Author Topic: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread  (Read 4177288 times)

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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39060 on: May 03, 2021, 07:53:02 AM »
I didn't realise Mitchells vs Machines was a Miller / Lord joint, and just assumed it was the usual kids cartoon shit netflix pad their lineup with, but yeah, I watched it and can confirm it's pretty entertaining and had a few genuine LOLs from me, even though I kind of actively hated the main protagonist? It reminded me a lot of 'when it was good' earlyish Simpsons in tone, where it had moments of genuine emotion, but managed to undercut it with a gag just before it became shmaltz and that mostly grounded in reality until its really not and nobody blinks setting.

I especially liked the "hello fellow humans" robot pair, and they mined that for some pretty good bits.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39061 on: May 03, 2021, 03:34:26 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

 :hmm

(Image removed from quote.)

:jeb :jeb :jeb


Was wondering if Harry Knowles was still alive since I haven't heard his name in a hot minute and found out he got MeToo'd in 2017:

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/harry-knowles-sexual-assault-alamo-drafthouse-1201878971/
dog

chronovore

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39062 on: May 03, 2021, 10:51:38 PM »
The Forest: Natalie Dormer goes looking for her missing twin sister in Japan's "Suicide Forest." This is about as good as the first Juon movie, about which I am lukewarm.  The mythology seems inconsistent, or could have used a better explanation. The Japanese people in the film seem like walk-ons in a film about their own culture. A couple neat twists. Trying to figure out why 90% of the names in the credits were eastern European.

The Invisible Man: Elisabeth Moss is fantastic. The direction and editing are a goddamned clinic in suspense and surprise. No cheap jump scares, this film shows you what it's going to do, and then does it, and it's still surprising.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39063 on: May 04, 2021, 04:39:54 AM »


mcu fanboys are jizzing their pants over this, but I'm finding it hard to git hyp for the eternals, shang chi, and the side cast of black panther and captain marvel in ensemble flicks

zomgee

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39064 on: May 04, 2021, 11:36:11 AM »


mcu fanboys are jizzing their pants over this, but I'm finding it hard to git hyp for the eternals, shang chi, and the side cast of black panther and captain marvel in ensemble flicks

I liked it.

I think I am an MCU fanboy.

Trying to extend the Marvel logo theme into each reveal was hilarious though.
rub

Nintex

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39065 on: May 04, 2021, 12:10:13 PM »
At this point we're so starved for cinema(TM) that we would probably watch a Yondu Udonta origin story.

I hope the Black Widow movie is good, the visual style looks 'eh' but it is the one I'm most interested in outside of GOTG 3
🤴

Great Rumbler

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39066 on: May 04, 2021, 06:56:54 PM »
More interested in the MODOK cartoon than any of the Mahvel movies.
dog

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39067 on: May 04, 2021, 07:35:50 PM »
Watching Love & Monsters - If bugs creep you out this movie is way more terrifying than it is trying to be  :lol

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39068 on: May 04, 2021, 08:23:01 PM »
I liked Love and Monsters - wasn't anything special but I enjoyed it.

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39069 on: May 04, 2021, 08:40:02 PM »
Yeah, just finished it. Was a good movie. Thumbs up.

I think this guy would've been better for young Nathan Drake than Tom Holland. And Mark Rooker probably a better Sully than Marky Mark.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39070 on: May 04, 2021, 11:41:18 PM »
Without Remorse was not a great movie but in the upper half Tom Clancy movies.  Had some pretty nice action set-pieces.

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39071 on: May 05, 2021, 01:20:19 AM »
Without Remorse was not a great movie but in the upper half Tom Clancy movies.  Had some pretty nice action set-pieces.

Yeah, that doesn't say a lot for Tom Clancy movies  :doge


I remember liking Hunt for Red October and the Harrison Ford one (Clear and Present Danger?), can't think of any other ones.

naff

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39072 on: May 05, 2021, 01:34:40 AM »
Hunt For Red October is far and away the best one imo. Love that movie.
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Nintex

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39073 on: May 05, 2021, 03:52:50 AM »
The alternative history where political officer Putin slips on his tea and dies  :lawd

And the soundtrack  :whew
🤴

zomgee

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39074 on: May 05, 2021, 02:28:12 PM »
Hunt For Red October is far and away the best one imo. Love that movie.

