It's 20XX and people are mad online about Star War!

[Himu]

I don't read any news on the new SW films or watch shows about them outside of the RLM episodes. (Which is more for humor than fandom.) I only watch the trailers and the films. Probably won't get burnt out.

However, if you follow the hype cycle then you are going to flame out.

I was a massive star wars fan, but you don't gain anything out of the hype cycle.

This is all I do. I watch trailers, don't read much in the way of news or fan gossip/theory crafting or any of the hype crap. And I'm still "flamed out".

[headwalk]

there was plenty of scope to do something interesting with the aftermath of the empire post ROTJ. could've had a babbies first sci fi version of the russian revolution or wiemar germany. plenty of parallels and broad strokes messages about the corruption of power, when revolutionary zeal turns to authoritarianism, how far you're willing to ape the despots you overthrew to protect what you believe in.

game of thrones doesn't have any trouble bridging these and that show is as dumb as they come.

they've painted themselves into a corner at this point though.

[Bebpo]

I always figured Star Wars was like Mass Effect. No reason you can't tell tons of planet stories.

[fistfulofmetal]

Honestly a lot of the discussion around Star Wars being limited seems to center around the notion that Rogue One was bad. And I don't think Rogue One is bad... so I also don't agree Star Wars is limited. There's plenty of stories to be told in the Star Wars world. They just have to be willing to tell those stories.

[Bebpo]

Like for a stupid example, what's stopping them from doing a story about aliens from far away that come to the galaxy to feed on the force or something?

[TEEEPO]

the further star wars distances itself from the original trilogy, the better

[Stoney Mason]

I think most fans have a reasonable expectation that once Episode 9 is done and the spin off movie during that cycle are completed, that what comes after needs to be wholly new.

This late in, its probably unrealistic to expect them to suddenly start breaking with tradition.

Episode X whenever that lands needs to be a whole new kind of thing with new opportunities to do things different. I'm patient enough to wait for that to see if things really do change.

[Nabbis]

Episode 9? What the hell do they have left to show besides the upcoming love triangle?

[chronovore]

'Tis ranking time:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

5 > 4 > 6 > 8 > 7 > R1 > 3 > 1 >>> 2

 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hell, the more I think about Ep. 8 the more I think it's just as good as the Return of the Jedi.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

If not better. 

[close]

[close]

[close]

Ep. VIII is better than VI, most definitely. RotJ turned the empire into Keystone Kops at Endor, just to sell some more teddie bears.

[chronovore]

Besides Luke's death, best scene in the movie.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7keqpx/full_conversation_between_luke_and/

Easily the best scene. Jolting compared to the stuff around it.

"Jolting" -

[chronovore]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

>"It's time to end the Jedi, the First Order, the Rebels, all of it."

Hux shows up

>still a part of the First Order

Very risk, much development

[close]

First off, spoiler that shit.

Secondly, yeah, since it puts

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kylo in a position to manifest any changes he wants at the uppermost level of the FO, as well as be in the position to smash the Resistance, sure. You've misinterpreted Kylo's lies to and colluding with Hux as acquiescence when it's actually manipulation toward Kylo's own ascendence. 

[close]

[Himu]

I think most fans have a reasonable expectation that once Episode 9 is done and the spin off movie during that cycle are completed, that what comes after needs to be wholly new.

This late in, its probably unrealistic to expect them to suddenly start breaking with tradition.

Episode X whenever that lands needs to be a whole new kind of thing with new opportunities to do things different. I'm patient enough to wait for that to see if things really do change.

Correct but I'd say we hope for something new. We don't expect.

[chronovore]

You = worked up.

Me = just liked the movie, don’t care you didn’t

You seem out to prove the movie is objectively bad, that doesn’t mean everyone who disagrees with you thinks it’s objectively good.

This is what's driving me crazy. I think the movie has flaws, but Himu's just going desperately bombastic in the attempt to objectively prove what is inherently subjective. My sister does the same thing, so I've got some sibling baggage tied up in this fight. Trying to isolate those emotions is troublesome. 

