The Legend Of Zelda Skyward Sword thread of cumbersome control 7.5 7.5 7.5 7.5

[Van Cruncheon]

controls are tolerable. it's the REST of the game that sucks.

[Oblivion]

What about the dungeons.

[Van Cruncheon]

weak. small, even if you count the pre-dungeon areas. very few of them.

[pilonv1]

So it would be better to play Wind Waker again than this if I wanted a Zelda fix?

[Owl-faced Wizard]

Play one of the Oracles games, they are boss.

[TakingBackSunday]

I still think this game is wonderful.  It's what I've wanted in a Zelda game in a long long time.  I love Twilight Princess, but as I was playing it I was thinking of the same criticisms that reviewers are directing towards Skyward Sword.  Only after two or three playthroughs of TP did I finally come to terms with what I enjoyed.

Skyward Sword engrosses me in a story and setting that I enjoy and tickles my fancy, controls that I'm comfortable with, and a gameplay design that makes more sense to me than standard overworld-town-dungeon that's found in past Zelda games.  To me, the entire game feels like 6 huge dungeons with 6 more focused dungeons at the center of each area.

I love the artstyle, the controls, the audio design, and the gameplay.  It's still easy, but I find myself much more engrossed in this game than I have in the last four zelda games.

[TakingBackSunday]

usually for most people on this forum, that would be a clear cut message that the game sucks

:p

[Van Cruncheon]

it comes down to how much you're in love with the wannabe ghibli zelda aesthetic. me, i hate the manufactured quirkiness, and it DEFINITELY doesn't compensate for the disjointed mechanics, the endless handholding, and sketchy core content. i despise every kooky animu character and wish they'd get the FUCK out of my zelda puzzle dungeon game.

[Oblivion]

But some reviewers say it's the closest Zelda we've had to Majora's Mask.

[Bebpo]

So magus, I've been doing the post dungeon #3 stuff and I love it.  Lots of fun things to do while progressing the plot forward.  In fact, I've come to the realization that Skyward Sword is not about the dungeons.  So far all the pre-dungeon stuff, and Skyloft stuff, and the other stuff I'm doing when not in a dungeon has been better than the 3 main dungeons I've done.  The game is more of an adventure game this time around and you're always moving forward in the trip.  Then you get to dungeons and it's just the same old tried-and-true zelda dungeon design that's been going on so long it's kind of the least inspired, but at least solid, part of the game.

I think the aesthetic for the game is real nice.  Not as good as Wind Waker, but so much better than TP.  Good music too. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Loving the harp stuff

[close]

[Cerveza mas fina]

Gametrailer says the game world feels really empty, like even the big towns have only few people.

True/false?

[cool breeze]

I like this game a lot even with all the problems.  It really has a lot of problems.  At times it feels like a parody of Zelda because of how Ayanami Rei is SUPER Navi.  There are times when I'm walking into an area, can already see what I need to do, and think "please, Ayanami Rei, don't do your whole shit shtick.  let me just play the game."  And then "ANALYSIS SHOWS THERE IS A 95% CHANCE DO THIS AND HOLD MY HAND BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH."  You don't even get a "hey, listen".

It's like the antithesis to Dark Souls.  That game is about learning through experience.  This game discourages you from learning because Ayanami Rei keeps interrupting you.  It's not even, "hey, listen"

Other things too, like how that annoying 'low health' beep now signals when you're at 3 hearts.  It's a small change, but when I got down to 3 hearts become the bomb controls are so fucked that Link can't decide to roll or toss and blows himself up instead, yeah, I don't need constant beeping to tell me my health.  Maybe if it was one heart, like when it matters.  But three hearts? you used to start these games with three hearts. 

and I think playing too much Wii has hurt my eyes.  Coming back to my PC felt like putting on glasses.

and to be clear, I played it a lot because I really like it.   This is just bitching just 'cause.  Also, Avalanche should make Just Cause 3 in Pandora from Avatar.  Jumping off flying islands onto birds and shit like that.

also, the 'gold' wii remote plus is pretty nice because it's all matte.

[Bebpo]

Bomb controls really are the worst.  How did they even think that was a good idea after testing.

[magus]

So magus, I've been doing the post dungeon #3 stuff and I love it.  Lots of fun things to do while progressing the plot forward.  In fact, I've come to the realization that Skyward Sword is not about the dungeons.  So far all the pre-dungeon stuff, and Skyloft stuff, and the other stuff I'm doing when not in a dungeon has been better than the 3 main dungeons I've done.  The game is more of an adventure game this time around and you're always moving forward in the trip.  Then you get to dungeons and it's just the same old tried-and-true zelda dungeon design that's been going on so long it's kind of the least inspired, but at least solid, part of the game.

