Author Topic: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE  (Read 309796 times)

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benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1740 on: July 31, 2018, 02:35:30 AM »
Whenever they do their bug fixing show, the code still points to a CryEngine folder (unless I haven't looked at any recent ones).

Also there's a company that makes a static code analyzer, and they found that Lumberyard has a bunch of logical errors in it that Crytek fixed and Amazon hasn't.
oh god at this, they made some really definitive claims in their response to the Crytek suit

did nobody learn anything from the Epic/Dyack suit?

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1741 on: July 31, 2018, 09:27:23 AM »
Whenever they do their bug fixing show, the code still points to a CryEngine folder (unless I haven't looked at any recent ones).

Also there's a company that makes a static code analyzer, and they found that Lumberyard has a bunch of logical errors in it that Crytek fixed and Amazon hasn't.
oh god at this, they made some really definitive claims in their response to the Crytek suit

did nobody learn anything from the Epic/Dyack suit?

It was already picked up by goons when the lawsuit was filled. Like bluemax I don't know if they clamped down on it : you could I guess dispute the date the footage was filmed but it was pretty poor form at the minimum.

AFAIK They've always been pretty elusive about that purported engine change which informally was reported as having taken only a couple of days. When pressed by Derek Smart on the Frontier forum, former-Elite-now-CIG employee Ben Parry wasn't very convincing at clarifying it despite explanations.

CIG was (is ?) using an older version of CE and I don't know if and how Lumberyard process that.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 09:37:27 AM by VomKriege »
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kingv

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1742 on: July 31, 2018, 11:26:16 AM »
I appreciate Derek Smart trying to drag every space game into the shitter with him.

bluemax

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1743 on: August 01, 2018, 12:04:48 AM »
I laugh at their couple of days to switch engine versions. Like, yeah when I did a relatively simple F2P game in Unity I could switch over in a day without too many issues, but that's kinda different because in Unity you don't have engine level access. But the place I'm at currently, whenever we update Unreal Engine versions we spend about a week to make sure everything still works right before we deploy it to the designers/artists/animators and our game doesn't have near the scope of SC.

Oddly, now that I think about it the only time I ever met a programmer for CIG was when I interviewed there like 5 or so years ago when they were first starting. Feels like I only ever meet artists, and sometimes I see this one designer.
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Raist

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1744 on: August 01, 2018, 02:20:22 AM »
Well those ships.jpg aren't going to make themselves now are they?

nudemacusers

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1745 on: August 01, 2018, 04:47:04 AM »
Oddly, now that I think about it the only time I ever met a programmer for CIG was when I interviewed there like 5 or so years ago when they were first starting. Feels like I only ever meet artists, and sometimes I see this one designer.
All those people are game developers tho
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1746 on: August 01, 2018, 03:28:28 PM »
So, there's used to be a cap on how much of the in game currency you could buy but hopefully it's been fixed. AFAIK you can't do much with it at this point...

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/93c6z2/psa_there_is_no_longer_a_cap_for_maximum_amount/?st=jk9tx1gl&sh=2f43f48e

Quote
It's a math thing, even if we take double the time to develop the game from where we are now, the max any player would have is $120 million. Is that even close to what we expect a Bengal Carrier would cost? An air craft carrier costs $13 billion. It's a thousandth of a percent of the gross galactic product for a 10 x earth level productivity system.

It would take 10,000 spending $120,000 a piece on UEC, giving us $1.2 billion dollars towards development to reach our 10% of of the economy that players represent in a 9-1 ratio.

This is in the "sounds bad but actually means nothing" department.

:what
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1747 on: August 01, 2018, 03:34:29 PM »
Quote
Totally agree. The sky isn't falling over this choice. They have YEARS to figure this shit out. We're getting only 1 new profession in all of 2018. The beta seems so far out at this point, I can't even muster mild concern for this change.

:rollsafe

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I'll ignore the jabs (which is a poor discussion tactic) and just reply to the pertinent points. Everything I have read shows this is not a game where Person A will take his Idris and mess with your Aurora gameplay. 9:1 NPC to Player ratio means everyone will be able to have a great exp in the universe whatever they might be doing.

