The Legend Of Zelda Skyward Sword thread of cumbersome control 7.5 7.5 7.5 7.5

[TakingBackSunday]

shut up, brandnew.

no u

[magus]

you only repeat 1 single dungeon oscar

but they do make you traverse the same portion of the pre-dungeon area over and over and over

the stealth section aren't a lot either and if you get discovered,you don't get sent back to the beginning unless they catch you first but evading them is not that hard

[demi]

I hope there are a lot of islands to explore and find secrets in like Wind Waker.

lol

[Bebpo]

I didn't realize you could move vertically upwards with the bird by chugging the wiimote up over and over until many hours in.  Makes flying MUCH BETTER, since before then climbing high was a pain in the ass.

[Van Cruncheon]

~50% complete and not goin' back. how can anyone assert this game is *good*

[Positive Touch]

I've never been able to replay Ocarina, I dislike Majora's Mask and Windwaker quite a bit.  In fact, I think Phantom Hourglass is "10x better" than both of those.

what the hell son

I think Phantom Hourglass is "10x better" than both of those.

[...]

What is giving me pause here is that [SS] seems to be short on dungeons , it makes you repeat those dungeons , it has stealth

WHAT THE HELL SON


who knew that the one person that would bring down oscar was... himself?

[EmCeeGrammar]

Phantom Hourglass was a fun game.  It was like Wind Waker but fixed up so you weren't doing nothing 50 percent of the time.  I have to wonder if people bitching about the recurring temple didn't take advantage of the shortcuts.

[Bebpo]

PH was bad, but I endured it and finished it for the good qualities underneath the cheap cheap cheap cheap product.

Spirit Tracks was so bad I had to stop and question myself as to why I continued playing solely for completion when every 5 minutes of train traveling and then backtracking train traveling was taking time from my life.  Which is why I gave up and bailed halfway and it's the only Zelda I've never finished.  The dungeons were fine, but the train and the heavy backtracking USING THE TRAIN drove me nuts.  I am so fucking glad SS has a metric ton of warp points everywhere.  It's almost like a modern rpg with quick travel! 

It's interesting, when rpgs have quick travel I really don't mind quests that involve a lot of back/forth.  For instance Fallout NV.  But rpgs that don't have quick travel and make you run back and forth across towns/fields for every quest really bug me and make me hate doing the traveling, see Trails of the Sky and some of The Witcher 1.  Quick travel really makes rpgs more enjoyable.  Every game should have it.

[EmCeeGrammar]

People bitching about Fi are really making a mountain out of a molehill.  I ignore her beeps 99 percent of the time and she hardly ever intrudes.  The only times she comes out is introducing new areas, notifying me of newly acquired dowsing targets or the occassional inconsequential thing.  Its very infrequent and not worth raising a shitstorm over unless one doesn't have the discipline to not summon her.

I also think people whining about the controls aren't sitting up.  I have problems if I try to play reclined, otherwise only actions requiring pointing the wiimote down have been less than ideal.  Oh, wait, switching between freelook and dowsing has a bothersome calibration effect.  That is a knock.

[TakingBackSunday]

Stealth games are always shitty.  Even in Batman, the stealth segments are annoying, and those games are amazing.

[Van Cruncheon]

wasn't a healthy chunk of phantom hourglass stealth puzzles?

[TakingBackSunday]

exactly, which is why it's terrible

[EmCeeGrammar]

Stealth is awesome, but not the trial and error Splinter Cell bullshit. 

I got to what amounts to a sliding tile puzzle and actually went back to consult the Sheikah Stone Super Guide.  I HATE slide tile esque puzzles. Thank god it had a clip for it.  The super guide is really tactful.  Shows you just enough without walking you through the whole process.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I'm not sure how I felt about the propeller quest yet.  It felt like it was introducing the concept of the helper robot moreso than anything, but if quests persist in this way I'm not gonna pretend it wasn't a dubious design choice.  Its not like I treaded new ground either.

edit:  Like, the quest was predicated on the assumption I picked up a certain loot and knew a certain guy's name too.  I DID meet both those requirements but both of those things were certainly missable.

[recursivelyenumerable]

The stealth in Phantom Hourglass was interesting, brilliant actually, because it was integrated with the other Zelda mechanics (item use, dungeon exploration, etc.) - that's why it was my favorite part of the game (the only part I really liked, in fact). Something like the stealth section in Ocarina of Time is lame because it has nothing to do with the rest of the game.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Just did my first Silent Realm and it was awesome.  Its kinda like Pacman in the third dimension meets Silent Hill.  In other news, precision movement underwater is kinda wank.  I'm not looking forward to tadtones because although the controls are good enough for traversal, trying to grab small things is a pain.  Really, motion controls work great for the items but not so much for anytime you are directing your avatar (skydiving/bird/swimming).  Feels... superflous?

