The Culture War Thread

[Polident Hive]

Essay: Dear White Women Cheering Iranian Women

What does brown mean anymore.

[BIONIC]

Essay: Dear White Women Cheering Iranian Women

What does brown mean anymore.

Ask Nintex 

[HaughtyFrank]

Essay: Dear White Women Cheering Iranian Women

What does brown mean anymore.

https://twitter.com/tragicbirdapp/status/1575501790703136773

 

[benjipwns]

[Potato]

(Image removed from quote.)

Did she just accuse black people of not having jobs?

[Pissy F Benny]

There's a curious trend of using wokeness to disparage unions, gee whizz I wonder who could be behind such a thing

[Propagandhim]

The caucasity of unionization has lead this country down a dark path

[benjipwns]

Splatoon is one of the queerest games on the planet. I can’t quite put my finger on why though. Perhaps it’s the liberating attitude it takes when standing against authority, or the willingness to enable modern youth and provide them with a space to express themselves without compromise, or the presence of characters who are coded in ways that can’t be taken in any other way except fruity. Pearl and Marina, here’s looking at you.

There is something LGBT afoot, and there always has been in the series, but Splatoon 3 takes it to a whole new level. A brief walk around the sprawling hub world greets us with all manner of drawings that have players declaring their love for men and women, crying out for trans rights, or just having fun with modern queer trends that are popular elsewhere. It isn’t just that these have infiltrated Splatoon, but those who feel welcomed by them have come to call this game home because it represents something special, an inclusive exuberance that nothing else in Nintendo’s library has ever come close to matching. The Squids are alright.

Our own Lex Luddy recently wrote about how Splatoon 3 has helped her embrace a sense of fashion in reality after dressing up her Inkling, and that visual identity is a big reason why this series has such staying power. I wasn’t out of the closet when the first Splatoon arrived in 2015, and found myself resorting to games to explore my own appearance and the person I hoped to see myself become after starting hormones and a social transition. Obviously I wasn’t going to transform into a weird squid creature, but the clothes and personality was a sufficient way to express myself without fear of bigoted harassment or my own anxiety.

I could don cute skirts, awesome tops, and stylish hats to my heart’s content, and always had the freedom to switch things up to take on new skills but still be assured that I’d look amazing. Everyone else does too, and this acceptance all starts with the character creator itself. While gendered hairstyles and clothing options do exist in this world, none of them are strictly labelled or describe you as a boy or a girl. You are merely a squid, and that identity takes on whatever gender you want it to. It can be changed up whenever too, giving each squid a fluid identity that is never once set in stone. The agent you play as during the campaign goes by gender-neutral pronouns too, further cementing the idea that Splatoon never intends for its player characters to be viewed from a cisgendered perspective. Like much of modern youth, we have moved beyond the need for the labels that older generations sought to burden us with. Not once are we asked to become something we aren’t, and that rules so hard.

Splatoon 3 also sees this place fall even deeper into the apocalypse. Chaos has been welcomed, and this perspective is seen in the overturned monuments and rampant decay found outside the otherwise metropolitan cityscape. These squids exist and operate within the confines of a culture all of their own, a youthful combination of music, fashion, and excess that we’ve seen evolve alongside them over the past three games. They abide by no sense of authority, only existing to hang out with friends and party whenever a Splatfest comes around. It’s liberating, and the appeal this has for queer audiences is clear to see.

The series’ wider lore might point towards where these creatures came from and whether they abide by an actual system of government, but to us they are little more than cool dudes having a good time without any of the societal baggage found in the real world. Squid Kids have grown since the first game too, more resembling Squid Teenagers ready and willing to find themselves. That evolution only better serves the queer theming, and it makes perfect sense for more ambitious styles and divergent identities to emerge as we move forward. What form that takes is up to us, and I choose to view it as a foundation to experiment however I like. I’m only Level 10, but already I feel like my own distinct Squid ready to take on the world.

Current affairs, whether it be the finale of Better Call Saul or the death of Queen Elizabeth, are referenced through in-game drawings that make up much of the game’s personality. All of these are peppered in alongside admissions of queer attraction and fruity displays of affection that players and their fellow squids are never afraid of making clear. This will only continue to grow as the online shooter evolves with future updates, whether it be through providing us with additional nuggets of lore or new clothes that emphasise self-expression. But, even without referencing the real world with memes, Splatoon 3 still shines.

Splatoon 3 feels built for the modern zeitgeist, and those who grew up with the internet and understand how to best engage with it. Turns out that a lot of those people are also queer, and are always looking for places to further representation and unearth subtext, even more so when the base game itself is so fruity already. It’s a place of comfort and discovery, and a breeding ground for youthful rebellion that constantly goes against the grain in spite of its family friendly image. Splatoon is for everyone, and that definition covers all the bases.