Patriot Games was pretty great too, except it kinda went on too long.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 03:32:05 PM by zomgee »
rub

Joe Molotov

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39075 on: May 05, 2021, 04:05:32 PM »
https://www.monkeon.co.uk/gifaanisqatsi/

Hypnotic. One of the clips I got was Elon Musk smoking weed with Joe Rogan. :lol
©@©™

naff

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39076 on: May 05, 2021, 06:28:47 PM »
Hunt For Red October is far and away the best one imo. Love that movie.

Patriot Games was pretty great too, except it kinda went on too long.

yeah, it's aiight but pretty dumb. i think Ford's Jack Ryan movies should be better, despite Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger being fine and watchable there's nothing very memorable about either. just a bit disappointingly bland. I enjoy watching Ford on screen though, since seeing him be brilliant in The Mosquito Coast i feel like he's been underutilised. 1 part i remember in Patriot Games that was pretty interesting
spoiler (click to show/hide)
when they use Satellites to watch the team take out that camp in a very business as usual, distanced way. very cool scene. unfortunate it then throws away what could've built into quite an interesting finale showing the aftermath of that scene which we viewed completely divorced from the action and how that relates to the antagonists and their reaction. just nothing, then the team just shows up magically at the ryan residence to kill the derpy royal cousin no-one cares about and would rather have gone anyway ::)
[close]
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 06:38:05 PM by naff »
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Nintex

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39077 on: May 05, 2021, 06:31:46 PM »
https://www.monkeon.co.uk/gifaanisqatsi/

Hypnotic. One of the clips I got was Elon Musk smoking weed with Joe Rogan. :lol
This feels like an Adam Curtis doc on steroids.  :doge
🤴

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39078 on: May 06, 2021, 01:08:24 PM »
I don't know why I've never seen 13 Ghosts before, but I watched 13 ghosts and it is hilarious trash with Matthew Lillard, Tony Shaloub, and F Murray Abraham all competing for biggest ham :lol

zomgee

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39079 on: May 06, 2021, 01:36:31 PM »
Hunt For Red October is far and away the best one imo. Love that movie.

Patriot Games was pretty great too, except it kinda went on too long.

yeah, it's aiight but pretty dumb. i think Ford's Jack Ryan movies should be better, despite Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger being fine and watchable there's nothing very memorable about either. just a bit disappointingly bland. I enjoy watching Ford on screen though, since seeing him be brilliant in The Mosquito Coast i feel like he's been underutilised. 1 part i remember in Patriot Games that was pretty interesting
spoiler (click to show/hide)
when they use Satellites to watch the team take out that camp in a very business as usual, distanced way. very cool scene. unfortunate it then throws away what could've built into quite an interesting finale showing the aftermath of that scene which we viewed completely divorced from the action and how that relates to the antagonists and their reaction. just nothing, then the team just shows up magically at the ryan residence to kill the derpy royal cousin no-one cares about and would rather have gone anyway ::)
[close]

You hit the nail on the head there, the camp scene, other than being cool, had no payoff.

Clear and Present Danger however was a mess. It felt like doing taxes.

rub

Great Rumbler

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39080 on: May 06, 2021, 03:44:04 PM »
I don't know why I've never seen 13 Ghosts before, but I watched 13 ghosts and it is hilarious trash with Matthew Lillard, Tony Shaloub, and F Murray Abraham all competing for biggest ham :lol

You watched the wrong one, breh:

dog

chronovore

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39081 on: May 07, 2021, 05:31:25 AM »
I don't know why I've never seen 13 Ghosts before, but I watched 13 ghosts and it is hilarious trash with Matthew Lillard, Tony Shaloub, and F Murray Abraham all competing for biggest ham :lol
It clearly didn't know what genre it wanted to be. Comedy? Horror? Action?

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39082 on: May 07, 2021, 05:55:25 AM »
You watched the wrong one, breh:

..and Matthew Lillard is the new voice of Scooby Doo :ohhh

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

It clearly didn't know what genre it wanted to be. Comedy? Horror? Action?

