Author Topic: VOAT Containment Megathread of Trash People for Trash People  (Read 3656105 times)

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venereology

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22620 on: August 08, 2017, 09:40:53 AM »
Quote
I know the sane move is to not interact with him. I know nothing will come of it. But nevertheless I need to try. For more information this guy is very anti-muslim, pro-trump, anti-clinton. He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.
Quote
It might help to state that I am not willfully going to bring the subject up. But I know it will come up due to prior knowledge of the whole situation. I'm sorry if i am vague, but I have been asked not to tell any specifics
i what

at first i thought he was talking about like some famous dude coming to speak like i dunno Richard Spencer or something and he was going to that but apparently it's just some dude his friend knows is visiting the country and so they might meet up? and this gaffer checked out his facebook

"I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man. I've always accepted his way is wrong on a moral level. But I need evidence of facts as to why Trump is bad. "

this guy is bringing a wiffle ball bat to a game against the Yankees

Brehvolution

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22621 on: August 08, 2017, 10:48:27 AM »
Anyone who "turns" from a liberal to a cuck was never a liberal to begin with.
©ZH

Brehvolution

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22622 on: August 08, 2017, 11:00:20 AM »
I'm not talking down to anyone.  ???
©ZH

Brehvolution

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22623 on: August 08, 2017, 11:20:33 AM »
I have worthless opinions like everyone else.  :doge
©ZH

Mr. Nobody

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22624 on: August 08, 2017, 12:15:42 PM »
People, please!  :oreilly

stufte

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22625 on: August 08, 2017, 12:19:09 PM »
I'm liberal, but absolutely "alt-right" to the idiots on NeoGAF.

Let's Cyber

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22626 on: August 08, 2017, 12:32:13 PM »
I'm an alt-left commie nazi bernie-bro hipster RLM watching Nintendo Switch owner

 :kobeyuck

stufte

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22627 on: August 08, 2017, 12:35:30 PM »
I'm an alt-left commie nazi bernie-bro hipster RLM watching Nintendo Switch owner

 :kobeyuck

Switch owner?

 :donot

headwalk

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22628 on: August 08, 2017, 12:54:27 PM »
the worst trend for the left is the labelling. every argument that could be made has a catchphrase dismissal to go with (whataboutism, dog whistling), every person has a tag that you can demonise them with (alt right, nazi, bigot, straight white male) or stance on a singular issue that needs to be flagged up every time that person opens their mouth.

humans are wonky things that exist on analogues. for a progressive wing that can identify that there are a million different shades of sexuality and gender, they are awfully binary when it comes to morality or judge of character.

Boredfrom

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22629 on: August 08, 2017, 01:02:23 PM »
That Hellblade thread is truly a spectacular shit show. Permadeath spoilers are serious business, guys...

zomgee

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rub

stufte

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Rufus

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22632 on: August 08, 2017, 01:24:48 PM »
the worst trend for the left is the labelling. every argument that could be made has a catchphrase dismissal to go with (whataboutism, dog whistling), every person has a tag that you can demonise them with (alt right, nazi, bigot, straight white male) or stance on a singular issue that needs to be flagged up every time that person opens their mouth.
That's neither a trend (in the sense that it's new or occurs more frequently), nor unique to any one political leaning.[/pointless pedantism]
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 01:34:17 PM by Rufus »

Tasty

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22633 on: August 08, 2017, 01:28:21 PM »
the worst trend for the left is the labelling. every argument that could be made has a catchphrase dismissal to go with (whataboutism, dog whistling), every person has a tag that you can demonise them with (alt right, nazi, bigot, straight white male) or stance on a singular issue that needs to be flagged up every time that person opens their mouth.

humans are wonky things that exist on analogues. for a progressive wing that can identify that there are a million different shades of sexuality and gender, they are awfully binary when it comes to morality or judge of character.

I would say this is true for every ideology throughout all of human history.

It seems particularly bad for the American left right now, but we're viewing it through NeoGAF as a filter. Of course it'll seem worse.

Make no mistake, the right is just as adept at labels and name-calling.

zomgee

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22634 on: August 08, 2017, 01:46:44 PM »
shut up cuck snowflake
rub

stufte

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22635 on: August 08, 2017, 01:47:58 PM »

TVC15

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serge

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counterhit

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22639 on: August 08, 2017, 02:31:10 PM »
the worst trend for the left is the labelling. every argument that could be made has a catchphrase dismissal to go with (whataboutism, dog whistling), every person has a tag that you can demonise them with (alt right, nazi, bigot, straight white male) or stance on a singular issue that needs to be flagged up every time that person opens their mouth.

humans are wonky things that exist on analogues. for a progressive wing that can identify that there are a million different shades of sexuality and gender, they are awfully binary when it comes to morality or judge of character.

