The NBA thread

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, looking forward to Knicks vs Celtics. The Knicks suddenly came on my radar with this streak. They're a fun team but my money is on the Celtics for sure, even as banged-up as they are. Asking Pierce about the 'rivalry' was a joke though - he should have said 'What, are we playing the fucking Yankees?! THAT would be a rivalry'

[Cormacaroni]

Knicks vs Celtics is great so far. I'm bewildered why the Cs aren't taking it at Stoudemire on offense when he's the only big man playing for the Knicks. KG and Big Baby should be scoring on him like crazy. Oh well.

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah that turned out to be a really close game.

[Cormacaroni]

Shush your mouth, i'm still watching!

(on International League Pass, which is SO AWESOME. Especially when you work from home and have a 2nd monitor dedicated to NBA). Yes, I'm working right now bwah ha ha ha ha

[Cormacaroni]

Great game!

I really want a gif of Nate Robinson bouncing off Pierce at the end. Pierce completely ignores Nate, who looks like he could have broken his fool neck he was up so high.

[Beezy]

Btw, fuck Paul Pierce. I like the Celtics, but he's dead to me.

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, Pierce is an arrogant SOB, just like Garnett. But hey, they back it up.

[Beezy]

Amare's 3 should've shut him up...

[Cormacaroni]

Pierce played great, really. He was very unlucky to get that foul called on him by Gallinari - he played perfect D there but Gallinari just did a great acting job. Glad he was able to get the clinching bucket for that reason. He also made a great fake and pass to get Ray that baseline 3 that broke the game open. Can't hate on Pierce just yet, my man. In a few years he'll be broken down and you can let rip, but not yet.

[CajoleJuice]

that 3

that gif though

[Beezy]

He also made a great fake and pass to get Ray that baseline 3 that broke the game open.

While Felton was on the floor at the other end of the court.

I hope they don't trade anyone just to get Carmelo right now. Chandler and Gallinari played hard last night. They'd be dumb as fuck to trade Fields.

Their bench sucks right now though...

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, well...Felton got to play against Rondo on a busted wheel most of the night. He can't complain. Felton also got to shoot 3 FTs on that prayer at the end of the 3rd (I think).

You have to be kidding about not trading for Melo, right? Those guys are playing well, and they had a great game tonight, but they are VERY replaceable. They're playing in the most stat-friendly system there is. As the Nuggets are about to find out, Melo is a special player and you always take those guys and figure it out later. Especially when you would have a window as long as they would have with Melo and Amare.

[Beezy]

Gallo is the most replaceable to me. I've liked Chandler most of this season. Fields... no. Keep him.

[Cormacaroni]

Let's imagine you've been watching Melo for the last 5 years or so though. Are you really saying you'd turn that guy down? He has his faults, but he brings one hell of a lot. He can get pretty much any shot, at any time...there's probably no-one else I'd rather have in the entire league than him with 10 seconds on the clock and a tied game. I get that those guys are good but in every trade you have to give up something. This win streak is nice but it's because of Amare going nuts more than it's because role players are suddenly being awesome. Don't get carried away.

I have no doubt that Donnie Walsh would trade everybody other than Amare for Melo, and he should. Sure, the depth chart will be shot to hell for a while but you'll have a great team if it goes through. There is no way the Knicks are contending this year anyway. Get Melo, stock up on quality role players in the off-season, and aim to knock off the Celtics and the Heat next season.

[Beezy]

I wouldn't turn down Melo, I just wish there was another way to get him.

[Stoney Mason]

I wouldn't turn down Melo, I just wish there was another way to get him.

There is. Wait until the off-season and just sign him. Of course Melo would be leaving money on the table at that point so it depends on how serious he is about wanting to play for the Knicks.

[Stoney Mason]

Another Sam Bowie.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5926989

[Cormacaroni]

That's rather unfair, Stoney - Yao has already had a great career, even though it is obviously very disappointing. He could have been a Hall of Famer. But he achieved a hell of a lot more than a lot of initial doubters expected (Barkley, for example).

If he'd been playing in the old days, with a shorter season, I'd imagine he'd have a lot of post-season success too. He just isn't built for 82 games.

[Cormacaroni]

I wouldn't turn down Melo, I just wish there was another way to get him.

There is. Wait until the off-season and just sign him. Of course Melo would be leaving money on the table at that point so it depends on how serious he is about wanting to play for the Knicks.