[Himu]

No. I think the problem is that the movie is the definition of love it or hate it. That said, I don't actually hate it. I'm frustratingly disappointed. The thing about TLJ is that depending on what you like about Star Wars or what you want from Star Wars certain things might be nitpicks or they might be massive flaws. Some people like things that I disliked about it, and others disliked what I liked about it. The movie is a fucking Star Wars Rorschach test: what you personally see is what you get. A lot of the things we are talking about not just mere flaws to me, they are deal breakers. I realize some people like it and I actually in some way understand why. We are going at this from our point of view. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just talking shit because I'm depressed and need something to talk about. What a lot of people who like the movie cannot GET is that shit that they just find mildly annoying or a flaw or whatever is a massive NO to other people. You might stomach some sections of the movie but I found them boring af. In your own way, by saying,"the movie has flaws but they didn't bother me as much" are you not relaying the movie objectively as you see it from your pov? So come on. Let's not act like it doesn't take two to dance.

[Freyj]

the beetles joke in that rlm killed me

I had to pause the goddam video

[chronovore]

Kylo doesn't go on to fight for the FO. He becomes the leader of the FO. He kills Snoke because he takes the suggestions from Rey and the influences from Snoke and interprets them in a different way. In Rey's opinion you should learn from the past and bring elements from the past with you (she takes the Jedi books). Kylo wants to destroy the past and move on. Burn it all. Snoke is an element from his past, same as Luke. He destroys his past and assumes the leadership because he feels he can fix it. He thinks he and Rey are the same and they can fix it. Rey rejects this.

The interesting aspect - to me - is that Luke has similar views to Kylo, but again just a different interpretation of the same concept.

[Bebpo]

Episode 9? What the hell do they have left to show besides the upcoming love triangle?

Idk, I'm curious to see what Kylo Ren does next.

Also curious to see if Finn EVER DEVELOPS JEDI POWERS 

[agrajag]

naw the final episode of tp is peak lynch

I liked the last episode but the one before it was too silly.

[agrajag]

Lol you people are crazy. Whatever magic SW had George Lucas already defiled it with the trifecta of prequel turd burgers.

[TEEEPO]

everything before the final episode sans the stan brakhage episode was silly

[agrajag]

everything before the final episode sans the stan brakhage episode was silly

Well that's a matter of opinion. I draw the line at the Bob beach ball bouncing around playing rock am sock em with the one punch bathroom glove man.

[Freyj]

(Image removed from quote.)

Disney Channel’s The Force Diaries

[agrajag]

Lol you people are crazy. Whatever magic SW had George Lucas already defiled it with the trifecta of prequel turd burgers.

I would argue it was mostly defiled in ROTJ, which had everything terrible about the prequels for most of the movie, but bolstered by a few really great, iconic to the series scenes. Literally just watch Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes in that movie as everything else is trash.

Hmm, I couldn't agree. The main criticisms seem to stem from everything relating to Ewoks. You neglect to mention Jabba's lair and sail barge, everything about which is classic through and through and the best space battle I've ever seen that still hasn't been topped  decades later.

[Himu]

No, Cindi, you're being a bombastic asshole in this thread since the movie came out for sure. You literally respond to every poster's opinion to tell they're wrong, even if it's something you agree with. And if someone posts "it was fine, whatever" that somehow sets you off even more than "loved it" or "hated it". You gotta chill, she breh.

Sorry. Either way. Time to move on. I didn't like the movie and I have no idea what else there is to say about Star Wars. I did rewatch the ANH the other night because I was in the mood and I don't exactly think it's a good movie anymore. I started ESB and find the intro with Luke lost to be complete banal filler. Andy was right that I used the thread as an excuse to harness my bad irl issues an outlet itt. Not a good look, but hopefully the content, sans my attitude tied with it of course, is understood.

[agrajag]

Lol you people are crazy. Whatever magic SW had George Lucas already defiled it with the trifecta of prequel turd burgers.

