The coming console war

[Rahxephon91]

I’m sure it feels better. I don’t really care. I also doubt most people do care or even have the tv to do it.

And no I would like Lost Odyssey at 4K and or 60. Titanfall 2 has been fine on consoles forever.

[bork]

Maybe not a gimmick, but I doubt there’s many who can take advantage of it. Titanfall 2 and ME already looked and ran great on the One X. Would rather have these efforts put forward on games that can use it like say Lost Odyssey and so on.

One of the big advantages that the Xbox line has over Playstation is compatibilty.  Xbox One X and Series can run at 1440P.  IIRC they also can do 1080P or 1440P 120 FPS with HDMI 2.0 so more TVs should be able to do this, not to mention a ton of monitors out there.  But need confirmation on that.

Gaming monitors as a whole are either 4K, or  1080P/1440P 144/240HZ. It's been this way for years at this point. Top end TVs last year were all about high refresh rates and adaptive sync.

Refresh rates aren't a gimmick. Might as well say game performance or feel as a whole doesn't matter. Higher refresh rates feel better to play. Tons of videos detail this. It isn't just about some sort of competitive edge, game feel benefits a fuck ton from high framerate and refresh rates.

You have the choice of games looking better (4K), or running/feeling better (144/240HZ)

Or both -and you can get 4K 144hz- it's just going to cost you. 

One of the reasons why people are so excited about HDMI 2.1 right now is that means 4K 120hz on much larger panels for a considerably cheaper price than a large format gaming display would cost.  A 55" OLED LG CX is around $1500-ish.  A 55" OLED Alienware monitor is like $3000.

And for anyone who glossed over it or missed it, you can also get PS5 to run at 1080P 120hz on compatible monitors with HDMI 2.0 ports.  Not sure about TVs that have this but it's worth checking.  Has to do with downscaling- 1440P monitors that can accept 4K signals can do this, for example.

[Nintex]

That's probably 120fps / 1080p (or a lower dynamic resolution)

[bork]

A solid 120/144fps in fast-paced games is fantastic.

I hope to someday actually experience 120fps. 

My experience with it is that it's hard to tell a difference once you're over 100 frames or so, but regardless, it's pretty awesome- everything just feels so incredibly smooth.  It's mainly a bigger deal in competitive FPS games and the like because with a good, fast monitor, you're getting insanely smooth motion and minimal input lag.

[bork]

That's probably 120fps / 1080p (or a lower dynamic resolution)

Yeah, just checked- same deal as Playstation 5.  You can have a 1440P monitor drop to 1080P/120 FPS.  There's just way more compatible monitors out there that Xbox can use compared to Playstation.

I hate that Sony won't add 1440P resolution.  It sucks worse when a response given about it was "we can add it at any time if there is enough demand for it."


Why would you NOT add it then?

But as it is, the monitor I'm using downscales PS4 Pro 4K to 1440P beautifully.

[Rahxephon91]

Is that true? I hooked my Series X up to my 1440p 175hz monitor and it wouldn’t allow that.

“1440p can only do 1440p @ 60hz. The monitors are not equipped with HDMI 2.1 to allow for 1440p @ 120hz. You can only get 1440p @ 120hz if you use the display port, which the Xbox does not have.Nov 10, 2020“

Either way it’s a feature I bet about 90% of the users can’t use.

[bork]

Is that true? I hooked my Series X up to my 1440p 175hz monitor and it wouldn’t allow that.

“1440p can only do 1440p @ 60hz. The monitors are not equipped with HDMI 2.1 to allow for 1440p @ 120hz. You can only get 1440p @ 120hz if you use the display port, which the Xbox does not have.Nov 10, 2020“

Either way it’s a feature I bet about 90% of the users can’t use.

Yeah, just posted this right when you did!  You should be able to get 1080P 120 HZ, though.

[Tuckers Law]

A solid 120/144fps in fast-paced games is fantastic.

I hope to someday actually experience 120fps. 