:insane
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 03:55:41 PM by VomKriege »
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bluemax

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1748 on: August 01, 2018, 11:40:31 PM »
Oddly, now that I think about it the only time I ever met a programmer for CIG was when I interviewed there like 5 or so years ago when they were first starting. Feels like I only ever meet artists, and sometimes I see this one designer.
All those people are game developers tho

Well artists are developers, I'm not trying to say they aren't. Just that their programmers don't come out and socialize. Also I talked to the designer guy I mentioned once a couple years ago and he raved about a programmer doing crazy physics for them. I'm betting he was talking about that dude who just left a few weeks ago.

Vom did you see that screen cap in the SA thread of a person on the CIG forums or whatever it is complaining about how they get harassed in game every time they spawn their super expensive ship? That was some peak Star Citizenry.
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1749 on: August 02, 2018, 02:41:31 AM »
Oh, I missed that one. But yeah whales be entitled, how could they not ? In that currency thread some people are mentioning devaluation to counteract the hoarding, which would have hilarious effects. I'm skeptical Star Citizen will reach the level of completion that would necessitate this however. Backstabbing their whales would be the kiss of death, I think they know that, they can probably stretch nominal development with half a dozen devs ten years more by just sucking dry a couple of hundred of those.

Curious to see what they'll start selling next.
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benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1750 on: August 02, 2018, 11:14:48 PM »
Quote
The decision to remove the cap either results in massive inflation meaning no normal players can afford things, or price fixing ("because 9:1 NPC ratio!!1!!!") meaning ultra-wealthy players have even more buying power.

You can't crew a Javelin with NPCs paid in ships. You can't fill a Hull E with cargo paid for with ships. You can't employ a constant escort of fighters with a salary of ships. Ships are not near as liquid of an asset as money, which will always make the world go 'round.

The decision and the response to it makes me honestly wonder if CIG is employing anyone who has worked on an MMO economy before. Not claiming I have, but this is basic stuff. With no money sinks other than buying ships and with the ability to buy infinite UEC... forget any P2W argument - the game economy is screwed right out of the gate.

"But people can just buy ships to horde wealth" - Ships can't be turned into cash as easy as cash being cash. All one has to do is look at the current market where ships that actually sell are largely either very rare or priced below cost. Having to invest in ships creates a commodity market, and you can only get out of your investment what someone is willing to pay for it. If everyone's investing in an infinite pool of ships, their value tanks. Cash is always cash, is liquid, and retains its value - unless devalued through inflation caused by increasing the amount of cash in circulation... or infinite inflation caused by an infinite increase in the amount of cash in circulation.

"But there's a 9:1 NPC ratio" - That's just price fixing. Artificially keeping prices low to stop inflation. Again, this results in more buying power for the ultra-wealthy who can buy any thing, any deed, or anyone they please.

"There's no 'win' in this kind of game" - Maybe not, but there are plenty of ways someone with infinite wealth and therefore power can make you have a very bad day.
This is so cart before the horse. :lol

For one thing, you have a Central Bank with powers that go infinitely beyond those in the real world.

benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1751 on: August 02, 2018, 11:17:55 PM »
IIRC, this was one of the things Valve had that Greek economist they hired look into because they were concerned about it happening in their markets. I think the main takeway was that the economies of these games will never get big enough, and Valve was looking at a F2P game with potentially millions of users (for TF2 initially but probably will matter more to their experience with DOTA 2), to have the problem of runaway inflation with values tied to real world currency amounts. And that they only need to tweak the drop rates to prevent it, they didn't have to change the peg or the in-game currency.

I want to say CCG also grappled with this but found it wasn't as big of deal as was potentially feared. That again, only a minor constraint was needed to prevent the supply from exploding out of control.

Of course, they probably didn't model a "fanatical cult fanbase that spends millions of real world dollars" like CIG might need to. (But the experience in real world on no real upper-bounds may be one to look at when considering if it could actually become a problem in the game.)

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1752 on: August 03, 2018, 10:47:19 AM »
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benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1753 on: August 03, 2018, 11:05:24 AM »
From that thread:

Raist

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1754 on: August 03, 2018, 03:15:02 PM »





:thinking








:thinking
:thinking
:thinking

Joe Molotov

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1755 on: August 03, 2018, 03:22:50 PM »
Chris Roberts does not even exist, our company Cloud Imperium Games UK Limited does not have and never had any relationship with this person.
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1756 on: August 03, 2018, 04:01:55 PM »
From a recent email by the chairman, according to SA...



