The Bore does what NeoGAF doesn't.

[Shadow Mod]

I always end up dungeon crawling and having nothing to do with the main quest in Fallout/Elder Scrolls games.

[mormapope]

Remember, there are Gaffers that try to show unknowing or unwilling friends and family the intro to The Last of Us.

I genuinely think gaming side gets worse and worse with time. You Gaf veterans might say it was always shit or became ultra shit at a certain point, but to me, shit is getting worse.

I don't know that its getting worse but there is an elitism in games that was always there but seems increasingly more prevalent nowadays that is super annoying. It's like nobody plays videogames to actually enjoy them anymore. It's all about dissecting everything like its a fine wine.

The ratio of posts talking about the fun times in a game or experiences in a game versus meta-dissection of the genre is out of whack.

And its not just on forums. It's like the people you meet online are the same way.

Very true. As a person that has been playing and following games like a hawk even as a kid, the constant elitism and dissection of the most minutiae stuff on Gaf and other places is painful and often embarrassing.

Most of the conversations have nothing to do with game design, the intention behind mechanics and gameplay, the natural restrictions of creating something and the ingenuity of conquering those restrictions. All of this is probably boring for even "hardcore" gamers, but discussing that stuff in a simple manner entertains me.

 

[Shadow Mod]

It's because assholes keep talking about games like they're art rather than entertainment and at the same time hating on actual fucking art whilst blowing themselves for having STEM degrees.

[mormapope]

For all the toxic shit gamers throw at game reviewers, the criticism and elaboration behind their own thoughts are usually written in the same vein that a 6th grader would type out.

 

[mormapope]

It's because assholes keep talking about games like they're art rather than entertainment and at the same time hating on actual fucking art whilst blowing themselves for having STEM degrees.

The fucked up thing about this is crafting great entertainment takes just as much effort as a lot of pieces of art. And to me, the craftsmanship itself along with intention is what differentiates good art and bad art.

For example, TV as a medium is an artform, but the quality differences is what matters more, not the label. I'd consider Jersey Shore art just like The Wire could be considered art, but the difference in craftsmanship and intention is what makes The Wire good as a piece of art and Jersey Shore a steaming pile of bro.

[Great Rumbler]

I got my dad to play Mario Kart with me after begging, whooped my ass, then was like "you want me to keep playing with you?" 

Then later he didn't understand why I played war games.

My dad and I beat Halo 1 in co-op.

[Mr Gilhaney]

Remember, there are Gaffers that try to show unknowing or unwilling friends and family the intro to The Last of Us.

I genuinely think gaming side gets worse and worse with time. You Gaf veterans might say it was always shit or became ultra shit at a certain point, but to me, shit is getting worse.

Well I did this when I was a kid/young teen as well. It's fucking stupid to look back on now, but... Eh. I've done worse when I was a dumb kid. 

I got my dad to play Mario Kart with me after begging, whooped my ass, then was like "you want me to keep playing with you?" 

Then later he didn't understand why I played war games.

My dad and I beat Halo 1 in co-op.

I remember my dad unlocking pretty much everything in the PS1 gran turismo games. It had an unfortunate end when my brother managed to destroy the memory card, by walking directly into the controller cord, smashing the PS1 onto the ground, memory card first. Also used to have fifa/pes competitions with his friends and mine, which was great. He still buys the new playstations when they are released, and does have a PS4 and PS+, he never really gets into anything though other than fifa and gran turismo. Sometimes he will try to play some games he downloaded off PS+, which results in him getting frustrated about not remembering the controller layouts.

[tiesto]

It's because assholes keep talking about games like they're art rather than entertainment and at the same time hating on actual fucking art whilst blowing themselves for having STEM degrees.

Why can't entertainment be art?
And what's wrong with STEM degree people commenting on art? (I'm a STEM major with an art minor so natch )

Most of the conversations have nothing to do with game design, the intention behind mechanics and gameplay, the natural restrictions of creating something and the ingenuity of conquering those restrictions. All of this is probably boring for even "hardcore" gamers, but discussing that stuff in a simple manner entertains me.