I think the aesthetic for the game is real nice.  Not as good as Wind Waker, but so much better than TP.  Good music too. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Loving the harp stuff

[close]

bebpo are you talking about the sidequest or what you need to do to move the plot forward? because i can't see anyone liking...

spoiler (click to show/hide)

backtracking to volcano zone
backtracking to forest zone
do one of those horrible trial
5 minute of new content
return to dungeon 1 because we promised 50 hours of game

[close]

Bomb controls really are the worst.  How did they even think that was a good idea after testing.

eeehhh i never had a problem with bombs
now stabbing? that thing is annoying and broken yes

[naff]

Yeah I found bomb control fine. And yes, stabbing is a bitch, other waggle/motion control gestures work as directed for me. I've only put in a little over 4 hours though, so I've barely gone past the opening areas. I have had it for a while now, but everytime I sit down to play a game Skyrim comes calling.

[Owl-faced Wizard]

it comes down to how much you're in love with the wannabe ghibli zelda aesthetic. me, i hate the manufactured quirkiness, and it DEFINITELY doesn't compensate for the disjointed mechanics, the endless handholding, and sketchy core content. i despise every kooky animu character and wish they'd get the FUCK out of my zelda puzzle dungeon game.

I know what you mean re: manufactured quirkiness - gives me a One Piece vibe.  Dragonball Z with pirates 

[Van Cruncheon]

it comes down to how much you're in love with the wannabe ghibli zelda aesthetic. me, i hate the manufactured quirkiness, and it DEFINITELY doesn't compensate for the disjointed mechanics, the endless handholding, and sketchy core content. i despise every kooky animu character and wish they'd get the FUCK out of my zelda puzzle dungeon game.

I know what you mean re: manufactured quirkiness - gives me a One Piece vibe.  Dragonball Z with pirates 

exactly. fuck one piece.

[Himu]

I uh

I feel betrayed by that post

[Van Cruncheon]

countertroll measures, brah. stay out of the flak zone

[TakingBackSunday]

I didn't even know it was possible to be annoyed by this game's style/quirkiness.  I guess I'm more uguu~ than I thought

[Barry Egan]

it comes down to how much you're in love with the wannabe ghibli zelda aesthetic.

The AV Club review does a lot to confirm this theory:

The only blight—and it’s so significant that it threatens to derail the game—comes in the form of the Wii MotionPlus control scheme. Carving up the air with a Wii remote supposedly results in tense, Errol Flynn-like sword battles against the game’s skilled opponents. Yet these moments, which are the foundation on which the entire game is built, devolve into shameful exercises in arm-flailing. How good is Skyward Sword? Good enough to overcome this wholly unnecessary handicap.

No, Skyward Sword isn’t better than Ocarina Of Time. But of all the Zeldas to be released over the last 13 years, it comes closest. The game’s greatest achievement is that it never stops aspiring to be more than it is. It never stops reaching for emotional moments, going full-tilt for players’ hearts. Before Skyward Sword’s final battle, Zelda turns to Link and says “You’ve come so far.” Those four words may not sound like much out of context, but within the game, they’re enough to make even the most jaded gamers reach for the Kleenex.

He gave it an A.
 

[Don Flamenco]

ugh.  reminds me of some post i read on gaf yesterday....something to the effect of "you'll love this game if you're in for a cinematic experience and a deep story."   guess what bitch?  you're not describing a game anymore, you're describing a movie. 

[Bebpo]

So magus, I've been doing the post dungeon #3 stuff and I love it.  Lots of fun things to do while progressing the plot forward.  In fact, I've come to the realization that Skyward Sword is not about the dungeons.  So far all the pre-dungeon stuff, and Skyloft stuff, and the other stuff I'm doing when not in a dungeon has been better than the 3 main dungeons I've done.  The game is more of an adventure game this time around and you're always moving forward in the trip.  Then you get to dungeons and it's just the same old tried-and-true zelda dungeon design that's been going on so long it's kind of the least inspired, but at least solid, part of the game.

I think the aesthetic for the game is real nice.  Not as good as Wind Waker, but so much better than TP.  Good music too. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Loving the harp stuff

[close]

bebpo are you talking about the sidequest or what you need to do to move the plot forward? because i can't see anyone liking...

spoiler (click to show/hide)

backtracking to volcano zone
backtracking to forest zone
do one of those horrible trial
5 minute of new content
return to dungeon 1 because we promised 50 hours of game

[close]

I'm still in the middle of doing all that, but so far it's been fun, yeah.  Having warp points everywhere makes the backtracking far more tolerable than most recent Zelda games.  That + shortcuts + dash.  And when you do backtrack, you're doing something new in the old location so it still feels fun and plot advancing.