My experience with it is that it's hard to tell a difference once you're over 100 frames or so, but regardless, it's pretty awesome- everything just feels so incredibly smooth.  It's mainly a bigger deal in competitive FPS games and the like because with a good, fast monitor, you're getting insanely smooth motion and minimal input lag.

In my experience a high and solid frame rate is awesome for RTS’s as well as FPS’s.

[thetylerrob]

Don't ask me how it would work, but a fighting game designed specifically for high refresh rate monitors would be cool.

[bork]

Don't ask me how it would work, but a fighting game designed specifically for high refresh rate monitors would be cool.

Samurai Shodown (2019) on XBox Series X runs at 120hz. 



Not that you can tell from this video, since Youtube is capped at 60 fps. 

Apparently Fantasy Strike and Power Rangers on PC run at high refresh rates too.  Might need to try those.  The games still should feel pretty much the same as 60 FPS, but the input lag should be lower.

[Himu]

A post to celebrate my love for PlayStation

[Himu]

[remy]

Don't ask me how it would work, but a fighting game designed specifically for high refresh rate monitors would be cool.

The current crop of games I think already have issue with motion clarity at 60 fps. Having the extra tween frames in fast games like SF, smash and guilty would really make things more readable, I think

[Himu]

Good God I was obsessed with MGS1 before it came out. I couldn't believe they were making a game straight out of Hollywood.

I first saw a trailer for the game in OPM. They had a demo disc with an MGS1 trailer on it. I had to have it.

Later they managed to put out an MGS1 demo that you picked up at Pizza Hut. I didn't get past the first room for 30-40 minutes just fucking around. I got the game for Christmas 98 and was hooked. What a game.

The aforementioned trailer.



 MGS1 is still great to this day, shooting and all.

[Himu]

Holy shit, I'm old.

[Tuckers Law]

I still remember buying MGS for $35 off my friend who was done with it.  My dad was all, “why”...pfft, you don’t know, old man.  This is solid fucking snake.

[Himu]

Sniper Wolf

[MMaRsu]

How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.

I uh what

Satisfied with 30??? Are u ok?

[Pissy F Benny]

idgaf about 30fps, as long as the game doesn't turn I to a slide slow I'm gucci

[MMaRsu]

idgaf about 30fps, as long as the game doesn't turn I to a slide slow I'm gucci

30fps is fine if its 30 throughout, but 60 just feels so much better. I dont understand how one can say either 60 or 120fps is a gimmick I dunno

[Svejk]

Even though I have yet to see 120fps, 60fps to 120fps seems to be only for the e-sport extremists type.. The thought of 120fps sounds almost inhuman, as light bulb flashes at 60 times a second.  It's not even noticeable to the human eye. I can't imagine I'll ever have the need for 120fps.  It would be nice to have the option I suppose... just seems unnecessary for 95% of gamers out there.

[Don Rumata]

You can definitely tell the difference between 60 and 120, even just in the mouse cursor moving around more smoothly.
That said, it's a diminishing return thing, so it doesn't feel as drastic as the jump between 30 and 60, even though it's double the amount of frames being added.

240fps, now that's probably just for esports types, LinusTechTips had a video testing that:

[Himu]

How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.

I uh what

Satisfied with 30??? Are u ok?

Fighting, racing, and fps are the only games I demand be 60. Played Bloodborne, which is 30, and loved it just fine. It's not that important to me.

[MMaRsu]

Lel

i also loved it at broken 30fps with bad framepacing, doesnt mean it would be a better experience at 60 🤷🏼‍♂️

[HardcoreRetro]

The thought of 120fps sounds almost inhuman, as light bulb flashes at 60 times a second.  It's not even noticeable to the human eye. I can't imagine I'll ever have the need for 120fps.

Most lightbulbs flash at 120 hz. The ones in the 50/60hz range are pretty noticable from your peripheral vision. (We in the Netherlands had Crt tvs running at 50hz back in the day and you could most definitely see it flickering.)

[Tuckers Law]

In fairness to Cindi, I think what she’s touching on is that not having a faster frame rate isn’t a detriment to her enjoyment of most good games, which I would agree with pretty much entirely.