I agree, though having experience designing games I tend to find these discussions more interesting than "the characters were a bunch of walking cliches and the graphics are blurry". Jeremy Parish's anatomy of games is pretty good with this, dissecting level design for classic games. And hey, back to Mario, 'creativity' can certainly be bound by limitations - Performance art is creativity too, and games with top-notch level designs allow for this (ie: speedrunning)

[Shadow Mod]

Why can't entertainment be art?
And what's wrong with STEM degree people commenting on art? (I'm a STEM major with an art minor so natch )

It can but dissecting all games as if the premise is anything other than a braindead concept and a message is just too cute. Most games are entertainment driven first and foremost, not a dazzling conceptual and thematic experience, despite whatever pretentious crap gamers or devs will say.

I dunno if you're trying to be willfully ignorant of the kinds of threads that happen over there but there's plenty of circle jerks about STEM degrees, how liberal arts/fine art degrees are so worthless, and how x, y and z (especially performances/modern) isn't art just because...

[curly]

but what is art?

[thisismyusername]

but what is art?

Baby don't Liberal-Major. Please don't Liberal-Major...

ST.EM.

[qq more]

I'd never understand how people DON'T understand the appeal of Minecraft. And lmfao at every Nintendo fanboy that were let down by the announcement. What the hell did they expect? Retro's Platinum's Metroid Kong Prime? Minecraft Wii U was leaked not too long ago by PEGI's rating board, how did they not see that coming? 

[Kabouter]

Remember, there are Gaffers that try to show unknowing or unwilling friends and family the intro to The Last of Us.

I genuinely think gaming side gets worse and worse with time. You Gaf veterans might say it was always shit or became ultra shit at a certain point, but to me, shit is getting worse.

I don't know that its getting worse but there is an elitism in games that was always there but seems increasingly more prevalent nowadays that is super annoying. It's like nobody plays videogames to actually enjoy them anymore. It's all about dissecting everything like its a fine wine.

The ratio of posts talking about the fun times in a game or experiences in a game versus meta-dissection of the genre is out of whack.

And its not just on forums. It's like the people you meet online are the same way.

I don't know, most of the time when I talk about video games with people (which, admittedly, is generally not on GAF) it's about those fun times.

I always end up dungeon crawling and having nothing to do with the main quest in Fallout/Elder Scrolls games.

Yeah, it's not even a deliberate thing with me really, but when playing Bethesda games I just get distracted from the main quest pretty early on and tend to come back to it quite late after having done tons of other stuff. There's just too much other stuff to do .

[BrokenVerses]

Remember, there are Gaffers that try to show unknowing or unwilling friends and family the intro to The Last of Us.

I genuinely think gaming side gets worse and worse with time. You Gaf veterans might say it was always shit or became ultra shit at a certain point, but to me, shit is getting worse.

I don't know that its getting worse but there is an elitism in games that was always there but seems increasingly more prevalent nowadays that is super annoying. It's like nobody plays videogames to actually enjoy them anymore. It's all about dissecting everything like its a fine wine.

The ratio of posts talking about the fun times in a game or experiences in a game versus meta-dissection of the genre is out of whack.

And its not just on forums. It's like the people you meet online are the same way.

Sometimes I get the feeling that a lot of these people really don't have much else going on in their lives.

[tiesto]

Why can't entertainment be art?
And what's wrong with STEM degree people commenting on art? (I'm a STEM major with an art minor so natch )

It can but dissecting all games as if the premise is anything other than a braindead concept and a message is just too cute. Most games are entertainment driven first and foremost, not a dazzling conceptual and thematic experience, despite whatever pretentious crap gamers or devs will say.

I dunno if you're trying to be willfully ignorant of the kinds of threads that happen over there but there's plenty of circle jerks about STEM degrees, how liberal arts/fine art degrees are so worthless, and how x, y and z (especially performances/modern) isn't art just because...

tbh, I don't really venture into OT at all anymore, most of my GAF viewing is sticking to threads on retro and RPG discussion in the Gaming side... Though I did catch the 'art installation that got thrown out because the janitors thought it was trash' thread 

Divided over the liberal arts vs. STEM degree argument. Anecdotal, but the people I know with STEM degrees are better off financially than the liberal arts degrees, excepting those in the education fields. But I will say having an art minor has helped me stand out from other CS degrees, and my coworkers usually defer to me when it comes to layout/design advice for our application. Doesn't mean there's no need for non STEM people (my group's best coder dropped out of Stony as a freshman), not to mention it's not a quick and easy ticket to a 6-figure salary for everyone. There were TONS of people in my early CS courses who later switched to a liberal arts field because they jumped in to cash in the initial dotcom boom of the 90's and realized it wasn't their thing... But yeah GAF is pretty black/white with certain things

[Phoenix Dark]

But liberal arts degrees are indeed worthless, especially in this economy. You don't have to be a STEM tard to recognize that.