From the hilariously OTT opening sequence to the focus on Monks kids, and the general hamming it up from everyone involved, it could have gotten away as a 2spoopy action kids film a la Spy Kids, but then it has an over reliance on the big titted gratuitously naked ghost :rofl

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39083 on: May 09, 2021, 01:07:33 AM »
Rumbler, watched The Kid Detective. It was good, I kind of wish it was better because a little more well written & directed it could've been great. The story was real solid. Reminds me of the book Meddling Kids by Edgar Cantero but more grounded. The concept is a good concept and would be nice to see more takes on it.

Also signed up for a free trial of Starz to watch it and holy hell that channel sucks. Couldn't find one other thing to watch before I cancel it other than the 2019 Bad Boys movie that I never got around to watching.

With all these streaming channels, some of them really suck.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39084 on: May 09, 2021, 09:25:47 AM »
I really loved the kid detective.

Nintex

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39085 on: May 09, 2021, 01:52:15 PM »
Watched Da Vinci Code.

I like this one the best out of the trilogy. The mystery and lore is the most interesting and it has the best pacing out of the three.
The soundtrack builds up nicely towards the end too.

What is less compelling are the 'puzzles' that need solving. Tom Hanks frowns 2 times and then suddenly solves them with his super vision.
I feel like it would've made more sense if they actually needed to do some research instead of going: "Oh right we got it backwards" .
For what is supposed to be the 'biggest secret in the world' the riddles are quite easy to solve. It's also fun that they actually have some french actors other than just Jean Reno

🤴

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39086 on: May 09, 2021, 04:38:30 PM »
I never watched Da Vinci Code but from what I understand it's basically a 90s Sierra point n' click adventure game movie.

I really loved the kid detective.

My bad, meant you Madrun. Yeah you sold me on it and I'm glad I watched it. Just wish Rian Johnson had directed it :P

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39087 on: May 09, 2021, 10:44:45 PM »
Eric Andre's Bad Trip was good. 

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39088 on: May 10, 2021, 07:14:15 AM »
I didn't find it that funny, which is a bit of a killer blow for something relying entirely on being comedic, although Tiffany Haddish was really good and uplifted any scenes she was in.

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39089 on: May 10, 2021, 10:18:00 PM »
Liked Mitchells vs the Machines a lot by the end. Probably one of the best straight to streaming movies yet. Animation & art style is fantastic.

chronovore

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39090 on: May 11, 2021, 12:40:57 AM »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39091 on: May 11, 2021, 10:16:30 AM »


Really excited for this

MMaRsu

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What

Great Rumbler

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39093 on: May 11, 2021, 04:59:57 PM »


Really excited for this

Got hyped for this last year, but then it got delayed because of covid. Glad it's finally coming out.
dog

Quaker

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39094 on: May 11, 2021, 08:47:57 PM »
An A24 medieval movie from the guy who made that slow ghost movie where Rooney Mara eats a pie for five minutes and Casey Affleck is under a literal bed sheet for the rest of it?

Really looking forward to the Discourse on that one. :shaking

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39095 on: May 11, 2021, 08:58:10 PM »
Sounds like a compelling argument for why I should finally watch A Ghost Story.

naff

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39096 on: May 12, 2021, 10:16:58 PM »
i actually quite liked A Ghost Story but i cringed for the entire 10 minutes or so bonnie prince billy was on screen pontificating about beethoven or whatever. 2.5/5
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Transhuman

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39097 on: May 12, 2021, 10:18:42 PM »
Is it literal pie?

naff

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39098 on: May 12, 2021, 10:23:53 PM »
yes, she is wracked with grief at one point and eats a pie then voms
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Quaker

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39099 on: May 12, 2021, 10:27:13 PM »
Yes, a literal vegan chocolate pie.
i actually quite liked A Ghost Story but i cringed for the entire 10 minutes or so bonnie prince billy was on screen pontificating about beethoven or whatever. 2.5/5
Ah, the balding caveman looking guy from Old Joy.

