Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba baaaa

[Tristam]

September 26th: first debate

It's a foreign policy debate so McCain already has the perceived advantage. I hope the Obama camp realizes this could be the game changer and prepares accordingly. It would be awesome if someone like Chuck Hagel agreed to be Obama's sparring partner to warm up for this.

Obama can talk to Hagel if he wants to hash out some foreign policy conundrum through discussion.

If he's preparing for McCain he just needs someone who is willing to study and become a McCain surrogate, using the same memes, catchphrases, and speech patterns that McCain would use.

Which reminds me, this old Atlantic article on Al Gore is fun stuff for politics geeks.

I remember reading that in eighth grade when I first started to pay attention to politics. The Atlantic cover was awesome -- it was caricature of Gore with his lip curled in a snarl (revealing a canine tooth) with the subtitle (I think) reading "Al Gore acquires a taste for the jugular."

[Fresh Prince]

Protip: The president has very little to do with the economy especially employment.

Raise tariffs. Subsidise manufacturing. But neither party rolls like that.

[Eric P]

September 26th: first debate

It's a foreign policy debate so McCain already has the perceived advantage. I hope the Obama camp realizes this could be the game changer and prepares accordingly. It would be awesome if someone like Chuck Hagel agreed to be Obama's sparring partner to warm up for this.

If he's preparing for McCain he just needs someone who is willing to study and become a McCain surrogate, using the same memes, catchphrases, and speech patterns that McCain would use.

he must find the political Crushed?

[Human Snorenado]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/rangel.congress/index.html

on top of

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/nyregion/11rangel.html?_r=3&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Any reason why he should still be head of the House W&M committee?

Rengel wanted to have an earmark build a building in New York that was going to have a statue of himself and be named after himself. That's a big no-no in congress. IMO

While I'll agree that's pretty wankerish, earmarks make up like .6% of the budget deficit, and an even smaller amount of the overall budget.  This Republican focus on earmarks is nonsensical.

[Beardo]

Just finished watching all 4 of the o'reilly interviews.  If you haven't seen them yet they're on youtube.  I have to say they're easily some of the best interviews I've seen with Obama and they eally put Olbermann's 2-day interview to shame. 

How much cum did Olbermann have on his chin after the interview?

[TakingBackSunday]

Heh

[MrAngryFace]

I agree, the olbermann interview was SNORE. People knock the ABC interview of Plain (and rightly so), but this one gets ignored? Its the same shit. Anyway here's Obama on Letterman commenting on the lipstick crap:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/10/obama-appears-on-letterma_n_125509.html

OReilly has also come out against the Lipstick comment, which is a surprise to me.

[Human Snorenado]

I agree, the olbermann interview was SNORE. People knock the ABC interview of Plain (and rightly so), but this one gets ignored? Its the same shit. Anyway here's Obama on Letterman commenting on the lipstick crap:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/10/obama-appears-on-letterma_n_125509.html

OReilly has also come out against the Lipstick comment, which is a surprise to me.

Not really, that's a pretty easy thing for O'Reilly to slam so that he occasionally appears to be "independent".  All for show.

But yeah, Keith's interview with Obama was a major snorefest.  Letterman actually had a better interview!  I wish Dave would have talked more about the environment with Obama tho, since that's like Dave's pet issue these days.  Also, after only three shows Rachel Maddow has already become the best show on MSNBC if not all of cable news.  Which isn't saying much, but her show is quite good. 

[MrAngryFace]

Rachel rocks, I agree.

[Human Snorenado]

Rachel rocks, I agree.

Unlike Olbermann, she's not afraid to have conservatives on her show.  Probably because she's smarter than them and has a really good way of not letting people bullshit her or the audience.  Hell, she's had Pat Buchanan, noted culture warrior and anti-gay rights advocate on multiple times already.

[MrAngryFace]

She doesn't do Olbermann's CAMERA 1 CAMERA 2 CAMERA 1 CAMERA 2 rants that I hate o so much.

[Mr. Gundam]

Yeah, Rachel's show is great.  I only got to see the first one.  The second one got wiped from my Tivo and I was pre-occupied last night.  Are they available online at all?  I know Countdown finally has full video episodes available on itunes.

I've been listening to her on Air America Radio for a while now, it's great. Easily the best thing on the station.