I would argue it was mostly defiled in ROTJ, which had everything terrible about the prequels for most of the movie, but bolstered by a few really great, iconic to the series scenes. Literally just watch Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes in that movie as everything else is trash.

Hmm, I couldn't agree. The main criticisms seem to stem from everything relating to Ewoks. You neglect to mention Jabba's lair and sail barge, everything about which is classic through and through and the best space battle I've ever seen that still hasn't been topped  decades later.

Also let's not forget the Star Wars Holiday Special

[chronovore]

Chrono:

I figured her being reflected might mean she is another forced created being like Anakin. That said, she still shouldn't be able to fight like that with so little training.

I'm not sure I agree about the movies representation of the force. They movie definitely says that all life has the force and it doesn't belong to the light or the Jedi, but the problem is that the movie really doesn't represent that outside of Luke doing what he thinks is right and trying to get Kylo. Maybe Ben killing Snoke and all the guards, but I'm not convinced and we don't have a confirmation that action was done purely out of goodness. Rey herself still stays light and doesn't really do much in the way of dark actions. So I'm not seeing how the movie is gray.

To be honest, I kinda agree about Rey's unnatural fighting ability — but I suspect she's close to Anakin levels of Force-adept. She doesn't fight gracefully in TFA, and Kylo doesn't want her dead, he wants to take her captive and turn her — all while he's bleeding from a gut-shot from ol' "Uncle Chewie."

The movie has the Yin/Yang symbol as central, and the light/dark mosaic in the temple, but the point is that things can be more fuzzily defined than a binary dark/light choice. The implication is that these things feed into each other, that they are constantly in a struggle, and that's how it must be. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rey's darkness is discovered by Luke, and shown somewhat by her rage-driven fighting style in TFA. She fights very similar to Darth Sidious in that film; there are articles on it. Kylo is tempted repeatedly toward the light. He needs the light, he is angry at his own need for the light, and resents it — but is ultimately unable to embrace it. He fails to kill his mother. He wants Rey to join him, mainly because he feels alone. Darth Emo is still in full effect here, but he's basically still a troubled youth who fell and wants to get up. I maintain that Kylo's fall and desire to maintain his power but his desire for acceptance is the story I wanted to see with Darth Vader's redemption, which I felt was incredibly rushed and trite.

[close]

The closest we see of Luke being tempted toward darkness is him striking first in the Dagobah tree sequence, and also being the first to ignite his saber when confronting Vader on Bespin. The darkest he gets is when his emotions urge him to defend Leia in the Emperor's presence, nearly striking down his father. Luke's milquetoast throughout the series.

The disgruntled, disillusioned hermit kung-fu master Luke is absolutely my favorite version of him.

[Freyj]

 

This is still the most even-keeled internet place I’ve been able to talk about this film’s strengths and weaknesses.

[zomgee]

Lol you people are crazy. Whatever magic SW had George Lucas already defiled it with the trifecta of prequel turd burgers.

I would argue it was mostly defiled in ROTJ, which had everything terrible about the prequels for most of the movie, but bolstered by a few really great, iconic to the series scenes. Literally just watch Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes in that movie as everything else is trash.

and the space battles hello

[chronovore]

I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

There is a cult of opinion aura that has grown around their fandom as the last word in nerd circles which is a bit annoying but whatever. Sometimes I agree with them sometimes I don't. Like any critic. They are better when analyzing traditional nerd fare like Star Wars and Superhero films, etc. Less so when it expands out of those circles.

My problem is that they've aligned themselves with negativity. I mean, they got big through the very much deserved takedown of the Prequels, but takedown culture in and of itself is just tiresome, destructive, and fosters pessimism.

[Huff]

I loved the Ewoks movies as a kid

[Himu]

The movie has the Yin/Yang symbol as central, and the light/dark mosaic in the temple, but the point is that things can be more fuzzily defined than a binary dark/light choice. The implication is that these things feed into each other, that they are constantly in a struggle, and that's how it must be. 

