star trek

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I'm on the tail end of Voyager S2 and it's getting... Better ? At least better bottle episodes.
Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

The Thaw is straight up TOS style garbage. I don't know if I like it or not.

If you weren't a fan of Vic Fontaine, just wait until the Voyager crew decide to turn the holodeck into some fucking Oirish pub begorrah begorrah for reasons

[Himu]

I found s1 VOY better than 2.

[Himu]

Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

Not sure if this is better or worse than Tuvix. Tuvix makes me madder but this one is literally the worst idea for a Trek episode of all time, including the racist ones.

JANEWAY MURDERED TUVIX

[VomKriege]

https://chiefobrienatwork.com/

[Himu]

Now that I'm at a computer:

season 1 Voyager was much better. I prefer Janeway as a mother-esque Captain more than the hardened, emotionless Captain she became in s2. s1 had more adventure than 2, which was full of episodes preoccupied with aliens that have hair made of marijuana. I found s2 a massive step back from 1 and didn't find it shocking to see that the earlier, better episodes of the season were left over from s1 production. S3 is pretty good and has a really fun two parter co-starring Sarah Silverman.

I like Voyager once it finds its footing. It gets good, but never truly great like TNG and DS9. But it serves as solid comfort food Trek if you're into that.

[chronovore]

Why doesn't anyone talk about ENTERPRISE though? I mean, seriously, out of nowhere, the final season of that is some of the best Trek to have ever Trekked.

[benjipwns]

I like a lot of Enterprise, for most of the series the ship feels far more in danger and in the unknown than Voyager ever did despite the huge amount of HEY REMEMBER THESE GUYS episodes and hanging around in Vulcan space or whatever. Third season is close to what some people on Voyager wanted to do with Year of Hell, actually do it for a whole season. Archer and T'Pol are good characters. I love Bakula always though.

ALSO YAS QWEEN:

 

[Himu]

Why doesn't anyone talk about ENTERPRISE though? I mean, seriously, out of nowhere, the final season of that is some of the best Trek to have ever Trekked.

Haven't seen it since it was on air. Should give it a go. I want it on bluray first.

[Tasty]

Why doesn't anyone talk about ENTERPRISE though? I mean, seriously, out of nowhere, the final season of that is some of the best Trek to have ever Trekked.

And then the series finale took a big ol' dump on all of it

[VomKriege]

Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

Not sure if this is better or worse than Tuvix. Tuvix makes me madder but this one is literally the worst idea for a Trek episode of all time, including the racist ones.

JANEWAY MURDERED TUVIX

Sadly we never had such a transporter fuck up in TOS that would have resulted in Captain Kock.

[Tasty]

Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

Not sure if this is better or worse than Tuvix. Tuvix makes me madder but this one is literally the worst idea for a Trek episode of all time, including the racist ones.

JANEWAY MURDERED TUVIX

Sadly we never had such a transporter fuck up in TOS that would have resulted in Captain Kock.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Captain Kick on the other hand sounds like a really lame superhero.

[close]

[VomKriege]

Tuvix is a pretty good episode, simple premise but hard dilemma. I'm a bit dumbfounded people are reacting so strongly to it though. It's not the first time a Captain make a questionable decision, Sisko ethnic cleansed a whole planet to settle a score and Picard could get a bit flip floppy on Prime Directive even. The episode is clear of how cold and morally dubious the decision is though it's true the writers ducked out of having Tuvok and Neelix commenting on the situation. I guess some of the audience being disgusted with the plot resolution is proof the writing was efficient. That bridge scene at the end is a bit of a gut punch.

[VomKriege]

Janeway and Chakotay living like Starfleet pilgrims, taking baths and making Play-Doh art.
 

Vulcan night dresses are pretty ballin' tho.

Janeway to monkey : What is it ? What's happened to the sky ?

[VomKriege]

Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

Not sure if this is better or worse than Tuvix. Tuvix makes me madder but this one is literally the worst idea for a Trek episode of all time, including the racist ones.

