star trek

[VomKriege]

DS9 S6E25 : The vegan system !? 

[Himu]

All the ferengi eps in DS9 especially the one where Quark crossdresses and shows his gender fluidity

Fight me

[VomKriege]

I mean, some of the comedy was OK (Quark, Rom and Nog making the inquiry calls) so there's that, I'd say there's been worse DS9 episodes.

Christopher Pike medal of honor ?

[Himu]

It's named after Pike in Star Trek TOS.

[VomKriege]

It's named after Pike in Star Trek TOS.

I know, but I'm not sure I saw what he did on Talos IV merited an award to his name.

And wow they managed to tie in the Prophets with Sisko's Créole restaurant.

[Himu]

THE SISKO

[benjipwns]

I know, but I'm not sure I saw what he did on Talos IV merited an award to his name.

wow you just gonna ignore the rest of his storied and decorated career just for the one time he got a whole planet declared off limits

[MMaRsu]

The Sisko is linear

[VomKriege]

I know, but I'm not sure I saw what he did on Talos IV merited an award to his name.

wow you just gonna ignore the rest of his storied and decorated career just for the one time he got a whole planet declared off limits

I mean that's what he was known for onscreen (that and being a Dalek) up until that point though I'm sure you had all the lore already. I just found the drop to be sort of awkward and a mouthful.

[VomKriege]

I don't know how I feel about the whole Pah Wraith thing but it's pretty hilarious and on point to have Dukat just stumble from delusion to delusion at an accelerated pace, claiming he has changed from episode to episode. And becoming a kooky Bajoran Satanist is so on brand for him Snake Saviour Complex much ?

Edit : Oh man, that birth on Empok Nor moment
Gul, you magnificent con man.  

[VomKriege]

Star Trek : Vic Fontaine also some intergalactic war.

[VomKriege]

Gul Dukat, choking ? Another Starfleet lie !

[Himu]

Gul Dukat

[Tuckers Law]

DS9 is so damn good, I even enjoyed it’s supposedly “shit” episodes like Profit and Lace.  Ferengi 

[Himu]

Opportunity and profit

[MMaRsu]

Gul Dukat / Weyoun (more funny than scary but ok), Kai Winn

All impressive bad guys, with interesting characters and great actors behind them. I HATED Kai Winn, which says a lot about the actress and script.

[VomKriege]

Weyoun is a water carrier so he's not scary in that way though he certainly has a way to offer the most horrible threats in the most polite of coating (and there's a couple plot turns where he's acting out of his own volition).

I'm really lukewarm on where the series went with regards to the whole Emissary thing and being full Bajor mystic but I'm not through completely yet. I guess I'll have some random thoughts about DS9 when I wrapped it up.

[MMaRsu]

Where are you at right now?

[VomKriege]

Where are you at right now?

Episode 22 of the final season IIRC.

[nachobro]

Cardassians are so great in that show. Almost all of them are such great characters and really show off the nuance in the "enemy" side

Dukat

Garak

Damar

Ziyal

[MMaRsu]

Nah Ziyal sucks she couldnt even see her fathers greatness cmon

I guess she likes Garaks greatness instead 

[Himu]

I personally love the Bajor-Cardassian conflict. It's my favorite storyline in Trek.

Cardassians and Bajorans have easily the most interesting interspecies dynamics besides humans and ferengi. All of the Bajoran and Cardassian characters are excellent.

My favorite Trek character is Kira. Not sure how far in the DS9 finale Vom is now but

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kira training and helping Cardassians fight for freedom - the same species that enslaved her planet, led by the same man that murdered her friend - is true strength of will. The part where Damar mentions that the Dominion killed innocent women and children and opined how anyone could do such a thing, with that death stare from Kira, and his resolved, introspective silence after is among the strongest scenes in Trek.



Also can I please geek out about Kira in a STARFLEET UNIFORM??

I love her so much. Clearly the baddest bitch in Trek.