Yeah, like the Nuggets are going to let him walk. Of course, they might trade him elsewhere, and the Knicks could still pick him up. That's the optimum scenario for the Knicks, but it rests on Melo being prepared to basically throw away the rest of this season playing for the Nets, and not making the playoffs. I'm sure the Knicks and Melo would much rather get a deal done with the Knicks right now.

[Smooth Groove]

Yeah, for much of the last decade, Yao was the best center when he was playing.  Dude could have scored a lot more points if he wasn't so unselfish.  Even then he managed to be Top 5 in Per several times.  Also, he destroyed Dwight pretty much every time they met.    


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=howardw01

[Phoenix Dark]

"I haven't died," he said. "Right now I'm drinking a beer and eating fried chicken. What were you expecting, a funeral?"

At least he hasn't lost his sense of humor 

A more apt Bowie comparison would be Oden. Yao is still only 30, and can be effective - just not for 82 games. Oden is still young too, but he came into the league with a very limited offensive skill set and hasn't had any time to improve. Damn, can you imagine how scary Portland would be with a fully healthy Oden dominating the boards and paint on defense?

[Cormacaroni]

Not very scary at all, because they tied up all the money in Roy, who is just as bad as Oden. They just haven't admitted it to themselves yet. That guy has aged in dog years.

[Smooth Groove]

Yeah, it's sad 'cause Roy has always taken care of his body, aside from his unwise decision to play in the playoffs last year.  Roy is actually quite athletic but he's never relied on his hops or speed because he knows he's prone to getting hurt. 

[Cormacaroni]

He's in that zone of cascading injuries now - it's a downward spiral even if he manages to stay on court for years to come. Once there is a basic weakness in the system like not having a meniscus, everything else is over-pressured and will degrade prematurely. This has been on the cards since high school, hasn't it?

[Smooth Groove]

Nate Robinson is really fun to watch and has surprisingly become a legit NBA player.  He still makes some dumb decisions but there's probably more due to a lack of experience at running an offense.  He's never really been asked to do anything more than just provide instant offense for a couple of minutes. 

Robinson would be even better if he'd just drive more.  Even though he has a good pullup and despite his height, his speed and hangtime make his drives virtually unstoppable without fouling. 

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, but the problem is he's so fucking tiny (relatively, of course). If he gets clobbered mid-air by even a regular small forward let alone a center, he's in a world of hurt. It takes a special kind of masochism to consistently drive at that size, which is why AI was so amazing to me.

[Stoney Mason]

Heat at the Knicks in a few minutes.

[Beezy]

I have no idea what to expect from this game.

[Stoney Mason]

I do respect how Amare has embraced being the star in NY. I think a lot of people myself included kind of ignored his signing in New York.

[Stoney Mason]

Knicks are fun on offense but their defense is paper thin.

It doesn't help when Lebron is hitting shots like that though.

[Stoney Mason]

Good 2nd quarter for the knicks. The heat still don't really have a true offense. Their offense is just lebron and wade alternating taking over the game between quarters. That's good enough to beat most teams at this stage but I'm still disappointed, they haven't actually improved in this regard.

The knicks actually have a real offensive gameplan and concept in place at least compared to the heat.

[Beezy]

Knicks still in this

[Stoney Mason]

Well it was close for awhile...

[Stoney Mason]

Watching the heat is weird. It's like your watching them and disappointed that the offense is so basic and not impressed because the game is close. Then they just put on one of those nasty runs and in a couple of minutes just like that, the game is over.

The thing is I think they can get away with this all season and put up a really good record. I just have a feeling when it comes down to it against the very elite teams very deep in the playoffs, this strategy isn't going to work.

Maybe they will eventually gel into a real team or maybe this strategy will work and get them a title. It's weird though. I haven't really seen a team like this before in all my years of watching the NBA.   

Where I could see this working is when in the playoffs that dangerous stretch where you have to rest your superstar like the Lakers do with Kobe at the start of the 4th. Ideally the Heat wouldn't run into this problem pretty much ever. They should always have a top notch scorer on the court in the 4th.

[Beezy]

[Himu]

Yao Ming

[Beezy]

Amare pretty much got shutdown this game.

[Stoney Mason]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Stoney Mason]

Gotta give the magic some credit. Also has anyone had a sadder career ever than Vince Carter.

Edit: Any by credit I mean at least trying something different. That former incarnation of the team wasn't going to get the job done.