I dunno, I think the game might work better when you're not marathoning it in long sessions.  When you're playing an hour or so a day, and always making some sort of advancement, it's fun!  Unlike Trails of the Sky FC where I can play 3 hours and feel like nothing's happened.

[demi]

"you've come so far" measures to "you've been to the same 3 places like 20 fucking times, you getting bored yet?"

[Howard Alan Treesong]

"But in the end, Link, it doesn't even matter"

[Robo]

it comes down to how much you're in love with the wannabe ghibli zelda aesthetic.

The AV Club review does a lot to confirm this theory:

The only blight—and it’s so significant that it threatens to derail the game—comes in the form of the Wii MotionPlus control scheme. Carving up the air with a Wii remote supposedly results in tense, Errol Flynn-like sword battles against the game’s skilled opponents. Yet these moments, which are the foundation on which the entire game is built, devolve into shameful exercises in arm-flailing. How good is Skyward Sword? Good enough to overcome this wholly unnecessary handicap.

No, Skyward Sword isn’t better than Ocarina Of Time. But of all the Zeldas to be released over the last 13 years, it comes closest. The game’s greatest achievement is that it never stops aspiring to be more than it is. It never stops reaching for emotional moments, going full-tilt for players’ hearts. Before Skyward Sword’s final battle, Zelda turns to Link and says “You’ve come so far.” Those four words may not sound like much out of context, but within the game, they’re enough to make even the most jaded gamers reach for the Kleenex.

He gave it an A.
 

Also,

Skyward Sword also happens to be genuinely funny. Before a battle, a chatty robot advises Link, “Tighten up whatever it is you humans have instead of bolts.” And it’s crowded with so many carefully observed human moments—the insecurities of the island bully, the faded dreams of the pot-bellied swordsman—that it makes other games seem icy and lifeless by comparison. During an era where game-makers busily tout their impressive technology (Battlefield 3’s Frostbite 2 engine), or extensive spoken dialogue (The Old Republic), Nintendo wisely lets the technology disappear into the background, allowing the game’s soul to surface.

This guy. 

[Van Cruncheon]

[Howard Alan Treesong]

that review makes me throw up in my mouth a little

[Barry Egan]

the game is fundamentally broken, but as a Nintendo fan you will identify so intimately with the depressed pot bellied swordsman NPC that you won't care.  A. 

[demi]

He was my favorite character. The jiggle physics were so surreal. Like I was actually masturbating.

[pilonv1]

"This game has characters so shallow even a wingless fly couldn't drown. But compared to other games that don't let me feel like I'm 8 years old again, it has soul. A"

[magus]

i was discussing with someone the edge review again and they made me notice this passage

When later acts see entire regions double back on themselves – either reinvented as terrifying stealth scrambles or disrupted by ill-tempered deities – you wonder if Nintendo has found the secret to infinite level design.

and to think edge is perceived as one of the most prestigious gaming journalist outlet

meanwhile the gamespot review is seen as the most horrible incorrect thing because they said aiming is controlled trough IR while this is not true (it's controlled by the motion+) the motion+ is calibrated at the start trough the IR making the mistake easy to make

double

[EmCeeGrammar]

I got to the entrance of the first dungeon.  Only confirms what bitter old men some of you are.  Best combat and "overworld" and music I've played in a Zelda yet.  And the whimsy is off the charts  

[Bebpo]

i was discussing with someone the edge review again and they made me notice this passage

When later acts see entire regions double back on themselves – either reinvented as terrifying stealth scrambles or disrupted by ill-tempered deities – you wonder if Nintendo has found the secret to infinite level design.

and to think edge is perceived as one of the most prestigious gaming journalist outlet

meanwhile the gamespot review is seen as the most horrible incorrect thing because they said aiming is controlled trough IR while this is not true (it's controlled by the motion+) the motion+ is calibrated at the start trough the IR making the mistake easy to make

double

Wait, the game is going to have stealth parts?

Nooooooooooooooooo.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Oh and the stamina bar allows sooooo much fluid traversal.  Its a parkour fueled dream for a franchise that has been set in trudge mode for decades.

[magus]

i was discussing with someone the edge review again and they made me notice this passage

When later acts see entire regions double back on themselves – either reinvented as terrifying stealth scrambles or disrupted by ill-tempered deities – you wonder if Nintendo has found the secret to infinite level design.

and to think edge is perceived as one of the most prestigious gaming journalist outlet

meanwhile the gamespot review is seen as the most horrible incorrect thing because they said aiming is controlled trough IR while this is not true (it's controlled by the motion+) the motion+ is calibrated at the start trough the IR making the mistake easy to make

double

Wait, the game is going to have stealth parts?