I used to think so, but now I think the most nefarious tactic is how vague and often repeated terms like "hurt" or "safety" are used. Directly related to this is accusing people are trying to enslave you or create a genocide, supported by playing a loose game of Six Degrees of Adolf Hilter with them (the former shows up more on tumblr, twitter, and campuses, but the latter is a GAF special). This strategy introduces a false sense of urgency and justifies really shitty behavior without a single implication of wrongdoing, because this person or book is making them "unsafe" or is "hurting" them. I find it quite unsettling seeing this in action, especially since it's almost always in the form of an angry mob. An explicit example of what I mean can be found in the Vulture article about a circle of authors playing judge, jury, and harasser for "hurtful" young adult novels on social media (unsurprisingly the dead about this died almost immediately and didn't break one page).

http://www.vulture.com/2017/08/the-toxic-drama-of-ya-twitter.html (recommended read)



It might be a bit of a stretch, but I think it is probably related to how many people in the google memo thread seem to think it was about calling women (and black people, even though race is not discussed at all) inferior and unintelligent when that's clearly not the case at all if you read it. It's so obvious most of the people in the that thread 1) did not read the memo 2) have not read much in the way of psychology or cognitive science regarding gender (or even know what "average" means). For whatever faults, you have to purposefully read it incorrectly to assume it was attack on human rights. All that was needed was for one to convince themselves or see someone else convince themselves they had a witch, so they could celebrate when they burned it.

Uncritical narrative building + mob mentality, and, to loop it back around, it goes from Salem to Orwell when words like "safety" are used to imply you have to defend yourself by any means necessary - against opinions.

Himu

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22640 on: August 08, 2017, 02:41:49 PM »
GAF is the reason why normal, liberal people snap and turn alt-right and start calling everyone fakkits and cucks

As a socialist...  :snob

I don't think this is the case. It does, however, make me reconsider conservative opinions. We saw where party lines got us last year: nowhere. I'm not conservative by a damn sight but neogaf definitely taught me the virtue in trying to understand what people who you disagree with are trying to say. Pretty easy to do that when you foster an environment where anyone with a dissenting opinion is cast aside.
IYKYK

Joe Molotov

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22641 on: August 08, 2017, 02:59:18 PM »
the worst trend for the left is the labelling. every argument that could be made has a catchphrase dismissal to go with (whataboutism, dog whistling), every person has a tag that you can demonise them with (alt right, nazi, bigot, straight white male) or stance on a singular issue that needs to be flagged up every time that person opens their mouth.

humans are wonky things that exist on analogues. for a progressive wing that can identify that there are a million different shades of sexuality and gender, they are awfully binary when it comes to morality or judge of character.

I used to think so, but now I think the most nefarious tactic is how vague and often repeated terms like "hurt" or "safety" are used. Directly related to this is accusing people are trying to enslave you or create a genocide, supported by playing a loose game of Six Degrees of Adolf Hilter with them (the former shows up more on tumblr, twitter, and campuses, but the latter is a GAF special). This strategy introduces a false sense of urgency and justifies really shitty behavior without a single implication of wrongdoing, because this person or book is making them "unsafe" or is "hurting" them. I find it quite unsettling seeing this in action, especially since it's almost always in the form of an angry mob. An explicit example of what I mean can be found in the Vulture article about a circle of authors playing judge, jury, and harasser for "hurtful" young adult novels on social media (unsurprisingly the dead about this died almost immediately and didn't break one page).

http://www.vulture.com/2017/08/the-toxic-drama-of-ya-twitter.html (recommended read)

(Image removed from quote.)

It might be a bit of a stretch, but I think it is probably related to how many people in the google memo thread seem to think it was about calling women (and black people, even though race is not discussed at all) inferior and unintelligent when that's clearly not the case at all if you read it. It's so obvious most of the people in the that thread 1) did not read the memo 2) have not read much in the way of psychology or cognitive science regarding gender (or even know what "average" means). For whatever faults, you have to purposefully read it incorrectly to assume it was attack on human rights. All that was needed was for one to convince themselves or see someone else convince themselves they had a witch, so they could celebrate when they burned it.

Uncritical narrative building + mob mentality, and, to loop it back around, it goes from Salem to Orwell when words like "safety" are used to imply you have to defend yourself by any means necessary - against opinions.

Quote
The Black Witch centers on a girl named Elloren who has been raised in a stratified society where other races (including selkies, fae, wolfmen, etc.) are considered inferior at best and enemies at worst. But when she goes off to college, she begins to question her beliefs, an ideological transformation she’s still working on when she joins with the rebellion in the last of the novel’s 600 pages.

:cac

Be an adult and have strong opinions on YA novels, brehs. Both sides of this argument need to realize that they're trash human beings for even knowing this stuff exists.
©@©™

Himu

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22642 on: August 08, 2017, 03:04:38 PM »
Party lines are why we have Trump. On his face he shouldn't have gotten 25% of the vote. He got 46% because of the R. We have asymmetrical party lines too. Arguably if that line had been firmer on the left, we wouldn't have Trump.

If you're talking about the SSW party line, that's a different story.