The Orlando Magic capped a blockbuster day of wheeling and dealing by trading one franchise cornerstone for another, sending Rashard Lewis to the Washington Wizards for Gilbert Arenas, team sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard on Saturday.

That trade followed news of a deal that sent Vince Carter to the Phoenix Suns in a multiplayer deal that returns Hedo Turkoglu to the Magic.


The Magic, losers of five of their last six games, also get Jason Richardson and Earl Clark from the Suns in exchange for Carter, Marcin Gortat, Mickael Pietrus, a 2011 first-round pick and cash considerations, sources said.

The Arenas-Lewis deal doesn't include other pieces, the sources told Broussard.

The Magic and Wizards had been discussing a deal involving Arenas off and on since last summer.

Arenas and the Wizards have been open to parting ways since Washington landed point guard John Wall with the No. 1 pick and thereby providing a new face for the franchise.


Arenas was suspended last season for the final 50 games by commissioner David Stern after a locker room incident involving gun play with former teammate Javaris Crittenton came to light last Dec. 23.

The Magic used lucrative pieces to close both deals, including Carter's expiring contract and Lewis' deal, which has 2½ years remaining on the original $118 million, six-year deal. It lines up with Arenas' backloaded contract -- which still has about $60 million left.


Magic president Otis Smith has been a close friend and mentor to the Arenas going back to their days together at Golden State, when Smith was in the front-office and Arenas was a young player. Smith has said in the past that Arenas' troubles, which, in addition to last year's 50-game suspension, included faking an injury to sit out a preseason game this year, are not a concern.

"The length of his contract and health probably have been more of my concerns," Smith told The Associated Press early Saturday. "With the length of his contract, you're always concerned about taking on more, of course. That's always been one of my concerns. I know a little bit more detail about Gilbert off the court and who he is as a person.

"He's probably similar to the guys we have in the locker room right now. I would say that sometimes good people make dumb decisions, and he's one of those guys."

Arenas, a three-time All Star, has had several knee problems that limited him to 47 games over the previous three seasons. But while playing alongside -- and often behind -- Wall this season, Arenas has showed flashes of his old self.

He has averaged 17.3 points and 5.6 assists per game this season, including a season-high 31 points in a loss against the Magic on Nov. 27. The Magic have made strong pushes to acquire Denver's Carmelo Anthony and New Orleans' Chris Paul, but with those talks showing little progress, they might be forced to make another move.

Orlando has lost five of its last six games, including a frustrating 1-3 West Coast trip, falling from first to fourth in the Eastern Conference. The Magic were set to host Philadelphia on Saturday night, and Washington was hosting Miami.

"I circled the West Coast trip on our schedule a long time ago," Smith said. "The West Coast trip, to me, was going to decide whether or not we're going to either fix our woes or continue down the same path. I don't think we've played particularly well leading up to the West Coast trip. So, we were on the West Coast trip and some of our woes continued, so you start to explore opportunities that are out there."

[Beezy]

Turkey glue! Hasn't he been playing worse since going to Toronto though?

And yes, please get rid of Lewis.

[Stoney Mason]

Turkey glue! Hasn't he been playing worse since going to Toronto though?

And yes, please get rid of Lewis.

He had a disastrous stint in Toronto and was traded to Phoenix. Orlando is the best situation for him at this point and stage of his career. He fits in with that team and his skillset works with that composition of a squad.

[Mandark]

Wrong thread.  Bye Gilbert!

[Cormacaroni]

The Magic look better to me, but it kind of hinges on whether a potential upgrade of the starters makes up for worse D and bench. My gut says this one doesn't move the needle more than a few wins either way.

Turkoglu should have been a good fit in Phoenix too, since Nash needed all the shooters and ball-handlers he can get to spell him. But he was atrocious. Once it's gone, it doesn't usually come back (this is why I'm so amazed at the season KG is having. And you can bet his offseason regimen is about 5x as hard as Hedo's).

[Stoney Mason]

Mike Miller is ready to come back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5939238


Heat play Mavs tonight although its not a nationally televised game.

[Stoney Mason]

Heat streak ends tonight. Mavs played them very well.

[Smooth Groove]

Is it just me or has Dwyane Wade gotten a lot more selfish this season?  It just seems like he's trying so hard to not let Lebron overshadow him.