Did the Palin interview on ABC already happen? I was fixing the plumbing in my house all last night.

[Phoenix Dark]

that's not saying much

[Mr. Gundam]

that's not saying much

No, it's not, but she's good. She doesn't whine and complain like every other show on Air America.

[Beardo]

Rachel was really annoying during the conventions. I hated how she would try to debate Buchanan on issues. I was like "Shut the fuck up and let the man speak, he knows more about politics than you ever will."

[hyp]

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/09/11/obama-on-letterman/

how can you not like this guy.

[MrAngryFace]

CAMERA 1

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

CAMERA 2

HOW DARE YOU

CAMERA 1

TO HAVE THE AUDACITY

CAMERA 2

TO SAY STUFF I DONT AGREE WITH

CAMERA 1

YOU ARE BAD AMERICAN

CAMERA 2

BACK TO CAMERA 1

CAMERA 1

BACK TO CAMERA 2

CAMERA 2

GOOD

CAMERA 1

NIGHT

CAMERA 2

AMER

CAMERA 1

ICA

[hyp]

maf would make a great tv director. 

[AdmiralViscen]

I wanna see Maddow's show, is it on 5 nights a week?

[Human Snorenado]

I wanna see Maddow's show, is it on 5 nights a week?

Yeah, but it's not on tonight because McCain and Obama are doing a leadership forum or some shit.  However, you can find her show's MSNBC site complete with video here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/

[AdmiralViscen]

you guys

[MrAngryFace]

Speaking of MAF - I poop with headphones on sometimes when I'm at work.  I figure, if I can't hear it nobody else can.  At least I feel better about myself

I have wireless headphones for my tv, so when I gotta poop I can and not miss a beat. bam

[Phoenix Dark]

Speaking of MAF - I poop with headphones on sometimes when I'm at work.  I figure, if I can't hear it nobody else can.  At least I feel better about myself

I have wireless headphones for my tv, so when I gotta poop I can and not miss a beat. bam

i don't know what to say about this

[MrAngryFace]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/abc-on-troopergate-womens_n_125670.html

[Mr. Gundam]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/abc-on-troopergate-womens_n_125670.html

Huffington is blocked at work, what does the article say?

[Fragamemnon]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/abc-on-troopergate-womens_n_125670.html

Huffington is blocked at work, what does the article say?

it's a video with a bunch of angry white women in alaska who hate their fundie witch governor.

[MrAngryFace]

Huffington is blocked?

[Phoenix Dark]

What the polls are missing
http://www.theseminal.com/2008/09/10/what-the-polls-are-missing-part-1-the-obama-ground-game/?
(MUST read)

that post+chillthefuckoutigotthis.jpg=me feeling less panicked. Not that these new polls are making me feel bad, I just find myself thinking about the possibility of an Obama loss all the time. I've been feeling rather confident lately which scares me

[MrAngryFace]

Im just assuming the worst, cause this year hasnt been so hot for me.

[Phoenix Dark]

yea since this started i reserved myself to just assuming Obama would lose regardless and i still kinda hold that position, but I'm getting more confident

but it sucks that soooo many people are going to walk into the booth and vote entirely on bullshit "issues" like Wright/flagpin/etc

[Mandark]

I was going to post something about this in the last thread where Triumph was calling the election political Ragnarok, but it got locked and I forgot.

Whether Obama or McCain wins, the Democrats are going to take more seats in Congress.  The Republican party has shredded their brand and is clinging to a shrinking base.  The polling data of youth voters and demographic trends should have them terrified.

We're moving into a phase of American politics where a Republican has to run away from his party while the Democratic candidate can embrace his.

I think McCain would be an awful president, but I don't think his victory would change anything about the fundamental dynamic and that's what will be important over the next decade or two.

[laesperanzapaz]

i think you're underestimating what a sitting president can wrought upon the nation vs. the congress

[Phoenix Dark]

 
ABC interview: Palin Warns of War With Russia if it Invades Another Country
http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/11/a...other-country/

 

[Human Snorenado]

What the polls are missing
http://www.theseminal.com/2008/09/10/what-the-polls-are-missing-part-1-the-obama-ground-game/?
(MUST read)

that post+chillthefuckoutigotthis.jpg=me feeling less panicked. Not that these new polls are making me feel bad, I just find myself thinking about the possibility of an Obama loss all the time. I've been feeling rather confident lately which scares me

It scares me too, start extolling the virtues of a Palin Presidency and how it's inevitable.