[close]

[Tuckers Law]

Kira was so good, I remember having a huge crush on Nana Visitor at the time.  I used to always see in trek stuff Jadzia played up as the sexy one, but for me it was that Nerys Fire I’d have wanted to warm beside.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Usually it’s the churchiest of girls that end up being freaks in the sack.  Makes it easier to convert.

[close]

[VomKriege]

Oh man somehow, despite being familiar with Andrew Robinson as an actor it only just hit me that he was Scorpio.

[Tuckers Law]

Oh man somehow, despite being familiar with Andrew Robinson as an actor it only just hit me that he was Scorpio.

Thats news to me too!  Not many actors that can say they were gunned down by Dirty Harry.

[VomKriege]

I personally love the Bajor-Cardassian conflict. It's my favorite storyline in Trek.

Oh that part is fine, great even, though it gets put on the backburner a bit by the end, what I didn't like is how overt Sisko's status gets by the end. The writing goes way too far IMHO in lifting any ambiguity there is to his religious role. I actually think it makes him embracing it a lot weaker. I didn't mind Dukat writing in that last stretch, which is a common pet peeve among fans, but the epilogue for him and Sisko was really underwhelming and have the air of being an afterthought to the main thread of the Dominion war conclusion. That Vic Fontaine tunnel in the third quarter of the final season is really bizarre and it's a bit baffling they didn't use some of that time for something else. I didn't mind Ezri too much. I think there's some good bits with regards to the comments it introduce w/r/t relationships. That murder investigation episode centered on her was pretty bland though.

Overall I liked the series a lot though it has that distinct pre-prestige TV show era problem of being severely under budgeted for what it has the ambition to portray. It gets a lot more noticeable as the war gets more and more epic but basically they can't scale up over a dozen extras per scene to depict the Cardassian resistance, military HQ or dramatic political changes in the Klingon Empire.

[VomKriege]

https://www.reddit.com/r/greatestgen/comments/d4zryr/maybe_i_should_stop_getting_worfd_every_night/

[Himu]

I'm also fine with SISKO and the religion stuff

[nachobro]

i didn't either. it's a bit hamfisted but that's fine. was a good way to complete the arc of "dude who doesnt even want this assignment, just get bajor into the federation and peace out" to really caring about bajor and it's people and their customs and being fully integrated into their society while also coping with unresolved issues he has with the loss of his wife and mother.

in hindsight with all the shit sisko dealt with, i dunno if anyone other than full scenery chewing avery brooks could have pulled that character off

[Tuckers Law]

While I do roll my eyes at a good deal of what I call “bajoran bullshit” with regards to the whole
Prophets stuff, I do think it ultimately helped in building compelling reasons for the whole deal of Bajoran-Cardassian conflict, as well as informs upon why the Federation would ultimately refuse including Bajor as a part of the Federation.

Even if he had been terrible captain in every other episode (which was of course not the case), Avery Brooks is probably the only actor who could’ve have given such a transformative performance in “Far Beyond the Stars”.  Was pitch perfect and breathtaking.

[VomKriege]

The part I take exception with is really

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sisko's mother being a wormhole alien and him being a demi-god.

[close]

I think it cheapens a lot of Sisko's path and the whole Pah-Wraith thing felt very peripheral even as a factor in Bajor's politics.

But oh well.

[VomKriege]

Is Neelix secretly a great cook, just misunderstood by hu-mans ?
I mean, he does seem to have a broad knowledge of Delta food.

I don't know why Voyager is so bad. Everything from most of the characters to the storylines is so bleh.

[Himu]

Because DS9 up ended a lot of Trek tradition so they wanted to play it safe by doubling down on the TNG formula while not making it as good. Voy was the safe show on and had lots of executive meddling.

Consider it a direct response to DS9.

DS9 - serial storylines
VOY - non serial storylines, red button reset stories

DS9 - takes place on a space station with little travel
VOY - all about the space adventure like in TOS and TNG

VOY gets much better during s3 but nowhere near TNG or DS9. Still enjoyable and gets good when Seven joins.

