content shouldn't be little to no sexual content. Certainly not in an era where multiple shows have sex scenes catered to what women like (see: Industry).

[Polident Hive]

Flummoxed at gen x and late millennials who grew up around potential advisory labels on rap CDs and Jack Thompson’s shit warped into compliance.

[benjipwns]

Flummoxed at gen x and late millennials who grew up around potential advisory labels on rap CDs and Jack Thompson’s shit warped into compliance.

K-Mart was right to not stock, er, I mean deplatform offensive records! Corporations should spend all their time trying to protect consumers from morally harmful things they want! What if some kid buys a Nirvana record and then kills himself because Kurt Cobain did?!? That's literally blood on their hands! DAVE GROHL SHOULD BE IN PRISON! (Not for that, just in general I mean.)

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1565345010035605505

https://twitter.com/MsPackyetti/status/1565357582142799873

 

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/OkButStill/status/1564818828336529413

[Pissy F Benny]

that dude is supersoy

[HaughtyFrank]

https://twitter.com/lavern_spicer/status/1565775012870725633

 

[HaughtyFrank]

https://twitter.com/tragicbirdapp/status/1566610490566000643

[Nintex]

Sorry, none of your holocaust takes can beat this one

https://twitter.com/avalaina/status/1566113680210665473

[HaughtyFrank]

CNN wrote an article explaining the stupid Lord of the Rings culture war and now they're considered Breitbart 2.0

https://twitter.com/lindyli/status/1566633150213677056

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/03/entertainment/lord-of-the-rings-amazon-controversy-blake-cec/index.html

I didn't read all of it but the article seems actually well researched. Presenting the people who say the casting is bad, presenting the ones that say the originals were too white and that the books have racist elements and then taking a look at what Tolkien himself thought about race.

Apparently that's bad journalism now though

[Boredfrom]

Is fucking weird how some assholes cast Tolkien as hyper racist like Lovecraft even if is clear he was pretty okay for his time. Is fair to criticize the racial tones of his books too an extent but why still pretend “Orcs are totally black guys”.

[benjipwns]

but why still pretend “Orcs are totally black guys”.

Because that's what they think of Black people.

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/nagy_minaj/status/1565870668855508992

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/nagy_minaj/status/1566150157980295169
https://twitter.com/nagy_minaj/status/1566152392231555074

[close]

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/michellecyca/status/1567145181329379337
https://twitter.com/michellecyca/status/1567145191043403777
https://twitter.com/michellecyca/status/1567145193476083713

[james]

This is the native girl policing other people claiming to be native?

 

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1565536131084652544

[benjipwns]

@Pissy

[benjipwns]

Maybe Nintex was right and CNN is doomed.

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1567427608945500161

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/rev_avocado/status/1563998172845932547

https://twitter.com/nikicaga/status/1566872668946702337

[Tasty]

The funny thing is that some of the HOTD creators went on a press tour a few months ago and basically shat on Game Of Thrones while stating the new show would be less misogynistic. I've read the book(s) so the minute that labor scene I immediately thought well there goes all that good will.

Art does not exist to reinforce our personal views or agree with our political principles. HOTD in of itself is largely going to be about a woman attempting to destroy the very system/order that led to her mother dying during childbirth.

I saw that scene as a hardcore indictment of Viserys and his drive for an heir. He'll push away Rhaenyra, Daemon, and even sentence his own wife to death in pursuit of male progeny. I wouldn't call it a feminist scene but considering a good chunk of dads won't even go in the delivery room, maybe a non-sugarcoated portrayal was necessary to drive the dramatic point home.

[Tasty]

“Orcs are totally black guys”.

Does that mean Hobbits are The Gays?

I mean, Mary and Pippin...

[Potato]

The funny thing is that some of the HOTD creators went on a press tour a few months ago and basically shat on Game Of Thrones while stating the new show would be less misogynistic. I've read the book(s) so the minute that labor scene I immediately thought well there goes all that good will.

Art does not exist to reinforce our personal views or agree with our political principles. HOTD in of itself is largely going to be about a woman attempting to destroy the very system/order that led to her mother dying during childbirth.

I saw that scene as a hardcore indictment of Viserys and his drive for an heir. He'll push away Rhaenyra, Daemon, and even sentence his own wife to death in pursuit of male progeny. I wouldn't call it a feminist scene but considering a good chunk of dads won't even go in the delivery room, maybe a non-sugarcoated portrayal was necessary to drive the dramatic point home.

The mother would have died either way, so to me it was trying to illustrate the love between King and consort and that in his quest/duty/need for an heir (to also stop his brother becoming King) he had to keep putting her at risk even through all the miscarriages etc. He was between a rock and a hard place so I think it was an illustration of the difficulties of being a king more than trying to paint him as a tyrant.

[Tasty]

I don't see him as a tyrant, just incompetent and blinded by a singular focus on something that kinda was already decided -- Daemon was the explicitly named heir for years.

[HaughtyFrank]

[Pissy F Benny]

I know its old as shit, but imagine being such a deluded narcissist that you write an article complaining that someone else (that you don't even know) losing weight makes you feel bad with no self reflection or awareness

That its in the Telegraph (paper for rich old conservative wankers) not the Guardian makes it funny tho.