[Human Snorenado]

I was going to post something about this in the last thread where Triumph was calling the election political Ragnarok, but it got locked and I forgot.

Whether Obama or McCain wins, the Democrats are going to take more seats in Congress.  The Republican party has shredded their brand and is clinging to a shrinking base.  The polling data of youth voters and demographic trends should have them terrified.

We're moving into a phase of American politics where a Republican has to run away from his party while the Democratic candidate can embrace his.

I think McCain would be an awful president, but I don't think his victory would change anything about the fundamental dynamic and that's what will be important over the next decade or two.

While I agree long term, I think that it would just be for the best to consolidate power in the Dems hands and see if they can actually get something done right for a change.  I'd like to see actual progress on issues that loom large- economic inequality, health care, the environment, etc etc.  While I do think that if McCain got elected it would piss Democrats off to the extent that it would result in pretty much absolute gridlock in Washington including no longer funding the war in Iraq, I would rather see actual solutions to problems.  I know from looking back at the last 8 years what Republican single party rule looks like, I'd like to see the Dem version sometime in my adult life.

[MrAngryFace]

PALIN WANTS WAR WITH RUSSIA??!! WHODATHUNKIT!

[Phoenix Dark]

Well to be fair her entire statement is more reasonable

First excerpts emerge from Charlie Gibson’s interview with the vice presidential candidate.

Gibson asks if, under the NATO treaty, the U.S. would need to go to war with Russia if it again invades Georgia.

Palin: “Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you’re going to be expected to be called upon and help.”

Adds: “For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable.”

But that brings up an interesting question. The NATO agreement does demand allies help an ally...but if Russia attacked a NATO ally next week would the United States declare war on Russia?

[Mandark]

Georgia's not in NATO, though.

What's the context here?  Did come out in favor of fast-tracking Georgia into NATO and this was the followup question?

[Phoenix Dark]

Gibson frames the question asking what we would have done if Georgia was in NATO. This is the only excerpt from the interview so far

what do you think would have happened? 

[cool breeze]

I don't know of Xbox Live is a good enough segment of America to know what the voting turn out will be, but there are two people with Obama avatars and only one McCain one.  I can't wait for the Obama land slide!

[Human Snorenado]

Huh, reading excerpts from the interview I'm mildly impressed- looks like that FOR HIM, Charlie Gibson asked some decent questions.  I particularly liked this exchange:

GIBSON: You said recently, in your old church, "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God." Are we fighting a holy war?

PALIN: You know, I don't know if that was my exact quote.

GIBSON: Exact words.

PALIN: But the reference there is a repeat of Abraham Lincoln's words when he said -- first, he suggested never presume to know what God's will is, and I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words. But what Abraham Lincoln had said, and that's a repeat in my comments, was let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God's side. That's what that comment was all about, Charlie.

GIBSON: I take your point about Lincoln's words, but you went on and said, "There is a plan and it is God's plan."

PALIN: I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That, in my world view, is a grand -- the grand plan.

GIBSON: But then are you sending your son on a task that is from God?

PALIN: I don't know if the task is from God, Charlie. What I know is that my son has made a decision. I am so proud of his independent and strong decision he has made, what he decided to do and serving for the right reasons and serving something greater than himself and not choosing a real easy path where he could be more comfortable and certainly safer.

Of course by the end of it she plays the family card that the press isn't allowed to play on her.  Anyhow, as obnoxious as Russert often was, it's a shame he's dead because his brand of "gotcha!" journalism is MADE for Palin's lying ass.

[Mandark]

That's kind of a loaded hypothetical, PD.  Assuming NATO membership for Georgia probably assumes a set of conditions that led to it.

If Georgia is munching on some Cracker Jacks one day and finds an official NATO member badge in the box, then I don't think the US intervenes.

But in real life a scenario where Georgia got fast-tracked is probably one where the Ossetia and Abkhazia situations were resolved, Saakashvili understood not to provoke a conflict and expect backup, Russia had been at least partially mollified, and the US had Europe had made the decision that they'd be willing to fight on Georgia's behalf.

[MrAngryFace]

Russias not dumb enough to attack a NATO member........yet.