[Don Rumata]

It depends on the stability also.

I tried replaying Bloodborne a couple of years back, and the stuttering + shitty image quality gave me a headache, and couldn't continue.
Some games that are 30 but very smoothly paced, are more acceptable.

[mormapope]

In fairness to Cindi, I think what she’s touching on is that not having a faster frame rate isn’t a detriment to her enjoyment of most good games, which I would agree with pretty much entirely.

That's definitely fair. I'd say anyone saying it's a waste or unwarranted isn't fair. This hobby has a lot of different options and getting more bang for your buck for any game or device is beneficial.

We're at the cusp of consoles having high performance options being standard. Which is something a lot of people could or would enjoy.

[Rahxephon91]

Its kind of a waste when there plenty of other 30fps BC games that could be updated instead of adding a feature that most can't use.

[mormapope]

It's kind of not a waste that support is added and people get to enjoy using a new feature they haven't used or experienced before.

What's gonna be next on the "this thing that people enjoy but I don't therefore it sucks" bingo card? So far we have backwards compatibility, storefronts and access to games, game pass, and now support for monitors and tvs.

[Beezy]

Its kind of a waste when there plenty of other 30fps BC games that could be updated instead of adding a feature that most can't use.

You do realize they're not done adding FPS boost to games, right? Maybe it was just easier/quicker to do on these EA games.

[Himu]

I can definitely see the benefit with fps games. Those old unreal games were higher than 60 right?

[Svejk]

Playing Control on PS5 was a unique experience.  I jumped between graphics mode and performance mode way more than expected.  When going around environments with heavy reflections and lighting, graphics mode...  Tougher, more intense boss fights, performance mode.   This becoming a thing now is definitely welcome... at least for Control.  With games like Demon's Souls, there's very little reason to play in graphics mode... Toggled it once..  won't do that again.

[Tuckers Law]

True DeS experience should always have it looking a little jank!  Framedrops in swamp and muddy textures galore!

[Rahxephon91]

I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.


Battlefield 4 runs at 120fps. Does it still have a sub 1080p Rez?

Catalyst runs at 120fps. Does it still look like crap?

[HardcoreRetro]

And what's with this dang newfangled HD? Back in my day we had 576p.

[MMaRsu]

I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.


Battlefield 4 runs at 120fps. Does it still have a sub 1080p Rez?

Catalyst runs at 120fps. Does it still look like crap?

Even if your tv doesnt support 60fps im still sure 120fps gives you better performance even if your tv doesnt display 120fps

but maybe im talking outta my ass but Im pretty sure I looked that up once

[Rahxephon91]

If your tv doesn’t  support 120hz, the Xbox doesn’t output 120fps.

I don’t think you get any improvement.

[bork]

Even though I have yet to see 120fps, 60fps to 120fps seems to be only for the e-sport extremists type.. The thought of 120fps sounds almost inhuman, as light bulb flashes at 60 times a second.  It's not even noticeable to the human eye. I can't imagine I'll ever have the need for 120fps.  It would be nice to have the option I suppose... just seems unnecessary for 95% of gamers out there.

I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.

These are very "old man yelling at the clouds" type responses.     Rahx, you've said "I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs" multiple times in this post.  Doesn't matter- it's a new standard that more and more TVs and monitors are going to have going forward. 

You can definitely tell the difference between 60 and 120, even just in the mouse cursor moving around more smoothly.
That said, it's a diminishing return thing, so it doesn't feel as drastic as the jump between 30 and 60, even though it's double the amount of frames being added.

240fps, now that's probably just for esports types, LinusTechTips had a video testing that:

Some of you guys might want to check out your phone screens and see what they're running at- my Pixel 4 XL is 90hz and the difference when just scrolling up and down with it enabled is pretty noticeable versus 60hz.  So you may already have something like this available to compare.

How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.

I uh what

Satisfied with 30??? Are u ok?