[BIONIC]

A website called the capital-G Gamer talking about queerness? 

Slickness levels critical 

[Polident Hive]

https://twitter.com/JuliusIrvington/status/1575894351900811269

[HaughtyFrank]

https://twitter.com/PopCrave/status/1575855981027655683

[Potato]

Did she twerk while playing it? Seems pretty talented to me...

[D3RANG3D]

[HaughtyFrank]

https://twitter.com/jameelajamil/status/1576734041985777664

It's for the people this genre forgot all these years

 

[BIONIC]

Are you denying the lived experience of green CG monster lawyers? 

[Phoenix Dark]

https://twitter.com/jameelajamil/status/1576734041985777664

It's for the people this genre forgot all these years

 

I thought the show was underperforming? If that's true and its doing well...grats I guess. Maybe the algorithm bubble I'm in doesn't show me jack shit from the show (besides the twerking...).

It's funny, I see more content from angry nerds claiming Disney is on the brink of economic collapse and all these shows are flopping et cetc...but I haven't really seen proof of that either. They say the same about LOTR yet we just got new numbers recently that further prove the show is super popular. There's this weird thing where these losers will review bomb RT and similar sites, then claim "the fans" hate the show while working overtime to prove that no one is watching. But if the show was as bad as the ratings...why are people watching at such a high rate.

[HaughtyFrank]

https://twitter.com/jameelajamil/status/1576734041985777664

It's for the people this genre forgot all these years

 

I thought the show was underperforming? If that's true and its doing well...grats I guess. Maybe the algorithm bubble I'm in doesn't show me jack shit from the show (besides the twerking...).

It's funny, I see more content from angry nerds claiming Disney is on the brink of economic collapse and all these shows are flopping et cetc...but I haven't really seen proof of that either. They say the same about LOTR yet we just got new numbers recently that further prove the show is super popular. There's this weird thing where these losers will review bomb RT and similar sites, then claim "the fans" hate the show while working overtime to prove that no one is watching. But if the show was as bad as the ratings...why are people watching at such a high rate.

Those Nerd channels always try to be the first to scream "Go woke, go broke" so they can validate themselves, ignoring that it often is not the case. Personally I assume that most people don't really care about "woke" content either way, if the movie/show is good enough they'll just watch it.

[Pissy F Benny]

Jameela Jamil is top 10 worst people drawing breath on the planet, no debating

[Uncle]

It's funny, I see more content from angry nerds claiming Disney is on the brink of economic collapse and all these shows are flopping et cetc...but I haven't really seen proof of that either. They say the same about LOTR yet we just got new numbers recently that further prove the show is super popular. There's this weird thing where these losers will review bomb RT and similar sites, then claim "the fans" hate the show while working overtime to prove that no one is watching. But if the show was as bad as the ratings...why are people watching at such a high rate.

rise of skywalker such a beloved film that the review bombing couldn't drown out all the positivity 

[Nintex]

Most normies watch any shit that Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc. have banners for on their home screens.
The fans and critics may think that those shows are bad but even they have to admit that most of the streaming services have better shows than what people watch(ed) on cable.

She-Hulk and Rings of Power aren't going up against Top Gun: Maverick, a 4K Remaster of Lawrence of Arabia or Better Call Saul.
They're going up against NCIS, season 30 of the Voice, a funny YouTube cat video compilation with added commentary or the Pawnstars highlights. 

So yeah I'm not surprised that people who watch The View at home or watch a show during their lunch break would give a thumbs up to She-Hulk.

[HaughtyFrank]

https://twitter.com/Kurrco/status/1577004459154354177

 

[Potato]

She-Hulk is fun, Rings of Power is good and getting better every episode. Man-children threatened by a few women in their superhero/fantasy shows are stupid.

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/Kurrco/status/1577004459154354177

 

wait until you see what's on the front of those shirts
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1577006587939786755

[Tuckers Law]

She-Hulk is fun, Rings of Power is good and getting better every episode. Man-children threatened by a few women in their superhero/fantasy shows are stupid.

You seriously buy into that?

[Phoenix Dark]

She-Hulk is fun, Rings of Power is good and getting better every episode. Man-children threatened by a few women in their superhero/fantasy shows are stupid.

You seriously buy into that?