[HardcoreRetro]

Someone tell her that it's the ammount of excess fat she's carrying around that's making her uncomfortable. Not a picture.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1567886577556197376

[Nintex]

[james]

What kind of broke-ass kid uses an analog shaver?

Electric or STFU

[Potato]

What kind of pussy can't shave with a proper razor?

[Cauliflower Of Love]

What kind of pussy can't shave with a proper razor?

lol

[HaughtyFrank]

(Image removed from quote.)

Jeremy's Razor making me think about kids shaving their balls is not good advertising.

[benjipwns]

What kind of broke-ass kid uses an analog shaver?

Electric or STFU

What kind of pussy can't shave with a proper razor?

The real culture war.

[james]

What kind of broke-ass kid uses an analog shaver?

Electric or STFU

What kind of pussy can't shave with a proper razor?

The real culture war.

This is a war the Germans won

[HaughtyFrank]

The next weird step in the whole Lotr thing

https://twitter.com/SierraWhiskey9/status/1567902277884866564

The weird part is that before House of the dragon was released there was also plenty of "Game of thrones goes woke" trash talk because they race swapped some characters but somehow it didn't get the same backlash. Maybe it's because the diverse characters aren't featured as prominently or maybe it's just a better show? Maybe it's not even worth trying to find sense in it

[Potato]

Female dwarves 

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/whstancil/status/1567906360708460544

spoiler (click to show/hide)

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/IncellularStu/status/1567910432966582273

[close]

[close]

[Cauliflower Of Love]

“What we have accomplished in such a short time has never been done before in the entire history of the Internet,” Sorrenti wrot

[Tasty]

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1567886577556197376

All holy men are potential terrorists, Q.E.D.

[Tasty]

The next weird step in the whole Lotr thing

https://twitter.com/SierraWhiskey9/status/1567902277884866564

The weird part is that before House of the dragon was released there was also plenty of "Game of thrones goes woke" trash talk because they race swapped some characters but somehow it didn't get the same backlash. Maybe it's because the diverse characters aren't featured as prominently or maybe it's just a better show? Maybe it's not even worth trying to find sense in it

The difference, honestly, is GRRM's alive to say it's ok and JRRT isn't so he can't.

Take the Dr. Seuss example: he disowned his own racist works in his lifetime, so he probably would have been for the removals last year. But that still didn't stop the thinkpieces about how censorship is destroying society.

[Uncle]

The difference, honestly, is GRRM's alive to say it's ok and JRRT isn't so he can't.

Take the Dr. Seuss example: he disowned his own racist works in his lifetime, so he probably would have been for the removals last year. But that still didn't stop the thinkpieces about how censorship is destroying society.

he also could've chosen to stop selling those books when he was alive if he thought they were racist

[Tasty]

The difference, honestly, is GRRM's alive to say it's ok and JRRT isn't so he can't.

Take the Dr. Seuss example: he disowned his own racist works in his lifetime, so he probably would have been for the removals last year. But that still didn't stop the thinkpieces about how censorship is destroying society.

he also could've chosen to stop selling those books when he was alive if he thought they were racist

That's IMO part of an unrelated aspect of the Seuss story: that he was kinda an asshole lol. No problem making the money as you said, not to mention his poor wife.

But his beliefs seemed pretty clear on the matter, to me anyways.

[HaughtyFrank]

I guess there's indeed bit more confusion when it comes to Tolkien. I've seen people defend the diverse casting by claiming that Tolkien wasn't racist and would have liked it and then I've seen people defending it by claiming that Tolkien was a racist and that's why it needed to be changed.

[Potato]

Maybe people who never met the man should stop trying to claim they know his motives.

If you want to adapt something and race/gender swap, know that some people are going to hate it because they're racists or bigots or maybe just want to see a faithful adaptation.


On the other hand, idiots who complain when even the most mundane thing like a character's skin colour is changed need to grow the fuck up.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I don't get why people don't just make their own fucking thing if they have problems with a thing they otherwise mostly like.

That Twilight woman made a fucking mint off her Buffy fanfics but getting rid of the scooby doo monster of the week stuff and focussing on the groomer stuff she was into instead.
Then the Fifty Shades woman made a fucking mint off of her Twilight fanfic, but getting rid of the supernatural shit and adding all the BDSM stuff she was more interested in.

If you wanna basically rewrite LOTR as Clintonistas, Bernie Bros and The Squaddists overcoming their internal squabbles and teaming up to take down the maga hat wearing Sauronists, go ahead and fucking do it.

But don't be surprised if you pick up a summary of Resident Evil lore and go "Wow, I really think this would be better as a comedy drama about minority high school girls" and people push back.

[Polident Hive]

Think it’s all about mitigating risks. Spending X amount on a show, it’s easier to pitch as a known name then as an original franchise. Unless you have another name to bank on, say with James Cameron and Avatar.