[Stoney Mason]

Is it just me or has Dwyane Wade gotten a lot more selfish this season?  It just seems like he's trying so hard to not let Lebron overshadow him.

This is why they've been winning recently. Earlier it felt like he was trying to defer too much. Lebron also. Like nobody wanted to step on anybody's toes. The win streak coincided with each superstar sort of more aggressively taking over quarters.

It's still not ideal basketball. Ideally their games would complement each other more when they are both on the court but for most of the win streak its been Lebron or Wade alternating quarters taking over the game.

Wade in particular has been hot this month.

[Great Rumbler]

Dallas Mavs

[Stoney Mason]

Second time the Mavs have beat them so far. That's sort of my fear for the Heat.

That what works against 95% of the league isn't going to work against the handful of elite teams ala Boston, Dallas, San Antonio, LA.  We'll see about the Bulls and Orlando. 

[Phoenix Dark]

Somewhere, Malek is happy

[Mandark]

Is it just me or has Dwyane Wade gotten a lot more selfish this season?  It just seems like he's trying so hard to not let Lebron overshadow him.

*checks basketball-reference.com*

Actually, yeah.  His assist rate is way down.  Haven't watched too many Heat games, but I'd expect a lot of that is because he's no longer a de facto PG, rather than jealousy of LeBron.

[Smooth Groove]

Dwyane just seems to be taking a lot more bad shots and looking less for his teammates than he used to, which is a shame because his passing ability is just a tad below Lebron's. 

[Cormacaroni]

Is it just me or has Dwyane Wade gotten a lot more selfish this season?  It just seems like he's trying so hard to not let Lebron overshadow him.

*checks basketball-reference.com*

Actually, yeah.  His assist rate is way down.  Haven't watched too many Heat games, but I'd expect a lot of that is because he's no longer a de facto PG, rather than jealousy of LeBron.

LeBron is their point guard in all but name. When Wade has the ball, he's aiming to score (which is exactly what I think they need).

[Stoney Mason]

Dwyane just seems to be taking a lot more bad shots and looking less for his teammates than he used to, which is a shame because his passing ability is just a tad below Lebron's. 

He along with Lebron got off to a bad start which dragged down some of his stats. Some people were jumping the gun and saying injuries were maybe dragging him down.

For the Month of December though he has been fine. I think his assists numbers were inevitably going to go down with him not being the sole focus of the offense.

December numbers: 11 games.

Wade
pts: 26.6
fg%: 55%
3pt %:48%
rebs: 7.2
ast: 4.2   

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=1987

You can't do much better than that.

I think the first few months were the growing pains (and its still occurring although its getting better) of trying to merge all these players who generally get all these touches.

[Cormacaroni]

Good game by Dallas tonight, but I'm not convinced they could beat the Heat in a series or anything. I'd say the Heat win 4-2. The Heat had a horrible shooting night on the whole, and Terry just killed in the 4th. If you had to lose and break the streak, this was a relatively acceptable way of doing it.

I'm not sold on Wade being a special passer. He can get guys great shots by virtue of his drives (i.e. by drawing away defenders from them), but in terms of reading the D and anticipating cuts etc, he seems pretty average.

[Smooth Groove]

Seeing Dwyane and Lebron try to play together make me respect Pippen and Jordan even more.  Those two old timers were just as physically gifted, maybe even more but their games meshed so much better, not just with each other but with all their teammates. 

[Stoney Mason]

I think what Lebron and Wade are trying to do is much harder though. Pippen came into a situation where it was always clear who the alpha dog was. He was bred and drafted into that system. This is like taking two all time greats, both in their prime and then putting them together and expecting it to gel quickly. Even the Celtics Big three isn't really comparable as Ray, Pierce, and KG are three completely different kind of players with different needs.

While its a simplistic analysis and not 100% accurate, Wade and Lebron are the same kind of player who both demand the ball be in their hands a good part of the time for them to be effective. 

[Smooth Groove]

Also, they're both streaky shooters that need to take a bunch of shots to get hot. 

[Cormacaroni]

Also, they're both streaky shooters that need to take a bunch of shots to get hot. 

ugh what is this voodoo

[Smooth Groove]

It's true though.  For some reason, their FG% are better when they can just keep chucking it up. 

But hey, at least they're not as bad as Kobe.  It drives me nuts when Kobe goes for 7 for 23 and all the fans here in LA still praise him for his "killer instinct" because he just won't stop shooting.