I do to an extent. Nobody cares about who taught dudes how to do amazing things when they're on the hero's journey. I don't remember anyone caring how Luke was capable of accurately shooting Storm Troopers in a military raid situation, how he knew how to use a grapple, etc. It wouldn't cross our minds to even question it because it's a fantasy story so who cares...and also because we assume a certain level of competency whether earned or not. Seems hard to deny that many of these same dudes cannot accept that for female characters.

If you want to complain about the woman warrior becoming a boring, predictable trope that's one thing. But a lot of this stuff goes way beyond that. I haven't watched the new LOTR but Galadriel literally participates in a battle in the books. She grew up an athlete, was better than the male elves, and her mother called her "Man-Maiden" due to how athletic she was. So why is a thousand year old elven figure of incredible power and intelligence being called a Mary Sue? Why is her military prowess being questioned? Beyond "woman bad, woman woke" arguments.

[Tuckers Law]

The actual amount of “man-children threatened by Strong Woman” is pretty small I bet you, but because that narrative was one that was pushed before anything of either show came out, all criticism (and there’s been a shitload) of both Rings of Power and She-Hulk is now constantly lumped in as the whines of misogynists and “alt-right chuds”/racists.

But if we discount any of that and just assume any men complaining about either are doing so disingenuously, that still leaves criticism from women who are fans.  For Galadriel: that she’s not being allowed to retain any feminine strength, and is not being allowed to be a strong character without being written like a gender-swapped man.  For She-Hulk: that she’s a man-hating cunt and written completely counter to how she’s portrayed in the comics (I can’t attest to this myself knowing nothing of she-hulk, it’s just what I’ve heard).  For both: that the writing is so fucking dire the fear is that it’s poisoning the well for gaining new fans of beloved literary characters.

So yeah, there’s haters online I’m sure. It’s the internet, that’s expected.  Seeing people eat into these PR and marketing campaigns that preemptively weaponize hateful dipshits into a defense against potential criticism is a bummer though.

[Potato]

She-Hulk is fun, Rings of Power is good and getting better every episode. Man-children threatened by a few women in their superhero/fantasy shows are stupid.

You seriously buy into that?

Galadriel has done nothing less or more than an elf is capable of in Tolkein's world. I was more pissed off at ninja Legolas than anything Galadriel has done and she is a legendary figure in LotR mythology. She is not just a gender-swapped male character. She is dealing with trauma and hatred and fear. Her people faced an existential threat and now nobody believes her when she says it's coming back.

I've had my problems with She-Hulk and the general man-hating going on in that show, but hey it's not being written for me at all. I'm still enjoying watching it because it's fun and silly and very non-MCU, which is a massive plus after some of the shit Disney has excreted recently.

Most blokes who hate RoP are just screeching manbabies...yes.

Most blokes who hate She-Hulk are just upset the show isn't for them.

Both sets of people need to get a grip and go watch something else. It's not really that difficult these days.

[Tuckers Law]

Like I said, well and truly poisoned.  You’ll continue to insist that most detraction is because of manbabies and chuds, and I’ll continue to insist on calling that out as distinguished mentally-challenged.  The impasse remains.

Looking forward to the next big property that preempts its release by letting us know that all its detractors are misogynists and racists.  I’m sure the conversation will be different that time.

[Uncle]

for any given entertainment product of any kind there is valid criticism to be found

12 Angry Men is probably my favorite film of all time, and I can find issues with it.  the old man is not a very good actor.  the choice to use diegetic rain noise makes it harder to hear in the latter half.  if someone said its minor flaws added up to them hating the film overall I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand.  criticism should always be welcome, because it's how we grow and improve

and if you say "well I'm not talking about the valid criticism, I'm talking about the extremely populous manbabies etc etc" I'm gonna need valid citation.  I've tried listening to some of the podcasts and videos of the kind of people others call manbabies, like MauLer and Critical Drinker, and often found their points reasonable and at least well thought-out if nothing else

there's so much to see online that it's easier to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is being a disingenuous asshole with an agenda than actually taking the time to listen

it hurts to hear something you like being criticized, I know it, but it's ok

they can't hurt the thing and they can't hurt you, they're just ideas

[Polident Hive]

I just don’t see any of it as organic anymore. Well oiled machine from every party. It’s insane to see it built into marketing.

Long ago, in a different time, 2015: Mad Max Fury Road came out. Some dorks yelled about Furiosa emasculating Max. They called for a boycott. Nobody cared. The studio didn’t engage. Helps they didn’t need to overcompensate.

Anyway, a TV was on in my vicinity. There’s an ad for an Emmett Till movie. Or more accurately, a movie about his mother and her activism. It’s a fine story. What’s odd is how the ad was a giant content warning. The director speaks to the viewers and says it features no violence against black people. I get that it’s trying to say what it’s not. Even find it admirable to avoid re-enacting the tragedy. At the same time, really fuckin weird that it’s a TV ad.