[VomKriege]

I don't think the safety is the issue except it suffers from the vagueness of the ship's supply shortage which could have been a real plotline running through a season. Jettisoning most of the established familiarity of Klingons, Romulans, etc... was somewhat bold too and so far I can't say they did a good job filling the rogues gallery. It definitely is hurting from the weak characters. Star Trek often gets stridently caricatural & formulaic with its characters but it also help channelling the stories. It's not a mystery why the Doctor is the only thing working properly because he follow the established mold. I'm in the first third of S2. Kes and Tuvok are shaping up better now.

It's hard to believe that the writers suddenly got shit and unable to write some decent SF hooks, but without the characters to anchor them it just doesn't work.

[Tuckers Law]

Continuous reset buttons for Voyager is the primary safety.  That’s one of its biggest weaknesses (writing generally being another).

[Himu]

No, you don't get it. The safety IS the issue. Ron Moore, after finishing his run on DS9, came to VOY team and wanted it much, much darker. People wanted them to run out of ammunition and supplies, and test to see how they could keep their Federation values while stranded in another quadrant with dwindling supply. This pitch was negged by higher ups, who wanted a safer show. Ron Moore went on to showrun BSG 04 which took that exact concept.

Voyager is a case of executive meddling more so than the writers being entirely at fault. Voyager was the flagship show for a newly launched UPN network. They wanted it safe, comfy, and non offensive. It worked at the time (Voyager ratings are very high and it's actually very popular despite online protest of Trekkies) but has tainted its overall legacy.

Voyager is the victim of execs wanting Trek to be a very specific way. The writers on the team really tried but producers and execs wouldn't play ball.

At the time, many didn't care. It was the Trek I grew up with and watched weekly with my dad. It's also my dad's favorite Star Trek. The reaction to pre-s3 DS9 was that bad.

[VomKriege]

It's different forms of defining "safety", I guess. I don't doubt what you mention about the production and yes obviously going for something as episodic is indeed a form of an easier, safer show. But TOS was mostly like that too and it never prevented it from having great episodes. I think they could have pulled it off with better characters.

Edit : Oh god Chakotay is so, so insulting and they keep writing in those phony Native American clichés.

[Himu]

With Chakotay they hired a fake Native American advisor and culture consultant that fed them a bunch of bullshit.

https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/fool-s-gold-the-story-of-jamake-highwater-the-fake-indian-who-won-t-die-TWNcn2mC8EKDindk8TYh6g

[VomKriege]

Oh wow they literally went Chariot of the Gods with First Nations people.
 

[Himu]

Oh wow they literally went Chariot of the Gods with First Nations people.
 

The 90's were very socially progressive despite what people say. 

[VomKriege]

Oh wow they literally went Chariot of the Gods with First Nations people.
 

The 90's were very socially progressive despite what people say. 

I'd guess it's more some misplaced good intent and condescension but considering some infamous TNG episodes and the lack of background checks on the consultant...

[VomKriege]

That's a total fridge thought but considering DS9 does touch on colonialism I wondered if it factored in the casting of Siddig El Fadil as Bashir. The character sort of has that vibe of the perfect Anglo-Indian (or "Anglo-Egyptian" I guess would be more appropriate here) subject and the writing in the initial bouts of the series sorta plays on that, as well as the later big character reveal of his parents being quite pushy for him to overachieve academically speaking.

Maybe just an happy accident of a diverse cast.

[VomKriege]

Man I hope we get Star Trek : Picardo next.

"I pledge to do no harm... NOT."

*smashes Borg cubes with spaceship arms... And legs.*

[Tripon]

The next Star Trek film is in some sort of development hell. It'll be pretty funny if they did another reboot.

[Tasty]

Do a reboot but only in the cast sense.

Trek films have this weird mentality where they have to use TV actors and characters.

Fuck all that! Show us a brand new movie-only crew and ship and time period and conflict. Star Trek is flexible, people.

[benjipwns]

The next Star Trek film is in some sort of development hell. It'll be pretty funny if they did another reboot.