Can you expound upon this? I still see the movie as nothing but binary. Sell me on the gray. Gray is what I wanted. All I see is the usual black and white like a Bioware game. Rey is tempted by the darkness how? The movie says the cave represents the dark side  but the cave did not tempt her when she went in. She faced no trial. She just looked at a mirror. She didn't even have to work for her goodness. Not like Luke. And Snoke flat out said that the Force craves balance and needs an opposite of Kylo for balance. Kylo has pure fucking fury - that scares Luke even. Snoke outright said the Force made Rey his light counter part.

There's potential for going inside her fighting style. But they just barely touch on it. It shows Luke watching her, says he's scared of her. She knocks a rock off. But it doesn't present it as anything more than that.

Sell me on TLJ's vision of the force, Chrono.

[TEEEPO]

My problem is that they've aligned themselves with negativity. I mean, they got big through the very much deserved takedown of the Prequels, but takedown culture in and of itself is just tiresome, destructive, and fosters pessimism.

if i had the choice between banning either richard spencer types or youtube "film critics" from the platform, i'd go with the latter

[chronovore]

Sell me on TLJ's vision of the force, Chrono.

I've already given that my best shot in my previous posts in this thread.

It's there in spades if you look for it, and I worry that your IRL problems are part of what's affecting your perspective. Not that you're wrong, you've just got blinders on so you can only see part of the picture. I don't see the whole picture, either: my blinders are just pointed in a different direction.

[Stoney Mason]

I have no idea what else there is to say about Star Wars.

Beyond I liked it for x reasons and disliked it for y reasons which applies to any movie and its place relative to the other films there really isn't a lot to say in general. I'm a Star Wars fan (although I'm a much bigger Trek fan) but its the most over-analyzed piece of Pop Culture there has ever been. These pop movies are analyzed like they are the dead sea scrolls.

I mean don't get me wrong. I can navel gazel on nerd minutiae as much if not more than any nerd. But the level it can get for Star Wars always strikes me as silly at a certain point. This crown jewel of nerdom causes so much heartache for some people.

.

[Himu]

I just don't consider it much of a nerd thing because it's so pop. I think it's weird how people find something that is worth 4 billion dollars or more is a "nerd property" but that's one of my many (many) criticisms of nerd "culture" and I won't get into it.

[TVC15]

Lol you people are crazy. Whatever magic SW had George Lucas already defiled it with the trifecta of prequel turd burgers.

I would argue it was mostly defiled in ROTJ, which had everything terrible about the prequels for most of the movie, but bolstered by a few really great, iconic to the series scenes. Literally just watch Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes in that movie as everything else is trash.

I honestly think the only bad thing about ROTJ is Endor. And at least we got cool speeder bikes out or that.

[Stoney Mason]

My problem is that they've aligned themselves with negativity. I mean, they got big through the very much deserved takedown of the Prequels, but takedown culture in and of itself is just tiresome, destructive, and fosters pessimism.

They are definitely cranky old pessimists. To be fair though so am I. It feels good to be that sometimes in a world where it feels like everything already has pre-baked fandom built into it.

But I hear what you are saying. Outside of their Trek and Star Wars stuff, I prefer honestly them watching and examining bad movies and videotapes. The humour comes through stronger. And it just feels more fun and useful relative to them taking on whatever is the latest super hero blockbuster of the week. I don't need another take on Justice League. But having them dig up stuff like Surviving Edged Weapons is a much better piece of entertainment. 

[chronovore]

Lol you people are crazy. Whatever magic SW had George Lucas already defiled it with the trifecta of prequel turd burgers.

I would argue it was mostly defiled in ROTJ, which had everything terrible about the prequels for most of the movie, but bolstered by a few really great, iconic to the series scenes. Literally just watch Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes in that movie as everything else is trash.

I honestly think the only bad thing about ROTJ is Endor. And at least we got cool speeder bikes out or that.