Don Rumata

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39100 on: May 13, 2021, 01:35:07 AM »
Green Knight looks just alright to me, looks like something Netflix would do (and Netflix usually produces garbage).
A24 has a better track record, but they did release quite a few stinkers too, so you never know.

Maybe the fantasy element will make it feel more like a dark souls movie, could be fun that way.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39101 on: May 17, 2021, 11:26:42 AM »
Watched Men In Black: International because I quite enjoyed MIB:3 and wow, what a pile of shit.

Tessa Thompson is the highly unlikable lead who is the bestest MIB that ever lived and is so smart she figured out the MIB exist and forced them to let her join and is endlessly smug about it, paired with Chris Hemsworth, the other highly unlikable lead who is also the bestest MIB that ever lived and is also endlessly smug about it, and they perfunctorily move to different locations as the plot demands with absolutely zero chemistry between them. At no point do you ever think they might be interested in being a couple. At no point do you ever think they might be interested in a friendship. At no point do you ever consider their relation to be anything other than perfunctory work colleagues. Which makes the ending where Tessa is going back to the USA and Chris isn't and they just blankly stare at each other over that news fall hilariously flat.

Those actors fucking ooze charisma in other stuff they've done (and done together!), so I don't know if its the direction or the writing, but neither of them seem to convey that they would piss on the other if they were on fire.

As a comedy, none of the jokes are funny, as an action film, the action all fucking sucks and is just them holding bigger and bigger toy guns and standing there while CGI lasers explode CGI aliens, and as an installment in the franchise it just seemingly does not give a shit anymore.
Remember the 'tiny cricket' gag in MIB when that tiny little gun is insanely powerful, and underlines other thematic elements about judging things based on appearance? Its back again, and played completely straight in a "tiny gun = shit gun" part.
Remember the amusing anecdotes of MIB agents filling in the missing details of the neuralyser with stories about swamp gas or whatever? They don't even fucking bother with explanations now, its just "oh we had a big action sequence and its supposed to be a secret agency *flash*" next scene (where they bother showing it at all) despite the neuralyser and how it works ultimately being a major fucking deal plotwise to the is-it-really-a-twist-if-its-painfully-obvious ending.

Just... fucking wow.
I think I actually liked Ghostbusters 2016 more than this.

Don Rumata

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39102 on: May 17, 2021, 11:55:37 AM »
I didn't think it was as shit as MiB2, but it was the definition of a soulless, pointless movie.

MiB 1 and 3 are the only ones worth watching.

Potato

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39103 on: May 17, 2021, 03:57:20 PM »
I think I watched it. I'm not sure though. That's probably an indictment of the quality.
Spud

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39104 on: May 19, 2021, 11:58:39 PM »
Watched Alexandre Aja's Oxygen. He's a good director, but there's only so much you can do with a "person stuck in a box for 90 mins" movie. It's a good movie but I thought it was a bit slow and dull until about the last 30 mins. Also the main character makes some questionable choices/reactions which is a little frustrating because you're like WHY AREN'T YOU DOING X??

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39105 on: May 21, 2021, 03:23:14 PM »
I see everyone saying Army of the Dead is terrible and that Zach Snyder wrote it.

I'm bummed because I really hoped after Sucker Punch that Zach Snyder the director (enjoyable stylish direction in a good Michael Bay dumb fun way) would have enough sense not to be Zach Snyder the writer (fucking terrible Uwe Bolle level hack) again.

I like Snyder as a director, but he really needs to never touch a script again. He can't write. And it sucks because a Snyder zombie movie with Dave B written by someone else and dumb fun slo-mo entertaining would be very much up my alley. Probably still watch it, but it sounds pretty bad. Sucker Punch was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39106 on: May 21, 2021, 03:24:00 PM »
I'm planing on watching it tonight.  The trailer looked good.