[Oblivion]

Okay, finally started the game. Right off the bat, this is THE jaggiest non-shovelware game I've ever seen on the Wii. You would think the art style would hide it, but it doesn't seem to AT ALL. To make matters worse, I'm playing on fucking SDTV!

WTF?

[bachikarn]

yeah the jaggies are pretty terrible. i want to try it on dolphin but I don't think it is worth it to try and get it to work just for this game.

[Oblivion]

Also, motion controlled loftwings and kikwis are pretty much the worst things ever.

[Robo]

Kikwis look like the nutsack judge in The Wall movie.

[Bebpo]

I didn't like the mole guys either.  Kiwiks at least you can laugh at because they are so dumb.  The robots are cool though.

[Oblivion]

When I was playing the first 10 minutes of the game, I thought it was going pretty well. By the time I got to the first temple, I started wondering whether that lead up was better or worse than TP's.

The fact that one even has to question which game had the better introductory first hours is NOT a good sign.


And I feel the need to re-state how fucking awful motion controlled flying is.

[cool breeze]

This game is really super great, but man oh man, 20-some hours in and the motion controls are still fucking awful.  I had a moment when it introduced to the swim controls and I felt like the game joking.  Analog stick to swim, except when you press A to dive under, and then tilt to swim and waggle nunchuck to spin, and the analog stick does nothing.  98% of the controls don't need motion.  I can understand the reason for sword combat and it's pretty fun; the net too.  Aiming is motion instead of IR (why  ).  Everything else could be done better with simple intuitive analog controls.

and I liked the Twilight Princess Wii controls  :'(

 

[Barry Egan]

I feel obligated to press on, but I'm really struggling with the controls as well.  They are just no fun and makes what seems like a decent game more trouble than it's worth. 

[Cerveza mas fina]

Guys @ Bombcast said controls are tight and swordplay is cool.

[TakingBackSunday]

If you're waggling against Stalfos and the Uber Stalfos, I need to learn how to waggle like you.  You can only really waggle against the bokoblins

[demi]

Dont waggle, just do the spin attack.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Harp is stupid.  Always sounds like a mess.  Fi's singing is the worst animated thing in the game.  Also returning to the isle of songs just to turn around and go where you really need to get to is bad design.  Should just teach you the song the moment the sacred flame is acquired.  Still enjoying the game in spite of that.  I really like exploring the sky but then again I accept that its only a 1/4th of what the overworld is in the game.

[Bebpo]

Just got to the 4th dungeon (hadn't played for a few days).  I don't mind the swimming controls too much, but I hate how if you are against a wall that you need to spin jump to (Aka, all the time), you have to swim away from the wall to get some room, then turn around and THEN approach it and do the spin jump.  Where is my vertical spin jump to just get me some extra height to grab a ledge!

[Van Cruncheon]

i kinda liked fi's weird voice sample thing :'(

[magus]

i didn't pin you as someone that likes autotune

[EmCeeGrammar]

i kinda liked fi's weird voice sample thing :'(

No that's not what I'm talking about.  Whenever she sings, she starts seizing up and spazzing out like something done in Gary's mod.  Considering how well the rest of the game animates (i.e. item shopkeeper) it sticks out badly. 

I kinda hope the

spoiler (click to show/hide)

clawshot

[close]

gets more... cerebral?  So far its usage seems elementary although the few timing elements were appreciated.

[EmCeeGrammar]

On the one hand there's a certain segment you go to simply because a character is mistaken where his thing is. On the other hand

spoiler (click to show/hide)

INTERACTIVE MINE CART ROLLERCOASTER

[close]

  It was weird fighting the same boss again, they could've at least give him some new attack patterns. 

This new dungeon (5th) is omg though, the central mechanic must've took some masterful programming to accomplish.

[Oblivion]

Guys @ Bombcast said controls are tight and swordplay is cool.

The sword waggling's fine, the beetle's (surprisingly) decent, but the bird controls are fucking HORRIBLE, as are the tightrope walking sections (dear god, wtf nintendo)

[EmCeeGrammar]

Bird's fine once you figure out flapping is how you gain altitude.  On the tightrope, hold the wiimote VERTICALLY and tilt it either left or right.  You can also hold the a button to walk faster.