[james]

She hulk
 beloved literary characters.

 

[Phoenix Dark]

I think it's less them being threatened by strong women and moreso being disgusted at women's mere presence in This Thing Of Ours - ie children's entertainment, like Star Wars and superhero stuff. Anything that doesn't center their wants and needs as an overgrown white manbaby is a problem. All the politics and messages that went over their heads when they were children are suddenly recognizable with new media. Granted I've said before that a lot of this shit is written by people who can't write, don't read, and aren't talented. That's where a lot of the tumblr and twitter-centric dialogue in television comes from. But for the most part it doesn't SOUND like LOTR is some woke shit (I haven't seen it!). There are black elves in it, which is weird to me, and Galadriel is maybe more "badass" than the righteous warrior/leader she is in the books but...ok? So why the overreaction......unless it's just guys who think something was taken from them because some minorities are involved, and a woman is the main character.

[benjipwns]

twitter.com/jameelajamil/status/1576734041985777664

How can it be "number 1 in the ratings" when there's no streaming ratings because the companies won't release the metrics for independent evaluation? That one attempt at determining the viewer count of Disney+ shows figured that the most popular of them (Loki) only barely got over 2 million. That's worse than the Arrowverse shows do on The CW.

[Uncle]

benji what was the article you linked a while back where they picked a random demographic like chinese dentists and cherry picked news stories to find 5 of them who were unrepentant murderers and used that to falsely claim there's some sort of epidemic of murderous chinese dentists

kind of like extrapolating from the Quartering that there must be millions of such surface level agenda dorks trying to tear down media you consume

[Potato]

No one is saying that all criticism is from chuds and manbabies. In fact, I've been critical of both shows in certain aspects. What is being said is that (the small minority of) people who write both shows off simply because of some culture war bullshit are fucking idiots.

[HardcoreRetro]

Didn't they start with the culture war offensive themselves. These shows look like the TV version of the new Saints Row game.

[HaughtyFrank]

I don't think it's easy to say who really started it but I definitely get the impression that there are a lot of people, on both sides, who happily fan the flames

[james]

According to the ancient ledgers, the culture war first started when Starbucks removed the word Christmas from their seasonal holiday cups

[Potato]

I don't think it's easy to say who really started it but I definitely get the impression that there are a lot of people, on both sides, who happily fan the flames

(Image removed from quote.)

Definitely, and no doubt the creators of these shows pre-empted the stupid comments as a marketing tool. Still doesn't make either show bad. Just makes the culture warriors from both sides look like dicks.

[benjipwns]

Definitely, and no doubt the creators of these shows pre-empted the stupid comments as a marketing tool. Still doesn't make either show bad. Just makes the culture warriors from both sides look like dicks.

You're thinking of the old ways where what you like is determined by whether or not you like it. Now you have to determine whether or not the right people like or dislike it then adjust your own personal views accordingly.

[Phoenix Dark]

There's a clear marketing benefit from it. I get the sense that certain writers love changing around race/gender/sexuality of characters more than actually writing compelling characters. And of course the anti-woke reactions come immediately within that bubble. The thing I don't get is the corporate appeal. Sure with Disney I get that a black Little Mermaid is going to do great at the box office, white kids and black kids will see it. But what's the financial incentive for thinking about making Bond black? Where's the financial incentive in a black Dr. Who, or rehashing random IPs with a diverse lead (Quantum Leap on NBC for instance). That shit never works.

[Tuckers Law]

That’s from the pervasiveness of the concept that people are unable to identify with characters unless those characters look just like them and identify just like them, taken to its poisonous extreme.  As with most things, it started out with good enough intentions (no huge reason a character like the Doctor can’t be black/women/etc.), and then spread wildly out of control when social media autists latched on and made it look like a big and marketable selling point.  So writers now write to the checklist first, character and story second.

The inherent misogyny and racism implied by these assholes saying women can’t identify with a character unless they’re exactly like them, or that black people cant identify with characters unless they themselves are black, is appalling.

[james]

The inherent misogyny and racism implied by these assholes saying women can’t identify with a character unless they’re exactly like them, or that black people cant identify with characters unless they themselves are black, is appalling.

The fuck are you talking about? Nobody identifies with characters. Nobody with an IQ over 50 anyway.

Do you really watch James Bond and think "yes, that man is just like me". If so, youre a fucking idiot. Youre nothing like James fucking Bond. Hes a badass, youre an obese internet forum slug.