I almost agree with you. The bad things are:
1. Endor
2. ANOTHER Death Star
3. Vader's tacked-on redemption

We've got all this bullshit piled up around the feet of Vader, but the man maimed, tortured, killed, and betrayed his way through 30 years of fascist warmongering. Luke saying, "I sense good in you" is not enough to make up for all of that. Throwing the Emperor down a hole does not erase his crimes. Luke making peace with himself over his horrible dad is a good message, but "just try, and you can be forgiven" is too much a Christian savior cop-out for me.

[Stoney Mason]

I just don't consider it much of a nerd thing because it's so pop. I think it's weird how people find something that is worth 4 billion dollars or more is a "nerd property" but that's one of my many (many) criticisms of nerd "culture" and I won't get into it.

Well I mean its pop because it so big but nerdom really does drive this franchise in a way it doesn't drive many others imo. It's why the franchise is so conservative with Disney. (Also because its disney of course). It feels like they are just so terrified of doing the wrong thing that they keep doing the same thing.

I compare it to Trek which often has periods like this but currently fortunately seems to be experimenting a lot more to redefine Trek by taking actual chances ala Discovery and Tarantino-Trek if that ever comes to life.

[TVC15]

Lol you people are crazy. Whatever magic SW had George Lucas already defiled it with the trifecta of prequel turd burgers.

I would argue it was mostly defiled in ROTJ, which had everything terrible about the prequels for most of the movie, but bolstered by a few really great, iconic to the series scenes. Literally just watch Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes in that movie as everything else is trash.

I honestly think the only bad thing about ROTJ is Endor. And at least we got cool speeder bikes out or that.

I almost agree with you. The bad things are:
1. Endor
2. ANOTHER Death Star
3. Vader's tacked-on redemption

We've got all this bullshit piled up around the feet of Vader, but the man maimed, tortured, killed, and betrayed his way through 30 years of fascist warmongering. Luke saying, "I sense good in you" is not enough to make up for all of that. Throwing the Emperor down a hole does not erase his crimes. Luke making peace with himself over his horrible dad is a good message, but "just try, and you can be forgiven" is too much a Christian savior cop-out for me.

I agree with the Super Death Star, too. I guess it doesn’t bug me as much since the movie called for some sort of grand enemy base. They could’ve been more creative with it.

[Himu]

Lol you people are crazy. Whatever magic SW had George Lucas already defiled it with the trifecta of prequel turd burgers.

I would argue it was mostly defiled in ROTJ, which had everything terrible about the prequels for most of the movie, but bolstered by a few really great, iconic to the series scenes. Literally just watch Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes in that movie as everything else is trash.

I honestly think the only bad thing about ROTJ is Endor. And at least we got cool speeder bikes out or that.

I almost agree with you. The bad things are:
1. Endor
2. ANOTHER Death Star
3. Vader's tacked-on redemption

We've got all this bullshit piled up around the feet of Vader, but the man maimed, tortured, killed, and betrayed his way through 30 years of fascist warmongering. Luke saying, "I sense good in you" is not enough to make up for all of that. Throwing the Emperor down a hole does not erase his crimes. Luke making peace with himself over his horrible dad is a good message, but "just try, and you can be forgiven" is too much a Christian savior cop-out for me.

I think you're inserting what isn't there. No one in Jedi says Darth Vader was forgiven for his crimes. It isn't "I sense good in you" that pushes Vader to the light but his son being killed and hurt right in front of him. I think how they handled Vader was fine. Nowhere in Jedi does it ever say,"just try, and you can be forgiven". Vaders turns to the light side, dies, and then they celebrate. The only way you could infer any of this is by his force ghost, but even that still means nothing like what you're saying.

[chronovore]

You may be right; this is just my impression. I watched the movies in the theaters, in the order they came out, and none of the "fall of Anakin Skywalker" trappings had been invented by Lucas yet. It was just "Luke, I am your father" in ESB, then "Let's rule the galaxy as father and son," then "Luke, you saved me!" — Vader, you shit, you are not saved. You made a lifetime of bad choices, go lay in that bed you made.