If that don't put the FUDsters at ease, I don't what will !
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1757 on: August 03, 2018, 04:18:33 PM »
Croberts is also on video for the weekly promo and if the goon watching is to be believed...

Quote
They're going to refactor the physics

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Internal Roadmap is different to Public Roadmap, accidentally confirmed

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Feature Creep 2018: "Citizens should not be able to fly ships or operate consoles in their Marine battle armor. We want players to get in their ship, get out of armor, then get in the pilot seat. We're adding lockers to all ships for this. In an emergency we want players to rush from the cockpit and get in their EVA suit."

:mindblown
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Raist

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1758 on: August 03, 2018, 04:20:53 PM »
Surely there will be some RNG factored in.

"Sorry, the zipper got stuck. You cannot pilot your ship and need the help of another Citizen."

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1759 on: August 03, 2018, 04:24:20 PM »
Oh god the letter.

Quote
This may be a foreign concept to gamers as the majority of games are about winning and losing, but Star Citizen isn’t a normal game. It’s a First Person Universe that allows you to live a virtual life in a compelling futuristic setting. You win by having fun, and fun is different things to different people.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/94cc9v/chris_roberts_just_adressesed_the_uec_p2w_matter/

It's not about winning, man !
:neogaf
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Raist

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1760 on: August 03, 2018, 04:27:04 PM »
So... everyone wins sort of deal?

Joe Molotov

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1761 on: August 03, 2018, 04:55:39 PM »
It's about mutual respect for each other, like in sports.
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1762 on: August 03, 2018, 06:39:37 PM »
Quote
Every time I spawn a particular ship in Port Olisar, I am unable to enjoy the game for what it is. I am constantly harassed simply because of a ship I have purchased to back the game. Numerous players come around my ship within minutes of me spawning it and make attempts to get inside it. They feel they are entitled. Through chat, they make demands that I open doors. I refuse. So then they start ramming my ship. Some have even made sexual and inappropriate remarks. Some refuse to leave after being asked to do so. I have been recording the incidents on video and in each case, reporting it to CIG. If I spawn something other than the ship that I am constantly harassed in, I have no problems in game. It is pretty much an everyday occurrence. What is the point of pledging for large and expensive ships if you have to deal with in-game harassment when you spawn the ship?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/harassment-in-game-what-is-cig-planning-on-doing-a/102946

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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1763 on: August 04, 2018, 12:56:05 PM »
Quote
I am not a teen anymore, and I cannot spend 12 hours a day playing games to unlock content. That's why I spend money to do make sure I stay competitive with those no life kids.

As the title says, I've dropped 20k on this game thus far, and will likely spend more in the future. For that investment, I expect to be at the top of the game. I should be ahead of people that only spent $40 or whatever.

I know hating on the millionaires and billionaires is the new cool trend nowadays, but this is getting ridiculous. It's infecting even gaming! I am not even a millionaire. I don't make millions per year, never mind billions. But I do expect to be adequately compensated for my investment into the game.

You kids can call that p2w or w/e, I don't care. I deserve what I paid for. And if I don't get it, then people like me, aka the whales, will withdraw our support. Heck, I might even sue to get a full refund. Not because I care about the money. It's just the principle of the matter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/94jrjp/as_a_citizen_since_the_original_kick_starter/
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1764 on: August 06, 2018, 09:50:45 AM »
A nice graph of the 2018 funding tracker can be found at the following link :

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4804#post486788557
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bluemax

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1765 on: August 08, 2018, 01:24:39 AM »
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4816#post486852366

"Toxicity? In the sewer that the NeoGAF mods dug when they couldn’t stand behind Malka’s shitbag behaviour safely anymore? Shocking."
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VomKriege

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VomKriege

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benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1768 on: August 10, 2018, 03:25:01 AM »
i love these dudes arguing over all the scary downfalls of what will happen when this becomes the biggest game in world history and has hundreds of millions of users :lol

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1769 on: August 10, 2018, 10:02:13 AM »
i love these dudes arguing over all the scary downfalls of what will happen when this becomes the biggest game in world history and has hundreds of millions of users :lol

I'm more amazed by the incredible flexibility of Citizens who pivoted from the years old often reaffirmed policy of "SC is NOT P2W" to "It's good that SC is P2W".
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Joe Molotov

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1770 on: August 10, 2018, 10:20:29 AM »
What is "winning" anyway? :trumps
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bluemax