Nooooooooooooooooo.

ahahahahahahah
you are going to get the first one pretty soon but don't worry bebpo,if you get found it's pretty easy to evade the guards before they touch you,still it's pretty annoying because it's stealth + another bunch of reason you'll see when you get to it

[Himu]

wow a new zelda is out and no one gives a shit about it except like 3 people

[EmCeeGrammar]

A new zelda is out and a few people on a gaf splinter forum mostly comprised of hypocritical elitist nerdlingers don't care.  Yes.  Nothing wow.

Lets wait for npd.

[Himu]

It's merely an observation, especially compared to TP's release when seemingly the majority of the forum was playing that game at release.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Ironically not me.  I don't blame anyone for dumping zelda after TP. 

[Bebpo]

wow a new zelda is out and no one gives a shit about it except like 3 people

Until you make a lttp thread and declare how it's a return to the glorious days of Nintendo

[TakingBackSunday]

AVclub's "games" department is one of the most embarrassing divisions of the onion.  They need to just axe it completely.

[Himu]

wow a new zelda is out and no one gives a shit about it except like 3 people

Until you make a lttp thread and declare how it's a return to the glorious days of Nintendo

nintendo hasn't been "glorious" for almost 20 years.

[Robo]

AVclub's "games" department is one of the most embarrassing divisions of the onion.  They need to just axe it completely.

Is it worth pointing out that that is the same guy that reviewed Uncharted 3? 

[Tasty]

But some reviewers say it's the closest Zelda we've had to Majora's Mask.

I can see why they'd say that. Even though it's not going off the deep end like MM, SS is still trying to change up the overall progression a bit, and also focuses on the story, which MM did as well.

If anything, this game gives me hope for the next Zelda. Now that the status quo of town->dungeon->town has been disrupted (definitively), the next game should be able to take it even farther. Plus, Zelda in true HD.

Honestly though, I wouldn't mind if the series went to sleep for a while. It needs someone with a LOT of new ideas to come in and take those and combine them with the series' 20 year history, like Koizumi did for SMG. I get the feeling Aonuma always has one or two good ideas of Zelda games, but they can't sustain it (which is why most of SS's new ideas came from newer staff members on the ST team, which also explains why the game is so schizo and over the map -- it was a bunch of people's random ideas thrown together, not a single visionary's strong leadership.) And yeah, I would call Koizumi a visionary.

[Phoenix Dark]

that review makes me throw up in my mouth a little

Is that what humans do when they overload?
   \
     \
   

[Himu]

wow a new zelda is out and no one gives a shit about it except like 3 people

Until you make a lttp thread and declare how it's a return to the glorious days of Nintendo

nintendo hasn't been "glorious" for almost 20 years.

Mario Galaxy was the best thing Nintendo released since what, the snes?

right, but it's an exception, not a "return to glory"

[Tasty]

wow a new zelda is out and no one gives a shit about it except like 3 people

Until you make a lttp thread and declare how it's a return to the glorious days of Nintendo

nintendo hasn't been "glorious" for almost 20 years.

Mario Galaxy was the best thing Nintendo released since what, the snes?

right, but it's an exception, not a "return to glory"

If you didn't like Nintendo's output on the Wii then I'm almost tempted to say you've never liked Nintendo at all.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I still remember the exact moment I gave up on Nintendo

it's when I bought Punch-Out and the boxer patterns were exactly the same as a 22-year-old NES game

fuck the Wii

[Himu]

mario galaxy is my favorite game this generation. outside of that and TP I definitely can't say I've liked Nintendo's output on the wii OR the ds.

[Trent Dole]

wow a new zelda is out and no one gives a shit about it except like 3 people

Until you make a lttp thread and declare how it's a return to the glorious days of Nintendo

nintendo hasn't been "glorious" for almost 20 years.

Mario Galaxy was the best thing Nintendo released since what, the snes?

right, but it's an exception, not a "return to glory"

If you didn't like Nintendo's output on the Wii then I'm almost tempted to say you've never liked Nintendo at all.

[Himu]

I forgot about those ds games. Doh. You make a point.

[Bebpo]

Both Mario Galaxies were good, TP was good, Prime 3 was a lot of fun, Excitetruck was kind of fun, Wario Ware was fun.  Skyward Sword so far is fun.