That’s the fun thing about franchises like Watchmen to Star Wars. Born out of a failure to secure existing franchises, in many ways, eclipsed their inspirations. Stranger Things isn’t exactly the same because I don’t think they wanted to make an It show. Whatever close enough to the point.

Resident Evil, tho. I don’t know what the appeal is to general audiences. Somehow two movies or TV shows released months apart, completely unrelated? Neither based on existing games or those odd RE superhero movies?

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/thekinocorner/status/1569151327195865089

[Skullfuckers Anonymous]

You’d enjoy the full movie Nintex.

They’ve got a scene where Gina Carano says, “by the way, epstein didn’t kill himself”.

And the ending is alt history where Rudy Giuliani gets a secret recording of Hunter Biden which leads Hunter and Joe to being arrested and Trump winning re-election.

[HaughtyFrank]

https://twitter.com/MasculineTakes/status/1569522063962165249

What, the??? (...) 

[Tasty]

Effeminate emoji are a gay man thing and I won't let the straights take that away from us too. 🤬😤🤭😊

[Phoenix Dark]

The next weird step in the whole Lotr thing

https://twitter.com/SierraWhiskey9/status/1567902277884866564

The weird part is that before House of the dragon was released there was also plenty of "Game of thrones goes woke" trash talk because they race swapped some characters but somehow it didn't get the same backlash. Maybe it's because the diverse characters aren't featured as prominently or maybe it's just a better show? Maybe it's not even worth trying to find sense in it

The difference, honestly, is GRRM's alive to say it's ok and JRRT isn't so he can't.

Take the Dr. Seuss example: he disowned his own racist works in his lifetime, so he probably would have been for the removals last year. But that still didn't stop the thinkpieces about how censorship is destroying society.

Ironically the chick who helped co-write one of the books the show is based, Linda Antonsson, is a straight up hater who has been shitting on the racial/casting choices for years. Also has been fighting back against some of the worst aspects of cultural war shit seeping into fandoms (people trying to erase HP Lovecraft for instance).

I haven't seen LOTR yet but a major complaint beyond the race stuff is people feeling like male characters were essentially emasculated in order to overly inflate Galadriel, making her stand out as more heroic. I get it, Elrond was certainly a steward/politician but he was also a badass. But...Galadriel was a badass too. Her mom literally gave her an elven name that means Man-Maiden. She was tall and literally was a better athlete than the male elves her age. She also participated in multiple battles/wars. That's all lore from shit I read as a kid, so I'm not sure why people are mad at the idea of her fighting...

[HaughtyFrank]

The next weird step in the whole Lotr thing

https://twitter.com/SierraWhiskey9/status/1567902277884866564

The weird part is that before House of the dragon was released there was also plenty of "Game of thrones goes woke" trash talk because they race swapped some characters but somehow it didn't get the same backlash. Maybe it's because the diverse characters aren't featured as prominently or maybe it's just a better show? Maybe it's not even worth trying to find sense in it

The difference, honestly, is GRRM's alive to say it's ok and JRRT isn't so he can't.

Take the Dr. Seuss example: he disowned his own racist works in his lifetime, so he probably would have been for the removals last year. But that still didn't stop the thinkpieces about how censorship is destroying society.

Ironically the chick who helped co-write one of the books the show is based, Linda Antonsson, is a straight up hater who has been shitting on the racial/casting choices for years. Also has been fighting back against some of the worst aspects of cultural war shit seeping into fandoms (people trying to erase HP Lovecraft for instance).

I haven't seen LOTR yet but a major complaint beyond the race stuff is people feeling like male characters were essentially emasculated in order to overly inflate Galadriel, making her stand out as more heroic. I get it, Elrond was certainly a steward/politician but he was also a badass. But...Galadriel was a badass too. Her mom literally gave her an elven name that means Man-Maiden. She was tall and literally was a better athlete than the male elves her age. She also participated in multiple battles/wars. That's all lore from shit I read as a kid, so I'm not sure why people are mad at the idea of her fighting...

The "Galadriel is a mary sue" complaints were very strange and felt more like people firing off a playbook instead of actually engaging the show. Yes, she upstages the whole elf squad she is with, but those are also complete no-names and considering that this is the great Galadriel it simply makes sense that she'd be more powerful than some elf soldier.

What I find more worthwhile to critique is that she's a fairly flat character who only seems to be driven by vengeance and falls into the typical "strong female character" archetype, where she's physically strong and ditches most (traditionally) feminine personality traits.
That said, her character arc is I imagine pretty obvious, and through the course of the show she'll likely grow into the kind and wise Galadriel we know from Lotr, so it's not even necessarily a bad thing, cause what would be the point if the character has nowhere to grow, I just think they might have taken it a bit too far here and there which makes her look overly cold.

[jorma]

i find rop galadriel a bit jarring compared to kate blanchetts galadriel because she seems more like a teenager in comparison, but in reality in the lore she's already ancient, older than mankind and most of her "adolescent kinks" should already be straightened out.

i guess i don't think she's as mary sue as she should be   

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/UTLAUncensored/status/1569179938334601217
https://twitter.com/UTLAUncensored/status/1569915049946525699

[Pissy F Benny]

I agree with the fatty boom battys