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Raist

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1772 on: August 14, 2018, 03:42:01 PM »
Bouncy HUD :rofl

benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1773 on: August 15, 2018, 03:09:54 AM »
i think i see some minor object clipping and lighting issues, but i'm not a dev

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1774 on: August 15, 2018, 06:50:26 AM »
Some moves on the legal front, with court responding to the first round of motions / motions to dismiss. A round to amend each motions should now begin.
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1775 on: August 16, 2018, 07:21:34 AM »
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4860#post487073414

Quote
So. Uh. IDK if this is a honeypot to ban me for leaking PMs or something, but I just got this from what I am pretty sure is their automod thing, and it loving rules.



https://i.imgur.com/0SmUpMy.png
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VomKriege

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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1778 on: August 31, 2018, 05:48:21 AM »
So apparently CIG tried to paywall the livestream of their upcoming CitizenCon. After much outrage, CR came down from Space Olympus to explain it is his idea (and in fact they considered having no live stream at all). They've backtracked on monetizing the broadcast but are still selling the ticket with some minor perks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9brd6f/cr_addresses_citizencon_digital_ticket_concerns/
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1779 on: August 31, 2018, 05:55:45 AM »
Quote
No, rush CR and limit his budget and you get Wing Commander: the movie give him time and a massive budget you get Lord of War. Do you seriously think WC was a better movie?

Chris Roberts directed Lord of War ? Wow.
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benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1780 on: August 31, 2018, 06:21:01 AM »
lmao no, his company was one of the production companies
Quote
Production Companies
Entertainment Manufacturing Company (presents)
VIP 3 Medienfonds (as VIP Medienfonds 3)
Ascendant Pictures
Saturn Films
Rising Star (in association with)
Copag V (in association with)
Endgame Entertainment (in association with)
Majority Entertainment (in association with)
The people associated with Ascendant I highlighted:
Quote
Directed by
Andrew Niccol   
Writing Credits (WGA) 
Andrew Niccol   ...   (written by)

Produced by
Artemio Benki   ...   line producer: Czech Republic
Greig Buckle   ...   line producer: South Africa
Nicolas Cage   ...   producer
Bradley Cramp   ...   executive producer
Christopher Eberts   ...   executive producer
Fabrice Gianfermi   ...   executive producer
Darren Goldberg   ...   line producer: New York
Norman Golightly   ...   producer
Andreas Grosch   ...   producer (as Andy Grosch)
Gary Hamilton   ...   executive producer
Douglas Hansen   ...   co-producer (as Douglas E. Hansen)
Michael Mendelsohn   ...   executive producer
Andrew Niccol   ...   producer
Chris Roberts   ...   producer
Teri-Lin Robertson   ...   producer: Reeleyes Film Co., South Africa
Philippe Rousselet   ...   producer
Andreas Schmid   ...   executive producer
James D. Stern   ...   executive producer
Ronaldo Vasconcellos   ...   executive line producer
Jim Vidal   ...   associate producer: International (as James E. Vidal)

Ascendant was actually his second film production company, the first shutdown without ever making anything.

benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1781 on: August 31, 2018, 06:21:30 AM »
funny enough, Ascendant's legal counsel was the same Ortwin Freyermuth that CIG uses

I think this was mentioned before but you can confirm it on their still up website: http://www.ascendantpictures.com/team.html#of

benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1782 on: August 31, 2018, 06:28:06 AM »
In constant dollars, the budget of:
Wing Commander IV - $16.3 million
Wing Commander Film - $37.2 million
Lord of War - $47 million (according to the Ascendant website)

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1783 on: August 31, 2018, 09:12:44 AM »
Quote
lmao no, his company was one of the production companies

That's the joke.
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benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1784 on: August 31, 2018, 09:32:15 AM »
you expect me to believe that people in the Star Citizen community would launch unfounded and unwarranted attacks against the hard working developers?

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1785 on: August 31, 2018, 02:44:54 PM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9bpwgt/rebel_galaxy_is_having_fun_on_twitter/

:noooo

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9bq9zp/the_pledge_cigs_promise_to_treat_backers_with_the/

Quote
Oh god, you're actually very right about that.

I've referenced The Pledge many times over the years and it never dawned on me that CR never treated publishers well to begin with, lol.