Fighting, racing, and fps are the only games I demand be 60. Played Bloodborne, which is 30, and loved it just fine. It's not that important to me.

Looks pretty awesome at 60 fps to me. 



I'd certainly want to play it this way if given the choice.  Ditto for 120 fps- I'm sure Devil May Cry 5 SE on the next-gen consoles is amazing with 120 fps enabled.

In fairness to Cindi, I think what she’s touching on is that not having a faster frame rate isn’t a detriment to her enjoyment of most good games, which I would agree with pretty much entirely.

Definitely- just don't see a reason to be against having better framerate options is all. 

Playing Control on PS5 was a unique experience.  I jumped between graphics mode and performance mode way more than expected.  When going around environments with heavy reflections and lighting, graphics mode...  Tougher, more intense boss fights, performance mode.   This becoming a thing now is definitely welcome... at least for Control.  With games like Demon's Souls, there's very little reason to play in graphics mode... Toggled it once..  won't do that again.

This is why I've become a bigger fan of playing on PC- I can run Control with all the crazy 'graphics' mode stuff enabled and at a better framerate than what 'performance' on a console offers.


Will be interesting to see if devs can get the consoles to do 4K/60 FPS/Full detail/RTX on by the end of the gen.

[Nintex]

120fps is pretty nice. Playing Doom Eternal on those framerates is godly. But 60 > 120fps is not as big a difference for me as 30 > 60fps is.
Still if we get higher framerates or better looking games I'm all for it.

I think we've sort of hit the ceiling with resolutions anyway. Post 4k it really becomes a matter of screen size not resolution.
The way I see it up to 32" you're ok with either 1080p or 1440p. Then between 32" and 65" you definitely want at least 4k or something close to it.

4K/HDR OLED really is a blessing. Whether it is Lord of the Rings or Tennet in 4k, Xenoblade upressed or RTX enabled games like CONTROL. Everything looks so smooth 
In that sense I feel that we really hit a golden age of video games and movies in terms of availability of content at the best possible quality.

[bork]

120fps is pretty nice. Playing Doom Eternal on those framerates is godly. But 60 > 120fps is not as big a difference for me as 30 > 60fps is.
Still if we get higher framerates or better looking games I'm all for it.

Agreed.  And before that even, just having a solid, stable framerate is more important to me than 30 fps, 60 fps, or higher- I'll take a rock-solid 30 over a 60 fps game with a framerate that's all over the place.

I think we've sort of hit the ceiling with resolutions anyway. Post 4k it really becomes a matter of screen size not resolution.
The way I see it up to 32" you're ok with either 1080p or 1440p. Then between 32" and 65" you definitely want at least 4k or something close to it.

From my experience, it's-

1080P: Up to 27" with 24" being the sweet spot.
1440P: From 27" to 32" with 27" being the sweet spot.
4K: 32" and up.  Not sure what the sweet spot is here.  I thought 4K 32" and 4K 55" both looked great.

But that's more for PC usage and less for general console gaming on a TV.  1080P still looks good on my 2011 TV.  As does 720P on my little 19" 2009 TV, lol.

4K/HDR OLED really is a blessing. Whether it is Lord of the Rings or Tennet in 4k, Xenoblade upressed or RTX enabled games like CONTROL. Everything looks so smooth 
In that sense I feel that we really hit a golden age of video games and movies in terms of availability of content at the best possible quality.

Dat black level and response time

[Rahxephon91]

Options are nice. Just don’t think 120fps is neat or should even be a priority when there’s plenty of other things that can be done. Especially when the games you’re enhancing were already fine or have problems keeping 1080p or hitting settings above the medium pc settings.


These consoles barley support Dolby Vision so let’s not talk about what the standards are.

[Svejk]

Playing Control on PS5 was a unique experience.  I jumped between graphics mode and performance mode way more than expected.  When going around environments with heavy reflections and lighting, graphics mode...  Tougher, more intense boss fights, performance mode.   This becoming a thing now is definitely welcome... at least for Control.  With games like Demon's Souls, there's very little reason to play in graphics mode... Toggled it once..  won't do that again.