They've definitely had some misses and a whole lot of nothing on the Wii, but they've also had some solid games as well.  I think it's almoooost comparable to their 1st party DS output; DS has a lot of 1st party misses as well.  Then again GC was pretty hit and miss, as was N64, as was GBA, so it's really nothing new and surprising that Nintendo hasn't been on their A game since SNES/GB.

[Bebpo]

The stealth stuff isn't bad in design, but like everything else in the game it's built solely to annoy you with the whole "1 hit and you have to start all over".  Zelda game design, at least in the Aounoma ones is basically, "You just made it through a 3 min platforming section.  Here's a narrow bridge and right when you jump over a gap in the middle of it we're going to time the enemy so they shoot a rock and knock you back down to the bottom of the platforming section so you can do it all again".  I see it over and over again in his games.  He makes the easiest Zelda games but is always trying to torment and punish the players.  Doesn't make much sense and is why Zelda lately doesn't tend to be as satisfying as the Mario games.

[Bebpo]

Don't get me started on the drawing mini-game though.  Jeez, how many times do I have to draw a circle until it registers it as something close to the circle it wants your drawing to be.

It's hilariously ironic how by using the NEW AND IMPROVED MOTION+ WITH MORE ACCURACY, the controls end up being far less accurate than IR pointer controls when they decide to throw in pointer mini-games.

[cool breeze]

I wish there was a gamecube version of this game :'(

It's really good once you get past the bad camera, bad controls, bad dumbification.  last one won't get fixed with a proper controller, but still.

also, I kinda realize why the Playstation Move has the stupid ball now.  The Wii remote plus loses position frequently and I have to recalibrate it.  At one point I needed to curve a bomb, but twisting the controller did nothing.  It got screwed up to think moving up and down were left and right, which wouldn't be a problem if up and down weren't already roll/nothing/throw.

bomb controls are seriously baffling.  A is always place, but when you hold the controller center, the only action is to place it.  When holding it up, you waggle to throw; down, waggle to roll.  Why not up/center/down + A instead of waggle like No More Heroes? why not eliminate the center useless part and only have up/throw an down/roll, because A is always drop?

I was actually kind of excited for the motion controls because Wii Sports Resort controlled well, and Red Steel 2 controlled well, but this...doesn't control well.  Even the aiming feels worse than twilight princess because for some reason they've decide to use the motion plus gyro+accel aiming instead of the pointer.  But I don't know if that's really the problem because Playstation Move pointing feels like normal Wii pointing and it's technically the same method (minus the ball).  There's just a lot of weird decisions like that with no real benefit.  Almost all the motion controls feel forced and inferior to the alternatives.  I wouldn't mind so much if this was a bad game, but it's not and I like it a lot. 

edit:

on how dumb the game treats you, it literally reintroduces items if you load a game 

"you've played for 10+ hours, have 36 of this item, but you might have forgotten! here's a 20 second scene for each item and bug you find! we even show where it sits in your inventory!"

Ayanamei Rei 

[Cerveza mas fina]

It's just crazy that it's been a decade or more since Nintendo made cutting edge games.

[Bebpo]

I wouldn't call myself a diehard fan or anything, but I usually look forward to taking each Zelda game for a play-through, but this time?  I kind of wish I hadn't already bought it.  I have more than enough 99% great stuff to play right now without blowing cash on a 7.5.

Oh come off it Oscar, you like Zelda, you put phantom hourglass in your list of "good" DS games and at its worst Skyward Sword is always 10x better than that title.  Do you not notice how despite everyone complaining about stuff, they always end their post with "I'm really enjoying it"?  The game is flawed for sure, but it's one of those games with tons of flaws but the overall substance rises above them.  A bunch of stuff in the game pisses me off but if I had to rate it where I am 14 hours in and about 50% through, I'd give it a 9/10 at this point on the "we don't use 1-5 scale" of modern game reviewers.  It's a really great game and probably my favorite Zelda since MM.

The game is a lot like Okami.  If you objectively looked at Okami with the padding, the handholding, the REUSED BOSSES, it's probably a 5/10; yet it's not a 5/10 because the overall experience is a great one despite it's objective flaws.  SS is like Zelda ape-ing Okami which ape-d Zelda. 

And Aeana, while being an knowledgeable and well-written poster, has shown time and time again that she has pretty iffy tastes.  If something is not just to her liking, she'll blow off a good game like Xenoblade, whereas she'll rave over lots of C-tier titles like the RE Wii rail shooters.  I wouldn't really go by her opinion as the definitive take on Zelda.

[TakingBackSunday]

I'm with Bebpo..  Best Zelda game since MM.

[demi]

shut up, brandnew.