[magus]

for the tightrope i keep tilting left and right in a bobbing motion and it works perfectly

This new dungeon (5th) is omg though, the central mechanic must've took some masterful programming to accomplish.

eh okami pulled the same trick as well,it's just more noticeable since desert -> grass is a bigger change,and yes dungeon 5th is the best part,you only go downward after that

[EmCeeGrammar]

Yeah Okami blows.  I bet Prole would still assert it one of the better 3d zeldas.

And I've liked all the dungeons so far, I'm not asking for rubix cube complexity from a zelda game.  The overworld in itself is chockful of clever design and traversal puzzles.

There are certainly problems here and there, so I wouldn't be so forgiving as to give it a PERFECT score.  Alot of item stuff would be better with the pointer.  All avatar movement would be better with analog and more consistent with how you control Link throughout the game.  As it is certain simple stuff needs tutorials because its tied to unnecessary motion. There's some excursions that do nothing but delay where you really need to go.

But but but great combat and puzzles and exploration and meaningful rewards and and and and SENSATIONS.

[magus]

Okami was still a mediocre game though, the combat was wretched on that one.

okami suffers from all the maladies of this game and feature all the same qualities,let's not kid ourselves

[Himu]

that is the biggest endorsement i've ever seen for this game

gj wrath

now i want to play.

"at least it won't be worse than okami"

[Bebpo]

I'm going to murder all you guys hating on Okami

murder

Magus is right, SS = Okami.  I love Okami, I really like SS.

[Himu]

hey go get these three dogs for me

now go get these 8 dogs throughout the world map for me

let's top it off by getting even more dogs for me

okay, now you can continue the game.

padding defined.

[demi]

Okami is so bad, lol.

[Himu]

We like Sega arcade stuff.

We like Ghost Trick.

We agree more than we disagree, I think. People tend to remember what they disagree on more than not.

[Oblivion]

One complaint that I don't get, I have to say, is about the bird statues. They show up like every 10 steps! They're far, far more plentiful than the owl statues in MM, that's for damn sure.

[Bebpo]

hey go get these three dogs for me

now go get these 8 dogs throughout the world map for me

let's top it off by getting even more dogs for me

okay, now you can continue the game.

padding defined.

Okami is a long game.  It runs on a slower pace.  It's consistently good.

Kamiya has only made great games.

[magus]

hey go get these three dogs for me

now go get these 8 dogs throughout the world map for me

let's top it off by getting even more dogs for me

okay, now you can continue the game.

padding defined.

the first thing you do to reach dungeon 1 in zelda is finding 3 little bird that look like a nutsack

and then you have to find 5 piece of keys before entering dungeon 2

and 3 generators before being able to enter dungeon 3 (at least these are easy to spot)

and before getting to dungeon 4 you have to return to one place where you found a piece of key in the volcano,then you have to return to the forest and do the trial! the trial consist of finding the tears of light on a previous zone that you already explored (edge called this "THE SECRET TO INFINITE LEVEL DESIGN!") while being under a time limit (at least a pretty generous time limit) then after that they make you finish dungeon 1 again because... i'll be damned if i know why

you feel like playing skyward sword yet himu?

Okami was still a mediocre game though, the combat was wretched on that one.

okami had lot of monsters to throw at you,here it's bokoblin this and bokoblin that,when the game has to protect a semi important item,they throw you a lizard or a skeleton... meh!

[Bebpo]

You're dissing the combat in a Kamiya game.  Combat by the guy who designed Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, and Viewtiful Joe.

The only problem with the combat in Okami is it was too easy.  But the combat engine was really solid as expected of Kamiya.  Wrath, did you play it on the Wii or PS2?

[Himu]

You're dissing the combat in a Kamiya game.  Combat by the guy who designed Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, and Viewtiful Joe.

The only problem with the combat in Okami is it was too easy.  But the combat engine was really solid as expected of Kamiya.  Wrath, did you play it on the Wii or PS2?

Uhhh Okami is nothing like DMC or Bayo or VJ. Why are even comparing them?

[Owl-faced Wizard]

About 4 and a half hours in.   Not loving it but it's not bothering me either.

[cool breeze]

mild spoiler-ish part

so there's this one (actually pretty neat) sequence where you start out with only two hearts and can only find two more in the next 10 minutes.  well, the 'beeping' sound and Link flashing red kicks in automatically starting at 3 hearts and scales up with you total number of hearts.  for that entire sequence, unless you've never picked up a heart from the bosses or heart pieces, it won't stop beeping.

maybe it was designed that way, like a chinese water torture mechanic.   because I was running around with four hearts, desperately looking for more to stop the beeping.