JANEWAY MURDERED TUVIX

Sadly we never had such a transporter fuck up in TOS that would have resulted in Captain Kock.

(Image removed from quote.)

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Captain Kick on the other hand sounds like a really lame superhero.

[close]

Captain Spick 

[Himu]

Tuvix is a pretty good episode, simple premise but hard dilemma. I'm a bit dumbfounded people are reacting so strongly to it though. It's not the first time a Captain make a questionable decision, Sisko ethnic cleansed a whole planet to settle a score and Picard could get a bit flip floppy on Prime Directive even. The episode is clear of how cold and morally dubious the decision is though it's true the writers ducked out of having Tuvok and Neelix commenting on the situation. I guess some of the audience being disgusted with the plot resolution is proof the writing was efficient. That bridge scene at the end is a bit of a gut punch.

JANEWAY TOOK TUVIX WITH ARMED GUARD AND KILLED HIM AS HE BEGGED FOR LIFE IN FRONT OF EVERYONE

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

[nachobro]

and sisko murdered vreenak after faking evidence to try and change him to their side

in space, people die every day b

[Tasty]

Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

Not sure if this is better or worse than Tuvix. Tuvix makes me madder but this one is literally the worst idea for a Trek episode of all time, including the racist ones.

JANEWAY MURDERED TUVIX

Sadly we never had such a transporter fuck up in TOS that would have resulted in Captain Kock.

(Image removed from quote.)

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Captain Kick on the other hand sounds like a really lame superhero.

[close]

Captain Spick 

Captain... Spock

[Himu]

Except the episode shows that Sisko challenged himself doing which showed why he felt it was so bad and why he also justfied it.

Tuvix does no such thing.

It goes from the crew liking Tuvix, Tuvix preferring their existence, to Janeway suddenly forcing a precedure. It doesn't show Janeway wracked with dealing with the ethical dilemmas nor show any hint of introspection. Tuvix says they have a right to live and then Janeway is just like,"NO YOU DONT".

Then, at the climax, Janeway applied the precedure on Tuvix under armed guard against their own will which the doctor himself refused to do for ethical reasons all while looking like a emotionless robot while doing so.

This is compounded with the fact that much of S2 has Janeway regularly saying that they won't sacrifice Federation ideals. Then the episode hits a nice, big reset button.

Comparing this



With Tuvix is illogical.

One has self awareness and acknowledges going against ones values. The other the captain just does whatever because she wants her friend back.

[Tripon]

[Himu]

I cant find a clip but I hate the way Janeway applied the precedure. Not one word despite someone crying that they don't want to die. Just a mean face. No comfort. Just force.

Truly the worst captain. God I hate her.

[nachobro]

yeah it was handled poorly in the show but it was still the right choice imo. tuvix may have preferred to stay as is but tuvok and neelix as separate consciousnesses had no choice in the matter.

[Himu]

I agree it was the right decision but hate how it was done. Without one shred of mercy or empathy. Janeway has no inner conflict. She just does it.

Thank God Seven took over her ship



Fuck Janeway

[VomKriege]

Tuvix is a pretty good episode, simple premise but hard dilemma. I'm a bit dumbfounded people are reacting so strongly to it though. It's not the first time a Captain make a questionable decision, Sisko ethnic cleansed a whole planet to settle a score and Picard could get a bit flip floppy on Prime Directive even. The episode is clear of how cold and morally dubious the decision is though it's true the writers ducked out of having Tuvok and Neelix commenting on the situation. I guess some of the audience being disgusted with the plot resolution is proof the writing was efficient. That bridge scene at the end is a bit of a gut punch.

JANEWAY TOOK TUVIX WITH ARMED GUARD AND KILLED HIM AS HE BEGGED FOR LIFE IN FRONT OF EVERYONE

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

I cant find a clip but I hate the way Janeway applied the precedure. Not one word despite someone crying that they don't want to die. Just a mean face. No comfort. Just force.