Nope. Calling people deplorables or cucks has only divided our nation further. People can't talk anymore. All they do is insult; even our leaders. Trump won because Clinton was a terrible candidate and decided to coast on campaigning. Even after Trump won people decided that it was only because America was racist (which it is). Party lines is what has divided our nation more than anything that isn't class or race.

Liberals don't want to debate with people like Milo because "they can't be debated" resulting in Milo having free reign, and when someone does try to debate him they aren't used to debate and he shuts them down. Essentially the safe space crap has lead to a generation who can't argue with those they oppose because of party and ideology.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 03:09:43 PM by Queen of Ice »
IYKYK

etiolate

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22643 on: August 08, 2017, 03:10:36 PM »
the worst trend for the left is the labelling. every argument that could be made has a catchphrase dismissal to go with (whataboutism, dog whistling), every person has a tag that you can demonise them with (alt right, nazi, bigot, straight white male) or stance on a singular issue that needs to be flagged up every time that person opens their mouth.

humans are wonky things that exist on analogues. for a progressive wing that can identify that there are a million different shades of sexuality and gender, they are awfully binary when it comes to morality or judge of character.

I would say they are very binary when it comes to thought and ideas, and then moralize those ideas. So contradicting viewpoints and information is evil, crazy, and wrong. This is how the left walked right into science denying after accusing the right of such for years.

I would say that the difference between what the left is doing now and the way it's been done in the past exists in the stranglehold the left has on mainstream media outlets and academics. They currently hold the ability to indoctrinate people into these faults in a way that is dangerous.

Also, if anyone thinks this is just a GAF thing then you're naive. The Google Memo story displays how widepsread this is right now. A researched, cited and calmly argued point on how to improve diversity gets called a tirade, screed and rant in the press, gets stripped of its citations and graphs when publised by the press, and called anti-diversity. Guy gets named in public and fired. And the crux of his argument was having space to discuss other ideas and views without fear of being fired.

Boredfrom

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22644 on: August 08, 2017, 03:36:40 PM »
A researched, cited and calmly argued point on how to improve diversity gets called a tirade, screed and rant in the press, gets stripped of its citations and graphs when publised by the press, and called anti-diversity. Guy gets named in public and fired. And the crux of his argument was having space to discuss other ideas and views without fear of being fired.


Eh, I agree with you overall point but that memo was not exactly a good example:

Quote
“I’m simply stating,” Damore wrote, “that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.”

The guy should had not been fired but I will not say he was particularly as complicated or well researched as you think. The fact that is calls it a "conservative ideology" kind of dismiss the objective aspect that is propposed.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 03:46:46 PM by Boredfrom »

Brehvolution

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©ZH

etiolate

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22646 on: August 08, 2017, 03:51:40 PM »
A researched, cited and calmly argued point on how to improve diversity gets called a tirade, screed and rant in the press, gets stripped of its citations and graphs when publised by the press, and called anti-diversity. Guy gets named in public and fired. And the crux of his argument was having space to discuss other ideas and views without fear of being fired.


Eh, I agree with you overall point but that memo was not exactly a good example:

Quote
“I’m simply stating,” Damore wrote, “that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.”

The guy should had not been fired but I will not say he was particularly as complicated or well researched as you think. The fact that is calls it a "conservative ideology" kind of dismiss the objective aspect that is propposed.

I think the guy's mistakes in the memo are some phrasings and lazily citing wikipedia rather the direct sources wikipedia is based upon. I am not sure what your point is with what you quoted.

Here is the full bit:

Quote
Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from all women in the following ways or that these
differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men
and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why
we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences
are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything
about an individual given these population level distributions

Nothing shocking about that statement.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22647 on: August 08, 2017, 04:03:35 PM »
A researched, cited and calmly argued point on how to improve diversity gets called a tirade, screed and rant in the press, gets stripped of its citations and graphs when publised by the press, and called anti-diversity. Guy gets named in public and fired. And the crux of his argument was having space to discuss other ideas and views without fear of being fired.


Eh, I agree with you overall point but that memo was not exactly a good example:

Quote
“I’m simply stating,” Damore wrote, “that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.”

The guy should had not been fired but I will not say he was particularly as complicated or well researched as you think. The fact that is calls it a "conservative ideology" kind of dismiss the objective aspect that is propposed.

I think the guy's mistakes in the memo are some phrasings and lazily citing wikipedia rather the direct sources wikipedia is based upon. I am not sure what your point is with what you quoted.

Here is the full bit:

Quote
Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from all women in the following ways or that these
differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men
and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why
we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences
are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything
about an individual given these population level distributions

Nothing shocking about that statement.

Many of this differences are not necessary tied to biological differences. If that was the case he is contradicting himself:

Quote
Feminism has made great progress in freeing women from the female gender role, but men are still very much tied to the male gender role. If we, as a society, allow men to be more “feminine,” then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally feminine roles.

studyguy

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22648 on: August 08, 2017, 04:46:19 PM »
My interest is best summed up by the fact that the dude looks like one of those "WELL AKSHULY" types of nerds.
pause

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22649 on: August 08, 2017, 05:03:19 PM »
The Cenk Shapiro debate from Policon was pretty interesting. Wish debates like that were encouraged more. Just seems like SSWs are afraid of having some of their opinions challenged.