This is why I've become a bigger fan of playing on PC- I can run Control with all the crazy 'graphics' mode stuff enabled and at a better framerate than what 'performance' on a console offers.


Will be interesting to see if devs can get the consoles to do 4K/60 FPS/Full detail/RTX on by the end of the gen.

I agree, but here's the catch...

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Beezy]

I want a Titanfall 3. :'( :'( :'(

[Himu]

I'm glad that people that care about 120 fps have the option. Options being available on next gen systems honestly just makes them even more appealing than pc. Even though I don't personally care about 120 I can see why others would and I'm glad you all have that option. *thumbs up*

Even though I have yet to see 120fps, 60fps to 120fps seems to be only for the e-sport extremists type.. The thought of 120fps sounds almost inhuman, as light bulb flashes at 60 times a second.  It's not even noticeable to the human eye. I can't imagine I'll ever have the need for 120fps.  It would be nice to have the option I suppose... just seems unnecessary for 95% of gamers out there.

I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.

These are very "old man yelling at the clouds" type responses.     Rahx, you've said "I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs" multiple times in this post.  Doesn't matter- it's a new standard that more and more TVs and monitors are going to have going forward. 

You can definitely tell the difference between 60 and 120, even just in the mouse cursor moving around more smoothly.
That said, it's a diminishing return thing, so it doesn't feel as drastic as the jump between 30 and 60, even though it's double the amount of frames being added.

240fps, now that's probably just for esports types, LinusTechTips had a video testing that:

Some of you guys might want to check out your phone screens and see what they're running at- my Pixel 4 XL is 90hz and the difference when just scrolling up and down with it enabled is pretty noticeable versus 60hz.  So you may already have something like this available to compare.

How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.

I uh what

Satisfied with 30??? Are u ok?

Fighting, racing, and fps are the only games I demand be 60. Played Bloodborne, which is 30, and loved it just fine. It's not that important to me.

Looks pretty awesome at 60 fps to me. 



I'd certainly want to play it this way if given the choice.  Ditto for 120 fps- I'm sure Devil May Cry 5 SE on the next-gen consoles is amazing with 120 fps enabled.

In fairness to Cindi, I think what she’s touching on is that not having a faster frame rate isn’t a detriment to her enjoyment of most good games, which I would agree with pretty much entirely.

Definitely- just don't see a reason to be against having better framerate options is all. 

Playing Control on PS5 was a unique experience.  I jumped between graphics mode and performance mode way more than expected.  When going around environments with heavy reflections and lighting, graphics mode...  Tougher, more intense boss fights, performance mode.   This becoming a thing now is definitely welcome... at least for Control.  With games like Demon's Souls, there's very little reason to play in graphics mode... Toggled it once..  won't do that again.

This is why I've become a bigger fan of playing on PC- I can run Control with all the crazy 'graphics' mode stuff enabled and at a better framerate than what 'performance' on a console offers.


Will be interesting to see if devs can get the consoles to do 4K/60 FPS/Full detail/RTX on by the end of the gen.

BB 60 fps looks good but I honestly don't see how the original BB is unplayable because it's 30. Just something I don't care about unless I'm playing a fighter or arcade game.

[benjipwns]

4K? 120 fps? Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island, Super Mario Kart, and Street Fighter II Turbo are all in 224-240p and most are probably under 30 fps. And probably zero of them run on the base silicon of the SNES. You kids these days with your PlayBox Series 5 and your 144hz TVs...

[benjipwns]

Does Twisted Metal 2 run in the high resolution mode of the PS1? NO! Does it run at 60 fps? lolol Does it have textures? Sorta!

[Tuckers Law]

I would kill for a quality remastering of TM2 for PC and modern systems.  Or even just a fixed version of the PS3 TM.

[Don Rumata]

BB 60 fps looks good but I honestly don't see how the original BB is unplayable because it's 30. Just something I don't care about unless I'm playing a fighter or arcade game.