Truly the worst captain. God I hate her.

I felt it was portrayed for what it is. It's cold, there's no compassion and the whole crew is rolling with it though everyone know it's a bit of shitting the bed too. The Doctor making it clear it violated his oath is a big indictment. It does lack an epilogue (from Tuvok, probably) maybe.

[Himu]

The crew going from loving Tuvix to being quiet while under armed guard MADE NO SENSE

There is not one single shred of natural escalation.

Episode is AWFUL.

Tuvix is a pretty good episode, simple premise but hard dilemma. I'm a bit dumbfounded people are reacting so strongly to it though. It's not the first time a Captain make a questionable decision, Sisko ethnic cleansed a whole planet to settle a score and Picard could get a bit flip floppy on Prime Directive even. The episode is clear of how cold and morally dubious the decision is though it's true the writers ducked out of having Tuvok and Neelix commenting on the situation. I guess some of the audience being disgusted with the plot resolution is proof the writing was efficient. That bridge scene at the end is a bit of a gut punch.

JANEWAY TOOK TUVIX WITH ARMED GUARD AND KILLED HIM AS HE BEGGED FOR LIFE IN FRONT OF EVERYONE

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

I cant find a clip but I hate the way Janeway applied the precedure. Not one word despite someone crying that they don't want to die. Just a mean face. No comfort. Just force.

Truly the worst captain. God I hate her.

I felt it was portrayed for what it is. It's cold, there's no compassion and the whole crew is rolling with it though everyone know it's a bit of shitting the bed too. The Doctor making it clear it violated his oath is a big indictment. It does lack an epilogue (from Tuvok, probably) maybe.

My thought on it:

it could more narration AND an epilogue. It should have raised questions of how Janeway felt about it and the conflict within her.

[VomKriege]

And it's not to compare it 1:1 with other Trek series but it's not exactly the first time a high ranking Starfleet officer or captain is taking some questionable decisions with the best of intents.

[Himu]

No it's not the first time, but usually it's done with far more gravitas.

You will find that Voyager regularly has Janeway do cold, harsh things as if to make her a "badass" and when combined it just makes her look like a psychopath.

No Star Trek captain has as much problematic baggage as Janeway. It's the Tuvix thing combined with 999 other examples of what the fuck.

[VomKriege]

The crew going from loving Tuvix to being quiet while under armed guard MADE NO SENSE

There is not one single shred of natural escalation.

Episode is AWFUL.

Someone on Reddit mentioned that Kes was mostly the onscreen surrogate for that. I never got the impression the crew loved him. They warm up to him in the absence of an alternative and they like him, but it's not hard to imagine that most people would rather have Tuvok and Neelix, that they have known for quite some time. Tuvix and Janeway ("When did it stop being a Teleport accident and began being a person") gives all of the expected toolset in dialogue for the audience to grok at it.

To be honest, a "compassionate" procedure might have been softpedaling the decision and a bit hypocritical. The cruel ending does underline the diddiculty of the decision, I think.

[Himu]

Vom this episode is over 20 years old and people still debate it.

Welcome to Trekdom.

On Reddit there's a Tuvix post at least once a week.

A sample:

https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/9mcp8q/just_saw_voyagers_tuvix_and_i_cant_see_how_this/?st=k4u8u680&sh=d458f293

[Himu]

The crew going from loving Tuvix to being quiet while under armed guard MADE NO SENSE

There is not one single shred of natural escalation.

Episode is AWFUL.

Someone on Reddit mentioned that Kes was mostly the onscreen surrogate for that. I never got the impression the crew loved him. They warm up to him in the absence of an alternative and they like him, but it's not hard to imagine that most people would rather have Tuvok and Neelix, that they have known for quite some time. Tuvix and Janeway ("When did it stop being a Teleport accident and began being a person") gives all of the expected toolset in dialogue for the audience to grok at it.