And they have no reason to believe in them if they can't back up why they feel that way.
IYKYK

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22650 on: August 08, 2017, 05:39:12 PM »
A researched, cited and calmly argued point on how to improve diversity gets called a tirade, screed and rant in the press, gets stripped of its citations and graphs when publised by the press, and called anti-diversity. Guy gets named in public and fired. And the crux of his argument was having space to discuss other ideas and views without fear of being fired.


Eh, I agree with you overall point but that memo was not exactly a good example:

Quote
“I’m simply stating,” Damore wrote, “that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.”

The guy should had not been fired but I will not say he was particularly as complicated or well researched as you think. The fact that is calls it a "conservative ideology" kind of dismiss the objective aspect that is propposed.

I think the guy's mistakes in the memo are some phrasings and lazily citing wikipedia rather the direct sources wikipedia is based upon. I am not sure what your point is with what you quoted.

Here is the full bit:

Quote
Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from all women in the following ways or that these
differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men
and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why
we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences
are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything
about an individual given these population level distributions

Nothing shocking about that statement.

Many of this differences are not necessary tied to biological differences. If that was the case he is contradicting himself:

Quote
Feminism has made great progress in freeing women from the female gender role, but men are still very much tied to the male gender role. If we, as a society, allow men to be more “feminine,” then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally feminine roles.

I don't think he's arguing pure biological basis for differences if that's what you imply. The field he's basing this on views traits as influenced biologically and environmentally, but that there is significant biological trends. (And variations withing the group.)

He puts this forth because the current system Google uses ignores this information and uses discrimination as an explain-all.

Considering what he put forth and the reaction, I'd say its a good example of the leftist mentality in question.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22651 on: August 08, 2017, 05:56:22 PM »
Can you dorks take this to another thread?
🍆🍆

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22652 on: August 08, 2017, 06:05:54 PM »
The Cenk Shapiro debate from Policon was pretty interesting. Wish debates like that were encouraged more. Just seems like SSWs are afraid of having some of their opinions challenged.

Quote from: Stumpokapow
two morons with nothing to say ranting at each other for an audience of angry college kids.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22653 on: August 08, 2017, 06:11:36 PM »
A researched, cited and calmly argued point on how to improve diversity gets called a tirade, screed and rant in the press, gets stripped of its citations and graphs when publised by the press, and called anti-diversity. Guy gets named in public and fired. And the crux of his argument was having space to discuss other ideas and views without fear of being fired.


Eh, I agree with you overall point but that memo was not exactly a good example:

Quote
“I’m simply stating,” Damore wrote, “that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.”

The guy should had not been fired but I will not say he was particularly as complicated or well researched as you think. The fact that is calls it a "conservative ideology" kind of dismiss the objective aspect that is propposed.

I think the guy's mistakes in the memo are some phrasings and lazily citing wikipedia rather the direct sources wikipedia is based upon. I am not sure what your point is with what you quoted.

Here is the full bit:

Quote
Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from all women in the following ways or that these
differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men
and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why
we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences
are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything
about an individual given these population level distributions

Nothing shocking about that statement.

Many of this differences are not necessary tied to biological differences. If that was the case he is contradicting himself:

Quote
Feminism has made great progress in freeing women from the female gender role, but men are still very much tied to the male gender role. If we, as a society, allow men to be more “feminine,” then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally feminine roles.

I don't think he's arguing pure biological basis for differences if that's what you imply. The field he's basing this on views traits as influenced biologically and environmentally, but that there is significant biological trends. (And variations withing the group.)

He puts this forth because the current system Google uses ignores this information and uses discrimination as an explain-all.

Considering what he put forth and the reaction, I'd say its a good example of the leftist mentality in question.

The thing is that information is already misused by him when the variables have been explained to not be biological and being marginal  differences at best. This stuff is Victorian levels of thinking.

I will tell you that it has less to do with leftism and more with contradictory and confusing ideological diversity and objectivism with "I want to express my outdated and misinformed ideas in the work place without being called out".

Etiolate, I will say you this as I actually think you are no half bad and I share some of your own frustrations with political and academic discourse: Don't confuse ideology diatribes with objective or academic thinking. This was not. You are doing a disservice to yourself.


Joe Molotov

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22654 on: August 08, 2017, 06:19:33 PM »
The Cenk Shapiro debate from Policon was pretty interesting. Wish debates like that were encouraged more. Just seems like SSWs are afraid of having some of their opinions challenged.

Quote from: Stumpokapow
two morons with nothing to say ranting at each other for an audience of angry college kids.