[Steve Youngblood]

To the lego thing: do you even know how expensive that shit is or were you just bought a bunch of that shit regardless?

Yes. Yes I do. What's so stupid about it is that we buy this shit for a 4 year old that would be much better served with the simpler Duplos, but he gravitates toward the cooler looking LEGO sets and we buy those because we are idiots.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Look STEMies, you wouldn't ask a liberal arts major for their take on a sorting algorithm. You'd laugh at them.
Same thing when we hear you talk about art.

[brawndolicious]

Look STEMies, you wouldn't ask a liberal arts major for their take on a sorting algorithm. You'd laugh at them.
Same thing when we hear you talk about art.

Didn't you get a BFA in music, which is a very intense, focused program on a particular skill set? I personally think that we should make the last two years of high school a "liberal arts" degree and then have college focus on the stuff you do in an actual job. Liberal arts skills are important for every career but a college degree in it is not very marketable in terms of showing how competitive you were as a student.

[I'm a Puppy!]

All the important skills I've used in my career I learned from my liberal arts degree. Problem solving, planning, negotiation all that. Learning to code or something is secondary. I know plenty of MSCS people that can't really think or solve a problem

I personally think there just needs to be trade schools centered. If you wanna learn to code then just learn to code. If you want a classical/renaisannce styled education then go to college. Sadly everyone's bought into this notion you have to have a degree to even flip burgers.

[tiesto]

Look STEMies, you wouldn't ask a liberal arts major for their take on a sorting algorithm. You'd laugh at them.
Same thing when we hear you talk about art.

Just to stir the pot a bit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Hoare - the inventor of the Quicksort studied classics and philosophy at Oxford   

[I'm a Puppy!]

See? All the worthy things in STEM were created by liberal artists.

[id0it]

Engineering - Learn to code or something™

[nudemacusers]

Remember, there are Gaffers that try to show unknowing or unwilling friends and family the intro to The Last of Us.

I genuinely think gaming side gets worse and worse with time. You Gaf veterans might say it was always shit or became ultra shit at a certain point, but to me, shit is getting worse.

I don't know that its getting worse but there is an elitism in games that was always there but seems increasingly more prevalent nowadays that is super annoying. It's like nobody plays videogames to actually enjoy them anymore. It's all about dissecting everything like its a fine wine.

The ratio of posts talking about the fun times in a game or experiences in a game versus meta-dissection of the genre is out of whack.

And its not just on forums. It's like the people you meet online are the same way.

Unless it's a Sony exclusive.  Even The Order gets a nice circle jerk thread every other month.

The last one was a pretty sad one though. Just a few dudes in an alley gathered around a stale saltine.

[headwalk]

i learned close to fuck all at university and got a job in a vaguley related field where i always pretend my experiences at university level give me an extra dimension of cutting expertise into whatever we're doing and nobody can say otherwise cause i've got a degree to prove it.

[Narag]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188364257&postcount=132

 

[I'm a Puppy!]

If anyone didn't think console gaming is dead they should see how the thing dominating the hearts and minds of gamers is revisiting an 18year old game

[headwalk]

console gaming is the IV drip and GAF is the hospice.

[thisismyusername]

Remember, there are Gaffers that try to show unknowing or unwilling friends and family the intro to The Last of Us.

I genuinely think gaming side gets worse and worse with time. You Gaf veterans might say it was always shit or became ultra shit at a certain point, but to me, shit is getting worse.

I don't know that its getting worse but there is an elitism in games that was always there but seems increasingly more prevalent nowadays that is super annoying. It's like nobody plays videogames to actually enjoy them anymore. It's all about dissecting everything like its a fine wine.

The ratio of posts talking about the fun times in a game or experiences in a game versus meta-dissection of the genre is out of whack.

And its not just on forums. It's like the people you meet online are the same way.

Unless it's a Sony exclusive.  Even The Order gets a nice circle jerk thread every other month.