To be honest, a "compassionate" procedure might have been softpedaling the decision and a bit hypocritical. The cruel ending does underline the diddiculty of the decision, I think.

Chakotay considers him a friend like ten minutes before Janeway murders him and stands by and does nothing when he is escorted to his death under armed guard dude

[VomKriege]

Dat Vulcan Jenga tho.

[Himu]

[VomKriege]

Oh no, did Ensign Kim get captured by a RAPE GANG ?
 

[Himu]

RAPE GANGS!!!

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

The Kobayashi Maru solution to tuvix was to replicate the transporter riker dupe to double him, then fix one of the doubles, then you have all 3 as crew

[benjipwns]

Enterprise has a medical ethics debate episode that's handled with a bit more care between Archer and Phlox, but they still run into the problem that they sorta have to forget it and move on due to the nature of the show.

[benjipwns]

Oh no, did Ensign Kim get captured by a RAPE GANG ?
 

Just you wait until you see what kind of trouble Ensign Kim gets himself into with ladies in the Delta Quadrant.

[VomKriege]

JANEWAY SENT BACK HOME TWO MAROONED FERENGIX

[VomKriege]

Oh no, did Ensign Kim get captured by a RAPE GANG ?
 

Just you wait until you see what kind of trouble Ensign Kim gets himself into with ladies in the Delta Quadrant.

Well, all Riker-wannabes have to start somewhere.

[VomKriege]

Wow that Los Angeles 1996 set might be the less realistic thing in Star Trek.
 

And happy 2020 to you all.

Edit : I know Trek has always been "put some loaf on that forehead and voila ! An alien" but Voyager is pretty extreme with having just some nose ridge stuff and call it a day.

Edit 02 : Oh wow Starfleet Vs 90's Militia Hillbillies. Great ideas guys. Sarah Silverman's smile carry a lot of water for those episodes goddamn.

That VFX of the semitruck exploding.
 

[Himu]

Those eps are good!!!

[Tuckers Law]

Sisko and Janeway could hardly be more different.

• Anytime he has to make a decision of dubious morality that carries a grave cost to the ethics and character of what is expected by himself or Starfleet officers as a whole, Sisko is written and played as wracked with guilt and turmoil, showing the emotional cost that comes with a morality-driven person having to make and act on those decisions.
• With Janeway, it’s nearly always played off as not only did she ultimately make the “right decision” despite shaky reasoning, but that Janeway is entirely without doubt or retrospect immediately after making those tough decisions.

.
Janeway is a sociopathic tyrant.

Also: Sarah Silverman is a real cutie in that two-parter.

[VomKriege]

Those eps are good!!!

It subverted my expectations of Khan's Eugenics Wars to be sure.

[VomKriege]

Didn't expect Q to be into JordanN brand of racial science.

And a macho. Less surprising though.

Edit : Janeway going Ripley 

Voyager is sort of the elevator music of Star Trek but that's a really trashy string of episodes.

[Himu]

the alien ripoff episode

[VomKriege]

Ensign Kim made into a giant dad... by a Vulcan !?   

[Tasty]

I've always imagined Vulcans having huge cocks. It's the logical thing to have.

[VomKriege]

The Doctor pimping holo-Vulcan real dolls 
They're really getting every cent back on that beach resort setting.

[Madrun Badrun]

[VomKriege]

Kes finally dumped Neelix !

[VomKriege]

Oh no, did Ensign Kim get captured by a [feminazi] RAPE GANG ?
 

Edit : Ensign Kim son-in-law of Tom Paris 

[VomKriege]

I was shit talking the film so wouldn't claim I was super engaged anyway but man, Into Darkness is really bad. I thought the first film was OK and pretty charming but this one doesn't work at all. Even the actors are pretty stiff and the spell to evoke the original characters is off the target. Photography and grading is pretty tiring.