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seagrams hotsauce

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1786 on: August 31, 2018, 03:14:11 PM »
"The scope of this year’s event, plus, the staffing and technical requirements of streaming two parallel stages, necessitates a ticket price."

what the fuck lmao
"we spent the tens of millions of dollars you dipshits threw at us. 20$ to see what kind of unimplemented bullshit you can pay for net year please"

Joe Molotov

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1787 on: September 01, 2018, 01:22:56 AM »
After people complained, now everyone gets free access to the CitizenCon streams (a $20 value). Since there's 7.5 Billion people on Earth, that means this will cost CIG $150 Billion, so you better start forking over for some new ships, freeloaders.
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bluemax

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1788 on: September 01, 2018, 02:34:17 AM »
funny enough, Ascendant's legal counsel was the same Ortwin Freyermuth that CIG uses

I think this was mentioned before but you can confirm it on their still up website: http://www.ascendantpictures.com/team.html#of

There's a reason Ortwin is on the board at CIG/RSI.
NO

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1789 on: September 13, 2018, 05:34:04 PM »
Not much new as far as I can tell, some fresh ship sales apparently because of course.

Hopefully that Reddit thread compiling all known planets in the SC universe (on paper) made me laugh :

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9fbq5w/arc_star_map_90_star_systems_92_habitable_planets/

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You added a subjectively variable. What is a 'reasonable amount of time'? I personally would count 12 total years of development as reasonable for the game they're making now (not necessarily their original plan), considering the ambition of the project. Let's not forget that they're trying to make the next EVE, not just breeding No Man's Sky and Call of Duty.

:snob

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Unlike coding, you really can just throw more people at this ... ONCE the code/toolsets are created.

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When Chris said "we created a company we want to work for, for the rest of their lives" I think he wasn't kidding.
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Raist

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1790 on: September 17, 2018, 06:21:48 AM »
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"we created a company we want to work for, for the rest of their lives"


Well yeah. When you can live the high life by just selling ships.jpgs, I'm sure you'd love to do that for the rest of your life as a dev.

benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1791 on: September 17, 2018, 06:34:18 AM »
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I personally would count 12 total years of development as reasonable for the game they're making now (not necessarily their original plan), considering the ambition of the project. Let's not forget that they're trying to make the next EVE
But EVE today wasn't the EVE that released 13 years ago.

From what I can tell EVE started pre-production and design around 1998 but didn't start formal development as actual software until 2000. And was released in 2003.

Star Citizen started development in 2011. Using CryEngine.

bluemax

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1792 on: September 18, 2018, 12:26:59 AM »
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I personally would count 12 total years of development as reasonable for the game they're making now (not necessarily their original plan), considering the ambition of the project. Let's not forget that they're trying to make the next EVE
But EVE today wasn't the EVE that released 13 years ago.

From what I can tell EVE started pre-production and design around 1998 but didn't start formal development as actual software until 2000. And was released in 2003.

Star Citizen started development in 2011. Using CryEngine.

That's the silly thing, they also like to compare it to current WoW, or Second Life. Neither of which got to where they are now at release. Also in WoW's case it was built by a company that had built technology and infrastructure and released things over the years.

I feel like it has been a long time since a company was started explicitly to make an MMO that didn't fail.

Also I feel like most MMOs are not made with off the shelf engines, for obvious reasons.
NO

benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1793 on: September 18, 2018, 01:17:13 AM »
Not to mention, a lot of what's made EVE into EVE has not been CCP's doing intentionally, it's been the community buying into the game/world/etc. and CCP responding to it. All those stories about corporate heists and battles and stuff that came out every couple of years, CCP put out the toolset for those, but the players turned it into something people not interested in the game paid attention to and read about. CIG effectively still hasn't even put that toolset out there, so they have no idea where players will actually be taking it. A lot of what you hear about Star Citizen are people griefing bugs or sitting in forums pontificating about theoretical ingame economies.

That was actually one of the things Derek Smart pointed out, how his criticism is tied to him seeing them making the same mistakes he made on Battlecrusier twenty five years ago where he got caught up in setting up everything possible for his simulated universe so kept delaying it endlessly rather than getting the core mechanics right and released to players and then adding features onto it. Which he later did and got himself out of the internet doghouse and even praise for later versions.


VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1795 on: September 24, 2018, 04:57:50 AM »
I'm sure you'll be shocked to learn that several important features of the upcoming 3.3 patch (including the self designated lynchpin du jour "Object Container Streaming" that will totally speed up development once implemented) have been delayed to a further 3.3.5 version.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9ieosc/huhexcuse_me_did_all_the_exciting_content_get/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9htkyv/330_to_360_progress_watch_update_20180921/

Flight model revision is also not coming next patch...

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Item 2.0 changed everything.

Thrusters, missiles, and counter measures have yet to be converted to Item 2.0

IFCS changes have been worked on, but there is no way to introduce tier 1 IFCS effectively without testing in planetary atmosphere and Thrusters 2.0.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9hx23h/comment/e6fpp8i

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Well I've got a thousand bucks just sitting in a bank account waiting for the Stanton system(Original patch 3.0) to be finished and then I'm buying a bunch of starter accounts to give away.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9ias8r/comment/e6j3y8k

:mindblown
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benjipwns

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1796 on: September 24, 2018, 05:53:10 AM »
I think he's just bragging that he's got $1000, knowing he won't have to pay out until the value of the dollar drops to nothing due to our excessive national debt.

VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1797 on: September 27, 2018, 08:09:51 AM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/croberts68/status/847950259879686144

 :money

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?goto=post&postid=488317057#post488317057

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A short effortpost/rant about why it doesn't matter what optimizations and fixes they make:

Very roughly speaking multiplayer games can be architected in one of two ways*:

1. Players run a client which presents state as given by a server, but which has no authority itself. Player actions are sent to the server to be incorporated into the global state, but the client only does simulation and state tracking for gameplay reasons (dead reckoning, lag compensation, rubberbanding, preloading resources, etc.). The server has a model of the world, but an attempt is to limit or eliminate any knowledge of the nitty-gritty of the client software (animations, models, etc.).

2. Players run a client which functions by synchronizing state directly with a server and/or other players. The networked state is encapsulated inside various entities and systems - and there is little to no decoupled world state which the client has to interpret and use to build a presentation. The presentation is the state.

An example to illustrate the difference:

Player B flies his spaceship into sensor distance of Player A.

1) The clients are given "abstract" data updates - there is enough information to determine what ship model to load and where to put it, but all data is essentially decoupled from the nitty-gritty of the engine. There is no "binding", because each client is just displaying data given to it. If you wanted to, you could essentially have different clients connected: like a decouple AI server agent, a webpage showing ship positions in some system, a statistics system building hotspot data for player activity, etc.

2) Players A and B are told to spawn a new network-bound entity to represent the other player. Whenever state of A and B changes in their client software, the property updates are sent to the server which forwards them to the other client. This has the advantage that no special protocols need to made, no special simulation needs to run on the server, and you can use a modified client as the server. You can go full peer-to-peer or you can have a server mediator to sanity check and prevent cheating. But you have a challenge in determining synchronization granularity and frequency. It's also much harder to have NPCs and non-trivial AI actors with this approach.

MMOs should never pick option 2. It doesn't matter if they implement fantastic Bind Culling, OCS, Serialized Variables, etc. The approach is anathema to an MMO with a persistent world, a high PC/NPC actor count and massive scale.

They're building the state synchronization into the completely wrong layers. And they're not the first or last to do this. Most game engines have a basic multiplayer game implementation with state synchronization because it's relatively easy to create, doesn't involve maintaining dedicated server software and is agnostic to the genre of the game.

You can build impressive prototypes (and some very specific types of games) with a state synchronization architecture - but if you're doing an MMO, you need to scrap that thing and build server software which is (at least in principle) engine agnostic. CIG never took this step.

If you're backing a crowdfunded MMO the #2 thing you need to look at to see if it's viable (#1 is the presence of known scam artists) - is whether they're building proper servers. It's much less important what engine they're using than whether they're able to build a custom server architecture - and are doing so early on.

To sum up: it doesn't matter how much they optimize the CryEngine network engine. It doesn't even help if they rip it out completely and rewrite it from scratch. The only way for them to deliver an MMO is to start making MMO servers. But that cannot be retrofitted into their current codebase, and would probably require throwing away the majority of it.
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Joe Molotov

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1798 on: September 27, 2018, 10:58:56 AM »
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VomKriege

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Re: STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE
« Reply #1799 on: September 30, 2018, 04:09:55 AM »
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7052362#post7052362

Some new filings in the Crytek v. CIG case. Court hearings are only scheduled 18 months from now however.
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