"Mommy I dont want to watch the Lion King Im not a lion"

GTFO of here with that shit.

[Tuckers Law]

You’re a fucking moron and deliberately gaslighting.  Obviously people identify with characters and their stories in media, otherwise there wouldn’t ever be a push for gender and race swapping.  If you can’t see that you may as well stick your head in an oven and do the rest of your family a favor.  In fact do that regardless, you’re a po-faced dipshit that everyone wishes they could avoid.

Similar fears and struggles for characters are often examined by people in a personal light, even if they otherwise have little in common.  For instance, James, perhaps you are not white or have a sister, or have been in prison yet, but I’ve little doubt you still identify with and appreciate the struggles of remorse shown by Kevin Bacons character in The Woodsman, on account of you both being pedophiles.

[Potato]

Something...something...escalated quickly...

[james]

Obviously people identify with characters and their stories in media, otherwise there wouldn’t ever be a push for gender and race swapping. 

The push is for equal opportunity in hiring dumbass. If every lead is a white male, how the fuck is a black woman going to get a job acting?

There is also a push for more original story-telling because there is nothing entertaining about watching the same shit over and over again.

Providing acting/writing/directing opportunities to a wider group of people with different backgrounds and experiences is how you get fresh stories instead of the same recycled little white boy shit you consume with great pleasure. The "woke shit" you're spasaming again is how we got incredible movies by excellent mexican directors like Alfonso Cuaron, Del Toro, and Alejandro González Iñárritu.

Is your favorite media Spongebob because you identify being an ugly ass imbecile with the IQ of a literal ocean sponge?

[BIONIC]

SpongeBob isn’t ugly 

[Uncle]

po-faced

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/emfundertaker/status/1576920319113441280

[Potato]

What a fucking knob

[james]

So I was trying to read this morning's WSJ article on employment numbers and I realized I couldnt identify with the numbers so I lost interest

[HaughtyFrank]

There's a clear marketing benefit from it. I get the sense that certain writers love changing around race/gender/sexuality of characters more than actually writing compelling characters. And of course the anti-woke reactions come immediately within that bubble. The thing I don't get is the corporate appeal. Sure with Disney I get that a black Little Mermaid is going to do great at the box office, white kids and black kids will see it. But what's the financial incentive for thinking about making Bond black? Where's the financial incentive in a black Dr. Who, or rehashing random IPs with a diverse lead (Quantum Leap on NBC for instance). That shit never works.

I think for some it's just about making any splash at all, even if it's negative. Like a few pages ago there was Magic The Gathering announcing a Lord of the Rings collectors card set that for some reason made Aragorn black. As far as I understand it these are purely collectibles with no story, lore or anything attached, so it's not even like anyone finally wanted to tell that story of black Aragorn. It's hard to see a reason why you wouldn't just portray the characters as they're know from the book and movie.
But race swapping the character did get people talking about it, people who probably otherwise would have never wasted a breath on a Lotr and Magic the gathering collaboration, and then I think what they're really hoping for, is that they'll also get a positive backlash to the backlash, where people now feel compelled to support that product or else the racists win.

[james]

This is pretty funny

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1577687131400683521


Your average 8 year old is aware that Velma is gay as fuck and always has been.

[HaughtyFrank]

Why is Steven Crowder appropriating Nathan Drake's look?

Also even if you believe Velma wasn't gay before, I'm quite certain she was never established as straight either

[benjipwns]

I've never been able to take Steven Crowder seriously because I was introduced to him as a "comedian" who almost immediately attempted to seriously debate Amy Schumer of all people on the merits of abstinence before marriage or some shit on a laid back show where she was just doing jokes and she beat the absolute shit out of him while mocking him with jokes. That seems like something your career should never recover from.

Worse, he's Canadian.

[Phoenix Dark]

Guess I'll have to erase my Velma sex fantasy, which included the line "it's bigger when I take my glasses off," from my memory banks.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

"Jinkies" is actually an extremist feminist dogwhistle phrase meaning "all men are rapists, death to the patriachy"

[Potato]

Why is Steven Crowder appropriating Nathan Drake's look?

Also even if you believe Velma wasn't gay before, I'm quite certain she was never established as straight either

My first thought was, "Why is a grown man wearing a fucking harness...indoors?"

[james]

https://twitter.com/theserfstv/status/1577500016494903298

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/Sturgeons_Law/status/1577318601454809088

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/JacquesHoerrida/status/1577320637894377478
https://twitter.com/JacquesHoerrida/status/1577330630253223941
https://twitter.com/JacquesHoerrida/status/1577331953761767425

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