Plus all the common criticisms that have been made towards the film, how it picks and stitches from the greatest hits but only to deliver a soulless, incoherent patchwork of a story.

[Tasty]

Even as someone 100% on board with JJ Trek after the first movie... even I couldn't stomach Into Darkness. And I may have walked out of the theater thinking it was passable if they didn't pull that stupid fucking Kirk death fakeout and introduce Khan's Magic Super Blood to immediately undo it. (Super Blood that is never mentioned again, ever, even though it apparently cures 100% of the extremely aggressive cancer caused by being inside a warp core.)

Then they're just like "Hey, tribbles!" and I'm just like "Hey, fuck off!"

[Tasty]

Into Darkness does have one of my favorite scenes though, although it actually works best outside the movie with no context.



I was kinda shitting a brick at this point cause the movie still hadn't lost me and this was unprecedented in Trek (to my knowledge; at the very least the JJ direction made it hype as fuck.)

[Tasty]

Watching that clip again makes me mad how shitty they treat the Enterprise in these movies, it gets completely eviscerated almost every action scene... Then in Beyond they just blew it up right out of the gate.

Really takes a lot of the tension out and devalues the act of destroying the Federation flagship.

[nachobro]

every movie after first contact had them trying their hardest to blow up or wreck the enterprise
meanwhile i'm over here demanding more separations of the saucer section

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Isn't the way warp works in the trekverse is that the nacelles hold the warp cores, and the warp cores create a bubble that lets anything inside it go to / stay at warp?

Because thats why you cant have a fire fight in warp. Because anything outside of the warp field isn't capable of warp speeds. So you're just spaffing phasers and shit into yourself the second they leave the warp bubble.
Like using a water pistol into a strong wind.

[Tasty]

Isn't the way warp works in the trekverse is that the nacelles hold the warp cores, and the warp cores create a bubble that lets anything inside it go to / stay at warp?

Because thats why you cant have a fire fight in warp. Because anything outside of the warp field isn't capable of warp speeds. So you're just spaffing phasers and shit into yourself the second they leave the warp bubble.
Like using a water pistol into a strong wind.

Yeah this was my problem with the scene on a tech level, even while watching. There's no way you can shoot something "forward/in front of the ship" when you're going warp, unless you attach a warp drive to a photon torpedo or something.

Originally I thought the big ship was just going to "ram" the Enterprise (it gets pretty fuckin' close in that clip) out of warp, which would make much more sense.

But in the moment it worked, like a lot of JJ stuff. And like I said, without context I like it.

[chronovore]

Why doesn't anyone talk about ENTERPRISE though? I mean, seriously, out of nowhere, the final season of that is some of the best Trek to have ever Trekked.

And then the series finale took a big ol' dump on all of it

Yup. The s4 showrunners were allowed free reign, and it kicked ass. And then Berman and his lackeys came back and said, "You know what would make a great ENT finale? A half-assed TNG episode!"
 

Even as someone 100% on board with JJ Trek after the first movie... even I couldn't stomach Into Darkness. And I may have walked out of the theater thinking it was passable if they didn't pull that stupid fucking Kirk death fakeout and introduce Khan's Magic Super Blood to immediately undo it. (Super Blood that is never mentioned again, ever, even though it apparently cures 100% of the extremely aggressive cancer caused by being inside a warp core.)

Then they're just like "Hey, tribbles!" and I'm just like "Hey, fuck off!"

Yeah, that's one of the things I meant when I talked about JJ Abrams not really thinking things through about what he's breaking, and making the whole fiction more thin and less believable by his flippancy.

[VomKriege]

I'm hesitating on starting ENT before finishing Voyager (not that I'm very invested... It's borderline background noise for me.).

I would really like to get to the movies, especially The Motion Picture, but it would require buying discs or something...

[MMaRsu]

Or downloading a torrent and it taken one hour to get all motion pictures

Then buy them if they are worth it