The last one was a pretty sad one though. Just a few dudes in an alley gathered around a stale saltine.

But, let me tell you about #DriveClub!

DAE LUV BLOODBOURNE!?

[Yulwei]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188364257&postcount=132

 

sounds like mental illness

[Mods Help]

LEGIT QUESTION.

I am 100% serious.

How come art majors have to do MATH and Chemistry but STEM people can totally ignore art and other things like it despite being equally of value as chemistry or math? If everyone else has to suffer through the first two years and take MATH when all we wanna do is draw and paint then certainly it's ONLY FAIR that STEM people be forced to suffer with everyone else and take things that have nothing to do with their major they hate as well.

[nudemacusers]

LEGIT QUESTION.

I am 100% serious.

How come art majors have to do MATH and Chemistry but STEM people can totally ignore art and other things like it despite being equally of value as chemistry or math? If everyone else has to suffer through the first two years and take MATH when all we wanna do is draw and paint then certainly it's ONLY FAIR that STEM people be forced to suffer with everyone else and take things that have nothing to do with their major they hate as well.

Most college degree programs require students to take some lib arts foundation courses. One of the dudes in my art classes was a physics major. Cool dude.

[Oblivion]

LEGIT QUESTION.

I am 100% serious.

How come art majors have to do MATH and Chemistry but STEM people can totally ignore art and other things like it despite being equally of value as chemistry or math? If everyone else has to suffer through the first two years and take MATH when all we wanna do is draw and paint then certainly it's ONLY FAIR that STEM people be forced to suffer with everyone else and take things that have nothing to do with their major they hate as well.

The colleges and universities here in SoCal require everyone take a bunch of general education courses regardless of their major.

[brawndolicious]

I think I agree with everything you're saying Puppy. But it seems everyone has a college degree these days and they are applying to jobs at nearly every level. People making hiring decisions usually have college degrees and are probably a bit biased towards hiring a candidate with one even if 95% if their job isn't anything they covered in school.

Hell even if you were a STEM major and got a job in a STEM field, you probably didn't have more than one class that focused on the technical things you're doing all day at your job. One crisis I see is all the pre-med majors where most of them obviously are never going to end up in a medical field so I'm not sure what they can do other than reinvent themselves somehow.

LEGIT QUESTION.

I am 100% serious.

How come art majors have to do MATH and Chemistry but STEM people can totally ignore art and other things like it despite being equally of value as chemistry or math? If everyone else has to suffer through the first two years and take MATH when all we wanna do is draw and paint then certainly it's ONLY FAIR that STEM people be forced to suffer with everyone else and take things that have nothing to do with their major they hate as well.

The colleges and universities here in SoCal require everyone take a bunch of general education courses regardless of their major.

I think there's a mandatory ~40% General Ed requirement for all majors in the UC/CSU system. That covers everything from art to history to science to math so some of it will be satisfied by the classes you're taking for your major.

Art history was my favorite subject. 

[Cerveza mas fina]

In the Netherlands when you study History, you only do History. Same with Law and any other degree.

There is no side bullshit.

[VomKriege]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188364257&postcount=132

 

sounds like mental illness

Dude asking to watch the tapes of the CCTV
Also being rude to the people giving him back his phone.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188366969&postcount=167

 

[Shadow Mod]

Lost his fucking phone, restaurant keeps it in a safe which probably fucks up the tracking mechanism, but he accuses them of stealing it when they gave it right to him. lol. Ass.

[mormapope]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188391413&postcount=262

It's not that different from what Germany did to the jews either

Fuck Trump

 

Its not like Japanese interment camps were a good thing, but how in the fuck can you compare Japanese interment camps in the United States to shoving jews into ovens and gas chambers in Germany and around Europe?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The best part about STEM degrees is that in about ten years at most, they will be every bit as useless as liberal arts degrees.

The kids who are flooding to those majors now aren't going to fare much better than the sociology majors they currently deride.

[Your Stalker]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188401994&postcount=18

If I was a halfway famous dude and had a good chunk of money I think I'd go fucking insane trying to fuck girls. Of all kinds. Id be fucking random Facebook chicks. Random girls on the street. I'd go out for walks and pick up a chick then take her back and fuck her and then move on the the next one. Fuck the hot chicks in high school. Fuck a teacher from high school. Fuck the girl in the neighborhood I liked.