It's because they continue to believe Star Trek can be a blockbuster tentpole tier franchise instead of something they need to cut the budgets on down to at most $100 million and expectations on it to simply target a decent quarter billion box office. Star Trek II, the most important event in the franchise, one of the most beloved and best profitable films, Nicholas Meyer WAS ABLE TO BUILD IN A CAVE... with a box of scraps.

[Himu]

Rolling my fucking eyes so hard because Danti is so goddamn on the money FUCK

[benjipwns]

That's a total fridge thought but considering DS9 does touch on colonialism I wondered if it factored in the casting of Siddig El Fadil as Bashir. The character sort of has that vibe of the perfect Anglo-Indian (or "Anglo-Egyptian" I guess would be more appropriate here) subject and the writing in the initial bouts of the series sorta plays on that, as well as the later big character reveal of his parents being quite pushy for him to overachieve academically speaking.

Maybe just an happy accident of a diverse cast.

Bashir was supposed to be hispanic, but Siddig auditioned for Sisko and they liked him and asked him to be Bashir. Trek has a long history of someone auditioning for another part and getting a different one and going onto success with it. Andrew Robinson auditioned for Odo. Tim Russ auditioned for a ton of roles, including Geordi, before finally getting Tuvok. Those are just the ones I remember. I think on one of the shows the females auditioned for the others part and got switched. Might have been TNG?

[benjipwns]

This is his dad's brother, the former PM of Sudan, look at that fucking beard

[benjipwns]

From searching it has apparently spread in recent years to India, Bangladesh, etc., it's now in lots of Muslim areas in general. Apparently they say Muhammad did it, PBUH.

[benjipwns]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/dreamworks-screwed-up-why-galaxy-quest-wasnt-a-bigger-hit-1264866

To delve into what really happened on the set of Galaxy Quest and beyond, The Hollywood Reporter spoke with director Dean Parisot, producer Mark Johnson and stars Tim Allen, Sigourney Weaver, Sam Rockwell, Tony Shalhoub, Justin Long, Daryl “Chill” Mitchell, Enrico Colantoni and Missi Pyle, who reflect on the film’s legacy and future.

[VomKriege]

My bet is they jump to their own version of TNG. There seems to be more enthusiasm for TNG than the OT nowadays so from a business standpoint that's the thing they'll choose to reboot.

A 2h version of "Rascals".

[Great Rumbler]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/dreamworks-screwed-up-why-galaxy-quest-wasnt-a-bigger-hit-1264866

To delve into what really happened on the set of Galaxy Quest and beyond, The Hollywood Reporter spoke with director Dean Parisot, producer Mark Johnson and stars Tim Allen, Sigourney Weaver, Sam Rockwell, Tony Shalhoub, Justin Long, Daryl “Chill” Mitchell, Enrico Colantoni and Missi Pyle, who reflect on the film’s legacy and future.

It's an absolute shame that Galaxy Quest wasn't a bigger hit, but on the other hand I dunno if they could have made sequels work nearly as well as the original did.

[Tasty]

I am 100% happy with the success Galaxy Quest achieved. That movie is a done-in-one perfect send-up of Trek and I don't think a sequel's cast, writing, or plot would have had nearly the same lightning-in-a-bottle the original had.

That said, maybe it could have still been decent, like Ghostbusters II. But it's also OK to let a series end.

[Tasty]

Galaxy Quest also had extremely underrated music and effects, for the record. Every part of that movie fired on all cylinders.

[Himu]

I see that Benji uses firefox and had that recommended in his Pocket as well.

[VomKriege]

I'm on the tail end of Voyager S2 and it's getting... Better ? At least better bottle episodes.
Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

The Thaw is straight up TOS style garbage. I don't know if I like it or not.

[Tasty]

Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

Not sure if this is better or worse than Tuvix. Tuvix makes me madder but this one is literally the worst idea for a Trek episode of all time, including the racist ones.

[MMaRsu]

Who doesnt like Lizard people 

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Except that episode where Janeway and Paris evolve into lizards.

Not sure if this is better or worse than Tuvix. Tuvix makes me madder but this one is literally the worst idea for a Trek episode of all time, including the racist ones.

beverley crusher fucking a scotch ghost is the worst star trek