I think they'd rather get another union vs nato type scenario goin again

[MrAngryFace]

I think my problem with Palin's angle is it reeks of entitlement and I question how far she mentally allows that entitlement to extend. When she says Pursuit of Happiness I hear it as an aggressive selfish pursuit.

"WE ARE ENTITLED TO FUN WITH GUNS AND CARS! DRILL AND KILL". Her stance on the environment alone speaks of her stance on balance, in that she seeks none.

[siamesedreamer]

My guess is that since they are stoopitly sensationalizing the Russia answer, then she must have not made any gaffes.

[MrAngryFace]

I dont expect her to make a lot of gaffes, being constantly isolated and coached.

[Phoenix Dark]

the bar is set so low for her that by just showing up to the VP debate she'll be praised

[Fresh Prince]

I think most conservatives hope that Biden will put his foot in his mouth.

[Mandark]

Collective defense is a sticky wicket.

The main benefit of NATO is that nobody would think of attacking a member.  That's why the only time Article 5 has been invoked was after 9/11, which wasn't a case of another nation making an act of war.

But you run the risk of committing to defend a nation in the expectation that you won't have to, another great power invades that nation in the expectation you won't intervene, both of you have miscalculated, Archduke Franz Ferdinand is dead, the cat's in the bag and the bag's in the water.

[MrAngryFace]

What's tough for Biden is that his bar is much higher than hers. Its almost as if he was going to a community college to debate with a 2-year student. They will pick apart his words, and gloss over much of what is said by her.

[MrAngryFace]

Collective defense is a sticky wicket.

The main benefit of NATO is that nobody would think of attacking a member.  That's why the only time Article 5 has been invoked was after 9/11, which wasn't a case of another nation making an act of war.

But you run the risk of committing to defend a nation in the expectation that you won't have to, another great power invades that nation in the expectation you won't intervene, both of you have miscalculated, Archduke Franz Ferdinand is dead, the cat's in the bag and the bag's in the water.

Its a necessary evil in a global situation, unfortunately. I mean, unless everyone just started getting the fuck along.

[Phoenix Dark]

I think he's gonna take it slow and just destroy McCain's worldview while acknowledging Palin as little as possible. He's said that he isn't concerned about trooper-gate/bridge/etc, he's just focusing on the issues. I think he's going to make an effective case but it probably won't matter unless Palin says/does something totally distinguished mentally-challenged.

[MrAngryFace]

Troopergate will work on its own one way or another.

[duckman2000]

1. Boo Russia for fighting with other neighbors, totally unprovoked too! I can see them from over here, too.
2. Death to Iran, they are a threat because they are (supposedly) trying to build weapons!
3. Well, we can't second guess Israel's actions to defend themselves (like, preemptively) by bombing Iran!

Good grief, why isn't this man laughing at her?

[MrAngryFace]

1. Boo Russia for fighting with other neighbors, totally unprovoked too! I can see them from over here, too.
2. Death to Iran, they are a threat because they are (supposedly) trying to build weapons!
3. Well, we can't second guess Israel's actions to defend themselves (like, preemptively) by bombing Iran!

Good grief, why isn't this man laughing at her?

He'd be laughing at roughly half of America.

[Phoenix Dark]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/sarah-palins-charlie-gibs_n_125772.html
 

this whole country is fucked, we're fucked. i didn't watch my buddies die face down in the mud so this -

[MrAngryFace]

Wow, that Gibson interview was less softball than olbermann droolfest. props.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm sure the introductory aspects of the interview will be softball and that makes sense considering he gets a chance to really have a general discussion with her/let her introduce herself to regular people. But that policy sit down was anything but softball, and he actually followed up on questions. Props indeed. This woman could be president of the United States, we need to know where she stands and whether she's up to the task. Those answers are embarrassing at worst

[duckman2000]

Yeah, I'm somewhat impressed with the interview, although the problem is that these interviews tend to work on the assumption that the viewers/readers are capable of filling in the blanks, and as such they give themselves a bit too great of a margin. Though, if this is how Palin performs during arranged, directed interviews, I don't think she's going to do well in the wild.

[TVC15]

the bar is set so low for her that by just showing up to the VP debate she'll be praised

"She made it to the debate without getting pregnant again!  She wins!"