Just to clarify, i finished the game so obv. it's playable, i'm saying the bad framepacing (causing constant hitching and stuttering) annoys me and gives me a slight motion sickness, too.
So it put me off playing it again.

Since they could easily patch it for 60fps on PS5 there's really no excuse for Sony to keep ignoring one of their most iconic games, when they seem to patch everything else (they patched fucking Days Gone, ffs).

[Don Rumata]

I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.


Battlefield 4 runs at 120fps. Does it still have a sub 1080p Rez?

Catalyst runs at 120fps. Does it still look like crap?

Even if your tv doesnt support 60fps im still sure 120fps gives you better performance even if your tv doesnt display 120fps

but maybe im talking outta my ass but Im pretty sure I looked that up once

This is tested on the video i posted and yes, even at lowers refresh rates, high FPS still reduces input lag and outdated information.
Though maybe on console you have to tie FPS to refresh rate, so i'm not sure it's possible to do.

[Pissy F Benny]

BB 60 fps looks good but I honestly don't see how the original BB is unplayable because it's 30. Just something I don't care about unless I'm playing a fighter or arcade game.

Just to clarify, i finished the game so obv. it's playable, i'm saying the bad framepacing (causing constant hitching and stuttering) annoys me and gives me a slight motion sickness, too.
So it put me off playing it again.

Since they could easily patch it for 60fps on PS5 there's really no excuse for Sony to keep ignoring one of their most iconic games, when they seem to patch everything else (they patched fucking Days Gone, ffs).

there is speculation that the same lads who did the demon souls remake are doing a bloodborne remake/remaster next, but that might be a case of putting 2+2 together instead of anything concrete

[Don Rumata]

I thought BluePoint wanted to move to an original IP, after Demon's.

[Pissy F Benny]

dunno, but Sony charging full price again for bloodborne knowing it will sell like hot cakes instead of doing a 60fps and 4k patch fits their MO these days (in fairness it's probably old enough that the textures might look like shit at 4k without any additional work so they might as well do a proper remaster, plus it's a guaranteed seller unlike trash like days gone remastered, which probably would sell 5 copies)

[bork]

4K? 120 fps? Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island, Super Mario Kart, and Street Fighter II Turbo are all in 224-240p and most are probably under 30 fps. And probably zero of them run on the base silicon of the SNES. You kids these days with your PlayBox Series 5 and your 144hz TVs...

Most sprite games from that era were 60 fps.   

It was most of the polygon games on the SNES and Genesis that had much lower framerates.

[Tasty]

Yeah the big deal with PAL even in SNES days is that it was capped at 50fps while USA/JP were 60fps.

Edit- This is a cool post: https://www.reddit.com/r/snes/comments/9f9r9q/testing_if_pal_snes_games_are_optimized_for_50_hz/

"Zero of them run on the base silicon of the SNES"

Wat

Pretty sure Unreal Engine didn't exist back then benji, they were still coding ASM to the metal.

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Super_NES_Programming/Introduction_to_assembly

[Pissy F Benny]

one of the reasons i'm not a framerate autisty tbh is probably because i grew up playing pal shit

[Nintex]

50hz Sonic with the music slowdown.
I still don't understand how the megadrive was so popular here everything ran like shit while Nintendo had fixed most issues by the time the SNES released. Anything not made by Rare on the N64 though   

[Pissy F Benny]

did they fix the music being tied to the lesser framerate in the ps1/n64 era cos I don't remember that any songs from Tony Hawk 1 or 2 sounded all wrong (it has been over 20 years tbf )

[Nintex]

did they fix the music being tied to the lesser framerate in the ps1/n64 era cos I don't remember that any songs from Tony Hawk 1 or 2 sounded all wrong (it has been over 20 years tbf )

Yeah they fixed it later.

The second level of Sonic with the flickering lava is even worse.
In hindsight that probably gave a generation of kids epilepsy.



This is what you hear before you hit the floor foaming out of your mouth

[Don Rumata]

Another problem of PAL games (at least some of them) was the black bars on top and bottom, squishing the image vertically.