Potato

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39107 on: May 21, 2021, 05:01:45 PM »
The hate for Sucker Punch confuses me. It's a stylish, dumb action flick which thinks it's more clever than it really is, but it's not "one of the worst movies I've ever seen".
Spud

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39108 on: May 21, 2021, 07:31:42 PM »
20 mins in.  It seems like the government abusing civil rights by checking people's temperature and how easy it is for The Law to lie about it is a plot element--opps.

edit:  Tig Notaro getting spliced into scenes :dead
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 07:41:01 PM by Madrun Badrun »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39109 on: May 21, 2021, 09:58:39 PM »
Oof.  This will need a Snyder Cut to actually turn it into a workable heist movie. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
There are like 40 minutes in the middle where they just watch one guy open a big safe by listening to the pins while the zombies just fuck off and leave them alone.  That's the heist.
[close]

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39110 on: May 21, 2021, 09:59:29 PM »
You still alive Madrun?

Or did it turn you into a zombie.



*edit* damnnit, you posted while I posted and ruined the joke  :'(

Don Rumata

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39111 on: May 21, 2021, 10:13:26 PM »
The hate for Sucker Punch confuses me. It's a stylish, dumb action flick which thinks it's more clever than it really is, but it's not "one of the worst movies I've ever seen".
Came out right when the whole sexy=sexist woke thing was picking up steam, and the main character is called babydoll and is dressed like a porn actress.  :yeshrug
Otherwise, people love dumb movies.

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39112 on: May 21, 2021, 11:21:42 PM »
Sucker Punch was just a totally vapid movie. Like a 2 hour+ music video with no substance at all. Was bored out of my mind the entire time.

Don Rumata

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39113 on: May 22, 2021, 12:23:06 AM »
Sucker Punch was just a totally vapid movie. Like a 2 hour+ music video with no substance at all. Was bored out of my mind the entire time.
Yes, that's what's been dominating the box office for a decade+, though.

Potato

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39114 on: May 22, 2021, 09:30:53 AM »
Sucker Punch was just a totally vapid movie. Like a 2 hour+ music video with no substance at all. Was bored out of my mind the entire time.
...and what blockbuster movie hasn't been exactly that for the past 10+ years?
Spud

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39115 on: May 22, 2021, 01:08:53 PM »
Saw a reddit comment pointing out

spoiler (click to show/hide)
That the bad guy was by the entrance when he cut off the zombie head. Could have just left right there.
[close]

:dead

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39116 on: May 22, 2021, 03:19:38 PM »
Sucker Punch was just a totally vapid movie. Like a 2 hour+ music video with no substance at all. Was bored out of my mind the entire time.
Yes, that's what's been dominating the box office for a decade+, though.

Sucker Punch was just a totally vapid movie. Like a 2 hour+ music video with no substance at all. Was bored out of my mind the entire time.
...and what blockbuster movie hasn't been exactly that for the past 10+ years?

 ::)

At least those usually can keep me awake. This was literally like 2 hours of women dancing and shooting with like no plot or characters.

team filler

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39117 on: May 22, 2021, 03:23:07 PM »
saw tig notaro trending. I know this biaaatch ain't even halfway funny, so I wondered what it could be  :neogaf turns out she's in this movie and people are trying to hype the bitch up as some sort of action hero hotty or whatever  :gurl not watching this shid now  :ahnuld2
*****

Nintex

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39118 on: May 22, 2021, 06:50:50 PM »
Sucker Punch was just a totally vapid movie. Like a 2 hour+ music video with no substance at all. Was bored out of my mind the entire time.
So I watched the Extended Edition of Lord of the Rings The Two Towers instead.  :popcorn
🤴

Bebpo

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Re: Movie News, Reviews, and Discussion Super-Thread
« Reply #39119 on: May 23, 2021, 03:44:26 AM »
Went to the movie theater for the first time in 1.3 years? And saw the mehtastic Spiral Saw Movie with Chris Rock.

I mean it wasn't terrible. It was just a super meh police procedural with crappy writing, editing, terrible acting and a shitty ending. Like Chris Rock coming back as "older wiser drama actor Chris Rock"

 :derp

I like Chris Rock, but dude was an awful actor in this. He just felt like older, low energy Chris Rock and he looked kinda like shit. Even Sam Jackson who clearly had the most fun filming felt like he was just reading a bunch of terrible lines. This was a really badly acted movie.

I guess I should watch Army of the Dead next to see which is worse.