Robby Boberts and Cheebs were there?
©@©™

Jenkem

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22655 on: August 08, 2017, 06:28:26 PM »
DQ5 > DQ7 > DQ4 > DQ9 > DQ8 > DQ3 > DQ6 > DQ2 > DQ1

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22656 on: August 08, 2017, 06:34:18 PM »
A researched, cited and calmly argued point on how to improve diversity gets called a tirade, screed and rant in the press, gets stripped of its citations and graphs when publised by the press, and called anti-diversity. Guy gets named in public and fired. And the crux of his argument was having space to discuss other ideas and views without fear of being fired.


Eh, I agree with you overall point but that memo was not exactly a good example:

Quote
“I’m simply stating,” Damore wrote, “that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.”

The guy should had not been fired but I will not say he was particularly as complicated or well researched as you think. The fact that is calls it a "conservative ideology" kind of dismiss the objective aspect that is propposed.

I think the guy's mistakes in the memo are some phrasings and lazily citing wikipedia rather the direct sources wikipedia is based upon. I am not sure what your point is with what you quoted.

Here is the full bit:

Quote
Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from all women in the following ways or that these
differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men
and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why
we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences
are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything
about an individual given these population level distributions

Nothing shocking about that statement.

Many of this differences are not necessary tied to biological differences. If that was the case he is contradicting himself:

Quote
Feminism has made great progress in freeing women from the female gender role, but men are still very much tied to the male gender role. If we, as a society, allow men to be more “feminine,” then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally feminine roles.

I don't think he's arguing pure biological basis for differences if that's what you imply. The field he's basing this on views traits as influenced biologically and environmentally, but that there is significant biological trends. (And variations withing the group.)

He puts this forth because the current system Google uses ignores this information and uses discrimination as an explain-all.

Considering what he put forth and the reaction, I'd say its a good example of the leftist mentality in question.

The thing is that information is already misused by him when the variables have been explained to not be biological and being marginal  differences at best. This stuff is Victorian levels of thinking.

I will tell you that it has less to do with leftism and more with contradictory and confusing ideological diversity and objectivism with "I want to express my outdated and misinformed ideas in the work place without being called out".

Etiolate, I will say you this as I actually think you are no half bad and I share some of your own frustrations with political and academic discourse: Don't confuse ideology diatribes with objective or academic thinking. This was not. You are doing a disservice to yourself.

You are very mistaken upon this. This is relatively new views on gender brought about by multiple studies. Victorian it is not. It does challenge the current social constructionist view, but that doesn't make it an ancient view. It's based on studies across multiple cultures with similar results.

Perhaps its your view that is outdated? Because I used to have a different view, but my view changed when I saw new information.




Boredfrom

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22657 on: August 08, 2017, 06:42:11 PM »
Sources?

Raist

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Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22658 on: August 08, 2017, 06:48:19 PM »
Rorry Rorerrr

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22659 on: August 08, 2017, 06:49:18 PM »
I just wanted to see the reactions of the Upcoming Plinkett review or the Hellblade flame war.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22660 on: August 08, 2017, 06:58:11 PM »
Sources?

http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165918.pdf

Gender differences in Big 5 personality traits across 55 cultures.

A meta-analsys of previous meta studies, including the above one:

Quote
How big are gender differences in personality and interests, and how stable are these differences
across cultures and over time? To answer these questions, I summarize data from two meta-analyses
and three cross-cultural studies on gender differences in personality and interests. Results show
that gender differences in Big Five personality traits are ‘small’ to ‘moderate,’ with the largest differences
occurring for agreeableness and neuroticism (respective ds = 0.40 and 0.34; women
higher than men). In contrast, gender differences on the people–things dimension of interests are
‘very large’ (d = 1.18), with women more people-oriented and less thing-oriented than men.
Gender differences in personality tend to be larger in gender-egalitarian societies than in genderinegalitarian
societies, a finding that contradicts social role theory but is consistent with evolutionary,
attributional, and social comparison theories. In contrast, gender differences in interests appear
to be consistent across cultures and over time, a finding that suggests possible biologic influences.

http://sci-hub.cc/10.1111/j.1751-9004.2010.00320.x


Gender differences larger than previously thought: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/games-primates-play/201201/gender-differences-in-personality-are-larger-previously-thought

Quote
From an evolutionary perspective, large differences in personality between the sexes make perfect sense. Divergent sexual selection pressures on men and women are expected to produce substantial differences in personality traits that influence mating and reproductive strategies. For example, sexual promiscuity is predicted by extraversion, openness to experience, neuroticism (especially in women), positive schizotypy, and the ''dark triad'' traits (i.e., narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism). Negative predictors of promiscuity and short- term mating include agreeableness, conscientiousness, honesty, and autistic-like traits. Relationship instability is associated with extraversion, neuroticism, low agreeableness, and low conscientiousness. In addition to their direct influences on predispositions for sexual promiscuity and relationship instability or sexual monogamy and parental investment, personality traits may also influence competitive tendencies such as status-seeking and risk-taking.