[TakingBackSunday]

you can get hearts really easily in that sequence by digging around

[magus]

you sure about that?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

there is a 4th silent realm

[close]

[magus]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

They're OK I guess, but their inclusion is unnecessary and it isn't even challenging at all. Fuck that shit.

the last one is super annoying,i had to do it 3 times because of one guarded spot... but anyway,you are almost at the end of the game

[cool breeze]

I thought this game is mostly awesome.  Not gonna rank anything (except every other Zelda >>>> DS dregs).  GOTY for me, probably (I say as someone who hasn't played Skyrim or Batman).  But I really liked it, except the controls and the babying everything.

Seriously if the controls were fixed and the game had faster text, it would make a huge difference.  And some parts need to be taken further, like the really (really) basic crafting system.  The other issues are spoiler-y:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

stamina got really annoying after awhile.  I kept wishing there would be a way to upgrade it, and yet there was no reason to upgrade it.  The best you can do are the potions that last three minutes.  I get why it needed to be limited for dungeon purposes, but after that point you unlocked the potion and it shouldn't have mattered.

bird gets like one upgrade.  I kept thinking I'd be able to fly at night, and the surface world would be difference at night.  Or I'll get a ranged attack once I had my bow.  Or at the very least a speed up.

You have a wallet to store 9,900 rupees and there is nothing to buy.  At least the wallet limit is high...yay progress.

this is more about the story, but I didn't like how everything was a trial.  like fuking give me the song already I saved your life earlier why I gotta swim around and grab notes?  hell, why I gotta go find the song notes in the first place?  collect the tears a fourth time? I already have the master sword and the song and the triforce logo on my hand! ffs enough

oh, and fighting the Imprisoned once was more than enough.  I get it.  you slash that pin on his head 27 times.  It's probably the worst boss tied with that ship cyclops.

overworld is still barren, but the surface is great.  kinda wish the surface was a lot bigger.

I thought the point of fewer weapons was to give them more use? you almost never use the slingshot.  other weapons are too rarely used too.

[close]

I mean, most of that stuff is nitpicking.  Other minor things too.  The meat of the game, the dungeons and surface world, is excellent.  Not bothering with a list of things I liked about it either.  Again, except for the controls and ayaname rei.

[Bebpo]

Just finished Dungeon #4.  At first I was like you guys must be crazy for praising a water dungeon since they usually suck, but yeah, this was a GREAT dungeon.  Very cool design.  Lotta fun.  Boss was fun.  Good stuff.

Gonna try to play a lot this weekend since I have some time.  Heading for next silent realm now!  Game is mainly rad.  I think if you play it for the end, aka just to see the credits, it might feel fillerish, but if you play it for the ADVENTURE it's a long, satisfying, Zelda adventure.

Game is looooong.  But I've enjoyed every bit of it so far.

[cool breeze]

I'm reading some other impressions from this thread.  demi is really nailing a lot of my issues like a week before I had them.

[TakingBackSunday]

Any particular ones?

And I don't mind the silent realm stuff.  It's something that I dread doing, but they're quick yet challenging so each time I finish them I'm like "okay that was actually kinda cool."

[Bebpo]

I like the silent realm if I don't die.

Didn't mess up on the 2nd silent realm so it was fun.

[cool breeze]

I liked the silent realm stuff tbh.  You just explore the environment and it becomes almost platformer like.  The only annoyance is again from how stupid the game treats you.  If you signal the enemies, a 4 second cutscene of them waking up.  You can say, "4 seconds isn't bad," but it's 4 seconds every time.

One part in the game has you pressing a switch to open the game, and literally the gate is a foot away from you.  it's like:

[switch]---}|||gate|||{

and every time you step on or off the gate, it shows you a scene of the gate opening or closing.  I know Nintendo wants kids to play this game and kids are dumb, but that dumb?

Like I said, the two bad problems with this game are controls and how dumb the game treats you.  Other problems are more nitpicks that I mentioned above.  Otherwise I liked most everything else.  and to clarify, I don't mind motion controls.  Sword controls work really well. Harp, net, sky diving, and a few other things work well.  Everything else...doesn't.  Again, IR pointing for aiming, analog stick for swimming/flying, etc.  Plus it would've been neat to fly with the analog stick and use the pointer to fire off arrows.

I like the silent realm if I don't die.

Didn't mess up on the 2nd silent realm so it was fun.

you can die in this game? 

[Bebpo]

Well, as in get hit and have to do it all again, which is what happened to me on my first attempt after I'd collected all the tears and then got trapped in a dead end on the way back to the start and got hit