I'd be scary with no natural limits on fucking.

Not in a rapey way mind you....in a hedonistic way I mean.

[nudemacusers]

Actually it would be more powerful to deny sex to all the groupies. Think of how desperate they would get, trying to reach the top of the hill only to roll back down.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Actually it would be more powerful to deny sex to all the groupies. Think of how desperate they would get, trying to reach the top of the hill only to roll back down.

You must have know Tim Brown then. He pretty much use to say the same thing.

[octopushover]

"Not in a rapey way, in a hedonistic way" is probably what he has to say to every girl he hits on.

[nudemacusers]

Actually it would be more powerful to deny sex to all the groupies. Think of how desperate they would get, trying to reach the top of the hill only to roll back down.

You must have know Tim Brown then. He pretty much use to say the same thing.

Can't say I do, but he is wise man.

[tiesto]

LEGIT QUESTION.

I am 100% serious.

How come art majors have to do MATH and Chemistry but STEM people can totally ignore art and other things like it despite being equally of value as chemistry or math? If everyone else has to suffer through the first two years and take MATH when all we wanna do is draw and paint then certainly it's ONLY FAIR that STEM people be forced to suffer with everyone else and take things that have nothing to do with their major they hate as well.

SUNY has you take gen ed classes - 4 semesters of language (picked Japanese obviously), English, 2 semesters of world history, a class on cultural pluralism. Was also in the honors program so we had to take a class every semester for the first 2 years in various non-STEM subjects (existentialist philosophy, classics, etc.)

[Joe Molotov]

Lost his fucking phone, restaurant keeps it in a safe which probably fucks up the tracking mechanism, but he accuses them of stealing it when they gave it right to him. lol. Ass.

Maybe they buried the phone?

[nachobro]

LEGIT QUESTION.

I am 100% serious.

How come art majors have to do MATH and Chemistry but STEM people can totally ignore art and other things like it despite being equally of value as chemistry or math? If everyone else has to suffer through the first two years and take MATH when all we wanna do is draw and paint then certainly it's ONLY FAIR that STEM people be forced to suffer with everyone else and take things that have nothing to do with their major they hate as well.

I had to take art, dance, and music classes when I was getting my CS degree. I didn't have to when I got my Associates though

[octopushover]

legit answer: having gone to a school where STEM majors had to take an arts requirement and arts majors had to take a STEM requirement, arts students typically don't speak up in STEM classes but STEM majors are fucking relentless and pedantic in arts classes so i'm okay with them having their breadth requirements waived so they stop annoying the shit out of the rest of us.

[Mods Help]

legit answer: having gone to a school where STEM majors had to take an arts requirement and arts majors had to take a STEM requirement, arts students typically don't speak up in STEM classes but STEM majors are fucking relentless and pedantic in arts classes so i'm okay with them having their breadth requirements waived so they stop annoying the shit out of the rest of us.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Actually it would be more powerful to deny sex to all the groupies. Think of how desperate they would get, trying to reach the top of the hill only to roll back down.

You must have know Tim Brown then. He pretty much use to say the same thing.

Can't say I do, but he is wise man.

Better get up on your Oakland legends kid.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Lost his fucking phone, restaurant keeps it in a safe which probably fucks up the tracking mechanism, but he accuses them of stealing it when they gave it right to him. lol. Ass.

Maybe they buried the phone?

He's an asshole. If solid metal walls fuck on your phone signal (they do) then what the fuck does he think 4-6 inches of a solid metal safe is going to do?

I'd have kicked this dicktard out of my place of business and never looked back.

[FStop7]

In the Netherlands when you study History, you only do History. Same with Law and any other degree.

There is no side bullshit.

That sucks, to be honest.

[Tasty]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1153172

I mean I have never seen snow in my life

 

But I can't swim (Yes I live in FL and can't swim).

[Shadow Mod]

Lots of places don't get snow

 

[brawndolicious]

I thought only ski resorts get snow?

[toku]

It snows in fl truss

 

[Shadow Mod]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1152836

 

[Tasty]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1152836

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188386523&postcount=19

[Shadow Mod]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1152836

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188386523&postcount=19

Smash bros

deep

 

[mormapope]

Competitively, it actually is. You can't knock Smash Melee players when it comes to the shit they do with the game.

The execution required is pretty strenuous.