Del Giudice and colleagues conclude that from an evolutionary perspective personality traits are clearly not neutral with respect to sexual selection. "Instead, there are grounds to expect robust and wide-ranging sex differences in this area, resulting in strongly sexually differentiated patterns of emotion, thought, and behavior - as if there were two human natures."

The Genetics of Sex Differences in Brain and Behavior
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3030621/

I can dig up more if you want, but I'll put it to you this way: to deny biological causes for gender differences in behavior and personality is to deny transgenderism as valid since you've just yanked out the strongest argument for their claim.

PS: Everyone else can eat it. You can still have your discussion while we have our discussion.


agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22662 on: August 08, 2017, 07:02:02 PM »
The Cenk Shapiro debate from Policon was pretty interesting. Wish debates like that were encouraged more. Just seems like SSWs are afraid of having some of their opinions challenged.

Quote from: Stumpokapow
two morons with nothing to say ranting at each other for an audience of angry college kids.

Robby Boberts and Cheebs were there?

You called?

Quote from: Cheebo
The world would be better if both died in a fire.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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🍆🍆

Olivia Wilde Homo

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🍆🍆

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22665 on: August 08, 2017, 07:09:35 PM »
The Cenk Shapiro debate from Policon was pretty interesting. Wish debates like that were encouraged more. Just seems like SSWs are afraid of having some of their opinions challenged.

Quote from: Stumpokapow
two morons with nothing to say ranting at each other for an audience of angry college kids.

Robby Boberts and Cheebs were there?
I can't speak for Robby Boberts' educational background (or anyone with two first names), but Cheebs isn't a moron: he has a master's degree.
010

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22666 on: August 08, 2017, 07:17:52 PM »
Sources?

http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/165918.pdf

Gender differences in Big 5 personality traits across 55 cultures.

A meta-analsys of previous meta studies, including the above one:

Quote
How big are gender differences in personality and interests, and how stable are these differences
across cultures and over time? To answer these questions, I summarize data from two meta-analyses
and three cross-cultural studies on gender differences in personality and interests. Results show
that gender differences in Big Five personality traits are ‘small’ to ‘moderate,’ with the largest differences
occurring for agreeableness and neuroticism (respective ds = 0.40 and 0.34; women
higher than men). In contrast, gender differences on the people–things dimension of interests are
‘very large’ (d = 1.18), with women more people-oriented and less thing-oriented than men.
Gender differences in personality tend to be larger in gender-egalitarian societies than in genderinegalitarian
societies, a finding that contradicts social role theory but is consistent with evolutionary,
attributional, and social comparison theories. In contrast, gender differences in interests appear
to be consistent across cultures and over time, a finding that suggests possible biologic influences.

http://sci-hub.cc/10.1111/j.1751-9004.2010.00320.x


Gender differences larger than previously thought: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/games-primates-play/201201/gender-differences-in-personality-are-larger-previously-thought

Quote
From an evolutionary perspective, large differences in personality between the sexes make perfect sense. Divergent sexual selection pressures on men and women are expected to produce substantial differences in personality traits that influence mating and reproductive strategies. For example, sexual promiscuity is predicted by extraversion, openness to experience, neuroticism (especially in women), positive schizotypy, and the ''dark triad'' traits (i.e., narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism). Negative predictors of promiscuity and short- term mating include agreeableness, conscientiousness, honesty, and autistic-like traits. Relationship instability is associated with extraversion, neuroticism, low agreeableness, and low conscientiousness. In addition to their direct influences on predispositions for sexual promiscuity and relationship instability or sexual monogamy and parental investment, personality traits may also influence competitive tendencies such as status-seeking and risk-taking.

Del Giudice and colleagues conclude that from an evolutionary perspective personality traits are clearly not neutral with respect to sexual selection. "Instead, there are grounds to expect robust and wide-ranging sex differences in this area, resulting in strongly sexually differentiated patterns of emotion, thought, and behavior - as if there were two human natures."

The Genetics of Sex Differences in Brain and Behavior
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3030621/

I can dig up more if you want, but I'll put it to you this way: to deny biological causes for gender differences in behavior and personality is to deny transgenderism as valid since you've just yanked out the strongest argument for their claim.

PS: Everyone else can eat it. You can still have your discussion while we have our discussion.

This is interesting, but you should pay attention something that the author study said-

Quote
These points aside, we hope that readers will not miss the major point of our paper, which is eloquently discussed by Lippa in his comment. Our argument is not about how many large or small sex differences there are, it is rather about the methodology for measuring them as accurately as possible. It is also worth stressing that we do not wish to replace univariate effect sizes with their multivariate counterparts; they answer different kinds of questions, and indeed, in our analysis we reported and discussed sex differences on individual factors before turning to multivariate effects. Exactly what the most appropriate methods to measure sex differences are is an important topic of scientific debate. The main goal of our article was to add to this debate. We encourage other researchers to replicate our study with different samples and measures, and of course we look forward to future refinements and extensions of our methodological proposal.