However, to your point, Luke brings Vader's body down to the planet and gives him the funeral pyre AWAY from where anyone else would be. Laying him to rest is a personal act between father and son, not even one Leia participates in, and there's clearly no widespread news of Vader's redemption in the canon of VII or VIII.

[Great Rumbler]

[benjipwns]

I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

White supremacy.

[Freyj]

I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

White supremacy.

[VomKriege]

I mean really I'm not sure how you can even have expectations anymore for Star Wars. We're headed to 14 films or so in the future, it's basically James Bond or Godzilla at this point.

[Atramental]

I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

White supremacy.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Rahxephon91]

I like RLM because they are genuine and smart. Smart reviews by people who know what they are talking about, but don't feel like know it alls. They are also largely removed from "nerd culture", so you don't get that taint. I belive they can be a little to cynical sometimes, but they always seems at at least well reasoned.

I also like Oliver Harper, because he seems enthusiastic about movies and not a try hard.

Anyway, I've seen the movie 4 times now and I think I like it. I'm not really interested in writing up a big long essay because I'm not about that life, but the movie is ok. It's more interesting thematically then TFA, I like Rey and Kylo, Luke's depiction was good, I like Finn despite his busy work plot, and there's cool stuff in the movie.

I dislike the Snoke stuff, the casino planet and that plot, the world and conflict, and the movie's dedication to failure.

What I mean is that Rose and Finn should have achieved something. A small victory, but not their primary goal. Maybe thanks to them they find the planet with the rebel base, I don't know. But something to not make their whole plot feel pointless, but to sell the point that even in failure you can learn something/earn something/whatever.  The movie is somewhat missing that part of the lesson. That there is success in failure.

[benjipwns]

I've seen the movie 4 times now and I think I like it. I'm not really interested in writing up a big long essay because I'm not about that life

[kingv]

My problem is that they've aligned themselves with negativity. I mean, they got big through the very much deserved takedown of the Prequels, but takedown culture in and of itself is just tiresome, destructive, and fosters pessimism.

if i had the choice between banning either richard spencer types or youtube "film critics" from the platform, i'd go with the latter

At least Richard Spencer is out there telling kids to drink their milk.

[chronovore]

https://twitter.com/kateleth/status/942838629696643072

[bork]

[bork]

[Eel O'Brian]

I again must state that I cannot understand the love for the rlm people

White supremacy.

(Image removed from quote.)

For a second I thought that guy had a ponytail, and then I realized it was just something in the background. I was gearing up to son him so hard

[TakingBackSunday]

http://www.slashfilm.com/reys-parents-rian-johnson/

Spoilers in the link, obviously.

I love Rian's explanation for this choice.

[Great Rumbler]

http://www.slashfilm.com/reys-parents-rian-johnson/

Spoilers in the link, obviously.

I love Rian's explanation for this choice.

It was the best possible decision, really.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rey is a nobody. Her parents were nobodies. The idea that she had to be SOMEBODY in order to be the hero of the movie was always pretty ridiculous, especially the fan theories that she was Obiwan's granddaughter or something. *insert massive eyeroll* Doing it this way also ties in nicely with the final scene.

[close]

[team filler]

can rian johnson go back and finish Lost for abrams too?

[Stoney Mason]

I had plenty of issues with the movie.

But I won't lie. It does make me happy that a lot of pissed off internet nerds are foaming at the mouth over this stuff.

And honestly over such minor stuff. That movie is so tame. If they did the stuff I would like to see these people would be taking to the streets.


 

[Himu]

Yeah, as much I dislike the movie foaming at the mouth about the treatment of Luke (which was done perfectly IMHO) and Rey's lack of importance parents (which is great) is the least of the movies problems.

[Human Snorenado]

I can only hope Himuro brings even 1/10 of her critical thinking skills and failure to reconnect with what she liked earlier in life that she's brought to Star War to Shenmue 3.