The comment that mentioned this

Quote
It is ironic that while the “gender similarities hypothesis” has gained currency among some psychologists, many biological and medical researchers appear to be moving in the opposite direction, increasingly emphasizing the importance of sex differences in various physiological and disease processes [6]. Would biological and medical researchers entertain the Hydean proposition that “males and females are similar on most, but not all, biological variables”? On some level, this assertion seems to be true but, as Del Giudice, Booth, and Irwing note, its truth value depends critically on the specific domain of sex differences under study and on the metric of similarity and difference that researchers use. In practical terms, Hyde’s vague “gender similarities hypothesis” will probably provide cold comfort to men and women seeking sound and specific medical advice concerning their heart disease, autoimmune disorders, or medication levels. In biology and medicine, as in psychology, I believe it will prove useful to take a multivariate approach to sex-linked traits in various domains, to acknowledge that some sex differences are small while others are large, and to keep one’s eye on the criteria that need to be predicted rather than on broad ideological statements.

They are far from gospels or ideological treaties and more about questioning old methodology.

zomgee

  • We've *all*
  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22667 on: August 08, 2017, 07:25:09 PM »
Please nuke
rub

Raist

  • Winner of the Baited Award 2018
  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22668 on: August 08, 2017, 07:33:53 PM »
I just wanted to see the reactions of the Upcoming Plinkett review or the Hellblade flame war.

What Hellblade flamewar?

I mean the game is by Ninja Theory and is the spiritual successor to Heavenly Sword, so you'd think people would have accepted it would be trash from the get go.

Well apparently it's decent and is getting good reviews. Apart from Jim Sterling, because he happened to run into a rare game breaking glitch and decided to give the game 1/10 because omg wow such edge

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22669 on: August 08, 2017, 07:38:59 PM »
I just wanted to see the reactions of the Upcoming Plinkett review or the Hellblade flame war.

What Hellblade flamewar?

I mean the game is by Ninja Theory and is the spiritual successor to Heavenly Sword, so you'd think people would have accepted it would be trash from the get go.

There was a thread about people wanting TB head because he said that the Permadeath element is a bluff. People saying that is also a spoiler and ruins the magic of the game. Last time I checked it seems that it just that the permadeath could be glitched than being a bluff.

Jansen

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22670 on: August 08, 2017, 07:39:19 PM »













Let's Cyber

  • Banned (duration pending)
  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22671 on: August 08, 2017, 07:50:53 PM »
Agreed. Joe had better have a doctorate if he's going to talk this kind of trash.
Is this an inside joke? Let me in on the funny pls.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22672 on: August 08, 2017, 08:10:17 PM »
Etiolate, thoughts on this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/the-astonishing-village-where-little-girls-turn-into-boys-aged-1/

Not many thoughts as they found the cause.

I can only add that I've heard personal stories of men whose testicles did not drop during childhood or puberty and a doctor had to pull them out from the body with a rubber band.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22673 on: August 08, 2017, 08:19:47 PM »
Quote

This is interesting, but you should pay attention something that the author study said-

Quote
These points aside, we hope that readers will not miss the major point of our paper, which is eloquently discussed by Lippa in his comment. Our argument is not about how many large or small sex differences there are, it is rather about the methodology for measuring them as accurately as possible. It is also worth stressing that we do not wish to replace univariate effect sizes with their multivariate counterparts; they answer different kinds of questions, and indeed, in our analysis we reported and discussed sex differences on individual factors before turning to multivariate effects. Exactly what the most appropriate methods to measure sex differences are is an important topic of scientific debate. The main goal of our article was to add to this debate. We encourage other researchers to replicate our study with different samples and measures, and of course we look forward to future refinements and extensions of our methodological proposal.

The comment that mentioned this

Quote
It is ironic that while the “gender similarities hypothesis” has gained currency among some psychologists, many biological and medical researchers appear to be moving in the opposite direction, increasingly emphasizing the importance of sex differences in various physiological and disease processes [6]. Would biological and medical researchers entertain the Hydean proposition that “males and females are similar on most, but not all, biological variables”? On some level, this assertion seems to be true but, as Del Giudice, Booth, and Irwing note, its truth value depends critically on the specific domain of sex differences under study and on the metric of similarity and difference that researchers use. In practical terms, Hyde’s vague “gender similarities hypothesis” will probably provide cold comfort to men and women seeking sound and specific medical advice concerning their heart disease, autoimmune disorders, or medication levels. In biology and medicine, as in psychology, I believe it will prove useful to take a multivariate approach to sex-linked traits in various domains, to acknowledge that some sex differences are small while others are large, and to keep one’s eye on the criteria that need to be predicted rather than on broad ideological statements.

They are far from gospels or ideological treaties and more about questioning old methodology.

I assume that's the Italian study? That one does try different methodologies to try to get a better look at the subject. I included it for the purpose of it using different approaches.

I kind of find the gender difference vs gender similarity argument not a big deal. Overlap would suggest similarities, but the importance are differences when it comes to understanding medical treatment and social outcomes. So that's an argument over how many differences there are either way. I guess going in with an assumption on the amount is not necessary to me.

The other papers are about differences and relate to biology. One of the strongest arguments for biology is that differences appear more strongly in heavily socially constructed egalitarian societies such as Sweden where the government has spent time and money reducing social influence and yet personality traits show up much stronger in these regions. The argument is that when you remove environment influence then biological traits completely take over.

There is also a study concerning young children, say two years old and studying their eye movements when presented with toys and objects we recognize as gendered. I am not sure if that study is online but I can probably find a psychologist talking about it.

Let's Cyber

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  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22674 on: August 08, 2017, 08:22:38 PM »
Everyone ignore all the stupid trash above this post.

The Super Bowl of NeoGAF is here!  Plinkett Ghostbuster 2016 review thread!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1417406

 :rejoice :rejoice :rejoice

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22675 on: August 08, 2017, 08:26:13 PM »
Quote

This is interesting, but you should pay attention something that the author study said-

Quote
These points aside, we hope that readers will not miss the major point of our paper, which is eloquently discussed by Lippa in his comment. Our argument is not about how many large or small sex differences there are, it is rather about the methodology for measuring them as accurately as possible. It is also worth stressing that we do not wish to replace univariate effect sizes with their multivariate counterparts; they answer different kinds of questions, and indeed, in our analysis we reported and discussed sex differences on individual factors before turning to multivariate effects. Exactly what the most appropriate methods to measure sex differences are is an important topic of scientific debate. The main goal of our article was to add to this debate. We encourage other researchers to replicate our study with different samples and measures, and of course we look forward to future refinements and extensions of our methodological proposal.

The comment that mentioned this

Quote
It is ironic that while the “gender similarities hypothesis” has gained currency among some psychologists, many biological and medical researchers appear to be moving in the opposite direction, increasingly emphasizing the importance of sex differences in various physiological and disease processes [6]. Would biological and medical researchers entertain the Hydean proposition that “males and females are similar on most, but not all, biological variables”? On some level, this assertion seems to be true but, as Del Giudice, Booth, and Irwing note, its truth value depends critically on the specific domain of sex differences under study and on the metric of similarity and difference that researchers use. In practical terms, Hyde’s vague “gender similarities hypothesis” will probably provide cold comfort to men and women seeking sound and specific medical advice concerning their heart disease, autoimmune disorders, or medication levels. In biology and medicine, as in psychology, I believe it will prove useful to take a multivariate approach to sex-linked traits in various domains, to acknowledge that some sex differences are small while others are large, and to keep one’s eye on the criteria that need to be predicted rather than on broad ideological statements.

They are far from gospels or ideological treaties and more about questioning old methodology.

I assume that's the Italian study? That one does try different methodologies to try to get a better look at the subject. I included it for the purpose of it using different approaches.

I kind of find the gender difference vs gender similarity argument not a big deal. Overlap would suggest similarities, but the importance are differences when it comes to understanding medical treatment and social outcomes. So that's an argument over how many differences there are either way. I guess going in with an assumption on the amount is not necessary to me.

The other papers are about differences and relate to biology. One of the strongest arguments for biology is that differences appear more strongly in heavily socially constructed egalitarian societies such as Sweden where the government has spent time and money reducing social influence and yet personality traits show up much stronger in these regions. The argument is that when you remove environment influence then biological traits completely take over.

There is also a study concerning young children, say two years old and studying their eye movements when presented with toys and objects we recognize as gendered. I am not sure if that study is online but I can probably find a psychologist talking about it.

I will not derail the thread anymore (as I want to read reactions to the Plinkett review) but you actually do a better job explaining this points that the dude in google did. See the difference? You dont need to support ideological charged rethoric to discuss this stuff in a decent way. Is not necessary to be confrontional or play the victim game like current politic discourse. This post was way honest than that memo from the google employee.

samfish

  • Cereal mispeller
  • Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22676 on: August 08, 2017, 09:08:47 PM »
If you guys don't stop, I'm going to write a long, detailed post about giving Bobby Roberts a slow and spectacular  blowjob.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22677 on: August 08, 2017, 09:13:15 PM »
So should I watch the Plinkett video first, or pull a Bobby Roberts and go straight to the reaction thread?

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22678 on: August 08, 2017, 09:13:59 PM »
The RLM review was pretty good, I love how he didnt need dwell about sexism or quotas and just trashed the film by its own (lack of) merits.

TVC15

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  • Senior Member
Re: 🚨 Other Forum Megathread of...WTF OPPO DROPPO?! 🚨
« Reply #22679 on: August 08, 2017, 09:17:00 PM »
If you guys don't stop, I'm going to write a long, detailed post about giving Bobby Roberts a slow and spectacular  blowjob.

I'll still jerk off to it. I'll just find and replace Bobby's name. Probably replace it with Phoenix Dark so all the lines like "his glistening, ebony skin skin contrasted with his prodiguous, bestial ejaculate" still make sense.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 09:22:37 PM by TVC 15 »
serge